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Jesus told the women in Samaria clearly that God's essential nature is that of pure Spirit. He has no earthly or physical matter as we have and all of creation has. We know that angels and the heavenly hosts are of celestial substance, not earthly. Yet, I do not think that the pure Spirit of God is the same as the substance of their nature. No created being can have the same essential nature as God has. Since God is pure Spirit and exists without any hindrance from any form of matter or substance He created, He can be everywhere present at once. Yet Scripture does say that the Father dwells in unapproachable light, so He must have uniqueness in His living existence that is beyond what has been created.
Since God is only Spirit, he is not composed of parts or different things that are combined to make His Being. If this was so, then He would be dependent on these components for His existence. He said He is altogether NOT like us. ( Ps. 50:21). We should not think He is anything like anything He has made. He is altogether different in essence, nature, and existence as pure Spirit.
God knows man, man doesn't now God, however we do know something about God (..."we know in part...) and a believer can learn more and more about God.
"Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding." Isaiah 40:28 KJV
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD." Isaiah 55:8 KJV
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:9 KJV
People might feel if a person knows us or gets us we should know them or get them, however, with God that does not apply, He created us...
God lets us know in His word that we should fear Him. Due to man's human condition or carnal nature we don't even realize that we need to fear the Lord.
"Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling." Psalms 2:11 KJV
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23 KJV
"...I never knew you.." this scripture implies that souls are actually going to go before God thinking they knew Him and His ways and won't realize that until they actually transition and then will understand that they didn't God at all. (this let's us know we need God's help to learn about Him in our personal journey, and God can and will help us)
"Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, ... Isaiah 55:6 (also Psalms 27:4)
This is a learning way, "God created us in His image" when a believer accepts the Holy Spirit then a Christ mind can be developed in a believer, so that the believer can learn what God is requiring of that particular believer. A believer knows what they know about God because the Lord has provided the knowledge, wisdom and understanding, all our understanding comes from God. God loves us and wants man (whom God created to be like Him). It takes time to be holy.
I certainly respect your desire honor God by using the version of the Bible that you believe is not only aesthetically beautiful but also the product of divine re-inspiration, and therefore is the authoritative translation of the Bible. As you are probably aware the Greek manuscript used by the scholars to translate the 1611 version is known as the Textus Receptus, originally assembled by Erasmus from seven Byzantine manuscripts that were missing a portion of the Book of Revelation. In fact, Erasmus had to translate the Latin Vulgate back into Greek to create the missing portion of the Greek text.
Since 1611 many older and more reliable manuscripts have been discovered. When taken in their entirety, they provide a much closer rendering of the original words of the New Testament authors than that approximated in the Textus Receptus. And therefore, they enable a more accurate translation of the original words inspired by the Holy Spirit into the vernacular of the modern reader of the English language.
The original purpose of creating the 1611 translation was to bring the words of the Bible into the vernacular of the English-speaking people. Whether or not we agree on the accuracy of the underlying manuscripts of the King James Version, we can certainly agree that Elizabethan English is no longer the vernacular of the day and is not accessible or intelligible for most modern readers. If the goal of reading scripture is to first get saved, then to grow in sanctification to live a life pleasing to God, and then to learn more about God's expectation for His people, isn't wise to access the most accurate translation of the Bible that most easy to read and comprehend?
Thank you for your message . I'm a middle aged high school graduate who never went to college , I can understand the KJB perfectly . I don't find it to be inaccessible or intelligible and I'm not the only one , it isn't a foreign language . Which version would you say is the most accurate translation ? And , how do you know that it is ? I don't mean to sound combative so please forgive me if I do but I'm genuinely interested to know which version you think is the most accurate .
Your comments are of course; well thought out and-if I wanted to corner you on an issue it would be next to impossible (not that I'd want to do that).
As to creating anything in God's image; that I think speaks to your original point in that God has uniqueness in His essense that can't be properly duplicated. It also would be inferior any image man makes of Him. Such is the case perhaps with the Shroud of Turin; which is another "can of worms" so to speak. My point is that even if we get a fair comprehension of what Jesus actually looked like we need to see Him as Peter did when inspired by the Spirit He said that Jesus was the Son of God; and of course "doubting Thomas" also believed without actually having to touch Jesus after his request Post Resurrection. (He said "my Lord and my God") To worship Jesus as a great prophet or sage even when on earth was dangerous and without recognizing who He really was through the Spirit resulted in eternal separation from God. I would use John 16:8 once again here in examining the role of the Holy Spirit to show us who Christ truly was. Without the Spirit and such knowledge man is reduced to his own concept of who Christ was; the essense of what he taught (as a bunch of "do good" moral statements such as would be interpreted with the Sermon on the Mount or perhaps the 10 Commandments. Man also would do as some I won't mention by name and attempt to separate the God of the Old Testament and His ways from what the New Covenant represents.
This likely feeds into this lukewarm; feel good Jesus who of course was loved by all and never said anything divisive.
Back to the main idea. I would suggest that man's best attempt to make an image or portrait of Christ would likely instead draw Satan himself. The fact is without spiritual discernment we cannot differentiate between the shining one (Lucifer) or his angels and God and His angels. Perhaps this is beyond what you intended with this subject..so carry on.
Also, those who deny the Trintiy doctrine also separate the oneness of God by citing Scriptures that say that the Father is the one true God and that Jesus is the one Lord, and that the Spirit comes from the Father (which to them means that he is an emanation but not a distinct person). However, that is not the way the apostalic churches believed. They were known to the Romans as people who worshipped a crucified man. They sang hymns of praise to Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit. The apostle Paul used these "doxologies" as in 2 Cor. 13:14, Eph. 4:4-6; Phil. 4:19-20; Col. 1:2-3; 1Thess. 1:1-3: 1 Tim. 1:1-2; 1Tim. 6:13-16; Rom. 16:24-27: Eph. 1:3; any many others to exalt the triune Godhead, not to delienate Jesus and the Spirit as being less than divine or separate beings from the Father. That was not the teaching of the early church. Paul used these various blessings, benedictions, doxologies, and prayers to emphasize the oneness of God who was a tri-unity.
Paul's strict Pharisaical upbringing would have made him strictly avoid associating Jesus and the Holy Spirit with God; but as a born again person and after spending many years in the desert learning from Jesus and the Spirit, he shed the Jewish concept of God and instead adhered to honoring and loving the Son as He does the Father, and believing and obeying the Spirit as he would the Father.
John's long career as an apostles brought him to a firm stand on the deity of Jesus and the Spirit, as his Gospel and Epistles clearly show.
I so wish I could read and understand Greek so I could learn the depth of meaning in the NT as our English language does fall short of using exact terms to match the Greek terms and meanings.
Hopefully, Giannis and Jesse will return here soon and help us with Greek.
