The two sticks were to be come as one. In the inaugural vision of Jesus Christ, the seven stars are the angels. Seven churches signify the body of Christ. Taken together both worlds of the Spirit and of the body are represented in these twosticks. in v.17 we have the house of Israel and also her companions. Companions denote angels. The mercy seat in the tabernacle of the wilderness also allowed their presence. Jesus sent his disciples two by two ("After these things theLordappointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come"-.Luke.10:1) signifyingthat they were preaching the gospel by themselves. The angels representing them were witnesses to their souls."And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet./Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city." (Matt.10:14-15)
This section is not pointing fingers towards you are anyone in particular.
Deuteronomy 7:6-8 is a portion of scripture that has made an envious world hate the Jews and sadly some of the body of Christ has been compromised by this evil.
"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt"
Verse 6 is what they take issue with. "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, ABOVE ALL PEOPLE THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH"
Some would like to have this said about them, so they render this to the Church.
However, be at ease the church was not in the world when this verse was given,
And the Church is never called people of the earth or earth dwellers.
However, If I'm wrong and God chooses them over the Church, he has the right to do so, it's his creation.
Deuteronomy 7:7-8 emphasizes God's elect! He didn't choose them for any particular reason. It is not the Church.
The Church was never redeemed out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Israel is part of God's plan of salvation explained in Romans 11:11-33.
I find it amazing that the same people who say you can't be saved by the law of Moses "and rightfully so"
They acknowledge scriptures like 2 Corinthians 3:6-7Galatians 3:19-25 when defending their own imperfections but say Israel failed because they couldn't.
Zechariah ch 11 hinges on the first coming of Christ. It emphasizes the rejection of Christ.
Zechariah 11:14 "Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
This happened when Israel rejected their Messiah, and the veil was rent from top to bottom. Later the Romans came in and destroyed Jerusalem.
Then came the scattering.
Ezekiel is emphasizing the regathering and Spiritual revival.
As of now they are blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
In 2 Corinthians 3:14-16. Paul says "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Also here in Romans 11.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The veil on the heart and blindness Paul is speaking of in these two books.
Verse 16 of the Corinthians passage says "Nevertheless WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, the vail shall be taken away.
When what shall turn to the Lord?
Their "Stony" heart!
This will be done away with when God puts his spirit in them spoken of by Ezekiel and Jeremiah.
Now most agree the Church started and the Jews and Gentiles were put into one body by the Ressurection of Christ.
But here in Romans and Corinthians Paul is speaking of a future event.
I merely wanted to show that symbols used change according to the context so Israel as a nation was rejected when the lion in the night vision of Daniel was plucked and made to stand like man. "and a man's heart was given to it."(Dan.7:4) Monarchial system has been done away with and man's heart sets Jesus in the direct frame of reference. Where does that leave Israel? Their dominion has been taken away. This is night vision and this clue, " In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon" tells us that we are looking at the divine Mind. "As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."(7:12) Instead vv.13-14 conform the holy city of God descending from heaven. ("And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end," Re.21:1-6) Alpha and Omega refers to the Son fulfilling the divine Will of the Father. Not David but Jesus Christ the king of kings. In Daniel's vision he is given dominion, glory and a kingdom. This is set in heaven and it is where he is established. Ps.2:6-7
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
With regards to Israel as a nation this verse says with finality: "And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down."( 2 Ki.21:13)
A remnant of Israel will be included once they realize their error and come to him in genuine repentance. Their error was in not accepting the spiritual aspect of Messiah and the spiritual kingdom.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Right to disagree is your privilege. Among brethren only truth can cement the brotherliness. If I were to please you I would not be serving truth that I understand as given to me by the grace of God. "John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." I believe it is so. I would rather please God than please man.
We both claim to present the truth and most of the time we can sort it out but I believe we use different means of interpretation, so that would make it nearly impossible on this topic.
I will be sharing more of my thoughts on this later.
