Ephesians Chapter 2 Discussion Page 2

Hi my question is on once saved always saved . Some pastors / ministers of the gospel say yes you cannot loose your salvation . Others say you can loose your salvation once saved always saved is not biblical.

I just want the truth from the Word of God.

Which one does Gods word say . If your salvation is not secured in this life please explain the reasons you can lose your Salvation. Thank you God bless Yiu

Amen & Amine. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was put upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. Greater Love hath no man than this, that a man lay down His life for His friends. Thank You JESUS. You are my friend, We Love You because You first loved us, Your thoughts of good towards us are more than the sands of the seas. Oh LORD You are my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my GOD, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high place . Thank You Jesus

I am deeply grateful for this website in which I can read and listen to God's word. I often use it to learn the passage for Bible class in school the next day.

Simple things like not spelling Jesus with an I when you are not supposed to because you do away with the spiritual reference and or physical reference ultimately taking away the secret he wants to share with those who are seeking.and enough with correcting the so called mistakes most are" eye dialect" or "homophones" ex: vp ...eye dialect teaches you how to read and helps bring letters and their sound into use.....poyson &poison are homophones .do the etymology on poy and son .it's. not a liquid.this work of art is not archaic it just bothered knowah webster.ei:preface to his 1833 bible.

Rod. " Dear Heavenly Father, take me away ..." these are the words from my heart that I wrote as I began to pray .

Then my hand went still and God showed me a sheep standing lost and all alone .

Then the sheep turned as he heard God call for him and realized that he was not lost. just strayed a few feet away from the scattered flock.

I felt so lost, scared, and alone , just as this sheep as it was shown to me , Today i share this vision with you,, so you too can see. So you too can hear the Heavenly Father's voice in your heart,

That I , as the sheep , was not lost , I was exactly where I was supposed to be. Right here beside you.

God stretches forth his hand and draws his children near.

I fear to offend the Lord my God , and I am responsible for my words. Just as it was written before of what was , it was written before of what is, and it will be written of before of what is yet to be.

By the will of God and by Gods will alone if it be found worthy and true , it will be shown to who is chosen by God to see. This is the promise seed

Ecclesiastes5:1 walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil.

5:2 Do not be rash with your mouth,

And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.

For God is in heaven, and you on earth;

Therefore let your words be few.

5:3 For a dream comes through much activity,

And a fool's voice is known by his many words.

5:4 When you make a vow to God, do not delay to pay it;

For He has no pleasure in fools.

Pay what you have vowed-

5:5 Better not to vow than to vow and not pay.

5:6 Do not let your mouth cause your flesh to sin, nor say before the messenger of God that it was an error. Why should God be angry at your excuse and destroy the work of your hands?

5:7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there is also vanity. But fear God.

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into." 1Pe 1:10-12

"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God." 1Pe 1:20-21

Charles,

Thank you for your response. I do agree with you that Jesus' mission through most of His ministry was to the Jewish nation and not to the Gentiles. But the Nation rejected Him although many individual Jews believed. The very first converts on The Day of Pentecost were Jews from all over the world, who went back to their homelands with The Gospel. Peter's message had the death, burial and resurrection, but Peter was thinking of the revival of the Jewish nation. They even asked Jesus just before The Ascension, about that. Peter and those who were with them were astounded that Gentiles, a Roman soldier at that, could receive The Holy Spirit. They were not expecting that!

Paul met the "pillars" of the church and they compared his teaching with theirs and concluded that they had nothing to add to Paul's preaching. Their Gospel was Paul's Gospel: The Gospel.

I Cor 15:3-7 was a creed that Paul "received" from Peter & James most likely when he visited them 3 years after his conversion: a creed that originated within months of The Resurrection.

Oddly enough, the Apostle to the Gentiles writes Romans 9-11.

Rev 11:8

Jerusalem is spiritually Sodom and Egypt

America is spiritually Gomorrah

Russia & China's iron and clay days are coming

Ezekiel 21:19-20 calls out 2 prime targets for destruction: [Israel and America] Is it any wonder why these 2 treacherous dealers reap the whirlwind in the day of destruction?

19 Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city.

20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.

Greetings Marilyn,

God knows who the 144,000 are, and I'm sure they are righteous souls. The 2 witnesses from both houses of Israel are there to document anti-Christs crimes for trial, as required by the law.

Too many people think that Elijah and Moses are the 2 witnesses, which goes to prove how easy it is to be a slave to what someone else believes.

