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Jesus the Messiah/Christ God's only begotten Son is the purpose, I do not know if I am reading your question correctly, may you and others have more or different understandings.
1 Corinthians 2:16 tells us we have the mind of Christ, but no one can know the mind of God. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus. All began with Jesus; Jesus is the beginning of God's plan. Isaiah 45:18Isaiah 46:8-10 God and there is none like Him, He declared the end from the beginning His counsel (His purpose and plan by His will) shall stand and God will do all His pleasure, Psalms 33:11.
God is not in our time the end of His plan is as the beginning God's plan was completed when He made it, we have the Bible, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit His plan is made known to us as our time comes to be, as in Ephesians 1:10-12 to be the praise and glory to God.
God declared from the very beginnings of history, Acts 17:24-26 there is but one human race, we all are of the same blood, and in Jesus Christ we become brothers and sisters. In God's plan, it is finished, nothing will change. In God, it is finished already to Him who is from everlasting to everlasting, Psalms 90:2 and how He can "calleth those things which be not as though they were." Romans 4:17-18.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Brother Ronald may you abound more and more in the Grace and knowledge of God. I agree that God is unsearchable and past finding out. But from my understanding of Scripture Jesus Christ is the thoughts of God. After all he is the creator,sustainer,plan,counsel and eternal purpose in action. Psalm 33:11- the counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Thus Jesus is the thoughts of God. The logos,the very plan in action. In simpler terms God thought it all out before the beginning,then those thoughts were spoken. Thus he did declare the end from the beginning. I can not separate God And his thoughts,for his thoughts,logos as in action is God,was with God in the beginning. I may not be clarifying myself. I apologize if not. I've not used Scripture references for I am persuaded you have the word of God deep in your heart. Thank you for your time
Regarding your question: "Is anyone up for discussing God's eternal purpose?" (question mark added):
The use of the word "eternal" is appropriate because everything regarding God is "eternal" and I might add "perfect". Nothing He does is limited by time, due to His omnipresence. He's never done anything in the past or future. Anything He creates always has and always will be exactly as He created it NOW. God did not do anything yesterday, nor tomorrow.
His PURPOSE is always creation NOW, extended and shared always NOW, never wavering, changing, or ceasing. What He creates is fully created and created perfect Now for eternity. He does not acknowledge time, thus not bound by time's laws. He creates in His Own Likeness, i.e. of like quality; and in His Own Image, i.e. His Own Thought. We are the Thought of God, and He retains His extensions of His Thoughts (you, us) in His Mind. And thoughts can never leave their Source.
God created us to extend His Thoughts. As God created us, this is actually our natural God given ability; yet extending God's Love can be put off temporarily, resulting from believing in lies told us by our own self-serving ego.
Only beings of like order can truly communicate, which is why Jesus APPEARED as human flesh. Yet ONLY minds can truly communicate, and communication with the Mind of God Who is SPIRIT (not a body) is life. God created every mind by communicating His mind to it. Again, communication with God is Life.
God created you to create. It is His PURPOSE and WILL. His Will and purpose be done because there is no other will or purpose that can usurp His power. It does not exist in His Mind, but only in the minds of the insane (myself included). Is it difficult to accept the law of creation that you love your creations as your self because they are literally a part of you? If so, we should be joyful Love creates Itself and NOTHING but Itself. We should not perceive ourselves in any other light.
Greetings brother "One eighty" thank you for taking time to reply to my question and thought. I may be misunderstanding you,if so I apologize. But according to what has been revealed to me personally by revelation is that Jesus is the thoughts of Gods heart. Psalm33:11 And the beginning of the Gospel of John. The logos where we get our word logic or reason. Thus God before Time began purposed all things in his heart before beginning the creation by the word= thoughts. Jesus was in the beginning with God,and when God logos creation began,. I have a question for you to ponder. Which came first light or darkness. Just something to ponder. I seek godly counsel to always make sure God's word doesn't get twisted in my finite mind. For thinkers are what God created us to be. And to always think upon Him And meditate upon his word and he promises that we can understand All things. His word says so. Proverbs 28:5
Hello Brother ! Yes that would be a pleasure for me . Please say what you think feel believe . It's so good for us to talk about the things that pertain to our God and I'm interested in other people's perceptions very much .
First I ask you a question. What came first? Light or darkness? And where and when were they created or formed or made. I firmly believe to fully grasp the first chapter of Genesis unlocks the entire eternal purpose of God he purposed in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. I Love God's word. And I thank you for taking time to discuss with me. I'm in no hurry. For God has firmly revealed to me that I have need of patience that after I've done the Will of God I might receive the promise. ( Paraphrase. Hebrews 10;36
That's a very interesting question! "What came first? Light or darkness?"
