Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • S Spencer - 9 months ago
    The gospel is good news!

    The gospel is not good advice.

    However, the gospel is much more than good news!!

    The gospel is "the power of God UNTO salvation".

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16.

    The gospel is power!

    Good advice is not worth the snap of the fingers unless there is power to see it through.

    There is three steps to our Salvation.

    Justification.

    Sanctification.

    Glorification

    Justification is "an act of God whereby He pronounces a sinner to be righteous because of that sinner's faith in Christ." We are justified, or declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation.

    Sanctification is "the process by which Christians are set apart for God from the rest of the world, or the process by which Christians are made holy." Progressive, or experiential, sanctification, as it is sometimes called, is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one's life. It is the same as growing in the Lord ( 2 Peter 3:18) or spiritual maturity.

    Glorification is "God's final removal of sin from the life of the saints so that they stand faultless before Him in glory in eternity"

    As Christians, we were justified when we confessed Christ and believed ( Romans 10:9), we are sanctified as we grow in holiness through the work of the Spirit.

    Ephesians 4:11-32; Galatians 5:16-24, and we will someday be glorified when we are resurrected into eternal life ( Colossians 3:4).

    Justification is a one-time event, sanctification is a process, and glorification is a future event.

    If you are a Christian, you are guaranteed all three steps.

    THE GOSPEL IS "THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION!

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Part 2.

    Justification.

    Sanctification.

    Glorification.

    If you are a Christian, you are guaranteed all three steps (see Romans 8:29-30).

    You are forever justified, you are being sanctified, and you will for sure be glorified.

    1 Corinthians 6:11.

    All three of these things are from God's grace, not because of anything you have done or will do to earn them. see Ephesians 2:8-9.

    You cannot earn your justification, you cannot achieve your sanctification, and you cannot merit your glorification.

    You can do nothing without Christ.

    John 15:4-5.

    Romans 3:10-24.

    God bless and Good night.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 3

    ABRAHAM.

    Genesis 22:1-18.

    Vs 14-18. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh, as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen. And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD; for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son; That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.

    Was Abraham justified by works? Yes.

    Scripture says that he was justified by works. ( James 2:21-24)

    Do we have here a contradiction to the apostle Paul? Did not Paul say that Abraham was justified by faith - not by works? Paul makes a very specific statement in Romans:

    "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)

    Then over in Galatians 3:6 we read, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

    Is Paul and James writings in conflict on this point? NO!

    Here is an article by J Vernon Mcgee explaining this Paradox.

    Paul vs. James in the Use of Words.

    May I hasten to state that Paul and James do not conflict at all. They are in entire agreement. As someone has said, "Paul and James do not stand face to face, fighting against each other, but they stand back to back fighting opposite foes." The whole problem lies in the fact that they use the same words, but with a different meaning altogether. They are discussing the same subject from different viewpoints. This you will find upon examining the context.

    See Part 4.

    J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)

    Therefore, we see that when Paul uses the term justification he is talking about a man's relationship with God; when James uses the same term, he is talking about a man's relationship with the world. One is perpendicular, and the other is horizontal.

    Paul and James View Faith.

    The same procedure runs true in their use of the term faith. Again, they mean something different. When Paul talks of faith he is talking about that which is toward God. Paul says that saving faith - a faith that is genuine and real - will transform a person's life. Paul said of himself,

    But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. ( Philippians 3:7)

    A real revolution took place in his life when he came to Christ. Looking again at Galatians 3:6, we read that "as Abraham believed Godit was accounted to him for righteousness." And then in Romans:

    But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( Romans 4:5)

    Paul is speaking here of that which we bring to God. The only thing that a sinner can bring to God is faith in Jesus Christ. When James writes about this, he is not talking about faith toward God but about the works of faith. So Paul is talking about the root of faith, and James is talking about the fruit of faith, but they are both defending the citadel of faith.

    Here in James 2:14.

    James is not talking about the works of the Law. The faith that James is talking about here is professing faith, that which is phony and counterfeit. Paul refers to the same idea when he says in 1 Corinthians 15:2, "unless ye have believed in vain." Paul also wrote, "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). James simply says that the faith which saves you will produce works-"works of faith.

    See Part 6. Paul and James View Faith.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 6. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Faith.)

    One of the greatest dangers for preachers of the gospel is that we like to see people converted, and we are willing to accept a brazen and flippant yes from some individual who says, "Yes, I'll trust Jesus." However, it might be just an impertinent, impudent, and insolent nod of the head; it is so easy today to be as phony as a three-dollar bill. James says, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone" ( James 2:17). Therefore, even though he uses the word faith, James means faithfulness - a faith that makes you faithful before men.

    A minister once asked a man who professed conversion, "Have you united with the church?"

    "No, I haven't," the man replied. "The dying thief never united with the church, and he went to heaven."

    The minister asked, "Have you ever sat at the Lord's table?"