Take care Richard. Thanks for responding to my posts. I do read yours and ponder them. How good it is that we have each other on here to share and grow together.
As to the Spirit, Jesus said that He will take from Jesus what is His (Jesus') and reveal it unto the disciples. ( Jn. 16:14) and then said in vs. 15 that "all things that the Father has are mine."
No one can take (share, or possess) what belongs to God but God No one can possess ALL that God is in His essence but God. So, both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are equally divine persons with the Father. What did Jesus "take" from the Father? He did not take any essence from the Father because He and the Spirit possessed this eternally with the Father. But there are some things that were given to the Son and the Spirit from the Father. These verses simply point out that Jesus and the Spirit have all that the Father is in divine essence, but they have different roles as distinct persons.
The other point that comes to mind on this topic is that Jn. 5:21-23-Jesus says that the Father raises the dead and quickens them AND that He (Jesus), even so (just as the Father), quickens whom He wills. That the Father judges no man, but the Father has committed all judgment to the Son. That all men should honor the Son, even (the same as) they honor the Father He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which has sent Him. (Again one more instance where Jesus is teaching that He is equal with the Father in divinity and is to be worshipped as the Father is worshipped.)
Jesus teaches that He and the Father are one-meaning unified. ( Jn. 10:30) which the Jews took Him to say He is equal with God.
And in Jn 15:23 Jesus says that he who hateth Him (Jesus) hateth the Father. Again claiming oneness and equal standing as the Father.
Though some who deny the Trinity doctrine will bring up many verses that seem to refute this, but often the verses are referring to Jesus' status as a human person, not concerning His deity.
The deity of Jesus was defended again and again even before the death of all of the apostles and into the ensuing centuries.
As my post on His deity shows, Scripture clearly teaches that He is a divine person in the Godhead as the Father is. There were many other Scriptural references I could have used but I believe that I gave plenty to make the point of what has been taught of Him since the time of the apostles and what He actually said of Himself.
So, too, with the Holy Spirit. He is a divine person of the Godhead.
People who do not believe that God is a trinity of persons can cite many biblical verses that seem to say that the Father is the only one God and that Jesus is just "the Lord" but not God. Some say Jesus is not God because it seems that the Bible say that He was a creation. But the eternal existence of Jesus, the Son, is well documented in the Bible. Some say that the Holy Spirit is only God's power in action, thus making Him just a force or emanation from God, yet in so many Scriptures the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all spoken of as distinct persons using pronouns such as I, You, Me, We, Us, Him, He, His, My.
As to image making, Scripture does say that Jesus ascended to heaven in His human body and remains there as God and Man. Therefore, The human nature/body of Jesus is the only physical image of God we will see in the eternal state. But I do believe we will see angel and other spiritual beings in that state. Whether or not we will be given the ability to see the Father and the
Spirit in their actual essential form I cannot find Scripture that speaks of that. But we may be given that ability as part of our glorification. I guess I feel that being satisfied with truly and actually seeing Jesus in a physical way will be completely satisfying and sufficient for me because He clearly said that "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father"; that Jesus is the express image of the invisible Father".
Sorry to crash your study series but wanted to clarify a few things.
There were; as you know several times that Christ was said to appear in His Preincarnate form in the Old Testament. Whether it was God Himself or Christ can be a tricky affair. We also see indications that God indeed has eyes; ears; and smell as humans do in various passages. We also have Christ; Post Resurrection who now in a glorified body still has the marks from His crucifixion since he saw no decay as the prophecies indicate ( Psalm 16:10 also stating that He wouldn't remain in Sheol). I suppose in summation we could say that since He created man in His image there are some things that would appear similar; albeit His unique position as Deity.
I suppose one could surmise how we will appear in our glorified bodies. I have stated how interesting it is that only He will have any marks on His body as opposed to anyone else in heaven.
As to Him not being dependent on anything or anyone; I suppose I could look at the Trinity as a concept and say that there is a sort of interdependence there. Christ could do nothing at least on His earthly ministry; God was to exalt Him in time and basically delegate ruling over the earth even though of course Christ was involved with the Creation in the first place. Of course God had to remain in heaven at that time; or the whole universe would cease to exist. The Holy Spirit; of course works as comforter and convicting men of sin as well as reminding us of all He taught us. Perhaps we could say that the Holy Ghost has no body or substance even like the Father and Son.
Anyway I don't want to cause any difficulty here in you communicating your message. (Just thought of another corroborating text in the sixth seal of Revelation where the world hides from He who sits on the Throne and the wrath of the Lamb (Christ).
I guess I am being difficult. I can avoid commenting if you prefer as I realize there ain't much I can say you don't know already.
God had to stay in heaven during Christ's time of humanity. Is that what you meant? If it is please explain why. Heaven isn't a "place " it's when our soul is in His presence; God is heaven. He is omnipresent so how can He not be somewhere and since Christ was God incarnet I guess He was there. God Bless :) Bye the way, anyone is welcome to post anytime on this site so you didn't crash anyone else's post, especially the one's who make numerous posts one after the other.
In many ways I agree with you that God is heaven (eternal life) and being in His presence is what we will be so happy to abide in in the life to come. Heaven as a place would not be desirable to believers if God is not preset there.
I also remember that Jesus told the apostles that He was going to prepare a place for them in His "Father's house".( John 14:2)
So, if Jesus was speaking literally, then there is a place called heaven. If He was speaking figuratively, then He is most likely indicating that this place is where ever Jesus is because in Him all the Godhead dwells bodily.
It is hard to truly imagine what heaven as a place would be like, but we can readily imagine what heaven as being in God's Presence may be like in some ways. The Bible tells us so much about who God is, so we can be assured that being "in" Christ for all eternity will be so very satisfying and wonderful.
Good to hear from you. I hope we can talk more often. God bless you this day. My first grandchild will be born sometime in the next 10 days or so. I am excited and feel honored to have been asked to attend and be my daughter-in-law's support person along with my son. Please pray for everything to go well with the labor and delivery. Thanks
Hello. I am not sure if answering these questions will create a lot more or not.
It seems you have two questions. The first is; unfortunately true as what I was saying at the time Christ was in the grave that God the Father was in heaven. Let me attempt to repharase it; as you bring up God's omnipresence. In God's mind the future is already in the past; hence all prophecy is a "done deal" as it were at least to what was clearly fulfilled by Christ. In the cross; Christ was brought to the earth in human form; thus had to have; more or less the limitations we all have as man in order to die in our place. So I suppose we could say that He came from a timeless dimension to one confined by time; as well as one that confined him in human flesh and necessitated His death at a certain place in a certain way to fulfill these prophecies. At this point to be more precise; once He said "it is finished" He would have sealed the victory and thus was back to an immortal existence. He had to preach to those who were disobedient in Sheol as well as those fallen angels imprisoned under the earth; then release the captive souls who until that time could not go directly into God's presence. His sacrifice therefore was fully efficacious for them; so that they could be atoned for. I can reference the verses in Peter and Jude etc.; I have done this before so feel it isn't necessary. The key factor here is that SIN (ours) is what forced Him for that brief time on the cross to be separated from the Father since God cannot look on sin (Habukkuk 1:13) He had to turn away from His Son as part of a predetermined plan (see Deut. 29:29).
