Genesis Chapter 1 Discussion Page 11

So nice

Hello, when I read Genesis I see one creation account. Can you please share why you believe there is two?

There were or are 2 creation events. God created all the races first 1st in Gen.1.26-28, then after God rested from his work. He created Adam and Eve whom Eve would be called the mother of all living, meaning that Christ would come through their seed, and If you are not living in Christ you are not considered living. All the races were in the world when Cain spoke of someone killing him in Gen. 4.13-14, proving that there were other people besides Adam and Eves family.

Hey Phil,

This is a question that comes up and you will receive different understandings. Are we to say who is right and who is wrong? No. When we study, we must be careful and do not attempt to make the biblical narrative conform to some preconceived framework we bring to it.

If there were people before Adam and Eve, does it change anything? Do we overlook scripture that infers that God did create other people before Adam and Eve? Do we overlook the fowl which the water brought forth on day five doesn't match the fowl God formed out of the ground after He formed Adam out of the dust of the ground when Adam was alone?

Same with the beast of the field formed out of the ground after Adam when the beast of the earth was on day six before man, male and female? Could Adam and Eve be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and have dominion over every living thing that moveth upon the earth that God had created when they were in the garden of Eden?

If we consider, God told them to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion over the earth after they were taken out of the garden, could God have said after day six everything was very good? After the flood, all are descendants of Adam and Eve, so Eve is the mother of all living. The line that leads us the the last Adam Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 In this, Jesus our Lord said to be the second man, the last Adam, my understanding goes to 1 John 3:8. We must keep in mind who sinned first and is the father of lies John.8:44. The first Adams purpose was more than starting mankind but starting the plan of salvation that is in the second man, the last Adam Jesus Christ, we take off the old man and put on the new man, Colossians 3:8-10.

May the Holy Spirit bring you to your understanding. I pray I do not confuse with my different understanding.

God bless,

RLW

Phil I hear ya but how can there be 2 different Creations...When God tells Eve that she is the MOTHER of all living...That 1 scripture kinda eliminates 2 Creations... Gen 3 : 16 KJV

Hi Phil. In my understanding, there is only one creation account in these first two chapters in Genesis. The first chapter details God's creative Work over the six days & in chapter 2, we read from verse 4 further details of some of that creation, especially of the creative act of Adam & then Eve. I realize that some folk see these accounts as two, but as the Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:45, "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (meaning, Jesus) was made a quickening spirit", referring back to Genesis 2:7. We should understand that Adam was indeed the first human being according to the Scriptures, & there is never any reference in the Bible to any other pre-Adamic creation of human-like creatures. If they did exist, then some information would be given as to their lives, any sin, or their eventual annihilation - but we read nowhere about this.

Likely for the same reason there are four different Gospel accounts recording some of the same facts from different perspectives and in different ways.

Why are there two creation accounts in Genesis?

KJV when was the world created? In which year??

The verse where Paul asks in 1 Tim. 5:23 where Paul gives instruction to Timothy to drink a little wine clearly shows that there are medicinal purposes that can be recommended. It was used as an anaesthetic until recent times; and as with any other substance it can be abused.

There are multiple issues here that need to be addressed. First; there is our own history and whether it involved any substance abuse. Obviously for an alcoholic; drinking is not an option-the world knows this even if they don't follow that advice or are incapable of doing so. Secondly; careful introspection shows that there are few who would drink without once desiring the relaxed state it produces. With a meal; and with a family member (as in the wedding at Cana) it certainly could be permitted.

A bigger issue is that we should not do anything to cause a brother (or anyone else) to fall into sin. If we are in any group of people it is likely someone there is an alcoholic or prone to sin with drinking. It is probably unusual and difficult in our own families to ensure that everyone there doesn't have that issue.

I don't know much about wine; although I have tasted "non alcoholic" beer and can't tell the difference. We should note that those with diabetes also have to be careful. Beer in particular with it's carbohydrates leading to spikes in sugar levels aren't going to stay healthy drinking a lot. Clearly; if we can drink it is in small amounts and drunkenness is always a sin.

Hello Debra:

The Bible does not say it is sinful to drink alcohol, but it does say that drunkenness is sinful. See Isaiah 5:11, Proverbs 20:1. Ephesians 5:18 tells us not to be drunk with wine, but to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:11 and Romans 13:13 and Galatians 5:21 all list drunkenness or drunkard as sinful.

God said not to eat from the Two Trees, he forbad them to. Love means simple obedience.

In our hearts most know the things that God does not approve of. Choosing obedience does not involve feelings. We choose God over feelings and temptations. Choosing Him almost always brings immediate rewards.

I learned God helps us to see "the ditches", before we fall into one.