I believe when God created the heavens and the earth he also created "Time" and from our point of view that started with darkness. (And the evening and the morning were the first day.)
However, there is more to it when considering what they represent spiritually.
We can gather references out of John 1.
I haven't gave much thought or study on this but I believe "spiritually or otherwise" one cannot exist without the other.
Genesis 1:2-4 it reads, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Here I don't believe darkness and light "being created" is not in these verses but their existence is present. (God spoke and "brought in the Light." and darkness as well already existed. "Again, this is from our point of view and the beginning of time.
However Spiritually, Psalms 139:10-12 may give us a glimpse of what it's like from God's point of view and spiritually.
"Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Also. Genesis 1:2 can read "And the earth (Became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
Greetings my brother beloved. I will not rush in trying to answer all these questions in one sitting. For no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation ( Paraphrase) but scripture is always interpreted by the Holy Spirit through more scriptures. So Genesis 1:1 in the beginning God created The heaven and the earth. -- now thus far what scripture has revealed to me is something went wrong. Because scripture says 1 John 3:8- He that committeth sin is of the devil,FOR THE DEVIL SINNETH (FROM THE BEGINNING) for this purpose The son of God was manifest ( LIGHT) that he might destroy the works of the devil. ( There is our eternal purpose of God) Just think upon that and meditate. We'll rejoice in scripture together brother
I am sorry, you may have misunderstood me, the discussion was first on God's eternal purpose, and then What came first Light or darkness? Those are deep subjects that make us think I thought I was giving my understanding on those two questions. I know I am not the best at explaining my understanding. You added Lucifer and something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 my understanding of those two things in my mind did not fit in the discussion of your two questions.
When I said my understanding was different, I did not mean to discuss prophecy, I still do not see the word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 like a gap theory is associated with prophecy or the two questions, that is just me. If you could give more of your understanding of the devil some call Lucifer and what you think happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and your two questions.
As I mentioned. No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. Gods eternal purpose was to bring himself Glory, and it included first and foremost destroying the works of the devil= darkness. Thanks for your input. I apologize for misunderstanding you. I don't study gap theories. I study scriptures. Precept upon precept, here a little there a little. I apologize if I stirred up anything concerning the flesh. As I mentioned. To expound revelation can't be done in one sitting. He committeth sin is of the devil,for the devil SINNETH FROM the BEGINNING for This PURPOSE The son of God was manifest ( Light) that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 -- and LET THERE BE LIGHT - IF ITS TOO DIFFICULT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THE DEEP THINGS OF GOD WE MUST NOT BE STUDYING IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. FOR THE SPIRIT SEARCHES ALL THINGS, YEA THE DEEP THINGS OF GOD. AND DARKNESS WAS WHERE? UPON THE FACE OF THE DEEP Spirit searching it out. So do I. Thank you brother Ronald. God bless you
There is no need to apologize you have not stirred up anything, I agree with you on 2 Peter 1:20-21 Scripture, the word of God is not the author's or prophet's interpretation or understanding of what God relayed to them through the Holy Spirit. Every word in Scripture is from God, not man, and can be cherished and trusted.
My understanding of a discussion is two or more people in respect and love share their understanding of a subject. If someone asks a question, they are asking for the understanding of the subject of someone else to reach a decision or to exchange understandings asked of the person.
Truth is only given to us through the Spirit of Truth that Jesus sends to us from the Father, which proceedeth from the Father, John 15:26. You may see the earth was destroyed by the sin of Satan between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, my understanding that produces two beginnings of the earth and the universe as Scripture tells us in Genesis 1. God has no beginning, the angels had a beginning, and the angels saw and shouted for joy at the beginning of this earth and universe Job 38. We may not agree on some points but that is ok.
I am not sure to whom you asked this question. If I may, I feel you have put on chest waders, I love it. I would love to hear your thoughts; may we all grow in the knowledge of our LORD. "What came first? Light or darkness? And where and when were they created or formed or made."
If we look at Genesis darkness was, and God said let there be light, and He divided them. Does that make darkness before light? God called the light day and the darkness night. What was this light since there was not a sun until day four?
Light has both physical and theological aspects. The "complete light" is that "true light that gives light to every man", the light of God which has come into the world in the person of Jesus Christ, John 1:9. Jesus said of himself "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world".
Or should we consider Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Does not all creation come from the only God, our Father?