Too many people believe in a pre-6th trumpet, day of the Lord rapture. Rapture is not Bible doctrine. Luke 17: 34-37 Jesus describes those being "taken" at the day of the Lord's visitation. They ask him, Lord, where are they taken? Jesus says you will find the bodies where the vultures are gathered--(they're dead).

However, at the 7th trumpet, the few who make it through the great tribulation are given an air lift to Christ. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is how it's done. From an earlier question, Revelation 10:7 has a connection to Rev 11:15, providing resolution to the mystery.

I want more too. I'm sure 9-11-01 was Rev 9:1-11; the 5th trumpet sees mystery America terrorizing the world with their phony war on terror. It only makes sense that crooked America gets obliterated at the 6th trumpet, Revelation 9:13-21 by the beast. The Gematria screams inside job as well, God knows they love their witchcraft. Small example of the ritual: The Pentagon is 77 feet tall, it sits on the 77th meridian, and on 'September Eleventh' (77 Reduced Ordinal) was struck by fight 77, 77 minutes after takeoff, traveling at 530 mph (77 feet per second). World Trade Center = 77 (Full Reduction).

May God watch over you, Marilyn.

Connie, No apology necessary, I've been on this site for only a matter of a few short months myself, and yes I agree that the comments are varied in nature, but most I believe are meant to help us on our faith journey, I know it has helped me. If I may ask one question, do you believe that the narrow road to our salvation leads to the cross, and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Not sure if you have ever heard of Billy Graham, he passed away a bit ago, but his sermons are on you tube and some of his sermons are about the real meaning of the cross, and the importance of it.

Have a great day,

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

"Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Peter never preach that Christ died for our sins, His Gospel is different from Paul's Gospel to the Gentiles. In Matthew chapter tem Jesus commanded his disciples not to go to the Gentiles; the only exception is Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and preached to one Gentile in Acts 10. The Apostle John's Gospel to the Jews is John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Plainly the Gospel, but different. Plus the kingdom of God was taken from the Jews in Matthew 21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Paul had to explain his Gospel to the disciples about 18 years or so later. When Paul preach to 12 Jews in Acts 19, he preached almost the same gospel as Act 2:38. The Gospel for the Jews, and the Gospel for the Gentiles are plainly different.

Hello Peggy

Sorry for the delay.

Isa. 1:9, "Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and ye should have been like unto Gomorrah."

This remnant are the 144,000 virgins mentioned in Revelations.

Look at it this way.

On a human level male and females who have not experienced intercourse are said to be virgins.

All those who have not experienced unnatural sex, the sex of Sodom and Gomorrah are virgins in their relationship with God.

Rod I apologize for not responding sooner. Thank you for your kindness to reply. I have been put on trial by some comments about my relationship with God on a personal level and was thinking that i do not have anything to contribute to this site. I am very guilty of having an unchangeable heart.

I see so many answers to questions that i believe are unable to be answered by anyone when it comes to the way to salvation. So i just wanted to share my love for God. as unworthy as I have been to receive such an overwhelming personal experience with God, who is my Heavenly Father. Thank you so much and i hope that my testimony brings you comfort that God is truly within those who search for him. Thank you for your reply.

'Sacha'!

Thank you again.

We are instructed to believe Jesus came 2000 years ago and said, "Repent: for the kingdom of Heaven (on earth) is at hand" Matt 4:17. At hand means within reach. If we were to believe that we are waiting for the first coming of Jesus that explains the condition of human kind today. It also explains why Christianity has failed to convince all people to repent and bring heaven to earth. It explains why we have 3000 divisions within Christianity when truth should be the same for all people. It explains why many of those divisions will marry and ordain the gays, even thought they know God destroyed S&G. Even though they know God never changes. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Jesus brings a law, the Law of the New Covenant and he tell us who needs to listen to the Law. Isaiah 1:10: "Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. This is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord" When we put these lying children behind the pulpit we hear no truth. But Jesus will be the truth made flesh. His truth will heal our land.

Acts 17: 30, "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commanded all men every where to repent."

Repentance is the trans of a Greek word metanoia-mentanoeo, meaning to "have another mind", "to change the mind", "a change of mind in respect to sin, of God, and of self."

Rev. 3:19, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

God does love all humans and he comes to teach people to hate evil and to repent." The day of the Lord will come. I just don't see any evidence that he came 2000 years ago.

I hope that explains my

Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles, but very few Gentiles believe his gospel to be saved. I'm glad to know some one believes it.

