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Yesterday I came across a YouTube video of Joyce Meyer who appears to be a Christian female pastor.
Most all Christians I see on TV come across as false teachers and this is troubling. Nearly all seem to be obsessed with money and power and are crafty and deceptive in their words. The following verse comes to mind:
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15 KJV
What I don't understand is how they come to this prominent position in the first place. Does God let them attain this and why?
Did they start out with good intentions then become corrupted, or have they always been wolves in sheep's clothing?
"29. For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; 30. Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me."
The "Prosperity Gospel" is what I have heard it called. It certainly isn't based off the Bible and can be easily debunked. The scripture that comes to my mind is 2 Timothy 4:3. Those type of pastors tell people whatever they want to hear, and people like it, thus they pay for that type of ministry and gospel. The are charismatic pastors and people lend them their resources, thus they gain prominence and prestige.
It is as Bennymkje said. God knows those who belong to him. We all will stand before the judgement seat of God. They are having their reward in full now, because if they are indeed judged to have been mishandling the word of God......it won't be good.
Also, just as Jesus said. If we remain in his word, we will know the truth and the truth will set us free. ( John 8:31,32)
Indeed Adam, those are good questions. Not knowing Joyce Meyer or the many others like her, as I'm unfamiliar with them, my sense is that for many of them they translate material blessings, a high Church position/fame, & the like, as God's special Favor upon them; and of course, their congregants should likewise aspire to attain such 'blessings'. When the people continue to witness this 'prosperity' & learn accordingly 'from the Word', then they become dull to the Truth & the Purposes of God for them & the world. So, living in a mansion, with several aircraft & cars at their disposal, alongwith the wonderful appointment of God for them to hold such a leading privileged position, would no doubt blind them to biblical Truth.
I always wonder what happens to those Church members who don't 'make it' as a result, who give sacrificially to the Church/to its demands upon them to line the preacher's pockets but get no promised return - what happens? Some press on regardless & I think, many leave disheartened & back into the world. When believers blindly accept the leader's words & not search the Scriptures for themselves, error breeds & believers are led further astray.
So why does God allow them to come in & worse still, continue? Unfortunately, the wheat & tares must grow together, & I would still like to believe that those who are truly saved among them, will receive the conviction of the Spirit, just as those trapped in catholicism, cults, etc., that they will come out & be free. The work of Grace & overpowering Love for His Own, won't leave the true child of God without witness, emboldenment & strength to search for & hold onto Truth.
Amen. I feel really bad for those deceived. Some are legitimately trying to turn their life around and get polluted with the false teachings. But I think God can work conversion miracles even through this. Not sure at what point it does more harm than good, just like the Christmas holiday season.
God knows who are his and shall delver them who keep the truth. Long ago I belonged to a cult group that taught that there shall be animal sacrifices as before. Their reasoning was that God never errs in His commandments. It was a mismatch of so many doctrines of man. They wanted to control the minds by mind-numbing 'tarrying' meetings for the Holy Spirit Their true intent was to enforce their will- worship (Touch not, taste not and in their dress ) over their congregants by enforcing themselves as the Levites under the Order of Aaron. As a Sunday school teacher the more I began studying the word of God by myself, the scales fell of my eyes as it were, and I left their Assembly.
Shortly thereafter they sent two of their two brethren to ask me what 'speaking in tongues' meant for me, intending to say it was of devil if I were to leave them. I admitted I was mistaken and the truth has freed me. They tried to frighten by saying that I would go back to them on my knees within two years. i simply laughed them out. There are many such e false shepherds out there and it is none of our business to meddle with them. God's promises are always yea in his Son.
Earlier I placed this reply which was shoddy having written half-awake and after posting my conclusion on Is.2. It gave me a sleepless night so I first tackled what needed to be written down and this is same and cleaned up of typos
Wow, that sounds like an intense group. I have not encountered that, but I've visited and belonged to church groups that later revealed themselves to be social bullies- exerting high peer pressure over you to conform to a certain type of behavior. I don't like this.