As to heaven; I take the descriptions in Revelation 22 as literal; there are undoubtably other verses expressing these things such as Psalm 48. The earthly temple was a shadow of the real thing ( Heb. 8:5) thus parameters were very specific. I could do a study on this at some point.
It's as I said being in heaven is being in God's presence no matter how that looks and since Jesus and God are one He was on earth as Jesus. However, if you are someone who doesn't accept the Trinity then I can understand your comments. God Bless :)
AS to your thought about the persons of the Trinity being interdependent on each other, this is true. What I was stating that God is not dependent on anyone or anything outside of His Being. Yet within the Being of God there is relational interdependence the persons in an eternal way. The Father would not be Father without the Son, and the Word would not be the Son without the Father. The Spirit would not be spirated (breathed out) from the Father and the Son if the Father and the Son did not exist or did not choose to spirate him. There would not be love and agreement exchanged in the Being of God if there were only one person. But there is only one God-He is One in Being but three in persons who are eternally united as One-echad in Hebrew.
Another way to view His Being is that the three persons are interrelated to one another (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) interpenetrated in one another (I am in the Father ad He is in me. The Spirit will dwell in believers and the Father and the Son will dwell also) and integrated with one another inaction in the one Being of God.
Your comments do not cause any difficulty. I purposely did not include information on Jesus humanity because I was speaking only to His divinity in the Godhead in my posts on Him being God. I agree that He is forever God and man in one person and that He will forever have a human body with His scars but glorified as our bodies will be in the eternal state.
Also, when the Bible speaks of God seeing, hearing, and smelling and any other sensing as a body made of matter will do, the Bible is speaking anthropomorphically so that we can understand Him more easily. Can God take on an appearance of having a body? Yes, He did so in the Old Testament times with Abraham and Jacob, Isaiah and Ezekiel and Daniel. But these forms are not what God is eternally like. He is Spirit, but able to make Himself visible to mankind as having a body.
For God in His essence to have a body eternally would interfere with his limitless, infinite, boundless Being. He is not limited by time, space, or matter. But as a Spirit, does He have a permanent form? His commandment to not make any physical representation of Him is one clue that He does not. Does He have an image as it says we were made in His image? I really cannot say that He does or does not eternally in His essence, but since He eternally chose for the Son to become man, this knowledge would avail Him to make ma in the image of the Son made man.
Thanks for bringing this up. In trying to stick with the topic and not go sideways into other biblical aspects, it will inevitably leave some truths unstated or unexplained. I believe that we will see God in Jesus. Whether we will see the Father alongside Jesus, it seems that Jesus said that He was in the Father and the Father was in Him and that if one sees Jesus they are seeing the Father.
This is unfortunately a drawback to singling out aspects of God's Being because He is a unified whole. Some have said that He is His attributes. They are not something He acquires or changes
Hi GiGi: It is good to be back to posting again. I hope all is well with your daughter-in-law and the baby. I know the thrill of having grandchildren, I have nine and my first great-grandchild was born a few months ago. Her family lives in Alaska and I'm in Tennessee so I haven't seen her in person yet.
I have enjoyed reading the comments between you and Richard about the Godhead. They are pretty good, however, you said something I don't understand. You might be totally correct about it, I never thought of it before but what did you mean when you said " He will forever have a human body." I know His scars were visible when He walked on earth before He ascended into Heaven but then didn't He go back to being God without anything "human" being a part of Him as God? God is a spirit or else how could He be all knowing, all powerful and everywhere at all times so how does a human body fit into that? These are honest questions because, as I said, I've never heard of this before.
Also, I probably misunderstood you, but it seemed in one of your other postings you indicated Paul sat under the teachings of Jesus during His earthly ministry; "but as a born again person and after spending many years in the desert learning from Jesus and the Spirit." This is what i am talking about. God Bless :)
We know that Jesus is forever our high priest and mediator between mankind and the Father. ( Heb. 510; 6:20; 8:6; 1 Tim. 2:5.
The doctrine that Jesus will forever remain God and man is commonly held doctrine throughout the centuries. If you have not heard of it, perhaps you can try to learn more about it historically before dismissing it.
At Jesus' ascension, the angels told the disciples that Jesus would return in the SAME manner as He ascended. This not only means "on the clouds" but in the same body.
As to your second concern about Jesus being everywhere present. His divine nature is not confined to within His human body. As the divine Son of God, He can be everywhere present because He always has the divine spirit nature as the Father and Holy Spirit.
He told the disciples that He would always be with them, EACH of them individually. ( Mt. 28:20) He said that the Father and the Son will come and make their abode in the believer who loves God and obeys His commands. ( Jn. 14:2). Jesus' divine nature is limitless, but His human nature, though glorified is limited. He can live as God in His human nature AND also fill the universe as His Father and the Spirit can. His divine nature can be everywhere present but His human nature is limited. Jesus sits on the throne in heaven as "God made flesh" and also abides in every believer in His divine nature.
As the your third concern about Paul's instruction. He was many years in the Arabian desert where he was given the gospel message from the risen Jesus Himself (see Galatians 1:11-17; 1Cor. 11:23).
I'm sorry GiGi but frankly what you've said in this comment is the most unbelievable stuff I've ever heard in my 50 years of being a Christian. Jesus DIDN'T have a human nature because He wasn't born of man let alone drag the thing along with Him when He ascended into heaven. God is God and in no way does He have a "human nature " as part of Him. Sorry. :(
Human nature is the sin nature that all human beings are born with because of the sin of Adam. Jesus was born of a virgin so He had no human or sin nature, no human nature to take to heaven with him and why would He want to anyway? The verses you gave me simply talk about Jesus' relationship with the church. How does this show that Jesus did have a human nature and it's in heaven with Him now? Where did you learn about this doctrine? God Bless :)
To finish up my post. Jesus was divine, being the eternal Word. This divine nature is united to the Father and the Spirit. It did not have physical characteristics as the human nature does. But in Jesus, the two natures co-exist. He is forever our mediator. he represents humanity to God as the perfect human and high priest; and He represents God to humanity in His eternal, perfect, divinity.
