It seems that you would like to see more discussion concerning soteriology (study of salvation) on this forum. Perhaps you can start a discussion on this. I am sure there are people on here who may have some questions or would like to read posts that address this important topic. There are many important topics concerning our faith and doctrines that can be spoken of here. Soteriology is one such topic. And the Scriptures, especially the NT speaks to a variety of topics, not just soteriology. So should we here. I can see that the topic of soteriology is one you want to see more discussion on here, so I hope you will begin posts on this topic so people can respond to you.
Our purpose in this life as believers is to give glory to God in how we live and what we say, how we spend our time, and how we respond to the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Whether that be sharing the gospel with unbelievers, helping new believers to grow in their faith and knowledge of God, being supportive of those who request prayer by being an intercessor, contributing to the works of service needed in the body, or a wide number of other things the Holy Spirit desires for the church and for individuals.
I hope to remain open to whatever topics are brought up on this site. Some discussions I will enter into and others I will read and let the discussion continue among others without stepping in. But I usually pray over the topics brought up on here as I know that they speak to someone's need on here.
I hope you are doing well. I always am glad to read your posts. Thanks for sharing your concerns and I look forward to the discussions you will begin on soteriology.
I am trying to start a new thread. Somehow part one didn't separate from my previous post.
Here is Part 2.
Matthew 5:13-15
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
(Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.)
This is a picture of the Lampstand!
Who is in the midst of the Lampstand and who does the lampstand shines light on? Our Lord.
What does the oil represent in the Lampstand? The Holyspirit.
OILED FILLED LAMPSTANDS.
John 16:7-16.
Verses 7 and 8 we see the disciples is to be impowered by the Holyspirit to carry on the work of Christ as the light in the world that reproves it of sin.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Acts 1:6-8
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 1:6-8. sets our priority straight and is relevant to our topic we have been discussing over the last few days.
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
We are given the Holyspirit for the purpose of being light that represents Christ to a dark world.
When we are on our mission there is unity, and our light shines and glorifies God as mentioned in Matthew 5:16.
When united as we should be we function as seen in Ephesians 4:6-14 as I mentioned in the previous thread. This Glorifies God.
John 3:17-21 also puts emphasis on the light.
For lack of time lets go to Revelation with our purpose and commission in mind.
Revelation 3:14-22.
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
As you examine the text, the Laodiceans is Lukewarm and neither cold nor Hot for various reasons.
Verse 19) they are asked to be zealous and repent.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
THEY ARE ASKED TO HAVE A ZEAL.
A zeal for what?
They are not shining light on the Lord by the work that was commissioned to them.
They have grown complacent.
Verse 20 the lord is not even in their midst!
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks.
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Here in Revelation, chapters 1,2, and 3 the Lord is addressing his Church.
In this thread I want to focus on the candle stick. (Which is actually a lamp stand.) "Light barer".
The Lord identifies the Lamp stand in verse 20) the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Revelation 1:20.
Also, what's important to see is Jesus's placement in the picture drawn. He is in the midst of the lampstand.
This is a picture of the Menorah.
It is to be oiled filled and never burn out.
WITH THAT IN MIND LETS GO TO THE GOSPELS.
John 9:4.
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 1:4-12.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
It is clear Jesus came into the world to give light to a dark world and testifies to the world that its works is evil.
Gigi, I have enjoyed and talked about every biblical topic you can imagine on this site as well as others but I never neglect what's most important. "Our commission.
With that being said the distraction I spoke to Brother Ronald about wasn't because there were other topics than Soteriology.
The distractions is the quarrels over less important issues.
If someone won me over with their eschatology that wont save me!
So, if someone comes on the site for help in their walk or faith, Don't be distracted by the quarrels and take the time and help them.
Gigi, I've seen you do that!
Maybe this will help.
I pasted and copied the "theme" of my conversation to Ronald.
"That is true Brother Ronald but finding having the truth doesn't necessarily eliminate pride.
To quarrel about a secondary topic and neglect what's most important is a show of pride.