Adam and Eve ate that for bitten friut

* 1Peter 5:8, Proverbs 20:1, Proverbs 23:29-35, Ephesians 5:18,

1Thessalonians 5:5-10, 1Timothy 3:2,11, Titus 1:8, Titus 2, 1Peter 1:13, 1Peter 4:7, Leviticus 10:9, Leaders, priests, Numbers 6:2-4,

There are a two stories in Genesis that shows negative results.

Deuteronomy 32:33, Proverbs 21:17, Isaiah 5:10-23, Isaiah 28:7,

Proverbs 31:4-7,

Hopefully these are helpful

yes it is a sin to me

Is it a sin to drink alcohol?

Because of the penalty of sin. Not His rather ours. To understand go back to the Garden. The first sin was not the eating of the forbidden fruit. That was the manifestation of the first sin which was that Adam and eve believed that God was a liar. The lie He was accused of was that they " shall not surely die". They did and were sentenced to death. Why were they kicked out of the garden? Not because of sin. That penalty is death. The second death which is To be un existed. Can you sneak up on God and take something from Him that He said you cannot have? Of course not. Gen 3:22 states that they were removed from the Garden of Eden BEFORE they eat of the tree of life and live Forever. BEFORE. And from the pulpits today were are taught that when we depart this existence we shall go to Heaven and live forever, or to he'll and live forever, BUT YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE. Jesus took on the sins of the entire world. He died the second death to pay the penalty in our stead. He took to the grave sin and death. When He raised from the DEAD He left behind sin and death and now brings us out of the grave of non existence. Now is mankind offered the gift of eternal life.

Dear Ed,

I guess this is part 3

Death keeps humanity from total destruction of anything good that God has created in us as a whole. think of how corrupt do not mankind had become before the flood in just 10 generations. Only Noah was walking with God in faith. Yet Adam had lived to about year few hundreds years or so before Noah was born along with Seth living even closer to Adam's time. (if the chronologies/geneologies do not skip generations.) It seems that mankind even welcomed relationships with fallen angels!

( Genesis 6 as some interpret it). Satan had a heyday in this pre-flood time. His work in mankind brough about the a humanity that acted more like Him than creatures made in God's image.

So, in this sense, death was a merciful judgment for our sin because God, in His foreknowledge knew this would happen to humanity if they lived forever like Satan and his fallen angels, and in knowing all things, the plan of the Godhead was to redeem humanity from sins and death to a better existence than that of the original humans created at the beginning (Adam and Eve)

God determined that man, being mortal would receive a salvation from sin that Satan and his fallen angels would never receive. So, in this, His judgment of Satan is more severe than that of death for us. We have the hope of the resurrection to eternal life where there will be no sin. This is the final victory over Satan and sin, which originated with him. God triumphs in and through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ over sin and death, but most markedly, over Satan, despoiling him of power and devices upon all who believe in Jesus.

When we think that Satan was indeed the top angels among all the ones created by God, in the end he will have the lowest place possible of all God's creatures. Thus, God's justice is completed.

Dear Ed,

I hope you are helped by these replies. But I as wondering if you were actually asking why, of all that God could determine, was it determined that humans should die if we sin (because the fallen angels did not die); and also, then, why was it decided that the way for man to be saved was for God the Son to be incarnated into human flesh and die for our sins.

That is a much deeper question that the Scriptures do not define very thoroughly. I believe that the answer remains in the councils of the Godhead when the plan for creation and salvation was chosen before anything had been made, even before the angels were created. So, any explanation by man is opinion, but we can base our opinion on what we know about God's character revealed in Scripture and nature.

For me, I think that God decided that death would be the result of sin because He is Life and Holiness itself. Therefore, sin not only is disobedience and rebellion towards Him, but it also makes us corrupt and unholy, and unworthy of being in relationship with God or receiving eternal life in heaven with Him, (which is what He purposed for us to receive). Death does not allow us to have any of these wonderful benefits. It permanently separates us from God and His goodness (which is always benevolent to His living creatures). In death, we cannot benefit from the beauty and majesty of creation or the joy of relationships with one another or any other good that God has bestowed on all of creation. Death demonstrates to man that sin is very serious and should not be taken lightly by us. Death reminds us that our sinfulness separates us from God. Death makes us desire salvation.

I also think that God, in His wisdom, decided that the penalty for sin is death because He also knew ahead of time that Satan and his fallen angels (who do not die) would become totally corrupt and evil and irredeemable. He knew that if man did not die, we would be come just like Satan. Death spares us from being like him.

Hello Ed. Good to meet you here.

Romans 6:23 states that the wages of sin is death. This is exactly what God told Adam and Eve would happen if they disobeyed His command concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

2Cor. 5:21 says that He (the Father) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we may become the righteousness of God in Him (Jesus). Jesus took the totality of the sins of all humanity upon Himself on the cross to pay the full penalty of sin that we deserved for us. In His suffering and death the Father spent His wrath upon Jesus for our sins, effecting forgiveness for us. Also, He exchanged our sins for his righteousness through His death for us.