Yes Dear Brother , we should be able to disagree without disrespecting each other . You have touched on something significant I believe . How many times does Jesus say something along the lines of : no man can receive this saying except those to whom it is given . This is a very important phrase in the Bible . The most important thing is , our faith in the work that the Son of God accomplished , he loved his Father more than anything and then loved us more than his own ( sinless ) life . Through his willing perfect sacrifice we are forgiven our sins and reconciled to our Dear Creator , the God of all . We must be very careful how we disagree with each other , personal spiteful aggressive attacks on members of our spiritual family , are deeply hurtful to our Saviour , he sees everything and expects us to be patient and affectionate to each other even if we believe someone is in error . We shall all see everything clearly in God's good time , in the mean time we are all on the same path , just at different stages of it and our life and therefore our learning . May God bless us all with ears to hear and eyes to see and open hearts and minds so that we keep growing in Him and not stagnating because we already think that we know everything , none of us does !
Every believer was called and has received gifts freely so we need understand that we are growing in our lives by faith and our works we do as natural extension of His grace. God sets Ezekiel as a watchman and by giving the word in the form of a roll he is to eat it. So it is the word that has to work. "And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear." This being the case we do according to the grace given and leave the Lord to deal with the rest. At the fag end of my life I work being confident that it is God who is in charge of my life.
We live in perilous times and the signs all are out. Weird climate, flashfloods, tornadoes wildfires makes breadbaskets blighted and plagues and pestilences ravage body and mind; those who made little of truth are fed by steady dose of misinformation and for those who rejected the truth the AI is a wakeup call. The imposter churches and their congregation shall have no hiding places except they receive the word of God as intended. Literalism has shown as inadequate. Knowing these I work to present daily what is revealed to me. So I leave it at that. With joy and peace in Him,
As promised, here is my take on Ezekiel 37 and the two sticks.
I take exactly what Ezekiel penned down in Ezekiel 37:16-21 and let verses 18 and 19 do the explaining.
"16) Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17) And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18) And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19) Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20) And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
This Chapter has to do with the future restoration of Israel which involves their national entity and their spiritual revival which the Lord announced in the previous chapter. Ezekiel 36:24-28.
Notice verse 22 of Ch 37. "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Chapter 36 should be studied along with chapter 37 where we have mention of a new heart and new spirit, the dry bones, and the two sticks to get the context.
It is getting late here, I will have to continue later, perhaps during the week.
You write, "I take exactly what Ezekiel penned down in Ezekiel 37:16-21/and let verses 18 and 19 do the explaining./16) Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions..."
I suspect all these confusion has arisen out of your own statement. You take exactly from Ezekiel as the last word on Israel as a Nation. Comparing spiritual with spiritual does not mean neglecting what the Spirit has laid out elsewhere and all these passages hold together in the Son and by him consist. (Col.1:15-19) Compare Ez.36/37 with Zec.11:14 "Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."
Much of the heresies in the present day churches owe to a lack of vision and unwillingness to acknowledge the fullness of God in his Son. Both worlds of the Spirit and the body are to be treated as one. Israel making a homeland by deceit and chicanery in 1948 is not according to the will of God. Ez.3:35-36 What peace are they enjoying?
Amen, brother, God's plan; for salvation to go to the Gentile's branches had to be broken off to make a way for us to be grafted in, Romans 11:11-33, this may be one of the reasons Jesus spoke in parables. The time may be near but once the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Israel will be grafted back in. God's plan is not complete until Israel is also grafted back into the people of God to share in the promises to Abraham. Whenever the Gentile's time is fulfilled, we see what comes next Revelation 19:11-21 they welcome and accept their King and the two sticks become one again and the Kingdom set up.
What does a new heart and new spirit mean? God created heaven and the earth. Ge.1:1 The new heaven and new earth in Re.21:1 is the same but seen with a new vision which can only be achieved through Jesus Christ. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Co.5:17)
There is no plan B with eternal God. So what does new heart and new spirit mean from the context of Israel and from the Book of Ezekiel? Israel failed with the Law of Moses and the tradition of their fathers. Only in Christ shall they reach that state.
