Genesis Chapter 9 Discussion Page 2

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your viewpoint. I just happen to believe that God is the one to determine when the world is filled to the point to fulfill His will in His command, not us. God never promised that everyone would be housed or well fed or safe from harm in the world. Deaths from hunger, disease, war, natural disasters, etc. are the result of the world still being under the curse of death from Genesis 3.

My sister in law is from Africa and she has given me a view into life there in her country. Because of tribalism, people will help those of their own tribe , but not those of other tribes. Many children are orphaned due to AIDS and death from other diseases. These children are taken in for the night by members of their village or tribe, but put back out onto the streets during the day. Many countries have surpluses of foods, but the food isn't distributed due to politics, laws, or corruption at the point of delivery if sent to needy areas of our world. This is all a result of sin, not overpopulation.

We may be getting close to the "filled" point in this generation. Revelation speaks of a 1/3 of the world's population dying as a result of one of the "bowls" being poured out. We should remain awake and watchful, as Jesus said.

I believe it is the "wisdom of the world" that sounds the alarm about overpopulation for the past 50 years or so. As Christians, I believe we should know God's will by knowing what He has declared in His Word and acting according to His will, not by what the world's "geniuses" scream about such matters.

GiGi,

Loving your posts, there is much we can see that relates to us today. What is amazing there were 1656 years from the creation of Adam to the flood and only 4 chapters of Genesis from Adam and Eve leaving the garden until Noah went into the ark. Like you said many stories about Ham seeing his father naked and the curse on Hams son Canaan. It may be; God had blessed Noah and his sons and Noah could not curse what God had blessed.

We see later the land promised to Israel was Canaan. And today Israel has just a small portion of the land God promised Abraham. We know that will be fixed in the future. Another amazing thing is the time after the flood I feel the earth was renewed, remember the little dove brought back to Noah an olive leaf that was plucked off a tree.

I know we think what this earth would look like after a worldwide flood all the fertile land covered in mud muck and debris it would be unlivable. If God can bring the waters together into this sphere and cause the land to appear and be covered with grass, herbs, and fruit trees in a 24-hour time, He can restore the earth for Noah and all the animals to start over. If the seasons were the same the second month when they came out of the ark it would be springtime.

Noah was born 1056 years from the creation of Adam and he died 950 years old, that would have him alive when Abram was born 1948 years from the creation of Adam and Noah lived 58 years after Abram was born, he saw 9 generations, wow. It seems incredible it was only 292 years from the flood when Abraham was born.

Terah took Abram, Sarai, and Lot to Haran and when God called Abram to get out, Abram was only 75 years old. The earth was divided in the days of Peleg that would be between 1757 when he was born and 1996 from the creation of Adam when he died, makes you wonder who knew who, Shem was still living when Jacob was born, some say he was Melchizedek but I don't know about that.

God bless you,

RLW

Hi GiGi,

Enjoy reading all of your posts associated with Noah. I just wanted to note something you stated regarding populating this world.

You said: "The world does not advocate following God's command to be fruitful and multiply."

Do you know these statistics?

This year, 36 million people will die from starvation. Essentially, that equates to a person dying of hunger every second of the year. Of these 36 million inhabitants, children are especially vulnerable. Every minute, 12 children under the age of five will die of hunger. This fact represents a death every five seconds.

The question itself of hunger, not just hunger-related deaths, is just as equally an important issue. The Oxford English Dictionary defines hunger as the want or scarcity of food in a country. The current world population is more than seven billion, and 795 million people, or one in every nine people, suffer from hunger. Almost all of these people are living in developing countries. Countries in Asia suffer from this problem more than any other region, with 525 million people suffering. Sub-Saharan African countries follow with a combined 214 million.

The problem is not multiplying.we are not being fruitful enough to figure out how to house and feed them all!

God Bless.

