Genesis Chapter 1 Discussion Page 22

Hi Brother Earl.

I believe you gave us a view of the trinity. Gen. 1:1.In the beginning "El-o-heem'" created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 1:2.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the "SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now I'm not sure if you're saying Jesus was created in verse 3 or not but we are sure it's not so according to these verses.

( ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.)

In him was life; AND THE "LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN."

Colossians 1:16-17. For by him were all things created, that are in HEAVEN, and that are in earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THROWNS, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS: (all things were created by him, and for him:)

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

"Point here is we see Angels created here as well!!

And in Job 38:4-7. The Angels shouted for joy when Jesus created the Earth.

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

Now we know he didn't come in the 4th Day!

Gen 1:16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. THE SUN. "Also created!" You see a contrast of that light and the light of Jesus in

Revelation 21:23. and Revelation 22:5.

Revelation 3:14. Means in the sense Jesus is the origin and source of Gods creation. Colossians 1:15-18. and head of the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God bles

OSEAS, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

I haven't spent a lot of time letting the Spirit teach me the things in Genesis that have to be SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED. I KNOW there are THERE because EVERYTHING LITERAL has a PARALLEL that has to be SPIRITUALLY discerned. I know part of them because you can see them quite clearly; as JESUS was the first created light.

I spend most of my study in the prophets and Revelation and their relation to the New Testament and how we become the the likeness and image of Christ; which also has to be spiritually discerned. How and when we will be the judges with Christ in the kingdom of God. None of this can be seen, but is as REAL as God himself.

Ecclesiastes 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and afterwards that which is spiritual.

Hebrews 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the REMOVING of those things that can be SHAKEN, as of those things that are made, that those things which CANNOT BE SHAKEN shall remain.

I BELIEVE from reading you comments you understand that the literal has a parallel and that is what's REAL, the literal will DISAPPEAR.

When you have time, look at the story of Jacob (the literal) and the ladder to heaven, and replace Jacob with Jesus the REAL.

Genesis 28:10-22

John 1:51

I will study the seven days of creation in Genesis more; in the mean time; God willing, let us keep digging for the treasures of God's word (living and written), as the Spirit reveals them to us.

Thank you Dianne. I did read up on the Lamsa Bible (George Lamsa) & particularly on Matthew 27:46 & how he has interpreted it. I guess he has his own way of looking at the words & grammar, just as there are many variations of interpretations given by others (Westcott & Hort, etc). What was of interest & concern to me, was that he didn't connect Matthew 27:46 to Psalm 22:1, rather said "that the text of the Gospels was corrupt and that it is not a quotation but should read /Eli, Eli, lemana shabaqthani, which he translates as: "My God, my God, for this I was spared!" An accompanying footnote in Lamsa's English version of the Bible explains Jesus' meaning as "This was my destiny.""

If that being the case & he doesn't make the connection between the two portions of Scripture, then what else can one say? Thanks again for your input: I can now appreciate the basis of your understanding & interpretation, at least of these passages.

EARL

Have you ever perceived that JESUS came in the fourth Day? By the way, JESUS left very clear saying in the fourth Day when He came: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work- John 5:v.17. Even JESUS is saying and calling Himself as the Greater Light in Genesis 1. When JESUS came in the fourth Day He said: John 12:v.45-46:

45 - He that seeth me seeth Him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the WORLD, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.- This event of JESUS coming was the fulfillment of Genesis 1:v.18 :...and GOD divide the light from the darkness:and God saw that it was good.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth Day.

The Lesser Light is about the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, he has not light in he himself, his light comes from the Father throught JESUS, the Greater Light (by analogy physicaly the moon receives and reflects the light of the sun), as JESUS said: John 16:7-15:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth;It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

...

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me:for he shall receive of mine,and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine:therefore said I, that he shall TAKE OF MINE,and shall shew it unto you.

Materialists confuse the biblical expression Greater Light and twist it when they say it is the Sun. Also they confuse the biblical expression Lesser Light and twist it when they say it is the Moon. Physically the Sun and the Moon have nothing to do with the biblical expression Greater Light and Lesser Light created in the fourth Day - Genesis 1:v.16, except for analogy.