What does New Jerusalem and Zion mean? They are finished in heaven. "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."(Re.21:2) What is shakeable shall be thrown out from heaven and the earth."And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain."(He.12:27)
When truth is presented and understood as such what point is in debate? You need have no worry.
It's evident today that they are still haven't accepted their Messiah and they're still without a King.
There is two stcks involved and they shall be joined and David shall be king over them. "Some say this will be literally David and others say Jesus" I believe it will be Jesus.
However we know neither is over there today. This is future.
Some say God broke those promises to Abraham because of Israel's disobedience or the promises was fulfilled at the cross.
If God was going to use Abraham to make a nation out of him, Note, (We're not talking about seed or Children, we're talking about Nation!)
The seed is Christ,
The Children is those which are of faith. and The Nation is Israel. "Our topic"
So, If God was going to use Abraham to make a Nation to make his name great amongst the nations and all those promises to Israel in the OT was "spiritually" a promise to the Church, and Israel was chosen to be the model and those promises wasn't for them why didn't God just use any other people like the Ismaelites or any other of Abraham's children descendants if they and the promises were figuratively?
There's promises of punishment if they disobey There is also promises of restoration that had nothing to do with obedience.
God's equity is in him bringing Israel back to their own Land and perform Romans 11:26.
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
I suppose you believe in dispensations and I do not. I believe God had blessed man in our image in his Son. The first seven days are seven bullet points in the everlasting covenant drawn up between God the Father and the Son. God's blessings (Ge.1:26-28) are irrevocable. His calling and gifts do not need any revision. By separating light from darkness in Ge.1:3 there are only two nations children of light and of darkness. The other conclusions of Israel as a nation is hogwash. "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."(Ac.20:32) Jesus Christ is our sanctification. (I Co.1:30). " For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,"(He.2:11,10) God blessed Abraham because of his faith and chose him as the heir of promise. "We're talking about Nation!" which is not Israel but those who were foreknown in his Son and obeyed.
"So, If God was going to use Abraham to make a Nation to make his name great amongst the nations and all those promises to Israel in the OT was "spiritually" a promise to the Church, and Israel was chosen to be the model and those promises wasn't for them why didn't God just use any other people like the Ismaelites or any other of Abraham's children descendants if they and the promises were figuratively?" You read wrongly God chose Israel "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"(Ep.1:4)
Restoration of Israel into their own land after their exiles show the long suffering God whose holiness shall not let Israel escape judgment. Without taking the worlds of the Spirit and of the body God has prepared one is sure to go wrong. The word sent out before the worlds shall not return to him void. History of Israel forms a part but as nation? Null.
Leviticus 26:32-33 is the condition Israel is in in Ezekiel 37.
Again judgment is much broader than the Babylonian captivity.
Deuteronomy 28:37 "And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among ALL NATIONS whither the LORD shall lead thee.
Deuteronomy 28:64-68.
"And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you"
This dispersion began when Roman destroyed Jerusalem 2000 years ago.
We have a regathering taking place here and we regard that as flesh on the bones but it shows up without the spirit as mentioned. ( Ezekiel 37:8.)
"And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: BUT THERE WAS NO BREATH IN THEM.
This is their current condition.
Verse 12, Is a ressurection of the Nation.
Ezekiel 37:12. "Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, ( AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.)
Ezekiel 36:26 reads, "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh"
You said,
"Israel failed with the Law of Moses and the tradition of their fathers. Only in Christ shall they reach that state"
Israel wasn't able to reach that state under the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law wasn't given for that purpose!
Ezekiel and Jeremiah states that God was going to do something NEW!
Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Ezekiel 11:19-20.
Ezekiel 36:26-27.
