Hebrews Chapter 6 Discussion Page 2

Hi Digjot;

Yes, I am doing well.

Keep your spirit up for God truly is in control of this world and of history. Compared to our eternal life with Christ , this mortal life is really very short. God will give us strength to endure and comfort in times of trials. He will guide us through evil times and cause us to rejoice in Him.

Hope to here from you often, Dgjot.

Thank You, Gigi. God bless you. I hope you are well.

Dgjot It would seem to me that your post is proof that once saved always saved is only a theory. Many will (fall away) in the Lastdays ( 2 Thess. 2:3) The word (falling) is defection from truth (properly the state) ["apostasy"] divorce, (writing of divorcement).

This would have to be True Believers falling away for it to say ["apostasy"] divorce, and (writing of divorcement).

Thank you for your post.

God Bless.

Hello Dgjot,

Haven't heard from you for awhile. Welcome back on here.

This Scripture in Hebrews is difficult in respects to the danger to those who have turned from Jesus after once walking with Him. Hell is real and the destination of all who are not in Christ Jesus-even some we know and love. How much we should pray that our own faith will endure to the end and that of those we know as believers. How much we ought to pray for all whom we know who are non believers. We pray for God to provide many opportunities for us to share the gospel. There is much need amid all the evil we see and know about. So much more we do not see and know about. But God knows all and is ever working to draw people into this life of faith in Jesus.

Hebrews 6:

4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened"....."If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance".

Don't these people realize that they spit in the face of Jesus and threw away their salvation???? There's no 2nd chance for them. Many false preachers/deceivers are in the world, teaching non-Biblical nonsense. I see billions of people sliding down a greased pole to hell.

I cringe whenever I hear of "Christians" who ditched Jesus in favor of Islam, or any other "religion".



Matthew 17:5

"While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which (God) said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."



Christians get a bad rap. They are commissioned to spread the Word that only Jesus can save humans from their sins. Christians try to warn others that if they don't repent of their sins and seek Jesus, they will go to hell.

As a Christian (but not a very good one) I'm so sick of the wicked and their in-your-face debauchery. Christians are accused of being controlling, hypocritical and hateful. It's so disheartening and exhausting to try to talk to these people. Should I grieve for anyone who knowingly rejects Jesus and dies in their sins??? I'm sure God and Jesus are broken hearted. Somewhere people got the idea that Hell will be one big party. NOT!

Hi Papawj

Hebrews 6:6,

"If they shall fall away, (it is impossible) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Pay attention to that "it is impossible to renew them unto repentance". This obviously is not you, is it? People that fit to that verse never worry about things they do, they don't feel any sort of guilt, they would never repent. So stop worrying, you have been forgiven. Remember the prodigal son, his father was always waiting for him to come back and was ready to give him his previous place in the house. GBU

Jerry,

If you desire to be restored in faith and live for God, then you have not fallen so far as to be outside of the reach of God's grace and salvation.

One who has completely fallen away would be one who was a believer and completely renounced the Lord and faith in Him to the point of continuously stubbornly refuse to return to God and follow after God.

I hope this does not truly describe you since you desire to amend your ways. Don't give up hope. God has put this desire within you and He has given you this "wake up" call to bring you back to Him. Take Him up on this and ask Him to grant you full repentance and a full return to faith in Jesus that cannot be shaken again. He wants to save You and secure You in His kingdom.

Thank you Gigi and Bmorris for your replies and encouragement but the part I can't get past is, "For it is impossible".

Jerry,

You can always come to the feet of Jesus and seek forgiveness and restoration. 'god will receive you back "from the dead" if you so desire. The unrepentant backslider who has turned his heart from God without desiring to be rectified by God's grace and presence within is the one who in in peril.

BMorris, Good to hear from you.

Thank you for such a thoughtful reply. There is room for prodigals in God's "house" should they take God up on the repentance He extends to us and return to Him in humbleness, sincerity, and sorrow for having sinned against Him. And, yes, I agree, sin is a deadly thing, always. It deeply offends God and always harms the sinner in many ways. In the righteousness of Christ and a life of godliness we can know what true freedom is. It is certainly not the so-called freedom many feel sin affords them. In truth, it is bondage in the worst way.

I hope to hear more from you.

I usually do not reply to ay comment made on this website. I just read your comment and it pricked my heart. Jerry, yes we have an option to walk away from God and every gift he has given us. We can trodden under foot the son of God.

I want to make one thing very clear. God is not willing that any should perish. Yes, to fall away is a terrible thing and the punishment is great and if we stay in that state the punishment will be everlasting. The fruit that sin provides leaves a long trail that only God can mend, but my friend ease realize we have an advocate who loves us dearly.