Jesus, being God and man forever, unites us to the Godhead and brings God to us which includes the indwelling of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in each believer ( Jn. 14:23; 15:4-5; 17:21)
The mystery of the incarnation is deep, but the Spirit does give us much understanding as we study the Scriptures, especially the life and sayings of Jesus in the Gospels. Hebrews is also a good book to read through as it speaks much to Jesus' role as our High priest, living sacrifice, and human brother, who is also our King, Saviour, Lord, and God whom we worship.
Have a good day. Momsage. I think of you often and continue to pray for you as I hope you pray for me, too.
Hi GiGi: I apologize. I thought I did want to continue with this discussion but I know, as you said, we'll never agree so what is the point of continuing. Despite our differences in what we believe I know our foundation is in Jesus. I know we both love Him dearly and when we see each other in our heavenly home there will be no division of thought there. We can just hug each other and be glad. God Bless :)
Hi GiGi: How is your daughter-in-law? Has she had the baby yet? If so, I'd love to hear the details.
My son, Joshua, the one who is my caretaker, and I have been enjoying a beautiful winter and spring here in Savannah Tennessee. Josh planted flowers around our little yard and we've put up 2 bird feeders, a birdbath, a hummingbird feeder and two bright red cardinal wind chimes. One is solar and lights up at night. It's like a cozy little garden. We live at the end of the complex on the bottom floor with a patio so in a way it's kind of secluded. The weather here is starting to get hot now but most of the winter ( except for one bad snow storm) was very mild and spring has been beautiful. We've had our patio door open almost the whole time up until about a week ago when it started to get to hot.
I do have a prayer request. My daughter is getting a divorce. Evidently her husband, who worked out of town a lot, hasn't been faithful to her. Even though she has always been a stay at home mom she is already working as the supervisor of the children's department at her church, a real blessing. Her children are all grown so that is no worry for her although she does have a daughter still with her with special needs. Please pray for her and her unsaved husband and 2 sons.
I have prayed for your daughter and her situation.
Ad, it sounds like your son has helped to make your living space more enjoyable. It is so great to be outside and be surrounded by natural beauty. Hummingbirds are beautiful and intriguing animals.
No baby yet. Her due date is Friday, but she may go late unless the full moon on Thursday makes for busy maternity wards (as often happens). The redo on their room was completed today so they moved back into their room and next is putting in the baseboards and closet doors in the room across the hall for the baby's future needs.
in a few weeks the contractor will begin the kitchen demo which involves a gut job and taking out walls to open it up to the rest of the living area. So we are pretty much knee deep in this remodel. It will be so wonderful when complete. I've waited 30 years to do this (that is when we moved in here) so I feel very blessed to get this done in the way I have envisioned it to be done for so long.
I have raised beds at a local community garden that I grow vegetables in. I finally got the soil turned and weeded and planted. Wanted to get this done before baby arrives and I did it! My hands are really sore as I have arthritis in hands. This church also grows a big field of vegetables for the local food bank. Those of us who have raised beds help in the big garden with weeding, harvesting over the garden season. It is less than a mile from our house so it is very close and a good place for me to get away by myself and enjoy the growing all around.
At my house I grow flowers in pots. I converted most of my flowerbeds to gravel so the pots have a good place to grow and have the water drain. It is so easy to weed these pots! I have a big strawberry patch here at the house. Should have a good crop this year. It has taken a few years to build it up and fill with plants.
I will certainly pray for your daughter and others involved in this marriage troubles. How hard it must be for her.
I am so glad we have each other to support one another and pray for the needs we have. Thanks for such a cheerful post. It really touched my heart.
Congratulations Grandma GiGi. I'll be praying. Please give me the news when you are ready, no hurry, but I'll be looking forward to hearing. God Bless :)
They got a later start to the c-section than we thought would happen, so Rosie was born around 1:00 A.M.
We did not see her or speak to my son because they were to be in post op recovery for a few hours and it was already 2:00 A.M. when he texted us with a picture. We will head up to hospital in a bit to visit.
Rose is beautiful and healthy and very calm and content for now. That is good for mom Vivian to recover from c-section. My son Kevin is handling her like a pro. They are so happy. I guess all those years I did childcare in our home while the boys were growing up pays off with their calmness and confidence with a new baby. Thanks for all your prayers and well wishes. It was a blessing to see Rose today, to hold her and to enjoy the moment.
I am glad everything went allright with the birth of your first grandchild Rose (beautiful name). You must be very glad. I wish God blesses her very much in her life and pray that all of your children together with their wives give their hearts to Jesus. I also pray that Rose will become a good christian because this is the only way that her life will be totally successful, both materially and spiritually. May God bless you all. As far as I am concerned I am taking a break from the site for the time being and hopefuly I will come back soon. GBU
Giannis, so good to hear from you and thanks you so much for the prayers for my family.
Hope to see you back participating in conversations here soon according to the Lord's timing, of course. You are missed here, but hopefully your time away is filled with more and more of God's truth in Scriptures and more and more filled with the Spirit for all that He has for you to do each day. Rest in God in Christ, be built up in faith, grow in knowledge of our God in Jesus, and be given peace in your waking and sleeping Amen.
It seems you wish to continue this conversation on this topic.
Every human being has a nature given to them by God that includes a physical body, bones, blood, all the organs and systems of our body, skin, a mind, soul, and spirit, intellect, emotions, and will. This nature is good because God created it. This is the human nature that Jesus had. The sinful nature is something Adam and Eve acquired through their fall into sin and every human being has this sinful nature, but not Jesus. He did not have any sinful nature, tendencies, nor desires to sin. His human body was not controlled by a sinful nature. However, He was tempted as we are, but passed the test and did not give into the outward temptation of the devil.
Jesus' human nature otherwise was as ours in our needs. He needed to sleep, eat, grow in wisdom, go through the natural changes from conception to birth, from infant to toddler to child to adolescent to adult maleness. It is not sinful to have these needs.
The Father prepared Jesus' body ( Heb. 10:5) and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Jn. 1:14. His resurrection body was physical and had flesh and bone ( Lk. 24:39).
During the 40 days after His resurrection, He still had a human body and nature-He ate with the disciples, could be touched by them. However, His human nature was glorified so it had capacities that we do not have at this time-He could appear and disappear at will.
When Jesus ascended, He had the same human resurrection body He had all those 40 days. He was taken into heaven bodily. And the angels said that He will come again in the same manner as He ascended-in His body on the clouds.
So, Momsage, it seems that we have differing definitions of what a human nature is. I think the sin nature is an added nature to all humans except Jesus. But the human nature is the way our bodies are created according to God's will. Our human nature was made good by God's design. This is the nature Jesus has. ...cont.