I've even see church leaders deceive others into accepting the Lord. It seems unlikely that would ever happen, but its an incremental process. Because why would anyone need to be tricked or manipulated into doing that. But I suspect part of this pressure was on the pastor himself to meet an arbitrary quota of "conversions". For example, he might say at the end of a sermon, if you can relate to this, just "slip up your hand". "no one will be looking, that's all we ask". But then the demands continue, "If you raised your hand earlier, please stand" then "if you stood, please come forward" then they get the crowd to clap for them to walk forward- social pressure. Then "all those who came forward please pray to be converted then go to this side room, on and on... I personally don't think people need to be tricked or artificially forced into accepting the Lord, I think it's in His and the person's timing. Of course, sometimes that time is now, but why the deceptiveness?
Also visited a Vineyard church which had people "exercising" their holy spirit and gifts, from laughing on the floor, to almost barking like dogs, and jumping and running around. I saw someone try to speak jibberish assuming it was in tongues and there was peer pressure to do that. At some point I think people get caught up in man's way of doing things instead of God's way.
That was of the Lord's doing Bennymkje that you were delivered from the bondage & errors of the cult & I think there are many more that have likewise been touched to depart those deceivers of the Word.
Though you brought up a matter of the sacrifices still to be carried out during the Millenium. There has been varied opinions about this (I don't know how that group understood it), seeing that the Lamb of God Who was sacrificed for all will be on the Throne for all to behold. I believe that those old sacrifices could never take away sin ( Hebrews 10:11,12), only God's provision of His Lamb could. Yet, what are we to make of Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 and other portions? Could it be emblematic: that which was meticulously followed in days of old could only look forward to a coming One Who would deal with the disease of sin forever? That the Christ Who will be before them on the Throne, still with the marks of His Suffering & Death, is the fulfilment of all that was performed before Him? Just as we have the bread & the wine today as a memorial looking back at the Cross, maybe these future sacrifices serve as a memorial looking forward to the Blessed One sacrificed for them, Who is now in their presence. Only a thought on my part as I too try to understand the reason for the need for such sacrifices in the coming Kingdom; I could be entirely wrong in this & always open to other thoughts.
The slain Lamb is an emblem which signifies everlasting covenant between God and Man. It is part of the world made to appear, namely the Lamb of God.(He.11:3) This world abides forever since Jesus Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. (Col.1:15) God framed the worlds by the word of God which is eternal.(He.13:8) After the last enemy death is conquered we have the Son himself subject to the Father that God may be all in all." (1 Co.15:29) So there is no further need for an emblem which is represented by the throne of the Lamb (Re.22:10. There is no blood in heaven since the blood of Jesus has done its perfect work. With one sacrifice means the animal sacrifices under the Law of Moses are dispensed with. Jesus is the fulfillment of Law.(He.10:14). All this controversy over Sabbath and sinless perfection is a matter of overkill. Until his advent there was a reason,- and in Jesus christ is the fulness of God so our faith part is to abide in him and his fulfillment is signaled when he says,"It is done."(Col.1:15-19; Re.21:5) John 3:16 assures us everlasting life and we walk by faith abounding in good works. I am the life means we have passed from death to life.
I understand your comment is summed up in: "With one sacrifice means the animal sacrifices under the Law of Moses are dispensed with", that the OT sacrifices have no more bearing, as God's Provision of His Lamb accomplishes all things. To this I certainly agree, but the problem, 'what are we to do with those references that clearly show that those sacrifices, once abolished, are now prophesied as taking place in the future?' Are we to re-interpret those verses, disregard them, or consider them simply as illustrations given to a people that have no little or no knowledge of a coming Human Sacrifice? The group you were with believed them to be valid for the future, yet we know that the old can have no effectual part with the new, or else the new becomes diluted, violated, & meaningless. So that group believed the Bible as given on this matter, but how then are we to view what has been prophesied?
