James Chapter 1 Discussion Page 6

As you stated. If it may be the way we word things we post that may seem we might not see eye to eye. I don't think we are far off from each other. Though really the most important thing is that we are both with the Lord. As some of my other brothers and sisters here may not agree with me fully on everything. That's ok though. Again the most important thing is Jesus Christ. It is good for us to converse and if we do not agree on a certain point that's ok. We are still of the body of Christ and only trying to help one another.

Just for a couple other Scriptures with some things that are "above", of God, and "agathos" is not used:

Matthew 5:16 and Matthew 13:37-38. About letting your light shine before men of your "good" works to glorify our Father. That the "good" seed are the children of the Kingdom sowed by the Son of Man.

John 10:11. Jesus Christ stating He is the "good" Shepherd.

1 Timothy 2:3. Things being "good" and acceptable in the sight of God.

Titus 2:14. That we who are redeemed by the Lord be zealous of "good" works.

Hebrews 6:5. How the Word of God is "good".

James 2:7. The "worthy" name by which we were called.

To end I liked this one. Galatians 5:22. Both "agathos.." and "chrestotes" are fruits of the Spirit.

As I really can't differentiate that only "agathos.." is of the Spirit of God. That being the word Jesus used in Mark 10:18 does not mean to me this is only for Him. As other words like "excellence, righteous, honorable, wonderful, amazing, almighty, glorious, holy, beautiful, perfect, integrity, etc". To me this does not mean we would have to pick only one of these words for God. All of them fit Him perfectly. As I believe in the Greek, and most other languages, they have different words with somewhat of the same meaning.

God Bless.

The simple answer is being led by the spirit of God .

Hi Jesse,

Thank you for your added detail.

I'm not sure where you get this idea though: "There is a difference, and God will only reward us for one of these two."

It sounds like you interpret good works to be bad unless you feel a certain spiritual confirmation before or during the good work activity? How exactly did you come to this understanding and what Bible sources can you cite to say this?

I find this unusual, because I find life as a Christian has a spiritual component that is hard to separate. I believe something of the 'flesh' is easier to identify, because it usually involves unpure motives and sin. But it sounds like you're suggesting that obeying Jesus (such as doing good works to help others) has unpure motives and you put a screening layer in place which you have to navigate through in order to feel good about obeying Jesus.

My perspective is different. I feel that obeying Jesus by default is good, and that helping others by default is good, and already is done via spirit and not fleshly. It would be really hard to convince me that doing good is bad, because doing good is all through the Bible. Galatians 6:9, Matthew 5:16, Ephesians 2:10. We're created to do good works and be the light of the World are we not? James 2:14-17, James 4:17, Micah 6:8. I don't think my motives or my mood even matters sometimes, it's not about me, but serving others and being obedient. Selflessness.

So, my question is: does someone have such a strong filter for all other aspects of life or only when it comes to obeying Jesus and help others? Brushing teeth? Eating a meal? Gassing up a car? Going to work? Watching movies? If the strong filter is only on doing good works, but not on neutral activities, or bad works, then I would think such a perspective seems off balance. Because why should we hesitate only when it comes to doing good and have to pass certain criteria, but have no problem doing anything other than good?

Let me know if I have misinterpreted your meaning and where you got the idea about good works requiring certain criteria for God to like it? God bless...

Hi Richard,

You are free to join the conversation anytime as this is an open forum. I completely agree with you that God is good. Perhaps maybe the way we word things (Not just you and me) might cause us to sometimes be in disagreement, even though we might believe the same thing. I only used those two words because I was trying to show the difference between the good of God, and humanitarian good.

Any time the word good is used when referring to God, it is the word Agathos. Jesus said when answering the man who called Him good master, He said why did you call me Agathos? There is only one who is Agathos, and that is God. This man was speaking to deity and he used the proper word for good.

I agree that there are a few other words than the two I mentioned, but none of the others can be specifically applied to God Himself. When we say God is good, we are saying God is Agathos. There are words in our English bible where we see a word in English and we only come away with one meaning to that word. Good is just one example.

Another example would be the word carnal. We see the word carnal in English, and we might assume that carnal is always bad. Well, it can be bad. But did you know a believer can be carnal and it is perfectly normal?



I understand where you're coming from and I think we do agree on some things. I chose those two words because I believe that Godly good is Agathos, and humanitarian good is Kalos. The other words can also be used, although if I used those words, they would not properly convey the point I was trying to make.

I am running out of space with so much more to write, but I will cut it off here. You bring up a couple of verses in 1 Timothy that I've not thought about before which is a good thing because it challenges me to search the scriptures, and I do thank you for that.



God Bless!!!

Hello Jesse,

Please forgive me as I don't want to get in between the discussion of you & Adam. Though I feel to write my perception on this matter. As I believe it is important to us all.

To begin I don't feel what you stated about the two Greek words for "good", meaning one is of God and the other of men, is completely accurate. First I would say everything good is of God weather the person knows God literally or not. As Love is of God and those who abide in love are of Him to 1 John 4:7. Now weather that person has been drawn to the light, Jesus Christ, yet is up to God. Also stated in Romans 2:12-15 about how those who do what is right or "good", even though they have not heard the law, shows Gods law written on their hearts. They being obedient to God and not even knowing it.

Back to the word "good" in the Greek. The two words you gave are the two words used the most for "good" in the NT. G18 and G2570. Though they are not the only words used for simply put "good". We have "cherestotes-G5544", "eudokia-G2107', and "eupoiia-G2140" for a couple others. Showing in Hebrews 13:16 that just because it's not the word "agoth.." doesn't mean God isn't pleased with it.