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Jesus Christ perfected in his body so sin is atoned forever. The everlasting covenant commemorates Fellowship of God with Man. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."(Ep.1:4) We were chosen and we are sanctified when we receive him in faith and our works are faith-based. So the Parable of talents teaches who go to life eternal and who eternal condemnation. (Matt.25:40). When he ascended he has a position: when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." He is there as "Melchizedek" the high priest for those who are sanctified. Our service is only faith and works without which merely lip-service to justification is hogwash. His priestly service on earth is done with. He brought grace and truth so our works may be as perfect as his offering.
Jesus Christ is the high priest of our profession which is faith. (He.3:1) Read it in context, "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling," He is high priest after the order of Melchizedek . "Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."(Ps.110:4). On this basis what are we? "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father."(Re.1:6)
The next line speaks " Behold, he cometh with clouds," which ties up with the testimony of two angels at the Ascension. So there is before and after priesthood for the Lamb slain. "stood a Lamb as it had been slain,."(Re.5:6). Now let us look at the two sets of tables of stone given to Moses at the mount. " The tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written/And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables." (Ex.32:15-16)
The work and the writing was of God, the author and finisher of our faith. When Jesus came as the word become flesh, he defined what was the work of God. " This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:28-29) This is what Moses broke at the foot of the mount. "and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount."(32:19) The everlasting covenant was not for the stiff-necked and rebellious people. The second set was the work of Moses "And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel." The Law of Moses is for Israel since God has rejected them. There is also another covenant 'with thee,' in which Moses stands as a double for Jesus Christ. Consequently necessitating a vail Before God he took it off and put it on when he dealt with the Israelites.
Israel cannot find help by itself. "Also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end."(Ec.3:11) Without faith in the Son it is nil
God is "Spirit" and God is the "holy spirit".
Jesus told the women in Samaria clearly that God's essential nature is that of pure Spirit. He has no earthly or physical matter as we have and all of creation has. We know that angels and the heavenly hosts are of celestial substance, not earthly. Yet, I do not think that the pure Spirit of God is the same as the substance of their nature. No created being can have the same essential nature as God has. Since God is pure Spirit and exists without any hindrance from any form of matter or substance He created, He can be everywhere present at once. Yet Scripture does say that the Father dwells in unapproachable light, so He must have uniqueness in His living existence that is beyond what has been created.
Since God is only Spirit, he is not composed of parts or different things that are combined to make His Being. If this was so, then He would be dependent on these components for His existence. He said He is altogether NOT like us. ( Ps. 50:21). We should not think He is anything like anything He has made. He is altogether different in essence, nature, and existence as pure Spirit.
"Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding." Isaiah 40:28 KJV
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD." Isaiah 55:8 KJV
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:9 KJV
People might feel if a person knows us or gets us we should know them or get them, however, with God that does not apply, He created us...
God lets us know in His word that we should fear Him. Due to man's human condition or carnal nature we don't even realize that we need to fear the Lord.
"Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling." Psalms 2:11 KJV
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23 KJV
"...I never knew you.." this scripture implies that souls are actually going to go before God thinking they knew Him and His ways and won't realize that until they actually transition and then will understand that they didn't God at all. (this let's us know we need God's help to learn about Him in our personal journey, and God can and will help us)
"Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, ... Isaiah 55:6 (also Psalms 27:4)
This is a learning way, "God created us in His image" when a believer accepts the Holy Spirit then a Christ mind can be developed in a believer, so that the believer can learn what God is requiring of that particular believer. A believer knows what they know about God because the Lord has provided the knowledge, wisdom and understanding, all our understanding comes from God. God loves us and wants man (whom God created to be like Him). It takes time to be holy.
I certainly respect your desire honor God by using the version of the Bible that you believe is not only aesthetically beautiful but also the product of divine re-inspiration, and therefore is the authoritative translation of the Bible. As you are probably aware the Greek manuscript used by the scholars to translate the 1611 version is known as the Textus Receptus, originally assembled by Erasmus from seven Byzantine manuscripts that were missing a portion of the Book of Revelation. In fact, Erasmus had to translate the Latin Vulgate back into Greek to create the missing portion of the Greek text.
Since 1611 many older and more reliable manuscripts have been discovered. When taken in their entirety, they provide a much closer rendering of the original words of the New Testament authors than that approximated in the Textus Receptus. And therefore, they enable a more accurate translation of the original words inspired by the Holy Spirit into the vernacular of the modern reader of the English language.
The original purpose of creating the 1611 translation was to bring the words of the Bible into the vernacular of the English-speaking people. Whether or not we agree on the accuracy of the underlying manuscripts of the King James Version, we can certainly agree that Elizabethan English is no longer the vernacular of the day and is not accessible or intelligible for most modern readers. If the goal of reading scripture is to first get saved, then to grow in sanctification to live a life pleasing to God, and then to learn more about God's expectation for His people, isn't wise to access the most accurate translation of the Bible that most easy to read and comprehend?
As to creating anything in God's image; that I think speaks to your original point in that God has uniqueness in His essense that can't be properly duplicated. It also would be inferior any image man makes of Him. Such is the case perhaps with the Shroud of Turin; which is another "can of worms" so to speak. My point is that even if we get a fair comprehension of what Jesus actually looked like we need to see Him as Peter did when inspired by the Spirit He said that Jesus was the Son of God; and of course "doubting Thomas" also believed without actually having to touch Jesus after his request Post Resurrection. (He said "my Lord and my God") To worship Jesus as a great prophet or sage even when on earth was dangerous and without recognizing who He really was through the Spirit resulted in eternal separation from God. I would use John 16:8 once again here in examining the role of the Holy Spirit to show us who Christ truly was. Without the Spirit and such knowledge man is reduced to his own concept of who Christ was; the essense of what he taught (as a bunch of "do good" moral statements such as would be interpreted with the Sermon on the Mount or perhaps the 10 Commandments. Man also would do as some I won't mention by name and attempt to separate the God of the Old Testament and His ways from what the New Covenant represents.
This likely feeds into this lukewarm; feel good Jesus who of course was loved by all and never said anything divisive.
Back to the main idea. I would suggest that man's best attempt to make an image or portrait of Christ would likely instead draw Satan himself. The fact is without spiritual discernment we cannot differentiate between the shining one (Lucifer) or his angels and God and His angels. Perhaps this is beyond what you intended with this subject..so carry on.
Also, those who deny the Trintiy doctrine also separate the oneness of God by citing Scriptures that say that the Father is the one true God and that Jesus is the one Lord, and that the Spirit comes from the Father (which to them means that he is an emanation but not a distinct person). However, that is not the way the apostalic churches believed. They were known to the Romans as people who worshipped a crucified man. They sang hymns of praise to Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit. The apostle Paul used these "doxologies" as in 2 Cor. 13:14, Eph. 4:4-6; Phil. 4:19-20; Col. 1:2-3; 1Thess. 1:1-3: 1 Tim. 1:1-2; 1Tim. 6:13-16; Rom. 16:24-27: Eph. 1:3; any many others to exalt the triune Godhead, not to delienate Jesus and the Spirit as being less than divine or separate beings from the Father. That was not the teaching of the early church. Paul used these various blessings, benedictions, doxologies, and prayers to emphasize the oneness of God who was a tri-unity.