You see we set Christ commission aside to do our own thing.
Winning a debate doesn't out weigh Winning souls.
Here's an example of what I noticed.
A person posted questions on their fear of coming to Christ. That message lingered for hours before there was an response while posts of several topics went on.
When one or two offered their help on the subject the thread was flooded but not many of those replies went to the lady posting. (By the way, it was a guy)
This person's request for help was ignored while debates went on.
There's the distraction!
Jaz was the first to respond.
As for Unity.
Being in agreement with one Doctrinally doesn't necessarily mean you have unity. There are those who doesn't want to have nothing to say or do with others because of diverse reasons.
As you said, "You don't think there is a need for us to discuss this further"
Thanks for joining in!
I will be discussing it as I always has. Perhaps on a separate thread.
If by saying that "Gigi, I've seen you do that!" you meant that even though I continue in a discussion were parties disagree yet still take the time to speak to others who post a request for help, then I have seen you do that, too. Thank you for doing so!
And lastly, when you speak of people here continuing in a discussion where parties strongly disagree you attribute it to pride. How can you say you know that is true? Only God really know the heart and intentions of why people do such things.
Was Paul being prideful when he addressed Peter strongly when Peter ate with the Judaizers instead of the Gentiles in fellowship meetings?
Was he being prideful when he spoke against those who spread false teaching? We cannot know for sure, but his love and zeal for the truth and right living compelled him as it does many here.
Was Jesus being prideful when he corrected or spoke harshly to the Pharisees and Sadducees, priests and leaders? Of course not!
We should all be careful to not judge others motives and the attitudes of their hearts concerning what they post here. We can certainly pray for one another and also think the best of others ( Phil. 2:3 tells us to think of others as better than ourselves). Doing so fosters respect and charity between believers. I endeavor to do just this, especially when another person says things I do not agree with or even are offended by their viewpoint. Even so, I pray for the conversation and the persons involved in it, myself and others, and I also seek not to judge another person in their intentions or in their standing with Christ.
This being said, I do think it is important that we be willing to speak the things that are hard to say, such as stating that what one speaks or promotes is erroneous or even heresy. We have an obligation to do this from Scripture as Paul and Jude m. But we do so in love even though it may not seems so to the recipient.
Hmmm. your comment that I have continued to quarrel on a topic when someone comes on the site for help is not a true reflection of me or my motives for continuing a conversation. But if you believe I have been this way, I can remember many times when you have continued debate on a topic in the same way even when there are people who post their requests for help. So, we should be self-reflective when we accuse another person of the same things we have done.
If you look at my history on here you will find that I respond to requests for prayer and help often. And when a topic is being discussed strongly, I try to continue in it until it seems to come to a point to cease, as I believe you and many others do here.
For me, I don't mind strong disagreement on ideas as long as we are free to respond on topic. Others may not like to engage this way. Having strong disagreement is not the same as being divisive or mean-spirited. The free exchange of ideas and view points is allowed here and has been part of the Christian conversation since the time of Jesus and the early church. Being assertive is not the same as being argumentative.
Also, what you may consider a minor topic or doctrine does not necessarily make it so. Therefore, we should not be the judge of the choice of topics on this forum.
I know that both you and I and many on here are concerned about truth being spoken concerning biblical teachings, and we should be. I understand that there are many beliefs that are in disagreement among believers here and in the church at large. But just because there is such variety does not mean that we take a Laise-fair attitude about this because truth does matter.
I do agree that we should be speaking of soteriology often on this site and I do think that we do. But there are many other discussions that address other topics too. I attribute this diversity of topics to the work of the Holy Spirit for the building up and maturing of the saints.
You made me go back and re-read that post. I wasn't accusing you of anything.
However, I can see where it could have been misunderstood.
Here my that quote.
"So, if someone comes on the site for help in their walk or faith, Don't be distracted by the quarrels and take the time and help them.
Gigi, I've seen you do that!
End quote.
Gigi, I was saying you take the time and help them. I wasn't saying otherwise.