Yes the Light is indeed the Light of the knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ. And upon careful study of the scriptures the darkness was already there, thus it was created because as you pointed out in Isaiah 45:7. I have revelation that that darkness was the Old Lucifer who turned the light God gave to him into that darkness and God knew he would,for it is All according to his eternal purpose. The Light of the knowledge of God excelleth that darkness. Thus something happened between Genesis 1:1-2. For everything was overturned and made a wilderness at the fierce anger of the Lord. I think it's in Jeremiah 4:23- (Paraphrase) got I'm speaking the truth from the heart. " I beheld and lo the earth was void and empty and darkness and it was overthrow by the fierce anger of the Lord. And Isaiah 14 says Lucifer made the world as a wilderness. And he calls the darkness - NIGHT. So it was overthrown in the night by The lord.- Job 34:25. And paraphrasing Jesus Christ. He said are their not 12 hours in a day? And John 9:4 I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is DAY: THE NIGHT COMETH, WHEN NO MAN CAN WORK JOHN 9:5- while I Am in the world,I am the Light of the world. He will come as a thief in the night. I am persuaded I have the testimony of Jesus which is the Spirit of prophecy. Not that I am anything or anyone. But Jesus Christ And Him loving My poor and needy self. Thank you so much for blessing me with an opportunity to share the deep things of God's unsearchable word. God bless you
As S Spencer said, this is an interesting question, just some last thoughts and whether or not we have enough Scripture to know the complete answer. Scripture is relatively silent about the eternal past, even in the New Testament, where the clearest and fullest light of God's revelation shines. Very few passages reach backward in their scope further than the foundation of the world at the beginning of the ages of our time. God's plan was before the foundation of this earth was laid.
God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all, 1 John 1:5, and we know from Job 38 that the angels and the principalities and powers in heaven were created before Genesis 1. A thought, God created darkness as a place to put the earth outside of the third heaven, the earth was without form and void, this would be empty of all life and covered in surging water of chaos enclosed in total darkness that God's Spirit moved upon and God said let there be light, God called light out of darkness His light moved into the space of darkness.
God called out of this darkness everything there is below the third heaven and the time we live in. My understanding is different on Lucifer in Isaiah 14, and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 but that may be for other discussions.
Thank you for these questions, they inspire study.
Hello brother. Thanks for reply. Firstly let us not be too hasty to give up and say we don't have enough scripture. Let's dig in and get enough I do not desire to get in a hurry with this. For it is God's eternal purpose we are discussing. So I'll let us get into study of prophecy. For no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation ( Paraphrase) best way i have come to interpret scripture by the Holy Spirit is allow scripture to interpret itself with More scripture. Firstly let us look at Genesis 1;1- in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ( There's the beginning. Now let us turn to 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil SINNETH FROM THE BEGINNING ( there it is)- for this purpose ( purpose) the son of God ( Light) was manifest that he might destroy the works of the devil. Let's meditate upon those. Something happened between Genesis 1: 1 and 1:2 = Satan's works of darkness. Let's meditate,muse,ponder and dwell upon God's word. Not our opinions. For my opinion could very well mislead us All
God's eternal purpose
Jesus the Messiah/Christ God's only begotten Son is the purpose, I do not know if I am reading your question correctly, may you and others have more or different understandings.
1 Corinthians 2:16 tells us we have the mind of Christ, but no one can know the mind of God. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus. All began with Jesus; Jesus is the beginning of God's plan. Isaiah 45:18 Isaiah 46:8-10 God and there is none like Him, He declared the end from the beginning His counsel (His purpose and plan by His will) shall stand and God will do all His pleasure, Psalms 33:11.
God is not in our time the end of His plan is as the beginning God's plan was completed when He made it, we have the Bible, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit His plan is made known to us as our time comes to be, as in Ephesians 1:10-12 to be the praise and glory to God.
God declared from the very beginnings of history, Acts 17:24-26 there is but one human race, we all are of the same blood, and in Jesus Christ we become brothers and sisters. In God's plan, it is finished, nothing will change. In God, it is finished already to Him who is from everlasting to everlasting, Psalms 90:2 and how He can "calleth those things which be not as though they were." Romans 4:17-18.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
God bless,
RLW
Regarding your question: "Is anyone up for discussing God's eternal purpose?" (question mark added):
The use of the word "eternal" is appropriate because everything regarding God is "eternal" and I might add "perfect". Nothing He does is limited by time, due to His omnipresence. He's never done anything in the past or future. Anything He creates always has and always will be exactly as He created it NOW. God did not do anything yesterday, nor tomorrow.
His PURPOSE is always creation NOW, extended and shared always NOW, never wavering, changing, or ceasing. What He creates is fully created and created perfect Now for eternity. He does not acknowledge time, thus not bound by time's laws. He creates in His Own Likeness, i.e. of like quality; and in His Own Image, i.e. His Own Thought. We are the Thought of God, and He retains His extensions of His Thoughts (you, us) in His Mind. And thoughts can never leave their Source.