Rightly dividing the truth we set children of light under one nation and the children of darkness in the other in terms of God who is the judge. Jesus Christ shall determine which are the goats and which are the sheep. This is given in a similitude. It is the fulfillment of Ge.1:3-4.
Similarly the seven days in Ge.1 shall never contradic. These are seven bullet point headings in the Everlasting Covenant. So sixth day indicates God blessed man which is to lead man to the throne of God and of the Lamb. (Re.22:1) So all events names of land and people, significance of names and what happens to them or their actions are of consequence. New Jerusalem is fulfilled in heaven and comes down. So correct approach is to treat both worlds of the Spirit and of the earth. Col.1:1-3; 2 Co.5:1-5
Comparing spiritual with spiritual is the correct way to explain the doctrine and shall not contradict the holiness of God under any circumstance. So promises are yea in the Son.
There is a lot of evil in this world, fallen angels, demons, evil people, and the head honcho Satan the devil. As we see in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
They make merchandise of those who fall into their deception, 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. They look up to heaven and see all the stars are 20-dollar bills, the love of money is so powerful, that many cannot resist.
Does God allow it? Since it is so prevalent, I am sure God has His reasons, but we do not see the result. Deuteronomy 18:20 and Matthew 18:6 and many more their punishment will be great. We are to go humbly and in prayer to the Bible with open ears and trust God through the Holy Spirit for the truth and share it in how we are led.
Their intentions only God knows, God will allow us to choose the road of this world, filled with riches but we know all the wealth of this world is filth compared to the true riches we have in Christ, that the narrow rocky road leads to. As Jesus said take heed that no man deceive you.
Most all Christians I see on TV come across as false teachers and this is troubling. Nearly all seem to be obsessed with money and power and are crafty and deceptive in their words. The following verse comes to mind:
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15 KJV
What I don't understand is how they come to this prominent position in the first place. Does God let them attain this and why?
Did they start out with good intentions then become corrupted, or have they always been wolves in sheep's clothing?
God bless
"29. For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; 30. Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me."
[Comment Removed]
That's a good question!
The "Prosperity Gospel" is what I have heard it called. It certainly isn't based off the Bible and can be easily debunked. The scripture that comes to my mind is 2 Timothy 4:3. Those type of pastors tell people whatever they want to hear, and people like it, thus they pay for that type of ministry and gospel. The are charismatic pastors and people lend them their resources, thus they gain prominence and prestige.
It is as Bennymkje said. God knows those who belong to him. We all will stand before the judgement seat of God. They are having their reward in full now, because if they are indeed judged to have been mishandling the word of God......it won't be good.
Also, just as Jesus said. If we remain in his word, we will know the truth and the truth will set us free. ( John 8:31,32)
I always wonder what happens to those Church members who don't 'make it' as a result, who give sacrificially to the Church/to its demands upon them to line the preacher's pockets but get no promised return - what happens? Some press on regardless & I think, many leave disheartened & back into the world. When believers blindly accept the leader's words & not search the Scriptures for themselves, error breeds & believers are led further astray.
So why does God allow them to come in & worse still, continue? Unfortunately, the wheat & tares must grow together, & I would still like to believe that those who are truly saved among them, will receive the conviction of the Spirit, just as those trapped in catholicism, cults, etc., that they will come out & be free. The work of Grace & overpowering Love for His Own, won't leave the true child of God without witness, emboldenment & strength to search for & hold onto Truth.
God knows who are his and shall delver them who keep the truth. Long ago I belonged to a cult group that taught that there shall be animal sacrifices as before. Their reasoning was that God never errs in His commandments. It was a mismatch of so many doctrines of man. They wanted to control the minds by mind-numbing 'tarrying' meetings for the Holy Spirit Their true intent was to enforce their will- worship (Touch not, taste not and in their dress ) over their congregants by enforcing themselves as the Levites under the Order of Aaron. As a Sunday school teacher the more I began studying the word of God by myself, the scales fell of my eyes as it were, and I left their Assembly.
