Ephesians Chapter 2 Discussion Page 9

Hi Lynn,

I noticed you didn't cite any Bible verses to back up your belief, so where does this belief come from? Did a church pastor tell you this or how did you come to such a conclusion that "If a person kills/murders another deliberately, that is a crime, not a sin... "

Is God ok with ALL sin then? Fornication or adultery is not illegal, so if someone wants to commit that tonight, are you saying that God is ok with that and it isn't a sin? If so, where in the Bible does it support this idea?

As you may know, Satan is the father of lies. He deceives people, including Christians to get people to justify sin and turn from Jesus. So, one of us is incorrect, because truth is not relative. There's only 1 truth. So, if Satan deceived one of us, which is more likely, that satan would deceive a Christian into being more obedient to God than he needs to (how awful), or that satan deceives a Christian into believing that sin is ok, and good, and there's nothing wrong with following the world and committing evil, because it's already forgiven. Which of those 2 things is most likely satan's choice to deceive a Christian?

I have prayed about this and 100% disagree with what you said, have a mountain of scripture to back it up, and have prayed and asked God to know the truth and I believe with all my heart that murder is a sin, fornication is sin, adultery is a sin, cursing is sin. The 2 greatest commandments from Jesus you claimed that 'replaced' the moral law did replace it, but added to it and made it even MORE restrictive and HARDER to follow. Example Matthew 5:28.Let me ask this- are you 100% following Jesus's 2 commands? How do you know if you're truly loving God with all your heart, soul and mind? Wouldn't obeying God's law and avoiding sin be a part of loving Him? 1 John 1:8, John 8:34. How about loving your neighbor as yourself. Have you done this 100% perfectly all your life? If you are without sin then are you better than Jesus? 1 John 4:20, Romans 3:23.

Hello Adam, Clearly you misinterpreted what I said.. :) I said, there is a difference between Sin and Crime... The only way one can become a sinner is to be party with God to the Covenant Law that God gave to Moses to give to the Israelites. If one believes that Covenant Law applies to them in any way it means they still need a Savior to be freed from that Covenant Law which is also called the Law of Sin and Death....

Crime has to do with the law of the land in which one lives... If one breaks the law of the land, they become a criminal not a sinner because they would be party to the gov't of that land in which they live.

And no this in no way whatsoever means one can deliberately kill anyone and get away with it... No one will get away with deliberate murder whether they are party with God to the Covenant Law or whether they are party to the gov't's law of the land...

For ex: I was freed from the Covenant Law that I believed applied to me that continually had me believing I was a sinner and that I always must be doing something to please God for everything I thought I had done wrong.

Once freed from the Covenant Law I am still subject to the law of the land in which I live... However, I have no desire whatsoever to break the laws of the land so not worried about becoming a criminal, but IF I ever should break the law of the land I will pay the penalty for whatever I do wrong in the eyes of the law of the land... That still does not make me a sinner because I was freed from being a sinner at the cross... I would simply be a criminal...

When Paul said sin dwelled in him. or something to effect, what Paul was meaning was the "knowledge of sin" dwells within him... It was far more difficult for Paul being as he was an Israelite and had lived under Covenant Law all his life... Lynn :)

Hello Chris, One must have a complete understanding of why ALL crimes are not sin... This is the reason Jesus could not be crucified according to the Covenant Law because he had done nothing worthy of sin so the Jews had him crucified under Roman Law, the law of the land. Paul was an expert in both Covenant Law and Roman Law, two completely different laws... Sin did not apply to Roman Law... Sin applies only to the Covenant Law that God gave to Moses to give to the Israelites... If one believes the Covenant Law that was given to the Israelites that defines sin, applies to them, that means that person has never believed in the finished work of the cross for their self...

In other words, this is the reason one must have a complete understanding of why their was a need for a Savior and why their Savior is the Lord Jesus Christ..