Sorry for that misunderstanding. I do see how that could go both ways.
I said they DON'T break away from their quarrels or debate to help.
I was saying, "I've see you break away from your debate or quarrels to help. Just as I do. I don't think I have never left a UNANSWERED request for help concerning their salvation.
I'm saying that is far more important than 5 people debating everyday and ignore helping someone because they have become consumed in winning their debate.
Yes, pride will make you do that.
As for Pride. We all suffer that to some degree. If we feel we haven't then that maybe a sign of pride in itself.
Now I have ignored challenges. Here is how.
When I see in a lengthy debate with people like Chris, Jesse, and others like them that hold the same view I have on a topic like Eschatology, and then later challenge me because of something I said to someone else on a separate thread, that has nothing to do with them,
I pretty much tell them they have debated this with another brother that presented his argument, and I can't improve on it.
Or I see how consumed they are on a certain doctrine, so I refuse to engage, and I ask them if they wanted to discuss soteriology we can.
I've been doing this for some time now.
It probably started with Jimbob a year ago because he said he didn't want to discuss a topic on Salvation.
As mentioned in my other post. I will be discussing this on another thread.
Thanks for clarifying because, as you said, your comment could be taken two ways, and I made sure I addressed both take aways with you.
I hope you are not offended that I explained how I felt if the first take away was true. I was not so much defending myself as attempting to explain how it is good to not assume things about others that we cannot know about them and leave that knowing up to God.
And, yes, we all have pride in us. As a believer, we are to overcome the temptations and put to death the old nature at every turn. Sometimes we do and other times we find in review of our actions and motives that pride has had its way in us. We repent and ask God to help us identify this and any other sin that tries to entrap us into committing, especially those that can be hurtful to others as well as those that fester motivations within us that dishonor our Lord and the unity of the brethren, as you emphasized.
In conversations here, I tend to think that people choose to bring up certain topics or respond to posts because they genuinely wish to discuss it, to find out what a person actually means if unclear to me, to attempt to faithfully bring out what is revealed in Scripture, and to do all this out of love and concern for the one I am speaking with.
And, yes, some people do bring up some topics and phrase their ideas in a way that is an outright challenge to debate or to stir up controversy. There are some like this in every situation. But it seems to me that most people here are to trying to do this.
Some of the more blatant ones who stir up controversy have come and gone. But then there is always some to step into the void when one of these people stop posting. It is not my desire (nor that of others) here to be a catalyst for anyone leaving this forum. But some will leave because they do not like the debating because they are uncomfortable with it themselves, or don't think it reflects well on Christ. Which I understand. Talk more later.
So thankful we have talked through this instead of not talking about it. It is settled and that is good for us. I value your friendship and insights. Have a good evening. Still waiting for my daughter-in-law to begin true labor. She is at her due date, but baby Rose is ready when she is ready! Hoping that she will be born within the next 5 days or so. I value your prayers.
We have Ephesians 4:1-13 touching on what's expected.
Vs 1) We are told to
walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.
Vs 2) Here's how we are to do it. "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Vs 3) Another Verse that brings clarity to what I posted.
"Endeavouring to KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE BOND OF PEACE.
Vs 4-13 ) We are gifted Christ Spirit and offices for him to perform in us. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Contrary to this is Vs 14 where there is no unity but yet DISTRACTIONS and deception.
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Gigi my post was about distractions that take us away from our Great commission.
We don't glorify the Lord that way.
My reply to Ronald was about, out of all the doctrines I mentioned, ( Eschatology, Soteriology, ect ect. Soteriology is the most important and most neglected.
And it is the only one that carries consequences if you get it wrong.
I agree with you in this matter. I was just wanting to encourage you to begin conversation on this forum on soteriology since it seems the Lord has put that on your heart at this time. I look forward to these discussions.