Romans 3:10

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Romans 5:12

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Marilyn .

You are very optimistic ,i like that ,we cant even put an end to our own sins nevermind the whole worlds ,if we could do it we wouldnt need Jesus' sacrifice , God knows all of our sins and he knows that we all keep sinning every day so He provided the perfect sinless sacrifice for us ,not that we stop sinning but that God has provided a means by which He can FORGIVE our sins through the willing sacrifice made by His only begotten Son ,we all sin ! There are many different sins ,not just sexual ones ,God has found and provided a way by which He promises to FORGIVE out sins ,as Christians we all try very hard not to sin but we still do ,God understands us totally and knows that it not possible for us to stop sinning completely ,He loves us and wants us with Him so he devised a means by which He is able to forgive us if we trust and belive in His sinless Son and Jesus WILLING sacrifice . You have a big heart and a burning desire for your God and your Saviour i can tell ,keep reading keep praying ,thank God for your blessings and rejoice ! Christ is coming !

What does the bible say about leadership and who should do it ?

I don't believe that you, nor anyone else in this world, will be able to "put an end to sin". You must have a plan for this, so it would be interesting to know what that plan is. As far as I know, it's only the Cross of Christ that provides the sinner the only way to have his sins forgiven & be made acceptable to God. The Cross never removed man's sin, no matter how wicked the sin may be. So, if the Cross can't do it, do you really believe we can do better?

The Bible tells us that sin will one day be finally eradicated before the new heavens & earth are brought down, when Satan, his demons & his disciples, indeed death & Hell, are finally locked away in the Lake of Fire (Revelation chapter 20): all this tells me that sin, which is the very nature of Satan & his dominion will have no more access in the lives of mankind. I can't see how you or I could have any part in the eradication; if we can't properly deal with our present sin, we have little hope in dealing with the sins of the rest of mankind. But what we can do, is to share the Gospel of Love that brings forgiveness and reconciliation, that some other desperate sinful souls might be spared eternal death.

Thank you for letting me know. I am a little aggressive but only because I truly believe we need to understand the sin that began in Eden and has spread to the entire world. We need to put an end to that sin if we want the violence to end.

To continue, Charles, Jesus instruction NOT to go to the Gentiles was because His message initially was to the Jews ONLY. He was the Jewish Messiah, promised to Abraham, Moses and David to name the major names by many of the prophets. In fact Jesus told His disciples "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Mat 10:5-6

In Mat 15:21-28 Jesus has a strange conversation with a Gentile woman and repeats that "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Later in His ministry he sends out 70 in Luk 10:1-24. No mention here of Jews only.

Almost His entire ministry Jesus is focused on the Jews.

The reason, I believe, that Paul was the missionary to the Gentiles, is that as a Pharisee, he had studied the Old Testament prophecies about The Gentile nations. But The Gospel was no different: saving faith in Jesus Christ through His death and resurrection.

Marilyn its sacha ,what i said about an aggresive attitude ,that post was not meant for you ,please belive me it was meant for some one else ,i think i need to put the persons name on my messages in future ,im so sorry ,i promise faithfully it was not for you .

Hi Sacha,

I definitely believe in experiences, but I believe sometimes they are for you to keep in memory are a testimony but experiences is not confirmation. Salvation is by grace

" through faith " The second death is what he saves us from. The only experience we needed to see was Christ raised from the Dead. The antichrist Christ will come with all kinds of Miracles and wonders and decieve many. We can trust simply trust Christ Words. Believe tho in me?

Charles,

This is related to your question regarding the Gospel Creed in 1 Corinthians 15. I won't repeat the things I stated there other than to reiterate that that creed was delivered from Peter to Paul when Paul visited Peter 3 years after his Damascus Road conversion.

Keep in mind that Peter's sermon in Acts 2 was on The Day of Pentecost. It was addressed to Jewish people who were in Jerusalem from all over the world. Hence, the fact that they ALL understood Peter in their own tongue. The apostles believed, at this time, that The Gospel was ONLY for the Jews. In Acts 1 they asked Jesus, "Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" In spite of the words that Jesus told them that, "ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth," it took a persecution before The Gospel was preached in Samaria. And Peter had to have a special revelation before he was moved to go to preach to a Gentile Roman officer.

Bottom line, though is that Peter's gospel and Paul's gospel were not different in any way. Remember what Paul write the churches in Galatia.