The Spirit within represents a NEW birth. The Law and the Prophet's taught this
Jesus counseled Nicodemus on this in
John 3:5-10.
Nicodemus was expected to Know this being that he was a Teacher of Israel.
The interpretation of the sticks is in passage. Ezekiel 37:16-21.
The two sticks represent the southern and the Northern Kingdom as mentioned.
Also, they will be gathered from every side and brought back into their own land.
Let's take Ezekiel 36 and Ezekiel 37 and put them in its proper context.
There's mention of a new heart and new spirit.
The dry bones.
The two sticks.
Their gathering.
and their own Land.
Ezekiel is writing during the captivity of Babylon but his writings extends past the captivity on into the latter days as do Daniel and Jeremiah.
Judgment of Israel is of a much broader scope than the Babylonian captivity.
We find that in Deuteronomy 28:37 ,64-68.
It's important to note that this dispersion is global, Not Babylon.
Also the gathering Ezekiel is talking about is global and exceeds Babylon.
This is a second gathering! Isaiah 11:9-12.
Isaiah 43:5-6.
When you read this you'll see that it has never happened.
They still have a heart of stone.
Some look at Israel today and say this must be the Church but "in those days" there is more to consider here than just the New heart concerning this prophecy.
Israel and the Gentiles are of equal weight. God as the Creator does not play favourites. The birth of Pharez and Zarah shows it. "behold, twins were in her womb./And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first./ And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez./ And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah."(Ge.38:27-30) The scarlet thread shows redemption foreshadowing the Advent of Christ. Phares came out first. Remember the principe. The first shall be last and the last first. "But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."(Matt.19:30)
While interpreting passages one golden rule is that principles relating to the Word, Holiness of Godand the Son do not change. two sticks in Ezekiel have another meaning in Ze.11:10 "And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people." Next to it mention of thirty pieces of silver also is equally significanct. it is of the Son we are considering.
The two sticks were to be come as one. In the inaugural vision of Jesus Christ, the seven stars are the angels. Seven churches signify the body of Christ. Taken together both worlds of the Spirit and of the body are represented in these twosticks. in v.17 we have the house of Israel and also her companions. Companions denote angels. The mercy seat in the tabernacle of the wilderness also allowed their presence. Jesus sent his disciples two by two ("After these things theLordappointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come"-.Luke.10:1) signifyingthat they were preaching the gospel by themselves. The angels representing them were witnesses to their souls."And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet./Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city." (Matt.10:14-15)
Part 2.
This section is not pointing fingers towards you are anyone in particular.
Deuteronomy 7:6-8 is a portion of scripture that has made an envious world hate the Jews and sadly some of the body of Christ has been compromised by this evil.
"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt"
Verse 6 is what they take issue with. "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, ABOVE ALL PEOPLE THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH"
Some would like to have this said about them, so they render this to the Church.
However, be at ease the church was not in the world when this verse was given,
And the Church is never called people of the earth or earth dwellers.
However, If I'm wrong and God chooses them over the Church, he has the right to do so, it's his creation.
Deuteronomy 7:7-8 emphasizes God's elect! He didn't choose them for any particular reason. It is not the Church.
The Church was never redeemed out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Israel is part of God's plan of salvation explained in Romans 11:11-33.
I find it amazing that the same people who say you can't be saved by the law of Moses "and rightfully so"
They acknowledge scriptures like 2 Corinthians 3:6-7 Galatians 3:19-25 when defending their own imperfections but say Israel failed because they couldn't.
God bless.
Part 1
Zechariah ch 11 hinges on the first coming of Christ. It emphasizes the rejection of Christ.
Zechariah 11:14 "Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
This happened when Israel rejected their Messiah, and the veil was rent from top to bottom. Later the Romans came in and destroyed Jerusalem.
Then came the scattering.
Ezekiel is emphasizing the regathering and Spiritual revival.