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

I also want you to realize, we all need to realize that sin is not something we need to take lightly. Society today has put sin in such a light where some sin is not so bad, but when you put any sin before such a Holy God we can begin to realize how sick sin really is.

My friend you have a God who loves the backslider. If you come to him and repent My God will forgive you. Come to him in a true heart and he will forgive you. A lie of this world will tell you that if you were saved you're always saved that is hells longest standing lie. "ye shall not surely die" if you sin there is wages and that is death, but the gifts of God are eternal life through Jesus Christ our lord.

I was once a back slider and God was good and gracious to me. He found it fit so save this sinner boy. Now I am a new creature in Christ Jesus. I have many scars, but Gods Grace is sufficient. Now I am here today preaching the Gospel. If he can save me. He can save you. I am not ashamed of this Gospel, it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

Verses 4- 6. This is me. Am I damned to Hell?

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Reading the entire Book of Hebrews tells us that the Jews rejected these valuable teachings back then. Now many Jews today accepted the truth about what Jesus did on the cross. The trueagedbelievers are not a babe anymore. We are in the Kingdom of God for a long time. We are working to be holy because we know we are already saved until the Lord Jesus Christ will come and take us alive or dead n Christ. Something to be excited about. I cannot emphasized enough that once a true believer enters into the Kingdom of God you are God's children. Yes you will have afflictions, yes you will be mocked, yes you will have people around you who does not fully understand the power of God, yes we have unbelievers around us, then it is up to each of us how to show the Glory of God is in us. I read a few comments here and there in this site and I can only pray with the help of the true saints here that we all speak the same thing about the Kingdom of God and heaven above. There is no going back when you are a true believer. The struggles with flesh is your own will not of God. When you are with God you know everything. Be patient because good character is a work of a lifetime and as you aged you can reflect and say "oh that is what it meant to be." Let God do all the work. Jesus already won!

Verse 12-We must be hard working and keep doing what Jehovah God wants us to do. If we do our part, God will help us and give us the needed strength.

God's Holy Word is perfect! May God continue to open the eyes of people and draw them unto the glorious gospel of his Son. Amen.

Thank you. I needed to hear encouragement to pray for the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth , to listen to wait and rest, as I find myself getting caught up in needing answers 'now'. Thank you for the scripture references and encouragement to pray for others, and the reminder that God will protect his word.

God bless you

The Holy Spirit is Your Teacher

The desire for Jesus is in you already. The Bible is the Word of God. Like these following scriptures show us: with your own spoken words, ask the Holy Spirit to make His home within your heart, To be your Teacher. Thats his ministry to you. You will know He is teaching you. Open your mouth and speak: "Holy Spirit, come alongside and teach me what this passage means?"

Begin in the Gospels and stay in there until you know who Jesus is to you; what he likes; doesn't like; listen to his replies to people he met on his journeys.

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you.

Luke 12:12

For the Holy Ghost shall TEACH you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

2 Timothy 2:24

And the servant of the Lord must NOT strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, gentle

1 Timothy 6:3-4

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

THE FRUIT OF THE HOLY SPIRT

Galatians 5: 22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

NOW we see through a glass, DARKLY, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I AM KNOWN. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is Love.

God watches over His Word. We're going to meet people who oppose themselves. Sometimes more is accomplished by praying for them. Heartfelt prayer is always right. Jesus is interceding for US. King David was a man after Gods own heart. His prayers and Psalms will help you.

Mishael

People's Bible Notes Commentary Ephesians 4:13

Till we all come. These offices are given in order that all may come to a goal that is named just below. They must be continued in some form until that goal is reached. In the unity of the faith. This is one of the great objects to be attained through these offices. Paul, as an apostle and a prophet, exhorts to the same end in Eph 4:2. As an apostle and prophets, he so exhorts still. Every evangelist and pastor who is under God's spirit should labor to the same end. Not only "unity of the faith", but unity of the knowledge of the Son of God is aimed at. Full unity of the faith will be found when all alike know Christ. Unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. "Unto a fullgrown man" (Revised Version). The second end to be attained is a noble manhood, fully developed, after the modes of life furnished in Christ Jesus. This must be the aim of all teaching, and of all living. If we cannot attain fully to it in the flesh, we certainly can aim at it and grow more and more into Christ's likeness.

People's Bible Notes Commentary

Hebrews 6:19

Which [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul. As an anchor holds the ship when the storms are raging, so this hope holds the soul steadfast. And which we enter into that within the veil. The veil was before the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle, but it was a type of heaven. Hence this means that the hope reaches to heaven. It is a heavenly hope.