About stars read Dan.12:v.3

Look up the llamsa Bible which on occasion is used as reference material and taken from the aramaic text and see how He translated it. To me bro these things I don't wrestle with because I'ved learned that this field of thought depends a lot on what people are taught and or who they choose to believe or follow. I'm just here to give another perspective.

Posting to Earl Bowman, A big Amen to your Post Bro. Earl God bless you.

Very good point sasha most people don't ask the question, since the Bible says God is Spirit whatever that spiritual life is that is what I believe was turned on. Later on all other forms of physical lights I.E. Stars planets sun moon were put into place, also look closely how many times God created things, was taught that word create is to bring into existence that which never existed before and only God can do that. Man makes things but he has to start with something, God almighty only can create. Just some things to consider. P.S. Gen. 1:3 God said from verse 3-20 it doesn't say create until he gets to whales then after that not until he gets to man verse 27. Interesting stuff. Genesis is Dynamite. Just sayen

Yes ! We can follow this light from Genesis to Revelation .

Sister Sacha, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The Answer is:

The FIRST LIGHT created was JESUS.

Revelation 3:14 Jesus... the BEGINNING of creation.

John 8:12 ....I am the light of the world ....

He was the light read John 1:1-5, 2nd Corinthians 4:6, Psalms 27:1

Chris you didn't misunderstand me if in the Epistle of 1st John chapter 1:5 it says God is Light and in God is no Darkness at all than the God and father of our lord Jesus Christ could not have been responsible for the desolation of the original Heaven and earth. Also in the Gospel of John 4:24 it says God is spirit you cant see taste touch or smell spirit but you can observe the manifestation of the power. That's why in Genesis 1:3 God started reorganizing that which was ruined. Through out all time from Genesis to revelation God and mans arch enemy the adversary serpent devil, has endevoured to wreak havoc on Gods Creation because His Goal is to be Like the most High God and be worshipped by man whether knowingly or unknowingly. Thank God, that God was loving enough to wait until the appointed time to send His Son to deliver us from the darkness of this world. To me the Word of God has no contradictions, because God is not a man that He should lie. Not endeavoring to justify anything just things to consider. Over and out

Hi Chris , please don't think I'm trying to be contentious , I promise I'm not , please consider , God created light before he created the sun and moon and stars ,so.....what was that light ? Where did it come from ? Just a thought , it's a rhetorical question so I don't expect an answer .

I did check the Hebrew on Psalm 22:1, Dianne, where those words "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" are given. The Hebrew for "(why) have you forsaken Me" is "a-zab-tani" which means to "forsake, be remote, absent". I don't understand your rendering of "kept or spared". I remain perplexed. Thank you again & blessings.

Dianne, my Hebrew translation for the word 'Light' in Genesis 1:3 is 'or' or 'o-wr' & not 'phos'. And that word ('o-wr') only refers to physical light. And thank you for the other attached comments.

That's correct Dianne, I did state that in Genesis 1:2 (the Earth's original creation). But you had given the rendering as, "And the earth (became) without form & void". This was in reference to your quote: "In Genesis 1:2 in the original text the word was is became which changes a lot of things". Maybe, I misunderstood you, therefore, my apologies.

Genesis was revealed to Moses after 2.500 years after Adam or around 1.500 years BC,and around 3.000 years after the rebellion in Eden, beginning by the ruler of Eden, a Cherub.

Genesis 1:v.1- 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Comments: In JESUS, GOD the Father created the heavens(FOUR HEAVENS) and the earth. (earth here has nothing to do with the Planet Earth, there is a great MYSTERY hidden by the Spirit of GOD, the common man will never understand it.)