Jesus said to the disciples in the Last Supper Discourse that greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. (15:13) Here the Lord is telling of His death as the greatest act of love He can do for them (and us who believe). So, His death is His sacrificial love poured out for our benefit not His. the removal of our sin from us by His death reconciles us to God in such a way that we become friends of God instead of enemies; allows God to look upon us instead of away from us because He cannot look upon sin. We have the righteousness of God in us instead of our sinfulness. Hell is just this, God tuning away from those who remain His enemies due to their unbelief. This is because their unbelief prevents them from accessing the benefits of Christ's atoning death. They will forever be without God, without His mercy, without His grace, without His salvation.

Jesus' death breaks the power of sin in our lives and rescues us from hell and the devil's claim upon us. But even more, His death brings to us a future with God in heaven forever. Salvation is not just for this life, but for the life we will receive at the resurrection of our bodies. This was won for us through the resurrection of Jesus. Jesus said that He is the Resurrection and the Life. Jn. 11:25-26.

Hi Ed.

I believe others have very well covered the wages of sin is death and Christ as the sacrificial Lamb.

Romans 6:23.

Hebrews 9:22.

1 Peter 1:18-20...ect.

I would like to give attention to the importance of the resurrection.

If you noticed in 1 Peter 1:18-20. it says Christ crucifixion was ordained before the foundation of the world.

If we consider that verse with

1 Corinthians 15:45-50. and particular on 1 Corinthians 15:45. The life giving spirit now dwells in us and could only come by us being baptized in Christ death, "Cruxifying the old man which we had in Adam.

And we are also baptized in his resurrection.

We could have never gotten that by Adam.

And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Jn. 12:23-26.

I've seen it quoted like this:

By rising from the dead, Jesus Christ demonstrated that He had cleansed the guilt of our past and is able to help us in our present lives. His resurrection assures us that our future is safe and secure. Without Christ's resurrection we would have no salvation from sin, and no hope for our own future resurrection.

The empty tomb is proof of Christ's deity. End quote.

God bless.

Jesus didn't HAVE to die. He chose to.

John Chapter 10

16 And other sheep I have

(Gentiles), which are not of THIS fold (the Jewish believers): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be ONE fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man take it (His Life) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Why? John 3:16

Jesus had to die because GOD had always required a blood sacrifice as payment for sin. Remember in the garden of Eden when dam and Eve sinned God Killed a lamb or shed innocent blood to make a covering for their bodies, thus providing a covering for sin. That's where it started and if you remember Cain and Able, Cain offered a sacrifice not of blood and GOD rejected it.Now if you're asking why all that when GOD can do anything he could have done it anyway he wanted because he is GOD? Well I' not sure anybody could answer that honestly. There are a lot of people that try to explain GOD. That's like trying to bring GOD down to our level. The word of GOD says HIS way's are much higher than our's. We will never understand all about GOD here on earth that's why we accept GOD's word by faith.

Hiya Forum ppl of God ...Lemme give ya my slant on y Jesus had to die...Its was b/c God Almighty wanted to make a new covenant with humanity. A blood Covenant...But it was woven in the great Promise at the Cross .. Zech 13 : 7 ...Smite the Sheperd and the sheep will be scattered....Then i will turn my hand to the little Ones...That was the great Promise of multiplication...His lil ones...The babes and the sucklings...our new heart and new spirit...Jesus told the Greeks unless a Seed dies it abides alone but if it dies it will bring forth much Fruit...The lil ones...thats y the new birth is so important...Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...Not only did he die but by his blood, but a new covenant was enforced, the multiplication of his seed , Zech 12 : 10...They shall look on me whom they have pierced at the Cross...And mourn for him as an only Son....and be in bitterness as one who is in bitterness for his 1st born..our new innerman is our 1st born which is the Child of Promise the H.G....His multiplication in the spritual realm...Thats y he always refers to himself as the SON OF MAN...Mankind, humanity is gona have a Baby Christ which is the H.G. our 1st born our only son that Child of Promise the H.G..We have been in mourning for 2k yrs for our 1st born,our only son in the spirit which is the H.G. That Son of Promise is the H.G...Thats y Jesus refers to the H.G. AS THE Promise ...The H.G. is the result of his seed his words...Even his breath which is his Words...Because of his death we are gonna birth a 1st born an only son..They shall be in bitterness as one who is in bitterness for his 1st born, his only son...The result of his DEATH is gona be a Baby Christ ,our 1st born our only son...Thats y the Woman in Rev 12 : 5 is giving birth, the Child is her 1st born Her only Son...A kingdom Child...Truly i say unto you unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...the Promise was multiplication.

Why did Jesus have to die?