Paul's strict Pharisaical upbringing would have made him strictly avoid associating Jesus and the Holy Spirit with God; but as a born again person and after spending many years in the desert learning from Jesus and the Spirit, he shed the Jewish concept of God and instead adhered to honoring and loving the Son as He does the Father, and believing and obeying the Spirit as he would the Father.
John's long career as an apostles brought him to a firm stand on the deity of Jesus and the Spirit, as his Gospel and Epistles clearly show.
I so wish I could read and understand Greek so I could learn the depth of meaning in the NT as our English language does fall short of using exact terms to match the Greek terms and meanings.
Hopefully, Giannis and Jesse will return here soon and help us with Greek.
Take care Richard. Thanks for responding to my posts. I do read yours and ponder them. How good it is that we have each other on here to share and grow together.
As to the Spirit, Jesus said that He will take from Jesus what is His (Jesus') and reveal it unto the disciples. ( Jn. 16:14) and then said in vs. 15 that "all things that the Father has are mine."
No one can take (share, or possess) what belongs to God but God No one can possess ALL that God is in His essence but God. So, both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are equally divine persons with the Father. What did Jesus "take" from the Father? He did not take any essence from the Father because He and the Spirit possessed this eternally with the Father. But there are some things that were given to the Son and the Spirit from the Father. These verses simply point out that Jesus and the Spirit have all that the Father is in divine essence, but they have different roles as distinct persons.
The other point that comes to mind on this topic is that Jn. 5:21-23-Jesus says that the Father raises the dead and quickens them AND that He (Jesus), even so (just as the Father), quickens whom He wills. That the Father judges no man, but the Father has committed all judgment to the Son. That all men should honor the Son, even (the same as) they honor the Father He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which has sent Him. (Again one more instance where Jesus is teaching that He is equal with the Father in divinity and is to be worshipped as the Father is worshipped.)
Jesus teaches that He and the Father are one-meaning unified. ( Jn. 10:30) which the Jews took Him to say He is equal with God.
And in Jn 15:23 Jesus says that he who hateth Him (Jesus) hateth the Father. Again claiming oneness and equal standing as the Father.
Though some who deny the Trinity doctrine will bring up many verses that seem to refute this, but often the verses are referring to Jesus' status as a human person, not concerning His deity.
cont.
Good thoughts here.
The deity of Jesus was defended again and again even before the death of all of the apostles and into the ensuing centuries.
As my post on His deity shows, Scripture clearly teaches that He is a divine person in the Godhead as the Father is. There were many other Scriptural references I could have used but I believe that I gave plenty to make the point of what has been taught of Him since the time of the apostles and what He actually said of Himself.
So, too, with the Holy Spirit. He is a divine person of the Godhead.
People who do not believe that God is a trinity of persons can cite many biblical verses that seem to say that the Father is the only one God and that Jesus is just "the Lord" but not God. Some say Jesus is not God because it seems that the Bible say that He was a creation. But the eternal existence of Jesus, the Son, is well documented in the Bible. Some say that the Holy Spirit is only God's power in action, thus making Him just a force or emanation from God, yet in so many Scriptures the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all spoken of as distinct persons using pronouns such as I, You, Me, We, Us, Him, He, His, My.
As to image making, Scripture does say that Jesus ascended to heaven in His human body and remains there as God and Man. Therefore, The human nature/body of Jesus is the only physical image of God we will see in the eternal state. But I do believe we will see angel and other spiritual beings in that state. Whether or not we will be given the ability to see the Father and the
Spirit in their actual essential form I cannot find Scripture that speaks of that. But we may be given that ability as part of our glorification. I guess I feel that being satisfied with truly and actually seeing Jesus in a physical way will be completely satisfying and sufficient for me because He clearly said that "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father"; that Jesus is the express image of the invisible Father".
There were; as you know several times that Christ was said to appear in His Preincarnate form in the Old Testament. Whether it was God Himself or Christ can be a tricky affair. We also see indications that God indeed has eyes; ears; and smell as humans do in various passages. We also have Christ; Post Resurrection who now in a glorified body still has the marks from His crucifixion since he saw no decay as the prophecies indicate ( Psalm 16:10 also stating that He wouldn't remain in Sheol). I suppose in summation we could say that since He created man in His image there are some things that would appear similar; albeit His unique position as Deity.
I suppose one could surmise how we will appear in our glorified bodies. I have stated how interesting it is that only He will have any marks on His body as opposed to anyone else in heaven.
As to Him not being dependent on anything or anyone; I suppose I could look at the Trinity as a concept and say that there is a sort of interdependence there. Christ could do nothing at least on His earthly ministry; God was to exalt Him in time and basically delegate ruling over the earth even though of course Christ was involved with the Creation in the first place. Of course God had to remain in heaven at that time; or the whole universe would cease to exist. The Holy Spirit; of course works as comforter and convicting men of sin as well as reminding us of all He taught us. Perhaps we could say that the Holy Ghost has no body or substance even like the Father and Son.
Anyway I don't want to cause any difficulty here in you communicating your message. (Just thought of another corroborating text in the sixth seal of Revelation where the world hides from He who sits on the Throne and the wrath of the Lamb (Christ).
I guess I am being difficult. I can avoid commenting if you prefer as I realize there ain't much I can say you don't know already.
In many ways I agree with you that God is heaven (eternal life) and being in His presence is what we will be so happy to abide in in the life to come. Heaven as a place would not be desirable to believers if God is not preset there.
I also remember that Jesus told the apostles that He was going to prepare a place for them in His "Father's house".( John 14:2)
So, if Jesus was speaking literally, then there is a place called heaven. If He was speaking figuratively, then He is most likely indicating that this place is where ever Jesus is because in Him all the Godhead dwells bodily.
It is hard to truly imagine what heaven as a place would be like, but we can readily imagine what heaven as being in God's Presence may be like in some ways. The Bible tells us so much about who God is, so we can be assured that being "in" Christ for all eternity will be so very satisfying and wonderful.