    "No, the dying thief never did, and he was accepted," was the man's answer.

    The minister asked, "Have you been baptized?"

    "No," he said, "the dying thief was never baptized, and he went to heaven."

    "Have you given to missions?"

    "No, the dying thief did not give to missions, and he was not judged for it," was the reply.

    Then this disgusted minister said to the man, "Well, my friend, the difference between you two seems to be that he was a dying thief and you are a living thief."

    See Part 7 (Paul and James View Works)
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 7. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Works)

    When it comes to the word works, surely Paul and James must mean the same thing, do they not? No, they absolutely do not. When Paul speaks of works, he speaks of the works of the Law. I wonder if you have ever noticed that? Will you listen to him,

    Therefore, by the deeds [or works] of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin. ( Romans 3:20)

    So, it is clear that when Paul is talking about works, he is talking about the works of the Law. Then turn to Galatians 2:16 where we read, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Here again Paul is talking about the works of the Law.

    But James talks about the works of faith. Could he be any more explicit than when he says,

    But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith [not the works of the Law, but that which faith produces] without works is dead? ( James 2:20)

    Therefore, if man's faith does not produce works, that man's faith is dead. Here we find that the two men have two extremely different sources of works in mind. James, that of faith; Paul, that of the Law.

    Paul and James Use Abraham to Illustrate.

    At this point, let's bring the teaching of these two men to bear upon the life of God's great servant, Abraham, in the question of justification, for we find both Paul and James using Abraham as an example. This is of keen interest as we see that Paul lets us look at Abraham when God made His first appearance to him, and James goes to the end of his life when God made His seventh and last appearance to Abraham. Paul goes back to the birth of Isaac and the time when God called Abraham - at which time this man had no works and had very feeble faith, but nonetheless a faith sufficient to move out with God. And when he moved out with God, he was justified by faith.-
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 8. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James Use Abraham to Illustrate.)

    So Paul's example has to do with the early part of Abraham's life. When James presents his argument, we find that he deals with the end of Abraham's life and the offering of Isaac upon the altar. This was the last appearance of God to this man, and James says, in essence, "Now here is the example of what faith has done in this man's life - it has brought him to make the supreme sacrifice."

    Look again at James 2:21: "Was not Abraham, our father, justified by works, when he had offered Isaac, his son, upon the altar?" Now in what way does the offering of Isaac reveal the fact that Abraham was justified by works? To see this clearly, we need to notice some very familiar facts. These interesting incidents took place toward the end of the life of Abraham when God called upon him to make the great sacrifice - which was the supreme crisis in his life.

    God's Test - Genesis 22.

    "And it came to pass after these things, that God did test Abraham" ( Genesis 22:1). The King James Version uses the word "tempt," but the New Scofield Reference Bible changes it to "test." I know that it's the same Greek word that you will find for "tempt," but you will also recall that James says,

    Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. ( James 1:13)

    Now when a man is tempted with evil, it is never God tempting him; it is Satan. God does not tempt men with evil; He tempts them with the good. He tests men in that sense. God's tests always lead to discipline and development of Christian character and life, while the tests and temptations of Satan always lead to the destruction of the life of the individual. Here we see that Abraham is being tested of God for his own good.

    See Part 9. God's Test - Genesis 22 continued.
  • Bennymkje - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Spenser,

    Paul and James are not talking of different things. Since you are quoting another let me explain; faith is one (Ep.4:5-6) Either you are with Christ or you are on the enemy camp. Faith with works to be seen of man is what enemies to Christ do. Simplicity that is in Christ does wonders to whosoever comes to him trusting. In thee is the fountain of light. In thy light we see the light.(Ps.36:9) So the believer who is dead to the world and to sin abides in him in faith and abound in fruits, has fulfilled the word of the Son. "Without me you can do nothing. " So Vernon is talking what he does not have a clue. I have not heard him but I suppose he is a radio personality.

    In another place he speaks of God calling Abraham out. He is not simply calling any one in void but in his Son. Abraham is no exception.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi "Bennymkje"

    Faith with works for justification? No!

    I don't quite understand where you are coming from.

    However, as James and Paul is saying "Saviing Faith produces good works.

    James said he will sho you his Faith by his works. James 2:18. Paul is saying the same thing throughout his epistles.

    You mentioned fruit and quoted John 15:5. "Without me you can do nothing"

    I believe I delivered that in this thread as well.

    Again I am not quite understanding your rebuttal. I haven't read your material so I don't know your take on Justification and Sanctification.

    Perhaps you could share your understanding.

    God bless.
  • Bennymkje - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Spencer,

    "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;/ One Lord, one faith, one baptism,/

    One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all./ But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ."(Ep.4:4-6)

    You ask: "I don't quite understand where you are coming from." I am a child of God, my personal antecedents surely must be of no use to understand each other so we shall begin on the same brotherly spirit I commented to your post.