God created us to extend His Thoughts. As God created us, this is actually our natural God given ability; yet extending God's Love can be put off temporarily, resulting from believing in lies told us by our own self-serving ego.
Only beings of like order can truly communicate, which is why Jesus APPEARED as human flesh. Yet ONLY minds can truly communicate, and communication with the Mind of God Who is SPIRIT (not a body) is life. God created every mind by communicating His mind to it. Again, communication with God is Life.
God created you to create. It is His PURPOSE and WILL. His Will and purpose be done because there is no other will or purpose that can usurp His power. It does not exist in His Mind, but only in the minds of the insane (myself included). Is it difficult to accept the law of creation that you love your creations as your self because they are literally a part of you? If so, we should be joyful Love creates Itself and NOTHING but Itself. We should not perceive ourselves in any other light.
Peace
That's a very interesting question! "What came first? Light or darkness?"
I believe when God created the heavens and the earth he also created "Time" and from our point of view that started with darkness. (And the evening and the morning were the first day.)
However, there is more to it when considering what they represent spiritually.
We can gather references out of John 1.
I haven't gave much thought or study on this but I believe "spiritually or otherwise" one cannot exist without the other.
Genesis 1:2-4 it reads, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Here I don't believe darkness and light "being created" is not in these verses but their existence is present. (God spoke and "brought in the Light." and darkness as well already existed. "Again, this is from our point of view and the beginning of time.
However Spiritually, Psalms 139:10-12 may give us a glimpse of what it's like from God's point of view and spiritually.
"Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Also. Genesis 1:2 can read "And the earth (Became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
I'm interested in your full take.
Thanks and God bless.
God bless.
I am sorry, you may have misunderstood me, the discussion was first on God's eternal purpose, and then What came first Light or darkness? Those are deep subjects that make us think I thought I was giving my understanding on those two questions. I know I am not the best at explaining my understanding. You added Lucifer and something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 my understanding of those two things in my mind did not fit in the discussion of your two questions.
When I said my understanding was different, I did not mean to discuss prophecy, I still do not see the word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 like a gap theory is associated with prophecy or the two questions, that is just me. If you could give more of your understanding of the devil some call Lucifer and what you think happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and your two questions.
Thank you and God bless,
RLW
There is no need to apologize you have not stirred up anything, I agree with you on 2 Peter 1:20-21 Scripture, the word of God is not the author's or prophet's interpretation or understanding of what God relayed to them through the Holy Spirit. Every word in Scripture is from God, not man, and can be cherished and trusted.
My understanding of a discussion is two or more people in respect and love share their understanding of a subject. If someone asks a question, they are asking for the understanding of the subject of someone else to reach a decision or to exchange understandings asked of the person.
Truth is only given to us through the Spirit of Truth that Jesus sends to us from the Father, which proceedeth from the Father, John 15:26. You may see the earth was destroyed by the sin of Satan between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, my understanding that produces two beginnings of the earth and the universe as Scripture tells us in Genesis 1. God has no beginning, the angels had a beginning, and the angels saw and shouted for joy at the beginning of this earth and universe Job 38. We may not agree on some points but that is ok.
God bless you, brother, be well.
RLW
I am not sure to whom you asked this question. If I may, I feel you have put on chest waders, I love it. I would love to hear your thoughts; may we all grow in the knowledge of our LORD. "What came first? Light or darkness? And where and when were they created or formed or made."
If we look at Genesis darkness was, and God said let there be light, and He divided them. Does that make darkness before light? God called the light day and the darkness night. What was this light since there was not a sun until day four?
Light has both physical and theological aspects. The "complete light" is that "true light that gives light to every man", the light of God which has come into the world in the person of Jesus Christ, John 1:9. Jesus said of himself "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world".
Or should we consider Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Does not all creation come from the only God, our Father?
God bless,
RLW
As S Spencer said, this is an interesting question, just some last thoughts and whether or not we have enough Scripture to know the complete answer. Scripture is relatively silent about the eternal past, even in the New Testament, where the clearest and fullest light of God's revelation shines. Very few passages reach backward in their scope further than the foundation of the world at the beginning of the ages of our time. God's plan was before the foundation of this earth was laid.
God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all, 1 John 1:5, and we know from Job 38 that the angels and the principalities and powers in heaven were created before Genesis 1. A thought, God created darkness as a place to put the earth outside of the third heaven, the earth was without form and void, this would be empty of all life and covered in surging water of chaos enclosed in total darkness that God's Spirit moved upon and God said let there be light, God called light out of darkness His light moved into the space of darkness.
God called out of this darkness everything there is below the third heaven and the time we live in. My understanding is different on Lucifer in Isaiah 14, and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 but that may be for other discussions.
Thank you for these questions, they inspire study.
God bless,
RLW
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