What a marvellous sight that must have been for Noah & his family: to see a rainbow for the first time & God's eternal reminder that the Earth would no longer be destroyed by such a flood. Scientists of course, can explain it away with visible white light consisting of seven colours & what we see is that refraction of that light through water droplets. As true as that might be, we know that a bow had never appeared before the Flood & did so as the sun finally peeked through the heavy clouds after that deluge. As well, that God can even use natural occurrences we might even see today, as manifestations of His Judgements of tomorrow - judgements that will be capable of utter destruction & death.

Ham's brothers were upset at the way ham disrespected their father and/or mother. They covered Noah up in a respectful manner to avoid any more embarrassing moments. They honored their parents. Ham did not.

Upon waking, Noah discovered what had happened. Maybe his wife told him what had happened, or Shem and Japhet.

The text doesn't say. But whatever happened, it was not brushed away as if of no consequence. He pronounced a curse on Ham's son Canaan and blessed Shem and Japheth. Noah was probably sad that he could not place a blessing on all of his sons, but in his own counsel, he felt he needed to give a curse to Ham's son, Canaan. Blessings and curses in the Bible were often given to children when a father was near death. Was this the case for Noah, since Canaan had been born and he would most likely be the youngest grandchild. Was this event at the end of the 350 years Noah lived after the flood?

We don't read anymore about Noah after this chapter. Be sad if this these were some of the last words Ham heard from his father. We don't hear anymore about this family after this chapter except in the Table of Nations in Chapter 10, so perhaps it was near the end of his life. 350 years had past since they came out of the ark after the flood. Noah would have seen many generations come from his sons. He died before Abraham was born, but his legacy of faith was passed down from Shem to Abraham, just like Adam's legacy was passed down to Noah through Seth's lineage. God always keeps a remnant!

It says that God once again told Noah to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. God gave him other commands concerning bloodshed and instructing him to eat meat instead of only plant food. Then God established His covenant with Noah not to flood the earth again and extinguish all flesh as what just occurred. His sign of the covenant was the rainbow. Wonderful that from that time on that anyone can see the sign of this covenant throughout time when rain comes, not just Noah and his family.

And soon Noah became a farmer, just like Adam. We don't know if he was a farmer before the flood, but it was necessary for him too apply what he knew about cultivating plants to provide food for his family. Farming also requires a man to stay put rather that wandering from place to place hunting and gathering.

I find the fact that Noah drank the wine of his vineyards and became drunk pretty insignificant. i don't think it was wrong for him to do this. he may have been celebrating an ample harvest of food from his garden.

However, Ham erred in entering his father's tent without being invited. Each man's tent was his home. It also was his bedroom. The customs of that time were to guard the privacy of the tent because once inside, everything was able to be viewed unless perhaps the tents had divided parts with curtains. If so, then Ham not only entered through the door of the tent, but went to the place where Noah slept. His wife may have been there. They may have had relations and then Noah slept in the nude. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe his wife was also naked in the tent. Nothing wrong with that.

But Ham was wrong to enter the tent and to linger long enough to view what was happening between Noah and his wife or to see Noah naked asleep.

Some commented that perhaps Ham did something to Noah or his wife sexually. That could be a possibility, due to the scriptures people quoted in the Mosaic law. Ham then exited the tent and told his brothers.

Love that Noah went straight to worship after God spoke to him. he built and altar and sacrificed. This pleased God. How wonderful that our worship pleases God!

Noah didn't lay out his plans for rebuilding a house, etc. He didn't sit down and have a meal. He didn't walk to survey the land. He didn't sit down in dust and sackcloth. He rejoiced in God! He showed God his gratitude. He showed that he was in harmony with God's choice to cause every living land animal to perish, but for those on the ark. He showed that he was going to continue to trust God to provide in a barren, flood ravaged landscape. His faith had prevailed through the long year of being shut up in the ark with the rain pelting the ark and the ark rolling on the waves.

Praise be to the God of Noah!

God gave Noah a promise and a commandment.

The promise:

The world will continue in its normal cycling of days, months, years, seasons until the end of this era. God has set the last day. He knows when time is up. We don't decide. That is comforting.