Happy Sabbath Richard

In reply to your discussion about there does not appear to be a clear indication whether man was created on or before the sixth day (on the 5th). Man's creation was said to be VERY good; putting it above all else apparently.

I refer to KJV Genesis 1:27, 31, where it says, 27: " So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them

31: And God saw every thing that he made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2:1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

The sun, moon and stars were created the fourth day, not the third. My summary is:

The first set of three days all involve division in relationship to waters: division over waters, division vertically between waters (establish earth's atmosphere and pre-flood waters above 2 Peter 3:5-6) and division horizontally/gathering of waters to reveal land with plants/trees made for food

The next set of three days create bodies that fill and/or establish God's ordained rule over the divisions in the same order. Celestial bodies, flying and swimming bird and fish bodies, land animal bodies that eat green herbs without seed and man/woman bodies that eat herbs and fruit with seed.

Christ rose in three days, which likely is why there are two groups of three days in which God's purpose in creating things unfolds differently in the first three days of creation from the second set of three days in creation. This is consistent with God's shift in direction between the Old and New Testament dispensations that are defined by whether they preceed or follow the good news of Christ's resurrection.

The Old Testament continually divided people to make it clear who the Christ was when he appeared. Now that Christ is revealed and resurrected the New Testament message is filling the earth with good seed mixed with bad, filling the nets with good fish mixed with bad, filling the wedding hall with invited guests who are ready or unprepared, etc.

God, through Christ and His angels will dispense the final separation of the bad and gathering of the good to establish God's Sabbath rest in the new creation.

Good afternoon, Richard.

Good post!

One thing for me, I think that time/space laws began as soon as God created the universe, in the beginning. I think this because of anything was moving, changing, (think rotation, gases coming together in galaxies, universe expanding, water moving over the earth, any chemical/molecular/atomic reactions) then all these things are done within time/space because there is a passage of time between one molecule merging into two, or atomic activity of electrons, neutrons, and protons. Sometimes we do not think about these things (moving, changing, reacting) this way, but it actually does indicate time had begun with the beginning at the coming to be of the first thing God created.

The creation story is to be taken as true; as opposed to evolution which forces us to not only alter the first chapters of the Bible; but other references of creation in Psalms; Job; and numerous other Old and New Testament texts. There is the "gap" theory; due to a parallel verse in Zechariah describing the situation in verse 2 with the earth being "without form and void" which some take as the time frame between the creation of angels and spirit beings allowing the time for Lucifer's fall; and possible rule over the spiritual world that could explain the apparent much older appearance of the age of the universe. No time to explore that here.

Verse 3 introduces the creation of "light" from darkness and the rotation of the earth separates it with nights and days. It should be noted; however that this appears BEFORE all references to the sun; moon AND all stars. It could be the light of God Himself; or OTHER sources of light explaining the establishment of principles (speed of 186,000 miles a second and other space/time rules) were established by the Lord at that time. We see in verses 6 through 13 the seas being created followed by the grass of the earth. Grass has always been a mystery as to it's origins; and it appears that the heat and light source may have come from earth itself at that time for that and the trees and herbs as well. That would make sense if hell was created at that time for the Devil and his angels. Just a thought.

The third day finally brings the greater light (sun) and lesser light (moon) AND all the stars being created. (v. 13-18). The fourth day through the fifth there was creation of the sea creatures followed by animals; then man. There doesn't seem to be a clear indication whether man was created on or before the sixth day (on the 5th). Man's creation was said to be VERY good; putting it above all else apparently.

The Bible and specifically Jesus say many things about money, and no short response can fully cover this topic. All Christians need God's grace and wisdom to use money properly and to find repentance and forgiveness when we don't. I will start with what Jesus said about riches.

Matthew 13:22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

In this verse riches (money in abundance) chokes the word when we rely on it to stand by us and shield us from the cares of the world more than we do God.

Riches are deceitful, because they will betray the promises we think we can trust them for at the moment we need it most. This is shown by the parable of the man who abundantly prospered on earth and stored up huge earthly provisions for the future, but the moment he set his heart on it he died as a fool in God's sight. He left it all to others without tasting any of the future he imagined he would gain from it and had to give an account for his soul to the God who had just called him a fool.

God is truthful, and promises to deliver even more than we ask or think when we trust Him based on His promises. When we do that, the Holy Spirit assures our hearts that He will never leave us when we need Him most. God cares for us apart from money, like He does the birds who daily get what they need without toiling their lives away for money or storing up the daily things they need in advance for the future. That is why in the Lord's prayer we say "Give us this day our daily bread" and we don't say "Give us this day more bread than we could ever eat in our lifetime".

In writing this I have to confess I need repentance and forgiveness for living many years as a Christian and not understanding what I just wrote. I have much more in common with the fool in the parable than I like, and I am trying to really take these words to heart before I give my account.