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Comments: Actually, if the Bible was speaking of the Planet Earth, it would never be written without form, of course, but

the earth that GOD revealed to Moses IT REALLY had not any FORM, it was void, yeah, was void of the Spirit of GOD, the Word, the Word is GOD; SO, darkness was upon the face of the deep(infested of a multitude of rebels), but the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. GOD always was present here( Isaiah 40:v.21-23.Check it out)

3 And God said, Let there be light:and there was light.4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Comments: What was the intention of GOD in this moment?In His Omniscience and Omnipotence He would go to establish two Alliances with the inhabitants of the Earth through His light.(Please, read 1Thes.5:v.4to8)

5 And God called the light Day,and the darkness he called Night.And the EVENING and the MORNING were the first Day.

NOTE:

After the rebellion in Eden( Jude 1:v.6),GOD planned to restore all things in six days, and in His WISDOM started to work in His plan around 500 years after the rebellion in Eden( Genesis 6:1to5; Jude 1:v.6),it was already EVENING.

Genesis 5 describes a generation of GOD's seed according His plan.Did not he make one?Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one?That he might seek a godly seed. Mal.2:15

Chris I can appreciate your statement on sticking with scripture, something to consider what we have now either in kingjames or other translations is not the Word of God which was given when Holymen of God spoke 2 Peter 1:20 +21 I am not saying that I do not believe the bible to be Gods Word but when it was translated even as you stated the translators chose a lot of things based on their belief system. Example Look up Eli Eli lama sabachthani in mathew. The translators put in my god my god why has thou forsaken me, if you look up those words in old testament lama sebachthani means kept or spared, now in Gods word Jesus Christ always did the fathers will so when he was on the cross for us He was doing the fathers will. Now you will tell me God forsook Him Because He can't stand sin, I agree that God does'nt like broken fellowship but His Son our saviour Always did the Fathers will. Something to consider, and yes there are places in kjv that what was translated doesn't fit with the Entire Word, thats not saying God got it wrong man did.

Hi Brian.

There's a view of the Gap theory that I do find Interesting. But not to say the Dinosaur or Humans existed during this period. I believe All that was created In Genesis. Man. woman and Dinosaurs and all iving and extinct flesh was created in Genesis after the Gap theory. Because of this verse.

Romans 5:12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I will post a few articles later.

God bless.

Brian something to consider the gap that you speak could have occurred between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2 Gen 1:1 states in the beginning when was that nobody knows but God got it correct whether it was 50 million, 5 million or 50,000 years it was still in the beginning also the time frame between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 could have been a lot so man can carbon date all he wants between those two verses you can put dinosaurs cave man all kinds of stuff or whatever it was became a mess, all thats left are fossils. No one really knows the life that was in what remains, but they try to push evolution, I'll stick with Gods Word.

Another point to consider in one of Johns Epistles it states that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all, since that is Gods word than that which God created originally was all order and there can be no darkness in it. Notice Gen. 1:3 first move by God next Let there be light that word is phos spiritual light than later God turns on sun moon stars etc. Also notice carefully how many times God created in Genesis its very interesting. To me I'm after what is God saying not what I'm trying to decipher. Also I endeavor to read Gods word with all related scripture to subject matter considered because I don't believe the Bible has any error at all or contradictions as originally given because of 2 Peter 1:20&21. Just things to consider.

Chris I never stated that God created the earth the way it was in Genesis 1:2 you stated that, also there are scripture to look up in regard to this subject matter I just gave a brief overview. God Bless.

Thank you Dianne for your contribution to this thread. I did take note of your understanding of Genesis 1:2 (i.e. saying that in the original text, 'was' is actually 'became'). So, I looked up the Hebrew for that word, which is 'ha-ye-tah', & the meaning given is, 'fall out, come to pass, become', which correlates to somewhat to your understanding. And yet, in reading the Hebrew Interlinear rendering, the word 'was' is still used & not implying that the Earth became something imperfect from something perfect. Of course, the word could allow for the other as well.

In any case, the point I was making in this thread, was that even if the Earth became formless & void from the workings of Satan (or, whatever), what Scriptures are evident to show that actually happened that way? All I see is a possible story built around that verse to give it its 'intended' meaning. And I'm afraid, I never approach Scripture in that manner, or else we can really get off track, & even with the very brief explanation of the Earth's creation given to us in the Bible, the best I can do is to allow for other possibilities & leave them as such - possibilities. There is no verse in the Bible that suggests that Satan being cast down to Earth caused the Earth then to take on such a void, dark & ugly condition. To suggest that a God of Light can create such an Earth is debatable, seeing that He has also created the other worlds of planets, stars & asteroids, which are not exactly in pristine condition by our standards of course, before God's Light shined. I appreciate your input here - blessings.