I'm sure some others will come in later and give more light on your questions.

Chris or any who want to reply:

Apologies for not responding earlier. Thank you for your response! I consider myself to be one who has been on 'milk' for way too long. I am now attending a local church and am in a woman's Bible study who is studying Hebrews.

I am also in dialogue with the pastor about salvation. He believes that man has his own will to 'walk away' from God and that God will not fight the will of man. Thankfully he is very open to questions and thus far from his sermons, is not one that preaches condemnation-works salvation.

From a very simple viewpoint, I think about ones who live in a rural area that have only one church available to them. This is likely not true now but in the past is a possibility. I say all this because won't there be many in that church community that are 'saved' but may have differing interpretations? Eph 4:13 came up in my study today, not sure I am taking it out of context, but could it support my simple viewpoint? Thank you again.

God bless you

I am sorry for the way I posted the question in my post. It should not have been posed as an accusatory "If you" question, as though my intent was to accuse you or the asker of the original question specifically. I should have at least said it as an "If I" or "if anyone" question instead. I agree with James that not many of us should be teachers and that I stumble in many ways in what I say. That is why I separated my opinion of the text given in my previous post from the original post I wrote that tries to lay out what the Bible actually says and how it is generally understood with what I hope was minimal commentary of my own.

In any event, I should have tried to make it even clearer that it is the author of the Book of Hebrews I would really be questioning for laying out such an extensive doctrine that largely appears to rest on Melchisedek having all of the characteristics he described, if in fact he knew or believed Melchisedek in reality was a man that was no different from the levitical priests who had none of Christ's preincarnate characteristics. If that was what he actually did, many if not most of his conclusions can be rejected as being based on a faulty premise or even worse an intentionally deceptive premise.

Ultimately I conclude the doctrine laid out by the author of Hebrews is actually based on his firm belief that Melchisedek is a preincarnate appearance of Christ, and the characteristics he attributes to Melchisedek as a result are actually true. The conclusions he reaches based on those characteristics are founded on a true premise in that event. Taking that as my view, I can have full confidence in his doctrine.

God Bless you, If anyone ask any question it deosnt mean that they asked wicked manner , if i or someone asking some clarification means they want to know the truth with bible reference. Anyhow God bless you abudantly.

Regards,

Prasanth Konde

You asked me to give my opinion, but before I did that I wanted to lay out what an opinion on this topic should be based on. Regardless of what conclusion I reach, you cannot base your opinion on that. You have to be convinced based on scripture more than anything I or anyone else says.

Now my opinion is that Melchisedek is a preincarnate appearance of Christ and that what the author of Hebrew attributes to Melchisedek are derived from Christ's actual preincarnate attributes. The appearance of Melchisedek is nonetheless presented convincingly as a man in the original account, as we should be convinced Christ's preincarnate appearances would not preclude Him from His incarnate appearance which makes Him our sympathetic High Priest.

The alternative interpretation that the author of Hebrews is taking advantage of an absence of information about Melchisedek to build an entire theology of Christ's High Priesthood around undermines his entire case. If you can falsely attribute Christ's attributes to a mere man that meets none of those qualifications to establish that Christ's High Priesthood and the nature of it predates the Levitical Priesthood and the inadequate nature of it, how have you proven anything other than that you may be a liar?

If Melchisedek was in reality just like the Levites that were born, lived and died and his nature in no way actually differed from theirs other than the point in time he arrived, the case made in the Book of Hebrews falls. Without the resurrection, had Christ merely become incarnate at a point in time and died on a cross, the entire Gospel falls.

Anyway that is my view.

Many think Melchisedec is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ. The passage in Genesis about Melchisadec taken just by itself does not give a clear indication of this:

Genesis 14:18-20 - 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

The primary basis for thinking Melchizedek is Christ is a result of the way the author of the Book of Hebrews interprets this passage to show the superiority and primacy of Christ's High Priesthood over the Levitical High Priesthood in connection with the Messianic Psalm of David, Psalm 110, particularly Psalm 110:4

4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

The primary passages in Hebrews dealing with Christ's High Priesthood are:

Hebrew 3:1-10, Hebrews 4:14-16, Hebrews 5, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 7.

Hebrews 7:1-3 is the most important passage to consider:

1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

One view of vs 3 is that Melchisedek is a man who lived and died, but the author of Hebrews is using the mystery/absence of this info to liken him to Christ in His preincarnate state. The other is that this actually is Christ in His preincarnate state, but He appeared as a man like He ultimately did to reveal Himself as Son of God for us in order to become our High Priest.

is Melchisedic is Jesus christ in Old testment . When we see in Bible Melchisedic doent have of Preshood Geneologly. can you please give us your opinion

Amen Brother Chris.