I do want to say that any of us should follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit in our conversation here and elsewhere. It is not a distraction or divisive to discuss a wide range of topics here or elsewhere. We do need to enter such discussions as you said, humbly and lovingly, with forbearance and patience no matter what the topic. Discussing soteriology is always a good topic to discuss, but there are many other topics that speak to important doctrines taught in Scripture that aid in building up the church in wisdom and unity. We each should bring forward the topics the Holy Spirit is prompting us to do, for, as you said, there is one body and one Spirit.
I don't think there is a need for us to discuss this further as I do agree that we should desire unity and harmony as well as take time to speak the Gospel in situation that are presented to us by the Holy Spirit and that there are those who are new believers that may need further explanation on their recent conversion and new relationship with God in and through Jesus Chrsit.
Blessings to you, Steven, as always. I hope your evening goes very well. Will talk with you soon.
Our mission is to take the Gospel out to the whole world whether on Church on the streets in the grocery store or on this site.
It's "shouldn't" be common that any Christian would refute that.
My post, and reply to Brother Ronald was concerning our mission.
However,
let's talk about Glorifying God for a moment in relations to what I posted.
Here goes.
An article on distractions.
"Remembering Jesus' Prayer for Unity
We all know the narrative in John 17. But let's revisit it.
John 17:11
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.
This was the last thing on Jesus' mind before he went to the cross. He could have been praying about anything, but he chose to pray about unity.
There is the heading Gigi to this whole conversation.
When we are as one we Glorify the Lord, not when we are divided.
Look at the previous verse.
John 17:10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.
We are many members but yet one body, one Spirit, and one Lord.
We glorify the Lord by carrying on his mission in Love not chaos.
God set up these different offices within the body for that cause!
I will post a few scriptures for lack of time and space.
Ephesians 4:1-3.
Ephesians 4:4.
Ephesians 4:7-8.
And last but certainly not least. Ephesians 4:11-13.
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST:
Till we all come in the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST:
We have built for a mission that Glorifies Christ!!
It seems that you would like to see more discussion concerning soteriology (study of salvation) on this forum. Perhaps you can start a discussion on this. I am sure there are people on here who may have some questions or would like to read posts that address this important topic. There are many important topics concerning our faith and doctrines that can be spoken of here. Soteriology is one such topic. And the Scriptures, especially the NT speaks to a variety of topics, not just soteriology. So should we here. I can see that the topic of soteriology is one you want to see more discussion on here, so I hope you will begin posts on this topic so people can respond to you.
Our purpose in this life as believers is to give glory to God in how we live and what we say, how we spend our time, and how we respond to the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Whether that be sharing the gospel with unbelievers, helping new believers to grow in their faith and knowledge of God, being supportive of those who request prayer by being an intercessor, contributing to the works of service needed in the body, or a wide number of other things the Holy Spirit desires for the church and for individuals.
I hope to remain open to whatever topics are brought up on this site. Some discussions I will enter into and others I will read and let the discussion continue among others without stepping in. But I usually pray over the topics brought up on here as I know that they speak to someone's need on here.
I hope you are doing well. I always am glad to read your posts. Thanks for sharing your concerns and I look forward to the discussions you will begin on soteriology.
I am trying to start a new thread. Somehow part one didn't separate from my previous post.
Here is Part 2.
Matthew 5:13-15
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
(Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.)
This is a picture of the Lampstand!
Who is in the midst of the Lampstand and who does the lampstand shines light on? Our Lord.
What does the oil represent in the Lampstand? The Holyspirit.
OILED FILLED LAMPSTANDS.
John 16:7-16.
Verses 7 and 8 we see the disciples is to be impowered by the Holyspirit to carry on the work of Christ as the light in the world that reproves it of sin.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Acts 1:6-8
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
See Part 3.
Part 3.
Acts 1:6-8. sets our priority straight and is relevant to our topic we have been discussing over the last few days.
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
We are given the Holyspirit for the purpose of being light that represents Christ to a dark world.
When we are on our mission there is unity, and our light shines and glorifies God as mentioned in Matthew 5:16.
When united as we should be we function as seen in Ephesians 4:6-14 as I mentioned in the previous thread. This Glorifies God.