Shortly thereafter they sent two of their two brethren to ask me what 'speaking in tongues' meant for me, intending to say it was of devil if I were to leave them. I admitted I was mistaken and the truth has freed me. They tried to frighten by saying that I would go back to them on my knees within two years. i simply laughed them out. There are many such e false shepherds out there and it is none of our business to meddle with them. God's promises are always yea in his Son.
Earlier I placed this reply which was shoddy having written half-awake and after posting my conclusion on Is.2. It gave me a sleepless night so I first tackled what needed to be written down and this is same and cleaned up of typos
I've even see church leaders deceive others into accepting the Lord. It seems unlikely that would ever happen, but its an incremental process. Because why would anyone need to be tricked or manipulated into doing that. But I suspect part of this pressure was on the pastor himself to meet an arbitrary quota of "conversions". For example, he might say at the end of a sermon, if you can relate to this, just "slip up your hand". "no one will be looking, that's all we ask". But then the demands continue, "If you raised your hand earlier, please stand" then "if you stood, please come forward" then they get the crowd to clap for them to walk forward- social pressure. Then "all those who came forward please pray to be converted then go to this side room, on and on... I personally don't think people need to be tricked or artificially forced into accepting the Lord, I think it's in His and the person's timing. Of course, sometimes that time is now, but why the deceptiveness?
Also visited a Vineyard church which had people "exercising" their holy spirit and gifts, from laughing on the floor, to almost barking like dogs, and jumping and running around. I saw someone try to speak jibberish assuming it was in tongues and there was peer pressure to do that. At some point I think people get caught up in man's way of doing things instead of God's way.
Though you brought up a matter of the sacrifices still to be carried out during the Millenium. There has been varied opinions about this (I don't know how that group understood it), seeing that the Lamb of God Who was sacrificed for all will be on the Throne for all to behold. I believe that those old sacrifices could never take away sin ( Hebrews 10:11,12), only God's provision of His Lamb could. Yet, what are we to make of Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 and other portions? Could it be emblematic: that which was meticulously followed in days of old could only look forward to a coming One Who would deal with the disease of sin forever? That the Christ Who will be before them on the Throne, still with the marks of His Suffering & Death, is the fulfilment of all that was performed before Him? Just as we have the bread & the wine today as a memorial looking back at the Cross, maybe these future sacrifices serve as a memorial looking forward to the Blessed One sacrificed for them, Who is now in their presence. Only a thought on my part as I too try to understand the reason for the need for such sacrifices in the coming Kingdom; I could be entirely wrong in this & always open to other thoughts.
Similarly the seven days in Ge.1 shall never contradic. These are seven bullet point headings in the Everlasting Covenant. So sixth day indicates God blessed man which is to lead man to the throne of God and of the Lamb. (Re.22:1) So all events names of land and people, significance of names and what happens to them or their actions are of consequence. New Jerusalem is fulfilled in heaven and comes down. So correct approach is to treat both worlds of the Spirit and of the earth. Col.1:1-3; 2 Co.5:1-5
Comparing spiritual with spiritual is the correct way to explain the doctrine and shall not contradict the holiness of God under any circumstance. So promises are yea in the Son.
[Comment Removed]
There is a lot of evil in this world, fallen angels, demons, evil people, and the head honcho Satan the devil. As we see in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
They make merchandise of those who fall into their deception, 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. They look up to heaven and see all the stars are 20-dollar bills, the love of money is so powerful, that many cannot resist.
Does God allow it? Since it is so prevalent, I am sure God has His reasons, but we do not see the result. Deuteronomy 18:20 and Matthew 18:6 and many more their punishment will be great. We are to go humbly and in prayer to the Bible with open ears and trust God through the Holy Spirit for the truth and share it in how we are led.
Their intentions only God knows, God will allow us to choose the road of this world, filled with riches but we know all the wealth of this world is filth compared to the true riches we have in Christ, that the narrow rocky road leads to. As Jesus said take heed that no man deceive you.
God bless,
RLW
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