As of now they are blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
In 2 Corinthians 3:14-16. Paul says "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Also here in Romans 11.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The veil on the heart and blindness Paul is speaking of in these two books.
Verse 16 of the Corinthians passage says "Nevertheless WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, the vail shall be taken away.
When what shall turn to the Lord?
Their "Stony" heart!
This will be done away with when God puts his spirit in them spoken of by Ezekiel and Jeremiah.
Now most agree the Church started and the Jews and Gentiles were put into one body by the Ressurection of Christ.
But here in Romans and Corinthians Paul is speaking of a future event.
See part 2
I merely wanted to show that symbols used change according to the context so Israel as a nation was rejected when the lion in the night vision of Daniel was plucked and made to stand like man. "and a man's heart was given to it."(Dan.7:4) Monarchial system has been done away with and man's heart sets Jesus in the direct frame of reference. Where does that leave Israel? Their dominion has been taken away. This is night vision and this clue, " In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon" tells us that we are looking at the divine Mind. "As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."(7:12) Instead vv.13-14 conform the holy city of God descending from heaven. ("And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end," Re.21:1-6) Alpha and Omega refers to the Son fulfilling the divine Will of the Father. Not David but Jesus Christ the king of kings. In Daniel's vision he is given dominion, glory and a kingdom. This is set in heaven and it is where he is established. Ps.2:6-7
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
With regards to Israel as a nation this verse says with finality: "And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down."( 2 Ki.21:13)
A remnant of Israel will be included once they realize their error and come to him in genuine repentance. Their error was in not accepting the spiritual aspect of Messiah and the spiritual kingdom.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
I completely disagree with everything you sated in this section!
This is where we depart in this discussion.
Thanks, and may the Lord bless you.
Right to disagree is your privilege. Among brethren only truth can cement the brotherliness. If I were to please you I would not be serving truth that I understand as given to me by the grace of God. "John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." I believe it is so. I would rather please God than please man.
With joy and peace in Him,
I accidentally sent that message before I finished.
I wanted to agree with Jema, ww should be able to have these discussions peacefully, not dwell on the past and push forward.
God bless you.
We both claim to present the truth and most of the time we can sort it out but I believe we use different means of interpretation, so that would make it nearly impossible on this topic.
I will be sharing more of my thoughts on this later.
Every believer was called and has received gifts freely so we need understand that we are growing in our lives by faith and our works we do as natural extension of His grace. God sets Ezekiel as a watchman and by giving the word in the form of a roll he is to eat it. So it is the word that has to work. "And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear." This being the case we do according to the grace given and leave the Lord to deal with the rest. At the fag end of my life I work being confident that it is God who is in charge of my life.
We live in perilous times and the signs all are out. Weird climate, flashfloods, tornadoes wildfires makes breadbaskets blighted and plagues and pestilences ravage body and mind; those who made little of truth are fed by steady dose of misinformation and for those who rejected the truth the AI is a wakeup call. The imposter churches and their congregation shall have no hiding places except they receive the word of God as intended. Literalism has shown as inadequate. Knowing these I work to present daily what is revealed to me. So I leave it at that. With joy and peace in Him,
Bare with me and my slow responses.
I'm multitasking.
I'm at work.
I will try to get part 2 to you later today.
Thanks and God bless.
As promised, here is my take on Ezekiel 37 and the two sticks.
I take exactly what Ezekiel penned down in Ezekiel 37:16-21 and let verses 18 and 19 do the explaining.
"16) Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17) And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18) And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19) Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20) And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
This Chapter has to do with the future restoration of Israel which involves their national entity and their spiritual revival which the Lord announced in the previous chapter. Ezekiel 36:24-28.
Notice verse 22 of Ch 37. "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Chapter 36 should be studied along with chapter 37 where we have mention of a new heart and new spirit, the dry bones, and the two sticks to get the context.
It is getting late here, I will have to continue later, perhaps during the week.
God bless.