Everyone that has been freed for the Covenant Law, which is the Law of Sin and Death, has been freed via their belief that they were freed at the cross and that "sin" no longer applies to them...

However that does not mean that "crime" does not apply because one is subject to the law of the land in which they live and if they break the law of the land they become a criminal and should pay the penalty that is required by the law of their land for that crime... Lynn :)

All crimes are sin as the Bible determines. However, our governments don't like the word 'Sin' (it would be too religious & has an 'undesirable connotation') so we instead have the word 'crime'. So if someone commits murder, a righteous government would say: "a grievous sin has been committed before God & man" but you'll never hear that said.

Hi Lynn, I've never heard anyone say it's ok to kill people, especially from a Bible-reader, that its not immoral and not a sin, so this is a first. So, if this were true that civil law is the only thing making killing wrong then it would be totally fine to kill outside of a country's borders and laws? So its 100% fine for a Christian to harm others as long as there's no civil law where you are, such as in open waters, or on a remote island, or in space? Even most atheists and satan worshippers believe killing is immoral. The Bible does not support this idea and one would have to ignore a mountain of scripture to cherry pick something and massively distort it to even come remotely close to justifying this, however, I'm open to seeing your supporting scripture for this idea, because Jesus directly said he didn't destroy the law in Matthew 5:17. Paul still wrestled with sin and tried very hard to avoid it and this was after Jesus's resurrection, if there was no such thing as sin then Paul wouldn't have said all that in Romans 7. God bless.

Hello Adam, Jesus said that prior to his death and resurrection.. His death took away the sin of the world.. there are only 2 commandments, Love the Lord Thy God with all Thy Heart and all Thy mind and all Thy soul, and Love one another... On these 2 commandments rest ALL the Law and the Prophets...

If a person kills/murders another deliberately, that is a crime, not a sin... The crime committed is judged according to the Law of the land in which one lives... Lynn

Hello, my opinion is that Jesus did not destroy the law, but fulfilled it, because Jesus literally said that in Matthew 5:17. I also believe the moral law still applies, such as do not kill. If we do, that's a sin. Jesus said go and sin no more. If sin didn't exist or was impossible for us to sin, then he wouldn't have kept warning and talking about the parables over and over to his followers (Christians). God bless.

My comments are on verses 14-16 where the Lord Jesus Christ completely destroys the Old Testament, Christ is our peace who has made both Jew and Gentile one new man as a Christian, he alone has broken down the middle wall being the O/T which separates Jews and Gentiles. Having abolished, meaning to destroy in his flesh that O/T which kept the Jews and Gentiles at war, this is the law of Moses that had commandments contained in ordinances, in order to make in himself from two people a new man being a Christian, reconciling both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross having killed the Old Testament.

Any of my brothers or sisters out here 222 Flame of God.

One definition of the word remission is forgiveness, with another being "the cancellation of a debt". So we find the words forgiveness and remission being very related to each other, with that idea that JESUS forgives sin, and brings it into remission, making it as if it never happened.

We are indeed "washed clean" of offenses that we've committed before coming into relationship with the Lord, and of mistakes that we make afterwards when we ask Him to forgive and help us with those troubles.

Example Scripture: "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins"

Matthew 26:28.

what is the difference(s) between forgiveness and remission of sin

IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD. Just as the potter moulds a clay,i am a handwork in the hands of my father and he has shaped me unto good works. We can look at a thing and say that it is round or curved so also my shape is righteousness. Through the rich mercy of God,i am dead to sin and alive to him. Christ is my nature and as a result of it i no longer strive to be without sin because it do not function in my world. I am the righteousness of God in christ Jesus, pure as snow and no spot can be found in me.

Comments by alex about jew or gentile according to the promise ephesians 2 v 15 he took of the twain ( jew and gentile ) and made 1 newman which is the h.g. our new innerman.according to the seed of the sower that will initiate a new innerman the child of promise th new birth. my lil children of whom i travail in birth till christ is formed in you.which answers to our new heart and new spirit. god so loved the world meaning everybody, as god is no respector of persons.jacob n esau, he wants to steal our birth right which was a death penalty the soul that sinneth shall surely die and give us a new birth rite ( eternal life ) is our new birth rite thats y he said i come as a thief in the nite.