The command:

Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. God knows when the earth will be filled to capacity. We don't decide. We should not be worried when people say that the world is overpopulated. Instead we should be eager to fulfill God's command here in Genesis. God has never rescinded this command. It is a good thing to pray for God to give you a pro-life heart like His. He is exceedingly generous in bringing forth new life in animals and humans. May those who love God also be for life in this anti-life society. Commit to being cooperative with God towards adding children to your family instead of working against him to prevent Him from creating new life in your marriage. Ponder what the world's view is about children, then consider what God's view is concerning this. The world view is opposed to God's view, in my opinion. The world does not advocate following God's command to be fruitful and multiply.

In my comment

Two word were wrong

Did god a grave disservice

And satan is the great decieve

Sorry

No one is denying Enoch

He was a servant of god

And went to heaven without dieing

The problem is who wrote the book of Enoch

Because the book of Enoch is full of inconsistencies with the inerrant word of god

There is no reason to believe Enoch

Wrote the book of enoch

And whoever did did Enoch and God a grace dis service

Just because a book was found does not mean the writer was a believer or servant of god

As you know their many false profits and satan decided

I am not saying Enoch himself was a false profit

He was a man of god

But not the writer of the book that bears his name

Enoch (Hebrew: meaning "initiated") is a name in the Hebrew Bible used by two separate figures who lived during the generation of Adam.

The first Enoch was the son of Cain.

He is described as a son of Cain, and father of Irad. After Cain arrived in the Land of Nod, to which he was evicted by the Lord as his punishment for murdering his brother Abel. His wife became pregnant and bore Cain's first child, whom he named Enoch.

The SECOND Enoch was a descendant of SETH, the third son of Adam, and great-grandfather of NOAH ( Genesis 5:22-29). Seth is the bloodline of Jesus Christ ancestors and Must Not be Confused with Cains ancestor.

First Book of Enoch was at first accepted in the Christian Church but later excluded from the biblical canon. Its survival is due to the fascination of marginal and heretical Christian groups, such as the Manichaeans, with its syncretic blending of Iranian, Greek, Chaldean, and Egyptian elements.

Justin, Athenagoras, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, Lactantius, and others borrowed an opinion out of this Book of Enoch, that the angels had connection with the daughters of men, of whom they had offspring (Nephilim: 'the giants of the past'). Tertullian, in several places, speaks of this book with esteem; and would persuade us, that it was preserved by Noah during the deluge. The Book of Enoch, however, was rejected by Origen, Jerome and Augustin as spurious.

[newworldencyclopedia DOT ORG]

Mishael comment: there is Much confusion as to the First Enoch, son of CAIN (who was cursed by God), in Genesis.

Hi Adam, I want to start off by apologizing to you, i sounded confrontational, and a little bit of a smart mouth, I did not choose my chose my words wisely, and I am sorry for that. I must of misunderstood the question, I thought they was asking what the curse was, and why he was cursed, and I have only been studying for about 6months now, and don't have much education, I will have to look for that website that I got that information from, I will send it to you and Chris, and I could be wrong, I don't want to discourage, or mislead anyone, I never meant for you to think, that I was saying the KJV isn't the word of the Most High GOD, I just thought that they left out some of the words, and if so, why? For example, the left out the book of Enoch, and that should of definitely been in the bible, because Enoch was face to face with GOD, and walked with GOD, and didn't suffer death for

GOD took him, and like I say, If I'm wrong about it, I'm sorry and I never meant to mislead anyone, I just want people to look and make sure for themselves, don't believe it just because that's what you were told to believe, because when it's all said and done, we will all stand before the LORD. May GOD bless, you and yours brother Adam and Brother Chris.

Thank you for the reply :)

Hello Shirley. There's not a lot written about the man, Canaan, unlike the many references throughout the Old Testament to the Land of Canaan, its people, its idolatry, wars, etc. Since you're doing an essay on the man himself, the only references are in Genesis chapters 9 & Genesis 10:15; 1 Chronicles 1:8-16; and The Book of Jubilees (this is a pseudepigraphical book, i.e. one not considered worthy in content or authorship to be included into the Canon of Scripture), where you will find reference to Canaan (Jubilees 9:1; 10:29-34). I never use such books because of errors within them, but suggest this for your perusal (you can find exercepts of it on the Web) in case there may be something useful there.