You write, "I take exactly what Ezekiel penned down in Ezekiel 37:16-21/and let verses 18 and 19 do the explaining./16) Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions..."
I suspect all these confusion has arisen out of your own statement. You take exactly from Ezekiel as the last word on Israel as a Nation. Comparing spiritual with spiritual does not mean neglecting what the Spirit has laid out elsewhere and all these passages hold together in the Son and by him consist. (Col.1:15-19) Compare Ez.36/37 with Zec.11:14 "Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."
Much of the heresies in the present day churches owe to a lack of vision and unwillingness to acknowledge the fullness of God in his Son. Both worlds of the Spirit and the body are to be treated as one. Israel making a homeland by deceit and chicanery in 1948 is not according to the will of God. Ez.3:35-36 What peace are they enjoying?
Amen, brother, God's plan; for salvation to go to the Gentile's branches had to be broken off to make a way for us to be grafted in, Romans 11:11-33, this may be one of the reasons Jesus spoke in parables. The time may be near but once the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Israel will be grafted back in. God's plan is not complete until Israel is also grafted back into the people of God to share in the promises to Abraham. Whenever the Gentile's time is fulfilled, we see what comes next Revelation 19:11-21 they welcome and accept their King and the two sticks become one again and the Kingdom set up.
God bless,
RLW
that is the way I see it.
Blessings.
Re.Ez:36:26-27
What does a new heart and new spirit mean? God created heaven and the earth. Ge.1:1 The new heaven and new earth in Re.21:1 is the same but seen with a new vision which can only be achieved through Jesus Christ. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Co.5:17)
There is no plan B with eternal God. So what does new heart and new spirit mean from the context of Israel and from the Book of Ezekiel? Israel failed with the Law of Moses and the tradition of their fathers. Only in Christ shall they reach that state.
What does New Jerusalem and Zion mean? They are finished in heaven. "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."(Re.21:2) What is shakeable shall be thrown out from heaven and the earth."And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain."(He.12:27)
When truth is presented and understood as such what point is in debate? You need have no worry.
It's evident today that they are still haven't accepted their Messiah and they're still without a King.
There is two stcks involved and they shall be joined and David shall be king over them. "Some say this will be literally David and others say Jesus" I believe it will be Jesus.
However we know neither is over there today. This is future.
Some say God broke those promises to Abraham because of Israel's disobedience or the promises was fulfilled at the cross.
If God was going to use Abraham to make a nation out of him, Note, (We're not talking about seed or Children, we're talking about Nation!)
The seed is Christ,
The Children is those which are of faith. and The Nation is Israel. "Our topic"
So, If God was going to use Abraham to make a Nation to make his name great amongst the nations and all those promises to Israel in the OT was "spiritually" a promise to the Church, and Israel was chosen to be the model and those promises wasn't for them why didn't God just use any other people like the Ismaelites or any other of Abraham's children descendants if they and the promises were figuratively?
There's promises of punishment if they disobey There is also promises of restoration that had nothing to do with obedience.
God's equity is in him bringing Israel back to their own Land and perform Romans 11:26.
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
God bless
I suppose you believe in dispensations and I do not. I believe God had blessed man in our image in his Son. The first seven days are seven bullet points in the everlasting covenant drawn up between God the Father and the Son. God's blessings (Ge.1:26-28) are irrevocable. His calling and gifts do not need any revision. By separating light from darkness in Ge.1:3 there are only two nations children of light and of darkness. The other conclusions of Israel as a nation is hogwash. "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."(Ac.20:32) Jesus Christ is our sanctification. (I Co.1:30). " For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,"(He.2:11,10) God blessed Abraham because of his faith and chose him as the heir of promise. "We're talking about Nation!" which is not Israel but those who were foreknown in his Son and obeyed.