Good to hear from you. I hope we can talk more often. God bless you this day. My first grandchild will be born sometime in the next 10 days or so. I am excited and feel honored to have been asked to attend and be my daughter-in-law's support person along with my son. Please pray for everything to go well with the labor and delivery. Thanks
It seems you have two questions. The first is; unfortunately true as what I was saying at the time Christ was in the grave that God the Father was in heaven. Let me attempt to repharase it; as you bring up God's omnipresence. In God's mind the future is already in the past; hence all prophecy is a "done deal" as it were at least to what was clearly fulfilled by Christ. In the cross; Christ was brought to the earth in human form; thus had to have; more or less the limitations we all have as man in order to die in our place. So I suppose we could say that He came from a timeless dimension to one confined by time; as well as one that confined him in human flesh and necessitated His death at a certain place in a certain way to fulfill these prophecies. At this point to be more precise; once He said "it is finished" He would have sealed the victory and thus was back to an immortal existence. He had to preach to those who were disobedient in Sheol as well as those fallen angels imprisoned under the earth; then release the captive souls who until that time could not go directly into God's presence. His sacrifice therefore was fully efficacious for them; so that they could be atoned for. I can reference the verses in Peter and Jude etc.; I have done this before so feel it isn't necessary. The key factor here is that SIN (ours) is what forced Him for that brief time on the cross to be separated from the Father since God cannot look on sin (Habukkuk 1:13) He had to turn away from His Son as part of a predetermined plan (see Deut. 29:29).
As to heaven; I take the descriptions in Revelation 22 as literal; there are undoubtably other verses expressing these things such as Psalm 48. The earthly temple was a shadow of the real thing ( Heb. 8:5) thus parameters were very specific. I could do a study on this at some point.
Anyway; keep reading the Word. Agape.
RIch P
AS to your thought about the persons of the Trinity being interdependent on each other, this is true. What I was stating that God is not dependent on anyone or anything outside of His Being. Yet within the Being of God there is relational interdependence the persons in an eternal way. The Father would not be Father without the Son, and the Word would not be the Son without the Father. The Spirit would not be spirated (breathed out) from the Father and the Son if the Father and the Son did not exist or did not choose to spirate him. There would not be love and agreement exchanged in the Being of God if there were only one person. But there is only one God-He is One in Being but three in persons who are eternally united as One-echad in Hebrew.
Another way to view His Being is that the three persons are interrelated to one another (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) interpenetrated in one another (I am in the Father ad He is in me. The Spirit will dwell in believers and the Father and the Son will dwell also) and integrated with one another inaction in the one Being of God.
Your comments do not cause any difficulty. I purposely did not include information on Jesus humanity because I was speaking only to His divinity in the Godhead in my posts on Him being God. I agree that He is forever God and man in one person and that He will forever have a human body with His scars but glorified as our bodies will be in the eternal state.
Also, when the Bible speaks of God seeing, hearing, and smelling and any other sensing as a body made of matter will do, the Bible is speaking anthropomorphically so that we can understand Him more easily. Can God take on an appearance of having a body? Yes, He did so in the Old Testament times with Abraham and Jacob, Isaiah and Ezekiel and Daniel. But these forms are not what God is eternally like. He is Spirit, but able to make Himself visible to mankind as having a body.
For God in His essence to have a body eternally would interfere with his limitless, infinite, boundless Being. He is not limited by time, space, or matter. But as a Spirit, does He have a permanent form? His commandment to not make any physical representation of Him is one clue that He does not. Does He have an image as it says we were made in His image? I really cannot say that He does or does not eternally in His essence, but since He eternally chose for the Son to become man, this knowledge would avail Him to make ma in the image of the Son made man.
Thanks for bringing this up. In trying to stick with the topic and not go sideways into other biblical aspects, it will inevitably leave some truths unstated or unexplained. I believe that we will see God in Jesus. Whether we will see the Father alongside Jesus, it seems that Jesus said that He was in the Father and the Father was in Him and that if one sees Jesus they are seeing the Father.
This is unfortunately a drawback to singling out aspects of God's Being because He is a unified whole. Some have said that He is His attributes. They are not something He acquires or changes
I have enjoyed reading the comments between you and Richard about the Godhead. They are pretty good, however, you said something I don't understand. You might be totally correct about it, I never thought of it before but what did you mean when you said " He will forever have a human body." I know His scars were visible when He walked on earth before He ascended into Heaven but then didn't He go back to being God without anything "human" being a part of Him as God? God is a spirit or else how could He be all knowing, all powerful and everywhere at all times so how does a human body fit into that? These are honest questions because, as I said, I've never heard of this before.
Also, I probably misunderstood you, but it seemed in one of your other postings you indicated Paul sat under the teachings of Jesus during His earthly ministry; "but as a born again person and after spending many years in the desert learning from Jesus and the Spirit." This is what i am talking about. God Bless :)
Good to hear back from you.
As to your first concern.
We know that Jesus is forever our high priest and mediator between mankind and the Father. ( Heb. 510; 6:20; 8:6; 1 Tim. 2:5.
The doctrine that Jesus will forever remain God and man is commonly held doctrine throughout the centuries. If you have not heard of it, perhaps you can try to learn more about it historically before dismissing it.
At Jesus' ascension, the angels told the disciples that Jesus would return in the SAME manner as He ascended. This not only means "on the clouds" but in the same body.
As to your second concern about Jesus being everywhere present. His divine nature is not confined to within His human body. As the divine Son of God, He can be everywhere present because He always has the divine spirit nature as the Father and Holy Spirit.
He told the disciples that He would always be with them, EACH of them individually. ( Mt. 28:20) He said that the Father and the Son will come and make their abode in the believer who loves God and obeys His commands. ( Jn. 14:2). Jesus' divine nature is limitless, but His human nature, though glorified is limited. He can live as God in His human nature AND also fill the universe as His Father and the Spirit can. His divine nature can be everywhere present but His human nature is limited. Jesus sits on the throne in heaven as "God made flesh" and also abides in every believer in His divine nature.
As the your third concern about Paul's instruction. He was many years in the Arabian desert where he was given the gospel message from the risen Jesus Himself (see Galatians 1:11-17; 1Cor. 11:23).
I gave you my understanding from Scripture in answer to your concerns. I guess we will disagree on these points at this time.
Have a good day, Momsage.
To finish up my post. Jesus was divine, being the eternal Word. This divine nature is united to the Father and the Spirit. It did not have physical characteristics as the human nature does. But in Jesus, the two natures co-exist. He is forever our mediator. he represents humanity to God as the perfect human and high priest; and He represents God to humanity in His eternal, perfect, divinity.
Jesus, being God and man forever, unites us to the Godhead and brings God to us which includes the indwelling of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in each believer ( Jn. 14:23; 15:4-5; 17:21)
The mystery of the incarnation is deep, but the Spirit does give us much understanding as we study the Scriptures, especially the life and sayings of Jesus in the Gospels. Hebrews is also a good book to read through as it speaks much to Jesus' role as our High priest, living sacrifice, and human brother, who is also our King, Saviour, Lord, and God whom we worship.
Have a good day. Momsage. I think of you often and continue to pray for you as I hope you pray for me, too.
Amen. Let s be at peace with each other.