I am trying to do an essay on Canaan, I need to no more about Canaan as Noah grandson can you help were to look for more lesson on Canaan.

Thank you David. May I refer you to a few OT & NT Scriptures: Exodus 33:7; Proverbs 1:20; Ezekiel 41:17. And Matthew 12:46,47; Matthew 26:69; Hebrews 13:13. These show the intended meaning of 'without' as seen & understood in Genesis 9:22.

But if you still believe that Genesis 9:22 is incomplete, I would be very interested, like Adam, to know where you learned this & the relevant references so we can research this as you have done. In anticipation I remain.

Discovering Noah's nakedness; means Ham , slept with his wife. ( mother ) This is of course not well taught, an often harshly scrutinized by many , but it's the plain simple facts.

I believe the Bible is God's Word. If you believe it's a corrupted man's word then I wonder why you're reading it and what other info source you're comparing to, like Hebrew? Did someone tell you the KJV is corrupted and do you believe them or are you assuming this based on your own research of something in particular?

You gave a few examples in a sentence, but I can't quite discern what you're referring to. It sounds you're mentioning someone being naked, but you didn't say what book/chapter/verse nor whether you think the KJV says that or Hebrew says that or some other source? If you want to discuss your questions in an open manner that can be done and you'll probably get others' input, but to come to a KJV Bible site and claim that the Bible is corrupt without any dialog seems inappropriate.

I was able to comprehend your statement about tower of babel, however. Ok, you seemed to ask where races came from and I gave my opinion and wrote the 2nd paragraph response to you. But now you're saying that it wasn't in the Bible. Of course it's not in the Bible- if it was in the Bible would you be asking about it? And that's why I wrote what I did: "While the Bible doesn't explain all answers to all questions we have..." which is why I offered my opinion.

I'm just going to go and say it... Why does Noah get naked? I'm quite confused, and don't really see any symbolism in it.

I would love some responses as I'm currently trying to learn more about christianity as I've recently felt more and more drawn toward god.

Thank you for you comment, I too trust GOD word over man's assumptions, but isn't what's in the KJV, the translation from the Hebrew writings? And if yes, then why do the Hebrew writings from 200BC say without covering his nakedness. brother your soul is at stake, and you have to make sure for yourself, do your own research, but be wise about it, don't go by what somebody is telling you it says, look for yourself, and you quoted some theories about Noah having a mix race family, that's just bonkers to me, and I've only been study for 6 months, and at the tower of babel, it says nothing about changing Thier races, he confounded their language,and scattered them across the earth. We know Satan Will cause a great deception, don't you think that corruption of the word of GOD, and misleading the followers of Jesus Christ could be the great deception? That's why you should do your own research, and not trust man. You said you will take God words over man's words any day didn't ya?

Now ask yourself, does that make any sense? If you read what the Hebrews originally wrote, it say's without covering his nakedness. You are correct, when you say he went out of the tent, and told his brother's, and that's how they new to bring a garment and walk backwards, that's not what's in question here, it's what they have taken out from the Bible, and what was originally written, that's in question, and that's just so they don't have to talk about, different civilization's, using the curse of Canaan, to justify them in slaving black people, but the curse was, he and his offsprings would be of a darker hue. We have to go by the closest too, and the most reliable information that we have, and when they start leaving out words, and start changing words, just to be politically correct, and Christians except it, well I have a problem with that and so does GOD!!! GOD Bless brother.

Hi David. Just to clarify Genesis 9:22, "And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without."

The word "without" here, is an older English word usage, meaning 'outside'. It is supposed to be the opposite of 'within'. We use 'within' often, but not so with, 'without'. Therefore, when Ham saw (or, observed) his father's condition, he went & told his two brothers who were 'outside' the tent. So when the brothers, knowing their father's state, approached the tent opening, they put a (large) material across their shoulders & walked backwards into the tent to cover their father & in so doing gave him due respect.