The Gap Theory was developed based on wording of 1Genesis:1-2 and theorizes the world is much older and different than the world that was created for our existence over 6000 years ago. This old world could be million of years old and consisted of dinosaurs, unusual animals/plants and bi-pedal animals/neandrathals. Fossil records, skeletal remains prove their existence and sediment studies and fossil fuel formation indicate everything was destroyed and buried during a cataclysmic event. This event flooded the entire planet and destroyed ALL life and plunged the world into perpetual darkness. This is called the Pre-Adamic flood.

God went on to complete creating our current world for us as we know it that is over 6000 years old. God also commands us to repopulate the the earth implying it was once before occupied. Also the context used when God promised to not use flooding again as punishment after Noahs flood (destroyed all non-marine life) supports probability of pre-adam flood.

What are your thoughts?

That's awesome....

God is good to me

Some food for thought Almighty God is the also the God of freedom of will or choice but also the God of all order. That being said all of His Created works whether Spiritual beings ie. angels good or bad because all angels are messengers of light or darkness. God being all powerful and perfect as was original creation, Genesis !:1 all creation was perfect. In Genesis 1:2 in the original text the word was is became which changes a lot of things, also agrees with The scripture God is Light and in God is no Darkness at all. Starting in Genisis 1:3 God starts putting back together that which The adversary screwed up it was a cataclysmic event which wiped out the original creation. How much time is involved between Gen.1:1and Gen. 1:2 no one knows but guaranteed it did't happen over night also, people want to get into how old earth is, no man knows but God put it simple In The Beginning Can't beat that. I'll stick with scripture in the God given original text. Again keep something in mind The true God never messes with freedom of will Good Example Adam and Eve. Just food for thought. God Bless

Thank you once again for your comments, brother Leon. I generally understand & agree with your comments, but if I could direct you to what you wrote: "Following his fall, the adversary was relegated to the position of tempter. Just as he tempted Christ, he was only allowed in the garden to tempt Eve, who was then used to test Adam's loyalty to God."

I believe we have a problem here: Satan's fall is alluded to in Isaiah 14:12-15 & Ezekiel 28:12-19. And then we have Job 1:6,7. So the questions that arise are: at what point was Satan cast down to the Earth & were there two castings down? One, which caused Genesis 1:2 & another that brought on Genesis 3:1-15? For, if the first beautiful Earth was corrupted by reason of Satan's involvement, then where did he go between the first & second creations of Earth, since he lost his position in Heaven, no doubt?

Does Satan's "walking to & fro in the Earth & walking up & down in it" apply to the second creation of Earth, where we find him all over the Earth, including Eden, & then again some years later during the lifetime of Job? If that's the case, then he being wholly evil, walking all over this globe, causing mankind's fall & causing Job his ultimate test, surely must indicate that such evil must breed evil, not only to those tested but to all of 'groaning' creation so affected?

Therefore, looking at the Scriptures given by the Lord for us to work with, to have a two-Earth belief (once unformed & then reformed), becomes very difficult to acquiesce to, for Satan's position in either world, must mean a corruption of that world; i.e. if Satan was the reason for the first deformation, the reformation of the second must be likewise affected. Or, if God cleaned up the first then why permit Satan to be around to also affect the second? To be around again, just to test mankind's fidelity to Him, seems a weak reason in light of the extent of damage that was in Satan's power. The Lord be with you.

Greetings Brother Chris. This is a very interesting discussion; thank you. The Garden of Eden was paradise; and there was no evil in the reconstituted creation. Nakedness, which connotes shame ( Rev. 3:18), could not exist, for where there was no evil, and where there is no evil there is no sin, and where there is no sin, there is no shame. Darkness always represents evil. Therefore, the spiritual state of evil was a present force in Genesis 1:2. However, God "closed" the reconstituted creation and its inhabitants to its effects. This is conveyed in Adam and Eve's eyes being "closed" until they were "opened" after eating of the forbidden fruit, and the presence of evil flooded the creation.