My son, Joshua, the one who is my caretaker, and I have been enjoying a beautiful winter and spring here in Savannah Tennessee. Josh planted flowers around our little yard and we've put up 2 bird feeders, a birdbath, a hummingbird feeder and two bright red cardinal wind chimes. One is solar and lights up at night. It's like a cozy little garden. We live at the end of the complex on the bottom floor with a patio so in a way it's kind of secluded. The weather here is starting to get hot now but most of the winter ( except for one bad snow storm) was very mild and spring has been beautiful. We've had our patio door open almost the whole time up until about a week ago when it started to get to hot.
I do have a prayer request. My daughter is getting a divorce. Evidently her husband, who worked out of town a lot, hasn't been faithful to her. Even though she has always been a stay at home mom she is already working as the supervisor of the children's department at her church, a real blessing. Her children are all grown so that is no worry for her although she does have a daughter still with her with special needs. Please pray for her and her unsaved husband and 2 sons.
I hope to hear from you soon. Ann God Bless :)
I have prayed for your daughter and her situation.
Ad, it sounds like your son has helped to make your living space more enjoyable. It is so great to be outside and be surrounded by natural beauty. Hummingbirds are beautiful and intriguing animals.
No baby yet. Her due date is Friday, but she may go late unless the full moon on Thursday makes for busy maternity wards (as often happens). The redo on their room was completed today so they moved back into their room and next is putting in the baseboards and closet doors in the room across the hall for the baby's future needs.
in a few weeks the contractor will begin the kitchen demo which involves a gut job and taking out walls to open it up to the rest of the living area. So we are pretty much knee deep in this remodel. It will be so wonderful when complete. I've waited 30 years to do this (that is when we moved in here) so I feel very blessed to get this done in the way I have envisioned it to be done for so long.
I have raised beds at a local community garden that I grow vegetables in. I finally got the soil turned and weeded and planted. Wanted to get this done before baby arrives and I did it! My hands are really sore as I have arthritis in hands. This church also grows a big field of vegetables for the local food bank. Those of us who have raised beds help in the big garden with weeding, harvesting over the garden season. It is less than a mile from our house so it is very close and a good place for me to get away by myself and enjoy the growing all around.
At my house I grow flowers in pots. I converted most of my flowerbeds to gravel so the pots have a good place to grow and have the water drain. It is so easy to weed these pots! I have a big strawberry patch here at the house. Should have a good crop this year. It has taken a few years to build it up and fill with plants.
I will certainly pray for your daughter and others involved in this marriage troubles. How hard it must be for her.
I am so glad we have each other to support one another and pray for the needs we have. Thanks for such a cheerful post. It really touched my heart.
at the hospital now being labor coach for my daughter in law, so things may get crazy in a few hours.
will update after Rosie is born.
They got a later start to the c-section than we thought would happen, so Rosie was born around 1:00 A.M.
We did not see her or speak to my son because they were to be in post op recovery for a few hours and it was already 2:00 A.M. when he texted us with a picture. We will head up to hospital in a bit to visit.
I am glad everything went allright with the birth of your first grandchild Rose (beautiful name). You must be very glad. I wish God blesses her very much in her life and pray that all of your children together with their wives give their hearts to Jesus. I also pray that Rose will become a good christian because this is the only way that her life will be totally successful, both materially and spiritually. May God bless you all. As far as I am concerned I am taking a break from the site for the time being and hopefuly I will come back soon. GBU
Hope to see you back participating in conversations here soon according to the Lord's timing, of course. You are missed here, but hopefully your time away is filled with more and more of God's truth in Scriptures and more and more filled with the Spirit for all that He has for you to do each day. Rest in God in Christ, be built up in faith, grow in knowledge of our God in Jesus, and be given peace in your waking and sleeping Amen.
It seems you wish to continue this conversation on this topic.
Every human being has a nature given to them by God that includes a physical body, bones, blood, all the organs and systems of our body, skin, a mind, soul, and spirit, intellect, emotions, and will. This nature is good because God created it. This is the human nature that Jesus had. The sinful nature is something Adam and Eve acquired through their fall into sin and every human being has this sinful nature, but not Jesus. He did not have any sinful nature, tendencies, nor desires to sin. His human body was not controlled by a sinful nature. However, He was tempted as we are, but passed the test and did not give into the outward temptation of the devil.
Jesus' human nature otherwise was as ours in our needs. He needed to sleep, eat, grow in wisdom, go through the natural changes from conception to birth, from infant to toddler to child to adolescent to adult maleness. It is not sinful to have these needs.
The Father prepared Jesus' body ( Heb. 10:5) and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Jn. 1:14. His resurrection body was physical and had flesh and bone ( Lk. 24:39).
During the 40 days after His resurrection, He still had a human body and nature-He ate with the disciples, could be touched by them. However, His human nature was glorified so it had capacities that we do not have at this time-He could appear and disappear at will.
When Jesus ascended, He had the same human resurrection body He had all those 40 days. He was taken into heaven bodily. And the angels said that He will come again in the same manner as He ascended-in His body on the clouds.
So, Momsage, it seems that we have differing definitions of what a human nature is. I think the sin nature is an added nature to all humans except Jesus. But the human nature is the way our bodies are created according to God's will. Our human nature was made good by God's design. This is the nature Jesus has. ...cont.
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Jesus Christ perfected in his body so sin is atoned forever. The everlasting covenant commemorates Fellowship of God with Man. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."(Ep.1:4) We were chosen and we are sanctified when we receive him in faith and our works are faith-based. So the Parable of talents teaches who go to life eternal and who eternal condemnation. (Matt.25:40). When he ascended he has a position: when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." He is there as "Melchizedek" the high priest for those who are sanctified. Our service is only faith and works without which merely lip-service to justification is hogwash. His priestly service on earth is done with. He brought grace and truth so our works may be as perfect as his offering.
The next line speaks " Behold, he cometh with clouds," which ties up with the testimony of two angels at the Ascension. So there is before and after priesthood for the Lamb slain. "stood a Lamb as it had been slain,."(Re.5:6). Now let us look at the two sets of tables of stone given to Moses at the mount. " The tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written/And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables." (Ex.32:15-16)
The work and the writing was of God, the author and finisher of our faith. When Jesus came as the word become flesh, he defined what was the work of God. " This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:28-29) This is what Moses broke at the foot of the mount. "and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount."(32:19) The everlasting covenant was not for the stiff-necked and rebellious people. The second set was the work of Moses "And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel." The Law of Moses is for Israel since God has rejected them. There is also another covenant 'with thee,' in which Moses stands as a double for Jesus Christ. Consequently necessitating a vail Before God he took it off and put it on when he dealt with the Israelites.
Israel cannot find help by itself. "Also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end."(Ec.3:11) Without faith in the Son it is nil
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