Paul speaks of his first meeting Peter:

"Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days." Gal 1:18

14 years later he gies back to meet with Peter, James and John:

"Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also." Gal 2:1

Paul tells them what he has been preaching and find that they are all in synch:

"But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:" Gal 2:6

They all believe that Peter has been called to preach to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles:

"(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)" Gal 2:8

Charles, yes, this ancient creed is perhaps the earliest formulation of the essence of The Gospel. Paul was writing to the church at Corinth in about 55 AD. He had been there earlier, as he stated, "I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received."

We know it was a creed, because it has a cadence to it and repeated words that are characteristic of creeds...

"

How that Christ died for our sins

According to the scriptures;

And that he was buried,

And that he rose again the third day

According to the scriptures:

And that he was seen of Cephas,

Then of the twelve:

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

After that, he was seen of James;

Then of all the apostles.

"

So Paul "delivered" this creed earlier to the Corinthians, but when was it that Paul "received" this creed?

Many believe it was when he visited Peter in Jerusalem 3 years after his conversion. This would have been 3 to 5 years after the Crucifixion. So if Paul "received" this creed at that time, it had to have been in use by Christians earlier than 3 to 5 years after the Crucifixion. Some believe that this creed came into use within months after Jesus died and arose from the dead. Nonetheless, it is one of the pieces of evidence for The Resurrection and Gary Habermas has done quite a bit of research work on this topic.

Yes, I am aggressive. I only repeat what the Bible states. We live in a violent time. If we want the violence to end we must believe what the Bible says. We live in a wicked time. If we want heaven on earth we must believe truth.

The day is coming when all people will return to God.

Ps. 34:11: "Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the Lord." I will teach you to hate evil.

"Fear not: Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people" ( Luke 2:10).

We can expect great joy to all people.

I agree ,so many people have told me about their 'mystical experiences ' and when i ask them about where they were or what they were doing more often than not they will say something like ' i had just woke up ' or 'i was just drifting off to sleep when ...' i would never dare to disparrage any ones genuine belief in their personal revelations , i believe God does speak to us ,i also believe that when He does He does not leave us with even the tinniest bit of doubt that it is Him speaking .

Charles R. Peek,

I have in gospel presentations, as well as having it printed on my checks in the signature area(verses 3&4 only). Have you, and why do you ask?

Connie,

You say,"I am constantly told that my love for God is not going to save me

from my sins." Your description of your love for God leaves out what knowing

God produces in the mind and heart of believers, namely, his love for you.

You say you know him as a guide and suddenly you confess wisdom to choose

him.

"This is my where my relationship with God began." The experience you describe

is indeed awful, and in surviving it you could attribute that to the mercy of

God, but it does not indicate/or merit eternal salvation. After all, as you

said," I can turn back to it if i choose to." Maybe you've had what is

recognized as a "foxhole confession", Oh God get me out of here and I'll

believe in you. That's rational thinking, but it is the will of the flesh and

not salvation. So now you profess two beginnings with God, both pre-Jesus.

"I fear judgment. I live a life that I can proudly say is moral and kind.

I am not without sin. But I trust God to guide me. Understand?"

Yes I do and so do others on this site. It is no accident that you are here

and talking about salvation. Salvation is traditional only because it is the

same for everyone, only through trust in the death of Jesus for your sins.

You can't earn it and nobody deserves it. When I said you don't mention his

love for you, that is evident in that you "fear" judgement. You seem to

prefer a "blind faith" that somehow things will just work out for you.

God and his plan for salvation is understandable and that's what you are

being pointed to by myself and others on this site.

On the top of the opening page of this site is a menu selection called

more. On that page is a selection called "How to become a Christian".

There salvation is spelled out for you or anyone to understand.

Charles,

I had no part in the preparation of this site, however, I want to try and answer your question from an unbiased stance.

First of all I do not see your perspective of "in light of" to have any bearing on the choice of passages used, rather, the two verses you bring to the question differ in their perspective. While both are excellent choices for someone who knows little or nothing of the Bible, the passage in Acts meets the "response" portion of the section header more clearly. About the only difference I can see is the understanding of the Lord's resurrection being important to the entire thought of what a person is to believe/trust about Jesus, as stated in 1Corinthians. Now that you mention the plan, I see it as regretful that it is slightly hidden in the index of the site, but I do understand that the site is all about the KJV and not the plan of salvation in particular. I have seen that the discussion section of the site is not without discussion about what salvation is and is not.

Has anyone used 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" as the Gospel to believe to be born again?