Very true. We must continue along this path of faith with fruits of the spirit until we stand before the judgement seat.

Ephesians 2 Has to be one of the greatest chapters in all of the bible because it tells us we do not have to work to obtain our salvation. It is given as a gift when we trust Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour and repent of our sins.

"First, God has a multitude of servants, and all these are on the side of believers. "His camp is very great," and all the hosts in that camp are our allies".

Thanks Fred. I agree with you. Heaven is our home.
Mrs Ezeomedo please.

Well said.

Very good Mr.Ezeomedo, Thou are not far from the kingdom of God.The condition you speak of is a carnal condition,the tilting flesh you refer to.Paul speaks in Ephesians about the "spirit of wisdom and revelation and the power "given to those who believe and trust in the Christ. The Resurrection of the body of Christ , is who we abide in. Paul uses the word "Fills all in all" Our father gives us all power, that which is above all according to his will. This is the condition of being in light verses being in darkness. The temple is the temple of body Christ raised in 3 days, this is the temple we abide in .He is the head of the body the church who we serve.

Because of the uniqueness of man, many things contend to occupy his soul with the aim of making him loose sight of who he is. Because we naturally tilt toward the physical, we end up loosing touch of the spiritual and the consequences are rebellion, loss of identity, loss of purpose in life, and of power to bring them to bear and eternal death as a result. A process of re acquisition was started and headed by Christ and an ultimate price was paid with his life. Now, the blood is made available so that we can re access our original position with him, the saints,the prophets and the apostles in a brotherhood relationship where he is the anchor leading us to God through the holy spirit. JESUS.

In the Name of God the Father Almighty Jesus Christ the Only begotten Son of God And the HOLY SPIRIT

praying for wisdom to understand

the tares are revealing themselves by standing tall high and proud in their works based pharisee salvation, the wheat are bowing down to the King and his works knowing that he did it all and there is nothing they can add to the glorious work he did on the cross for our salvation.

My dear works alone don't save anyone, neither does faith alone. Grace is what saves, but a person is saved by grace through faith Ephesians 2:8 . And how does one knows that one is truly a partaker of grace through faith? By one's works. Faith without works is dead, Works alone won't get anyone into Heaven, but no one will be in Heaven who didn't have "faith which WORKS by love." Galatians 5:6

My dear, works don't save anyone by itself , neither does faith by itself . Grace is what saves, but a person must lay hold of grace by faith. And how is it one knows that a person is, through faith, a true partaker of grace? By their works. Faith without works is dead. Works won't take anyone to Heaven, but no one will be in Heaven who didn't have "faith which WORKS by love." Galatians 5:6

you are not going to heaven if you think you can add your good works or righteousness to the work of Jesus Christ to get salvation. it is in the works of Christ alone that we are saved, not of our works least any should boast.

God is Holy 'loving perfect God and we have to thank him for dieing on the cross

EPHESIANS: PAUL: wrote this short Epistle, with 3-others:PHILIPPIANS: COLOSSIANS: PHILEMON: during his imprisonment: emphasis: unity of both: JEWS

Eph. 2:14: When Our Lord died on Calvary’s Cross, the Veil of the Temple was Torn in Two. From the top to the bottom! Now we can go Straight to God? We do not have to go through an earthly Priest anymore? Our Lord JESUS CHRIST is Our HIGH PRIEST! That veil of Partition is removed for ever. We now have only ONE HIGH PRIEST! HE ALONE CAN FORGIVE SINS! NO OTHER: WHETHER IN HEAVEN OR HERE ON EARTH!

Verse 2~The spirit that we see in the world is a spirit of disobedience and rebellion against Jehovah God and his standards.