    Being called, justified and given certain gifts, 'according to the measure of the gift of Christ' I labor and if you look about in this forum you shall see my posts, fruits of my labor. It may give a proof. That is my material from my understanding of the word of God.

    To answer the last part of your reply,"Again I am not quite understanding your rebuttal. I haven't read your material so I don't know your take on Justification and Sanctification, I quoted a passage at the beginning. Read it carefully. It is God breathed so both James and Paul putting down the truth that cannot like putty to be twisted into any shape than for the glory of God.

    In order to add to your understanding read He.11:3 God framed the worlds by his word so faith is very much the 'pure speech' God's commandment and the world made to appear is the earth that abides forever.(Ec.1:4) So God is through all and in you all is not about the world we live in where culture wars are fought and nations exploit whosoever they will. As a child of God faith is to be part of the kingdom and as a branch to the true vine. So much as part of sharing my understanding. With joy and peace in Him,
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi "Bennymkje"

    You stated

    "if you look about in this forum you shall see my posts, fruits of my labor. It may give a proof. That is my material from my understanding of the word of God." End quote.

    I would like to correct my statement when I said I haven't read your material.

    What I meant to say is I haven't read anything on the topic of Justification or Salvation by you, so I don't know your take.

    This certainly would help in what you are trying to convey to me.

    I know you have been posting here for some time now and I've glanced at some of your posting a few times but you do not stay on topic so I left off reading them.

    I read and understand the scriptures you gave but I don't understand "YOU"

    Please speak plainly and direct with me, perhaps I'm slow of learning or a babe in Christ.

    Thanks and God bless.
  • Bennymkje - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Spencer,

    Thanks for your feedback. If you have anything specific to ask from the Bible I shall only be happy to clarify it. Greetings,
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thanks "Bennymkje"

    I certainly will. I mostly participate on weekends due to my work schedule.

    I will get back to you soon.

    God bless
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 9. J Vernon Mcgee. God's Test - Genesis 22 continuing.

    We should pause here to consider a deep truth for God's children today. Do you know, friends, that for the Christian the greatest testings do not necessarily come at the beginning of our life as a believer? Sometimes God waits until we have had many years along the path, and then He brings a testing into our life so that He might develop us - a testing that we would never have been given at the beginning of our walk with Him. Often these testings cause Christians to say, "Well, I do not see why God has allowed this to happen to me!" My friend, it is evidence of the fact that you are in favor with God. You have come to the place where He can test you. And remember that He will not test you beyond what you are able to bear (see 1 Corinthians 10:13).

    Notice that this test did not come at the first part of Abraham's life. I am very frank to say that I do not believe that Abraham could have stood this test when God first called him out. At the beginning of his life of faith, he never would have gone this far with God. It was only after several times of lesser testings, then backsliding, but always returning to his relationship with God that he was put to this ultimate test.

    Part 10

    The Supreme Sacrifice next.

    God bless for now.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi S. Spencer

    Thanks for this discourse of Mr. McGee.

    The only thing that I would like to point out is that Mr. McGee says that the sacrifice of Isaac was at the end of Abraham's life.

    But from the biblical account, Abraham lived to see Isaac become a grown man, marry and seems to have been alive in the time of Jacob's life. How long into Jacob's life, I am not sure off the top of my head.

    At the time of the command to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham was about 110-120 years old, but it seems that he lived to be 175 years old.

    Otherwise, Mr. Mcgee's writing is edifying.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thanks Gigi.

    I believe Mcgee is talking about Abraham being towards the end of his journey.

    Isaac was a grown man when Abraham offered him.

    By the time we get to Genesis 24:1 it reads. Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the LORD had blessed Abraham in all things. Not much more said about Abraham after that. He dies and was gathered to his people in Ch 25 then God blessed Issac.

    Abraham was about 160 years old when Jacob was born.

    Great observation.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 4.

    J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)

    Examining the context.

    Therefore, the confusion rests in a misunderstanding of their use of the three words: justify, faith, and works. If we understand what each means in his use of these three words, we shall find out that Paul and James are not in conflict.

    Paul and James View Justification.

    In the interest of clarity, let us find out what Paul and James really meant when they used these three terms.

    The first term to come before us is justified or justification. When Paul uses this term it always means justified in God's sight. He speaks of how the sinner down here is made right with God. He is never justified by works before God, but he is justified by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the only thing that God accepts. In fact, Paul makes it very clear:

    For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)

    So we see that when Paul uses the word justification he is thinking of the sinner's position in connection with and before God.

    Now when James uses the term justification he is not thinking of it as being before God at all. Rather, he is thinking of justification before men - how a Christian is justified before men - and he makes that clear:

    Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works; show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. ( James 2:18)

    In other words, James says, "I am talking here about justification for people who don't believe it until they see it. I am talking about justification before men." Then he makes that perfectly clear again, for a little later he writes,

    Ye see [not God sees, but ye see], then, that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. ( James 2:24)

    See Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)



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