"So, If God was going to use Abraham to make a Nation to make his name great amongst the nations and all those promises to Israel in the OT was "spiritually" a promise to the Church, and Israel was chosen to be the model and those promises wasn't for them why didn't God just use any other people like the Ismaelites or any other of Abraham's children descendants if they and the promises were figuratively?" You read wrongly God chose Israel "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"(Ep.1:4)
Restoration of Israel into their own land after their exiles show the long suffering God whose holiness shall not let Israel escape judgment. Without taking the worlds of the Spirit and of the body God has prepared one is sure to go wrong. The word sent out before the worlds shall not return to him void. History of Israel forms a part but as nation? Null.
Part 2.
Leviticus 26:32-33 is the condition Israel is in in Ezekiel 37.
Again judgment is much broader than the Babylonian captivity.
Deuteronomy 28:37 "And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among ALL NATIONS whither the LORD shall lead thee.
Deuteronomy 28:64-68.
"And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you"
This dispersion began when Roman destroyed Jerusalem 2000 years ago.
We have a regathering taking place here and we regard that as flesh on the bones but it shows up without the spirit as mentioned. ( Ezekiel 37:8.)
"And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: BUT THERE WAS NO BREATH IN THEM.
This is their current condition.
Verse 12, Is a ressurection of the Nation.
Ezekiel 37:12. "Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, ( AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.)
See part 3.
Pt 1
Ezekiel 36:26 reads, "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh"
You said,
"Israel failed with the Law of Moses and the tradition of their fathers. Only in Christ shall they reach that state"
Israel wasn't able to reach that state under the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law wasn't given for that purpose!
Ezekiel and Jeremiah states that God was going to do something NEW!
Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Ezekiel 11:19-20.
Ezekiel 36:26-27.
The Spirit within represents a NEW birth. The Law and the Prophet's taught this
Jesus counseled Nicodemus on this in
John 3:5-10.
Nicodemus was expected to Know this being that he was a Teacher of Israel.
The interpretation of the sticks is in passage. Ezekiel 37:16-21.
The two sticks represent the southern and the Northern Kingdom as mentioned.
Also, they will be gathered from every side and brought back into their own land.
Let's take Ezekiel 36 and Ezekiel 37 and put them in its proper context.
There's mention of a new heart and new spirit.
The dry bones.
The two sticks.
Their gathering.
and their own Land.
Ezekiel is writing during the captivity of Babylon but his writings extends past the captivity on into the latter days as do Daniel and Jeremiah.
Judgment of Israel is of a much broader scope than the Babylonian captivity.
We find that in Deuteronomy 28:37 ,64-68.
It's important to note that this dispersion is global, Not Babylon.
Also the gathering Ezekiel is talking about is global and exceeds Babylon.
This is a second gathering! Isaiah 11:9-12.
Isaiah 43:5-6.
When you read this you'll see that it has never happened.
They still have a heart of stone.
Some look at Israel today and say this must be the Church but "in those days" there is more to consider here than just the New heart concerning this prophecy.
look at the previous verses. Isaiah 11:6-9.
See pt 2.
Israel and the Gentiles are of equal weight. God as the Creator does not play favourites. The birth of Pharez and Zarah shows it. "behold, twins were in her womb./And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first./ And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez./ And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah."(Ge.38:27-30) The scarlet thread shows redemption foreshadowing the Advent of Christ. Phares came out first. Remember the principe. The first shall be last and the last first. "But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."(Matt.19:30)
While interpreting passages one golden rule is that principles relating to the Word, Holiness of Godand the Son do not change. two sticks in Ezekiel have another meaning in Ze.11:10 "And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people." Next to it mention of thirty pieces of silver also is equally significanct. it is of the Son we are considering.
Not to debate you on your beliefs but I've been trying to make some time to give my take on Ezekiel 37.
I believe in these days concerning Israel's present state, it is good topic.
Hopefully I will share some tonight.
God bless.
It is a good topic I await your reply.
God bless,
RLW
It's not a difficult passage of scriptures and explains itself and is pretty straight forward in my opinion.
Blessings.
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