Bible Discussion Thread

"If you seek God, my best advice is to move away from the bronze age and look more closely at the things that make us a unique species and leave behind you the fear and guilt of man made, self serving religion." This has been made almost impossible to do by the scientific community b/c people who believe the Bible will want to find a way to relate science to God and in the religion of Science, there is no God. Science is god. According to secular scientists, the two are mutually exclusive. That is why there are so many atheists in modern science (look at Richard Dawkins for example). How can you "find God" through modern science if it specifically excludes God?

Also, there are REAL scientists out there searching for Biblical truth and how it relates to science. Unfortunately they are usually ostracized by the secular scientific community or branded as quacks, and phonies. The scientific community refuses to see the possibilities of their dating techniques, etc. simply because they do not agree with what they've decided is consensus. This is bad scientific practice.

Scientists are supposed to be open to new science, even if it contradicts current thinking. Most often it is how revolutions and new discoveries are made in scientific theory. Modern secular scientists are closed-off to any science that disagrees with their theories. It is either ignored or summarily dismissed. In their view, theories are to be tested, but if the science fails the prevailing theory, don't keep searching, throw it out. That is the opposite of the OBJECTIVE of scientific theory. How ironic.

Religious institutions and "tradition" ARE EXACTLY man-made self serving religion. I agree with you. They are the creation of humans, not God, and therefore they are fallible, and many times (most times) get things wrong. Jesus wouldn't (and doesn't) agree with that. He wouldn't stand for religious holy wars, and persecution of people of other religions. Jesus came in love to humanity and preached love. Love your neighbor (fellow humans) as yourself. Turn the other cheek. This was very different than the Old Testament "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" way of doing things, and animal sacrifices to make us clean before God.

Jesus revolutionized our relationship with God as humans, but religious institutions and traditions, specifically Catholic teachings, cover that up, and even deny the personal nature of God's relationship with humans. They declare you can't access God without their priests', Virgin Mary's, and saints' intermediation, etc. But Jesus declared HE was the intermediator for us and God. He said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father, but through ME." John 14:6

Christianity before it was politicized and institutionalized by Constantine and the Roman empire, was very different. The first generations of Christians showed Jesus' spirit of humility, meekness, and LOVE for their enemies by allowing themselves to be sacrificed by the thousands before Roman mobs and in other places throughout the known world. They also showed an unwavering and courageous loyalty to Christ; enough to allow their physical bodies to be martyred simply because they believed in Him. Not for glory, but b/c they were CHANGED by Christ being in their lives and new a better life awaited them.

If you don't believe in man-made religious institutions, then I challenge you to find the REAL Christianity, one created by Christ himself and his example. If you are openminded and seeking Truth, you will find it. Don't close yourself off to the Truth, or even the possibility of the Truth because of the failures of humans and the institutions they have created (guided perhaps unknowingly, though sometimes on purpose, by Satan). It takes a much bigger person, and more personal spiritual searching, to find the truth of Jesus and how it applies us personally, than to dismiss it off-hand b/c other people have failed. Find answers for YOURSELF. Don't believe those institutions. Humans may fail you, but God will never fail you.

In the end an excuse of choosing not to believe at ALL b/c some versions of Christianity were perverted by men (or even b/c you were misled by those men!) will not hold water. You must take responsibility for yourself. Life in Christ is a personal spiritual journey each person must make for themselves. I can not make it for my husband, my children, my sister, my neighbor, my parishioner, my father, my mother-in-law etc. Whatever the case, each person must decide for his or herself, where they stand with God. In the end it will be YOU in front of God as Judge, and you will only be able to answer for yourself. There will be no excuses.

Do not rejoice in it, but know that those who mislead others spiritually, and those who are themselves misled will not be accepted by God. Everything I have been writing about being misled by man-made religions is perfectly summed up by Matthew 7:15-23. "15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."