John 3:17-21 also puts emphasis on the light.
For lack of time lets go to Revelation with our purpose and commission in mind.
Revelation 3:14-22.
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
As you examine the text, the Laodiceans is Lukewarm and neither cold nor Hot for various reasons.
Verse 19) they are asked to be zealous and repent.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
THEY ARE ASKED TO HAVE A ZEAL.
A zeal for what?
They are not shining light on the Lord by the work that was commissioned to them.
They have grown complacent.
Verse 20 the lord is not even in their midst!
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Continuing perhaps this weekend.
God bless.
Part 1.
Revelation 1:12-13.
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks.
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Here in Revelation, chapters 1,2, and 3 the Lord is addressing his Church.
In this thread I want to focus on the candle stick. (Which is actually a lamp stand.) "Light barer".
The Lord identifies the Lamp stand in verse 20) the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Revelation 1:20.
Also, what's important to see is Jesus's placement in the picture drawn. He is in the midst of the lampstand.
This is a picture of the Menorah.
It is to be oiled filled and never burn out.
WITH THAT IN MIND LETS GO TO THE GOSPELS.
John 9:4.
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 1:4-12.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
It is clear Jesus came into the world to give light to a dark world and testifies to the world that its works is evil.
John 7:7.
On to page 2.
Thanks for replying.
Gigi, I have enjoyed and talked about every biblical topic you can imagine on this site as well as others but I never neglect what's most important. "Our commission.
With that being said the distraction I spoke to Brother Ronald about wasn't because there were other topics than Soteriology.
The distractions is the quarrels over less important issues.
If someone won me over with their eschatology that wont save me!
So, if someone comes on the site for help in their walk or faith, Don't be distracted by the quarrels and take the time and help them.
Gigi, I've seen you do that!
Maybe this will help.
I pasted and copied the "theme" of my conversation to Ronald.
"That is true Brother Ronald but finding having the truth doesn't necessarily eliminate pride.
To quarrel about a secondary topic and neglect what's most important is a show of pride.
You see we set Christ commission aside to do our own thing.
Winning a debate doesn't out weigh Winning souls.
Here's an example of what I noticed.
A person posted questions on their fear of coming to Christ. That message lingered for hours before there was an response while posts of several topics went on.
When one or two offered their help on the subject the thread was flooded but not many of those replies went to the lady posting. (By the way, it was a guy)
This person's request for help was ignored while debates went on.
There's the distraction!
Jaz was the first to respond.
As for Unity.
Being in agreement with one Doctrinally doesn't necessarily mean you have unity. There are those who doesn't want to have nothing to say or do with others because of diverse reasons.
As you said, "You don't think there is a need for us to discuss this further"
Thanks for joining in!
I will be discussing it as I always has. Perhaps on a separate thread.
God bless you.
To finish up my response.
If by saying that "Gigi, I've seen you do that!" you meant that even though I continue in a discussion were parties disagree yet still take the time to speak to others who post a request for help, then I have seen you do that, too. Thank you for doing so!
And lastly, when you speak of people here continuing in a discussion where parties strongly disagree you attribute it to pride. How can you say you know that is true? Only God really know the heart and intentions of why people do such things.
Was Paul being prideful when he addressed Peter strongly when Peter ate with the Judaizers instead of the Gentiles in fellowship meetings?
Was he being prideful when he spoke against those who spread false teaching? We cannot know for sure, but his love and zeal for the truth and right living compelled him as it does many here.
Was Jesus being prideful when he corrected or spoke harshly to the Pharisees and Sadducees, priests and leaders? Of course not!
We should all be careful to not judge others motives and the attitudes of their hearts concerning what they post here. We can certainly pray for one another and also think the best of others ( Phil. 2:3 tells us to think of others as better than ourselves). Doing so fosters respect and charity between believers. I endeavor to do just this, especially when another person says things I do not agree with or even are offended by their viewpoint. Even so, I pray for the conversation and the persons involved in it, myself and others, and I also seek not to judge another person in their intentions or in their standing with Christ.