Well stated.

God bless.

Hi Janet. I hope brother Jesse does see your comment & responds, but if I might be allowed to share my understanding of this passage, Hebrews 6:4-9. And I include verse 9 because I believe it's vital to understanding what the Hebrews writer is conveying.

I agree, one could read this portion in various ways, but I read it like this: the writer is sharing an 'impossibility' with his readers. Why does he do this? Well, there were different types of people reading this epistle, chiefly those out of Judaism (as the Letter title suggests). Some had grown weak in faith (hence a 'word' of exhortation: 13:22). Some were in danger of being distracted by the old Judaistic beliefs which tend to minimize or reject the Person of Christ (mostly the whole letter given to this important point). Others were facing persecution (though not to the point of martyrdom: 12:3,4). And others, giving the appearance of being Christian, sharing with other believers in the blessings of God & illumination from His Word.

So what's the 'impossibility'? IF a true believer could fall away from salvation (i.e. lose his salvation by totally rejecting Christ), then he would have to make mockery of Christ's death by ever coming back to the Cross for salvation. The writer says that this is an impossibility - it cannot happen, He cannot be mocked. That is why he was persuaded (confident) that the true believers amongst them would never be like this sad example - rather, they would be bearing fruits from their salvation (v9). And so they were being encouraged to press on in their walk & not grow weary or lose heart. But the imposter 'believer' who ultimately turns his back to Christ, maybe with slanderous words against the One Who came for him, and after receiving every opportunity & blessing from the Word & Holy Spirit, has no further chance of returning back or gaining salvation. See also Hebrews 10:26-29: for a similar warning to those who grievously sin by rejecting Christ to return to Judaism.

Jesse

Not sure you will see this but one question, it says they will be partakers of the Holy Spirit. Does this mean they have received the Holy Spirit? My assumption is yes. So they were believers? Thank you

I know all that, Charles. Most people know water baptism follows salvation. Sooner rather than later.

"My people perish for lack of knowledge"

Not everyone knows that, upon Salvation; they are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, by Jesus. Indwelling within their spirit. Book of John teaches it.

That's why we need people to lead the lambs to the good SHEPHERD; of the Bible.

Jesus calls. We follow. He appoints. We follow.

We preach the GOSPEL__which is Jesus Christ:

Birth, life, death, resurrection. He made disciples__we make disciples. It's a five fold ministry: open your hand. The thumb is the apostle, the forefinger is the prophet; the middle is the teacher, ring finger the Pastor that carries Jesus's lambs, the little finger-the evangelist. The thumb touches upon all 4 fingers (Jesus).

Apostles are those who saw the risen Christ with their eyes. They were Sent to plant churches. Quite possibly they are missionaries that Go Ye all around the Globe_planting churches; building schools.

Don't disparage on what other Disciples are doing. Most of us are doing what The Holy Spirit shows us to be doing. Our work: good, bad, or whatever, is unto the Lord Jesus. There will be the Bema Seat Judgment to sort out the wood, hay or stubble_later. Jesus knows what's in our hearts, all along the way.

I've been an evangelist for 30+ years, over 4 states. I've moved 22 times. I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the POWER OF GOD unto Salvation. I love my life and it wakes me up happy, every day. I fix things I can, and give those I can't; to Jesus.

I am a story teller, not a scholar. I'm nothing without the Holy Spirit. I worship Jesus with my life; but the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit and my beloved friend. We sing together sometimes. He doesn't even mind if I sing like a frog. I keep hoping for a miracle :D for other peoples sakes.

I'm 70 and I've witnessed the final generation:

The Terminal generation of the Fig Tree.

Sister GiGi,

Thanks for responding. Recently, family and related issues have been keeping my attention. Although, I try to check in here periodically, and read many posts, but regrettably, I don't always have the time to give response.

Glad to see you are a regular here, love your posts, and glad that you are sharing God's Words!

God Bless.

Good afternoon Bro Dan, I was wondering about you since we hadn't heard from you for a while.

It seems that the topic of baptism comes up on this forum every 3 or 4 weeks in the past few months. It usually gets a fair amount of exchange among posters. I do think that is a good thing because someone new has asked a question concerning this topic and the site does not keep prior posts about this and other topics very long.

Thank you for your stand on this. I agree with you. I just cannot brush away the commands of Jesus on this as I have not found a place in the NT that explicitly says that baptism as these apostles knew it at the time Jesus gave His command (water baptism) was ever rescinded or replaced with the "baptism of the Holy Spirit". But many on here will present their rebuttal on this like in the past. It is important to speak to this. So thank you.