Concerning the serpent being allowed in the Garden, God always forces those created as freewill agents, which are angels and mankind, to make choices which define their loyalty. Love cannot truly be quantified without a test of "relational againstness." In other words, a man does not truly love his wife if he cannot pass the test of adultery. Adam was to become the father of the elect, and receive the glory which was passed on to Abraham. Therefore, he had to be tested, just as Abraham's allegiance and love for God was tested; he had to prove that He loved God more ( Gen. 22:16-18).

Following his fall, the adversary was relegated to the position of tempter ( Matt. 4:3). Just as he tempted Christ, he was only allowed in the garden to tempt Eve, who was then used to test Adam's loyalty to God ( 1 Tim. 2:14-15). Adam listened to Eve and failed his test, unlike Job, who did not listen to his wife, and ultimately passed his test ( Job 2:9-10).

May God bless you.

Brother Leon. Concerning Scripture, I believe it is to be read normally & naturally (or else there would be no reason to read it at all), & where amplification is given or a deeper special meaning intended, the Word will show it for our benefit. For example, in Galatians 4:22-26, Paul speaks of Sarah & Hagar (Genesis chap 16 onwards). If we didn't have Paul's allegorical connection of Sarah & Hagar to the covenants, one of 'Freedom & Promise' in Christ & the Gospel, & the other of 'Bondage' to the Law, I wonder whether we would have missed it altogether?

Even in the Book of the Revelation, some things are clearly metaphorical & left unexplained, while others are explained: e.g. Revelation 9:3ff on locusts as opposed to Revelation 1:20, the stars & candlesticks. With the latter, the meaning is given, but with the former, we can get several theories on who or what the locusts are. If one proclaims that he has the meaning, how are we to accept that without any Scriptural backing? If a mystery is unlocked & faith & joy have increased exponentially as a result, can it be expected that another person can share that same exuberance without confirmation from other Scriptures? Likewise, the two states of the Earth (once without form & void because of satanic interference & then re-created in perfection a second time with beaming light), becomes difficult to comprehend.

You said, "The reconstituted creation did not contain the same evil which previously existed." I thought that this 'reconstituted creation' already had the same evil present - in Satan, who was there ready to pounce on the new humans to make them like himself. Adam & Eve's disobedience manifested into evil only because of the evil already present. And as a result, the whole creation groaneth & travaileth in pain till the present. But "the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" in that coming day. Blessings to you brother.

My precious brother Chris, thank you for replying. God only gives the "whole picture," or the milk in His word to set the foundation for worship and fellowship ( 1 Cor. 3:1-2; Heb. 5:12-14; 1 Pet. 2:2). However, He forces the diligent disciple to "work" at rising to the higher level of the "rich meat" of the truth, which is evident in Christ speaking exclusively in parables ( Matt. 13:34-35), and writing the Book of Revelation in highly symbolically language. I agree with you. One can adopt a position of not seeking. However, it is incredibly exciting to unlock those mysteries of which Christ spoke ( Matt. 13:11), concerning the past and the future! To the contrary, my faith is increased exponentially when God turns on "theological light bulbs" during one's searches, because, in the final analysis, all theological doctrine, whether from the Apostle Paul, St. Augustine, John Calvin, or Martin Luther, must begin with God-inspired theories based upon revelation into His word.

The reconstituted creation did not contain the same evil which previously existed. Rather, evil was introduced when Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit. Paul states, "The whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now" ( Rom. 8:22).

Lastly, Christ is the only source of light and goodness in the entire creation, which includes all humankind, elect and non-elect. The only good inside of any person is Christ. In the born-again process the Holy Spirit opens the believer's eyes to Christ as that inner source of goodness, and places a name and face on the source. Similarly, light had been in the creation for three days before God brought forth the Sun as the source of the Light on the fourth day ( Gen. 1:3, 16; Mal. 4:2). Also, Christ spiritually permeated the world as the source of goodness for 4,000 years before He was born, and God put a name and face on the source of Light! Amen!