This being said, I do think it is important that we be willing to speak the things that are hard to say, such as stating that what one speaks or promotes is erroneous or even heresy. We have an obligation to do this from Scripture as Paul and Jude m. But we do so in love even though it may not seems so to the recipient.
Steven, thanks for your response.
Hmmm. your comment that I have continued to quarrel on a topic when someone comes on the site for help is not a true reflection of me or my motives for continuing a conversation. But if you believe I have been this way, I can remember many times when you have continued debate on a topic in the same way even when there are people who post their requests for help. So, we should be self-reflective when we accuse another person of the same things we have done.
If you look at my history on here you will find that I respond to requests for prayer and help often. And when a topic is being discussed strongly, I try to continue in it until it seems to come to a point to cease, as I believe you and many others do here.
For me, I don't mind strong disagreement on ideas as long as we are free to respond on topic. Others may not like to engage this way. Having strong disagreement is not the same as being divisive or mean-spirited. The free exchange of ideas and view points is allowed here and has been part of the Christian conversation since the time of Jesus and the early church. Being assertive is not the same as being argumentative.
Also, what you may consider a minor topic or doctrine does not necessarily make it so. Therefore, we should not be the judge of the choice of topics on this forum.
I know that both you and I and many on here are concerned about truth being spoken concerning biblical teachings, and we should be. I understand that there are many beliefs that are in disagreement among believers here and in the church at large. But just because there is such variety does not mean that we take a Laise-fair attitude about this because truth does matter.
I do agree that we should be speaking of soteriology often on this site and I do think that we do. But there are many other discussions that address other topics too. I attribute this diversity of topics to the work of the Holy Spirit for the building up and maturing of the saints.
You made me go back and re-read that post. I wasn't accusing you of anything.
However, I can see where it could have been misunderstood.
Here my that quote.
"So, if someone comes on the site for help in their walk or faith, Don't be distracted by the quarrels and take the time and help them.
Gigi, I've seen you do that!
End quote.
Gigi, I was saying you take the time and help them. I wasn't saying otherwise.
Sorry for that misunderstanding. I do see how that could go both ways.
I said they DON'T break away from their quarrels or debate to help.
I was saying, "I've see you break away from your debate or quarrels to help. Just as I do. I don't think I have never left a UNANSWERED request for help concerning their salvation.
I'm saying that is far more important than 5 people debating everyday and ignore helping someone because they have become consumed in winning their debate.
Yes, pride will make you do that.
As for Pride. We all suffer that to some degree. If we feel we haven't then that maybe a sign of pride in itself.
Now I have ignored challenges. Here is how.
When I see in a lengthy debate with people like Chris, Jesse, and others like them that hold the same view I have on a topic like Eschatology, and then later challenge me because of something I said to someone else on a separate thread, that has nothing to do with them,
I pretty much tell them they have debated this with another brother that presented his argument, and I can't improve on it.
Or I see how consumed they are on a certain doctrine, so I refuse to engage, and I ask them if they wanted to discuss soteriology we can.
I've been doing this for some time now.
It probably started with Jimbob a year ago because he said he didn't want to discuss a topic on Salvation.
As mentioned in my other post. I will be discussing this on another thread.
Thanks, and God bless.
Thanks for clarifying because, as you said, your comment could be taken two ways, and I made sure I addressed both take aways with you.
I hope you are not offended that I explained how I felt if the first take away was true. I was not so much defending myself as attempting to explain how it is good to not assume things about others that we cannot know about them and leave that knowing up to God.
And, yes, we all have pride in us. As a believer, we are to overcome the temptations and put to death the old nature at every turn. Sometimes we do and other times we find in review of our actions and motives that pride has had its way in us. We repent and ask God to help us identify this and any other sin that tries to entrap us into committing, especially those that can be hurtful to others as well as those that fester motivations within us that dishonor our Lord and the unity of the brethren, as you emphasized.
