Genesis Chapter 3 Discussion Page 4

Hi Earl,

It sounds like your argument is based on an assumption.

"If man has FREEWILL, why does man ALWAYS chose EVIL, why wouldn't at least a FEW men choose to never sin. If they have FREEWILL."

To challenge this assumption, I may ask why you assume a 'few' wouldn't sin and where would this expectation come from? I don't have this expectation that flawed humans can be perfect, so I wonder why you assume freewill would make such a feat possible?

Is it possible that you're conflating freedom of choice with supernatural powers? Perhaps thinking freewill is more than just a choice, but like a free wish from God?

I may 'choose' to be the tallest man in the world, but that doesn't mean I will be. Our choices only occur within our own reality. I can wish to be in Hawaii right now, but that's different than me choosing and making subsequent plans to actually go there. Our freewill doesn't mean we can transcend reality and have magical powers, so I don't think freewill helps someone be perfect. It's closer to the opposite. If we were robots we'd have no choice and would likely operate morally perfect as designed. God hates sin and doesn't make anyone sin, but if you don't have any freewill you would have to explain that contradiction. But since we do have freewill, it's not a contradiction. With freewill we're tempted every day nearly 24/7 and face constant moral choices throughout our lives and it seems unrealistic to assume that an imperfect human can somehow choose to be perfect.

Did I understand your question correctly and does anything I wrote resonate?

Brother Adam, If man has FREEWILL, why does man ALWAYS chose EVIL, why wouldn't at least a FEW men choose to never sin. If they have FREEWILL.

But, that would make this scripture a LIE:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO ....

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin (No), can a leopard change his spots? (No) then may you also do good, (No) that are accustomed TO DO evil.

Romans 8:20 For the creature itself was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly ....

Evil is disobeying and rebelling against God. God loved everyone enough to give everyone freewill to choose right from wrong. Think of how people would complain if they were robots without choices. Well, they aren't and not they complain when they choose evil. But most people usually only complain about the evil done to them, not the evil they do to others. They still want the freedom to commit evil which negatively impacts others. Interesting how this works.

Angels in heaven had freewill, which is why satan was banished. Adam and Eve had everything perfect but also chose evil. Evil exists because people keep choosing it willingly, and God loved them enough to allow them that choice.

To my knowledge the book of Enoch was never included in the KJV since it was only found in the 50s with the death sea scrolls. There are ample mentions of him and his writing throughout the bible though, especially the new testament.

Genesis 5:18-24. And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. This and his for the times below average lifespan of three hundred sixty and five years, everyone living about 700-1000 years in those days, mean to me that his life wasn't ended because of death, but because, as it says, God took him after Enoch walking with him, which is perfectly described in the book of Enoch.

Hebrews 11:4-5. 5 makes mention of Enoch, whom by faith was "translated". I interpret this word as him being taken by God, since he was not found due to God having translated him. For before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God, so it says, and this testimony is likely to be his writing. 4 makes mention of Abel speaking even after death, which to my knowledge isn't really explained anywhere else in the bible but is perfectly made sense of in Enoch, where he looks into the depths of the Sheol only to find Abel claiming vengeance for the murdering of him (if someone knows of any passage of the bible which also mentions this I'd be very happy to know).

Lastly, Jude 1:14-15. Must I say any more?

I don't know much about other Apocrypha. I know, superficially, for example, that the deuterocanonical books were instilled by the catholic church and are quite contradictory with the rest of the bible, for the reasons this very same website mentions in its page about the apocrypha. I haven't read them though, so I couldn't know. I recommend the book of Enoch because sufficient mention is made of him to prove its veracity, and that it satisfies the curiosity of us creationists while also explaining, as I said, the nature of malevolence, the giants, of whom David fought one, the Lords cosmology and creation, etc.

We were taught NOT to read the Apocrypha. I knew about the missing books. I was never taught as to why the books were taken out the KJV. Now that I am an adult I took the time to find answers as to why. Also, to find the names of the books. I was told seven. I found fourteen along with the Dead Sea Scrolls info. The same one's the took out the books also were going to add five books that are in the KJV. They changed their minds I guess. In my studies I found a lot of ugly things that took place concerning The Bible. In the books of The Apocrypha I found answers to the books that were Canonized. Who gave them the authority to take anything out of BIBLE. At the end of Revelation it clearly states NOT TO ADD OR TAKE AWAY FROM THIS BOOK....

Perhaps you would find some of the answers you seek in the books of Enoch, such as the nature of evil, or the humanoid beings which have animalesque features to them that were portrayed in ancient religions and whose discovery nowadays is hidden from the public. I recommend you read it.