No words are missing in the KJV Bible. The meaning has been the same for more than 400 years since its first printing, which can easily be verified on a website like this. People sometimes make false assumptions about it though. I trust God's word over man's word any day.

In the middle of your statement, you said "no other time in the bible that can account for the black race." I'm not sure where you get your information from. While the Bible doesn't explain all answers to all questions we have, it does say a lot. Maybe your question is where do races come from. Two common theories exist- some believe Noah's family was diverse and spread out into different people groups from there. And others, including myself, believe God's work at the Tower of Babel included changes to culture and race, along with the already disclosed language creation and regional placement across the earth. God bless.

Well canaan, the son of ham was cursed with a darker hue, and that's been toking out by are trusty bible Scholars, so they don't have to talk about slavery. But, ham's son was cursed because Noah couldn't curse ham, because GOD Blessed Noah and his 3 Son's before they step out of the ark, so canaan was ham's first born, and therefore he had to be the one that Noah cursed. I pray this answer the question you had. GOD Bless.

There is a lot of missing words here, it says, he told his two brothers without. And goes on to the next verse, without What? It supposed to say "without covering his nakedness, also the bible scholars don't want to talk about it, but the curse before it was taken out to be politically correct, but it should say that canaan was cursed with a darker hue, meaning that he was the start of the black race, you can argue until the cows come home, but if that curse of a darker hue didn't mean black, then where did they come from, there is no other time in the bible that can account for the black race, it's not saying anything offensive to the black race, we are all sinners, and fall and fall short of the glory of GOD, when you start taking out the word of GOD, because you don't want to talk about slavery, well then you are doing the Devil's Work, and leading people astray on to the road of destruction, I can't in good faith ask for any mercy on their soul.

Thank you for your reply Chris.

Hello John. I don't believe that Leviticus 18:12 can be applied to the Noah/Ham matter as that verse is specifically referring to unnatural familial relationships whereas Ham showed disrespect & disregard to his Father by what he did, in spite of Noah's pitiful condition.

English Sacha's graphical retelling of this portion may be closer to the truth than we know, which I had not earlier considered.

Thank you "English Sacha". I have always agreed with your interpretation of these events. When I hear a new interpretation of bible facts it seems prudent to apply "Occam's Razor".

Hi John , you are correct , the Bible doesn't mess about when discussing human sinfullness . This is why I don't believe that Ham had sex with either of his parents . I think that if he did it would say exactly that . This is just my opinion , I think that Ham found his father 'uncovered ' and had a laugh at his expense , something along the lines of ' look at this silly old drunk ' perhaps ? He said as much to his two brothers and invited them to mock their dad with him . They were a bit more respectfull , Noah awoke with a hangover and in a bit of a bad mood and realised the kind of thing that had happened because of the blanket covering his nakedness . After he had made his enquiries and learnt of Hams disrespect of him , Noah had a few choice words . This is all in my imagination of course . We can always speculate and try to read between the lines as long as we recognise that thats what we have done . May God bless us all with ears to hear and eyes to see .

I know the bible often discusses the most despicable and unsavory parts of man's sinful nature. The account in Genesis where Ham "saw the nakedness" of his father seems to be one such scripture.

Growing up hearing and studying Genesis 9:22, I was taught Ham was cursed because he literally "saw the nakedness" of his father Noah. (This seems to be the most polite way of explaining what actually happened.)

Here is the full account of this incident:

Genesis. 9:22

And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brethren without.

23. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father, and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

24. And Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

I have recently come across an interpretation of this incident that is rather disturbing.

In Lev. 18: 12: Thou shalt not "uncover the nakedness" of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman. God is forbidding copulation with close relatives.

In Genesis 9:22 The language is very similar and seems to indicate that Ham copulated with his father Noah and possibly with his mother because a son of Ham was also cursed.

I know this incident is a little unsavory. However, it is in the word of God, and I would like to know the truth about this incident. Especially, in light of the current worldly corruption that is permeating every part of our current world.