In conversations here, I tend to think that people choose to bring up certain topics or respond to posts because they genuinely wish to discuss it, to find out what a person actually means if unclear to me, to attempt to faithfully bring out what is revealed in Scripture, and to do all this out of love and concern for the one I am speaking with.
And, yes, some people do bring up some topics and phrase their ideas in a way that is an outright challenge to debate or to stir up controversy. There are some like this in every situation. But it seems to me that most people here are to trying to do this.
Some of the more blatant ones who stir up controversy have come and gone. But then there is always some to step into the void when one of these people stop posting. It is not my desire (nor that of others) here to be a catalyst for anyone leaving this forum. But some will leave because they do not like the debating because they are uncomfortable with it themselves, or don't think it reflects well on Christ. Which I understand. Talk more later.
That looked exactly like the way you took it.
It deserved an explanation.
God bless.
Again, Thanks for pointing that out to me.
I would have never saw it.
Most of the time I post at night it's at bedtime and I don't have time to proof read.
And yes I will be praying for you and the family.
God bless.
Here's part 2.
We have Ephesians 4:1-13 touching on what's expected.
Vs 1) We are told to
walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.
Vs 2) Here's how we are to do it. "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Vs 3) Another Verse that brings clarity to what I posted.
"Endeavouring to KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE BOND OF PEACE.
Vs 4-13 ) We are gifted Christ Spirit and offices for him to perform in us. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Contrary to this is Vs 14 where there is no unity but yet DISTRACTIONS and deception.
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Gigi my post was about distractions that take us away from our Great commission.
We don't glorify the Lord that way.
My reply to Ronald was about, out of all the doctrines I mentioned, ( Eschatology, Soteriology, ect ect. Soteriology is the most important and most neglected.
And it is the only one that carries consequences if you get it wrong.
God bless.
I agree with you in this matter. I was just wanting to encourage you to begin conversation on this forum on soteriology since it seems the Lord has put that on your heart at this time. I look forward to these discussions.
I do want to say that any of us should follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit in our conversation here and elsewhere. It is not a distraction or divisive to discuss a wide range of topics here or elsewhere. We do need to enter such discussions as you said, humbly and lovingly, with forbearance and patience no matter what the topic. Discussing soteriology is always a good topic to discuss, but there are many other topics that speak to important doctrines taught in Scripture that aid in building up the church in wisdom and unity. We each should bring forward the topics the Holy Spirit is prompting us to do, for, as you said, there is one body and one Spirit.
I don't think there is a need for us to discuss this further as I do agree that we should desire unity and harmony as well as take time to speak the Gospel in situation that are presented to us by the Holy Spirit and that there are those who are new believers that may need further explanation on their recent conversion and new relationship with God in and through Jesus Chrsit.
Blessings to you, Steven, as always. I hope your evening goes very well. Will talk with you soon.
Our purpose is to glorify God.
Our mission is to take the Gospel out to the whole world whether on Church on the streets in the grocery store or on this site.
It's "shouldn't" be common that any Christian would refute that.
My post, and reply to Brother Ronald was concerning our mission.
However,
let's talk about Glorifying God for a moment in relations to what I posted.
Here goes.
An article on distractions.
"Remembering Jesus' Prayer for Unity
We all know the narrative in John 17. But let's revisit it.
John 17:11
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.
This was the last thing on Jesus' mind before he went to the cross. He could have been praying about anything, but he chose to pray about unity.
There is the heading Gigi to this whole conversation.
When we are as one we Glorify the Lord, not when we are divided.
Look at the previous verse.
John 17:10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.
We are many members but yet one body, one Spirit, and one Lord.
We glorify the Lord by carrying on his mission in Love not chaos.
God set up these different offices within the body for that cause!
I will post a few scriptures for lack of time and space.
Ephesians 4:1-3.
Ephesians 4:4.
Ephesians 4:7-8.
And last but certainly not least. Ephesians 4:11-13.
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST:
Till we all come in the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST:
We have built for a mission that Glorifies Christ!!
See Part 2. Staying right here in Ephesians.
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