Yes I do... Jesus Christ is GOD "Romas 9:5".

Satan was a created archangel. When he was ejected from Heaven (with 1/3 angels; turned demons)

They have no bodies. They have to borrow bodies to do their evil. Evil humans give their bodies to do evil. Demons can borrow animal,reptile, etc.

Satan didn't have Dominion or Authority to do anything to born again Christians; but the Christians must be taught what they have in Christ. Ephesians 6

Look at Hollywood! Way more movies on occult, sci-fi, and humans hurting humans. Very very few scriptural Bible films.

Humans were given Dominion in Genesis by God.

Only Bible readers would know that. Jesus defeated Satan by being crucified and then Resurrected. Christians have the same AUTHORITY to defeat Satan's strategies against us. It's done in prayer on our knees.

Most people just want to come home and watch tv or play online games.

Bad things happen to good people/Christians because we don't want to do the hard stuff that produces salvations, healings, deliverance from Satan's attacks. We don't need to be blaming God for our inability to follow the example of Jesus.

What would happen if we walked out on the back porch and yelled out loud: in Jesus Name, by His power and Authority, I take Dominion over every demonic strategy to hurt me and my family and loved ones. I bind your evil plans and cast you OUT OF THIS HOUSE

OUT OF MY FAMILY

OUT OF MY WORK PLACE

OUT OF MY CITY

OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT

GO NOW INTO OUTER DARKNESS TO WANDER. DO NOT RETURN

IN THE NAME OF JESUS. AMEN

I ask the Lord, to release warring angels to enforce and protect this prayer; minister to and guard those this prayer covers. Cover me and favor my family, Lord Jesus,

I give you thanksgiving, my praise to you, worship and honor. Impart to me discernment so I may stand in the watchtower and be vigilant against Satan's attacks. I rebuke the Spirit of Slumber! Holy Spirit teach me how I should pray for all my concerns. I receive it, in the Name of Jesus. AMEN! HALLELUJAH

Brother Sonny, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Most people are taught by the traditions of man, very few study themselves and let the Spirit reveal the truth to them.

Romans 8:20 For the CREATURE (CREATION) was made SUBJECT TO VANITY (evil), not WILLINGLY, but by REASON of him who hath SUBJECTED the same (creation) in HOPE. (Becoming ONE with their CREATOR).

Ponder on the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.

That knowledge exist TOGETHER, you can't have the KNOWLEDGE of good without also having the KNOWLEDGE of evil.

After partaking of this KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, God said, behold they (creation) have become like one of us to KNOW good and evil.

This KNOWLEDGE is necessary to become LIKE GOD.

John 17:21 That they (creation) ALL may BE ONE; as thou Father, art ONE IN ME, and I IN THEE, that thou also may be ONE IN US: that the world MAY BELIEVE that thou has SENT ME.

Colossians 1:27 ... this mystery....CHRIST IN YOU.....

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne (you are the throne of CHRIST)( Revelation 20:4) proceeded lighting, and thunder and voices: BURNING ( Isaiah 4:4) before the throne (you are the throne of CHRIST)( Revelation 20:4), which (lighting, thunder, voices) ARE the SEVEN Spirits of God (now in you).

Isaiah 11:2 And the (first is the) SPIRIT of the LORD (Father) shall rest upon him (Christ (in you)), the (second) spirit of WISDOM, and (the third spirit of) UNDERSTANDING, the (forth) spirit of COUNSEL and (the fifth spirit of) MIGHT, the (sixth) spirit of KNOWLEDGE and (the seventh spirit) of the FEAR of the Lord.

When we no longer have to SUFFER IN THE FLESH we will BE ONE WITH THE FATHER AND SON.

I still do not understand, if creation was do perfect and the world newly created and all was godly, just where exactly did evil come from?

Since it was newly created and there was no other place mentioned again so seems like there was an error in some form, and then from the research I've done, a serpent was also referred to as an elder, and in more research there's a discussion of other forms of life, which other religions such as in India.

The serpent races are recorded thru history as are the ocean going mermen and merwomen which a race was discovered by Jaque Cousteau son a few years back on digital camera actually coming up and peering in the the underwater sub as well as three remains found in California on the beach.

I believe whatever exists living is created by God. If there are aliens it's just something else created by God.

When it comes to creation there's alot of gaps in time, books added, books removed, politics.

Example, Romans crucified Christ, the Sadducees and Pharisees were the ruling religious political parties of the times, I'd suggest they wanted Christ out of the way more then the Romans.

I would suggest that you start in the new testament, starting with the four gospels, as this is the ministry of Jesus, and the salvation of the cross, as Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil". in other words fulfilling of the old testament and its laws and prophecy, and starting from the book of Acts to up to Revelations is the spreading of his gospel, But wherever you decide to start may God bless you on that journey.

any place is a great place to start reading God's word

Larry Who or what was the serpent in eden, that is a description of operation of our adversary the devil. Here are some other scripture references, Revelation 12:9 notice called the devil, satan that old serpent also 1 Peter 5: Be sober be vigilant for your adversary the devil as a roaring lion walketh about seeking whom he may devour notice in two verses we have 5 different descriptions devil satan serpent adversary roaring lion, these are different descriptions in Gods Word of His methods of operation and there's more. So your question is not a cut and dry answer.

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:" Was the serpent crawling on it's belly prior to being cursed? Did God create the serpent? Was the Serpent in a different form? Was the serpent deceived by Satan? Was Cain also deceived or over comed by Satan's power to be also known as the evil seed?

Larry Sin is broken fellowship with God I.E. going against His Word, the word serpent in genesis is figurative language for the slyness by which Eve was deceived, the two who first broke Gods word were Adam and Eve there actions went against the only thing God told them not to do. The consequences of their actions man has paid for ever since but was paid for by Jesus Christ.

Larry Jacobs , hi , sin is disobedience to a command from God , some thing is not a sin until God says : don't do this , and then you do it , that is sin . Where there is law there is disobedience , where there are no laws there aren't any sins . We only know for sure what has been written and preserved for our benefit , other than that we may speculate but that's all .

The bible states that Adam is Cain's father my question was concerning other sins before Cain Slew Abel. Did the serpent have another form before he was cursed? Was the eating the forbidden fruit and Adam being deceitful toward the initial sins or were there other sins' committed by man prior to Cain slaying Abel?

I started from Genesis. Take your time. I make annotations and sometimes I have to go back to make sure I understand. I think that will help you understand why other things happened later on the Bible.

Since Jesus is our Savior, it makes sense to read the 4 Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.

To learn who Jesus is, and every moment of his life on earth.

You might want to pause and consider Matthew24 and Luke 21, Because these are the passages Jesus speaks of the End Times.

This website has a link: Become a Christian with some reading suggestions on it that you might want to view also.

I want to start reading the holy Bible but idk if I should start to read the new testament or the old.

Larry Jacobs Gen. 3 There are those that believe that Eve had sex with the serpent, that's not possible because of physical law spirit cannot have sex with five senses flesh. That being said cain committed the first murder the shedding of innocent blood, then look at the punishment Gen. 3:11-16 cain became cursed from the earth and when you tillest the ground it will not yield its strength, he became a vagabond or wanderer no place to hide. Just as we are born again of Gods seed holy spirit, cain was the first man spiritually born of seed of the serpent spiritually totally corrupt. In the bible they are known as men of belial, the word belial means worthless reckless lawless wicked men, men of the earth and many other names, In the gospel of John 8:44 Jesus Christ went up against these men verse 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot here my word. Next verse Ye are of your father the devil and the lust of your father ye will do, it is not flesh and blood it is spiritual which is why they will die in there sin it is seed. Remember Ephesians 6:12 this is a spiritual battle not senses. I've met Christians that got born again who were satan worshppers but that doesn't mean they were born of the devil.

Was Cain slaying Abel the second sin of man and for this reason was Cain known as the evil seed.

JAEL:

Gen. 3:24

This shows the first exodus. Notice in all the exoduses in the Bible there is a death then a curse and then a movement or exodus. When God is about to do something great, a death takes place then a curse and finally a movement. Vince.

Gen. 3:6

It's showing that both Adam and Eve were watching the serpent eating the fruit in front of them thus convincing them that there is no death in the fruit. VINCE.

LYSTRA GEORGE:

I think God is having Eve know that she has child bearing seeds in her and her offsprings will be at odds with the animals; the animals being represented by the serpent. Remember, the whole garden of Eden story is the introduction of the knowledge of good and evil. I hope this helps. VINCE.

Lystra George ,you can take this literally ,humans and snakes ? We dont usually get on too well ,there is a symbolical meaning too ,im sure the symbolism will be revealed to you as you read your Bible ,i could tell you but it would spoil it for you ,just take it as literal for now .

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

would like to understand what God meant by this verse.

Wow, this version is really interesting. I have studied almost always from the New International Version but a few times from the Living Bible too.

Genesis 3:6

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

Don't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

God's word is wisdom.

first Timothy 6:6

But godliness with contentment is great gain

Satsn is a beguiler

What does verse 24 mean ( child version)