Also how in a couple instances like 1 Timothy 6:18, and 1 Timothy 5:10. the words "agoth.." and "kalos" are both used in the same verse.

Now of coarse what you stated in that if someone seems to be trying to "earn" there way into Heaven, by good works, hopefully they will find out there is only one way and that is Jesus Christ. We have all fallen short in our lives. Thanks be to the Grace of our Father in Heaven He sent us His Son. To now focus on Him and let Him lead the way for us. We need Jesus Christ our Lord just as we need our Father in Heaven.

God Bless you Jesse. Please don't let my message come to you the wrong way. It is from the heart.

brother Jesse, I am going to meditate on that thought!

God bless our faithfulness!

Thanks, Carleton for sharing that from the Spanish Bible. I did not know that. The word "Word" in the Greek text is the word LOGOS. How would we be able to tie LOGOS in with "el Verbo" to come up with the same meaning of the word "Word"?

LOGOS is a very special word that began to be used around 600 years before Christ by the Greek philosophers. LOGOS was not just the word, but LOGOS was the thinker behind the universe.



I guess if "el Verbo" describes an action, and to the Greeks, the LOGOS was known as the "Thinker behind the universe," the action would be God's creation? Just a thought!

Adam,

Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's nice to be able to come and share our perspectives. You ask me about my statement that a doer of the word doesn't mean that I take my bible and go out and do it, so please allow me to explain myself. I gave the context on James 1:22, but perhaps I could have simplified it some.



What I'm trying to show is the difference between a "hearer" and a "doer" of the word. What I'm also showing is the difference between a true believer (one who has been born of God's Spirit), and a person who claims to be a believer or Christian, but has never been born of the Spirit.

A hearer only is someone who hears the word but has never applied it to his/her heart, and the consequence is that they never produce any spiritual fruit. Sure, they might go out and do "good" things because, you know, "the bible tells me to." But that's the wrong approach to take. If a person does good out of human ambition, or they feel obligated to, God's not going to reward them for that.

The only good we can do that is pleasing to God is when we are being persuaded by His Spirit to do good. There are two words for good in the Greek text that we must be able to differentiate between. One is human good (Kalos). And the good that is produced by, and is the result of God's Spirit working in a believer's life and persuading the believer to do good is (Agathos).

When we do good, are we doing it because God's Spirit is persuading us to do it? Or are we doing it because the bible tells us to do it, so we better "get busy" and start doing it? There is a difference, and God will only reward us for one of these two.



One is works-based, and the other is produced by God's Spirit. The "hearer only" cannot produce spiritual good. The doer is the one who both hears the word, applies it to his/her heart, and then submits to the persuasion of God's Spirit working through them to produce the good. But He produces it, we don't!

Hopefully, I've explained myself?

Hello Adam and Jesse, action is present even at the Cross. The "Word" in the Spanish Bible in John 1:1 is called "el Verbo".

Says a lot.

Hi Jesse, I'd like to offer a different perspective on your comment:

>"So a doer of the word in my understanding doesn't mean that I take my bible and go out and do it"

If the good Samaritan followed this advice he would not have stopped to help the injured man. Luke 10:25-37 Maybe he would have walked on by because he already knew who he was in his own mind, and didn't want to risk being 'legalistic' or obedient, as if that's a bad thing. Reminds me of a Pharisee- who felt self-righteous but didn't have good deeds as fruit that show their faith in action.

Matt 25:40 comes to mind: "...as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

The push to not be obedient or do good works seems contradictory to this verse: James 1:22 and so many others throughout the Bible - would God tell us we don't need to obey Him and to not do what He says, or would someone else be behind this? Who is the most likely source that tells us that being good is bad and doing bad is good?

Matthew 25 and basically most of Jesus' parables were about the same thing: being prepared, because a day will come and we will be separated and judged and accountable for our actions. The foolish virgins were unprepared and did nothing. The bag of gold parable Jesus called the one who did nothing but hid the gold "wicked and slothful." Jesus said about the ones who did nothing (no works) to help others sent them to hell: Matt 25:44-46

Jesus also said about obedience: John 14:15.

To anyone claiming good deeds and works is 'bad' notice that the Bible is full of instruction to do good deeds and works. One would have to ignore nearly the entire Bible in order to come to such a conclusion. If our actions didn't' matter then the Bible wouldn't have continually said it DOES matter and we will literally be judged for it. We are saved by grace, we don't earn heaven, but Christianity is a verb = action.

2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:12, Gal 5:13, Matthew 10:42

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. [James is saying that if you fail to obey what you hear spoken by Christ to you from within your heart, you are deceiving yourself that obedience is not essential. Obedience leads to righteousness, and obedience leads to salvation; without obedience you will experience neither.]

23 For if anyone is only a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror,

24 Who looks at himself and goes on his way, immediately forgetting what he looked like.

to be only a hearer of the word and not a doer of the word is to be shown by the Lord some aspect of your slavery to sin, and then to ignore it, continuing in your old way. When a man loves his ways, he cannot hear the Lord's gentle attempts to alert him to his errors. So he blithely continues on his chosen path, which, unless eventually forsaken, leads him to destruction. As Jesus said: But he who hears, and does not [practice my teachings], is like a man who built an house upon the earth without a foundation; against which the torrent struck violently, and immediately it collapsed; and the ruin of that house was great. Luke 6:49. Note "hearers of the word," not readers of the word; James is speaking about hearing the word that is in your heart.

Hi Fred, the climate for staying true if we have been made true by dying to sin and living unto Him (Jesus) seems to ne changing perhaps for the worse. There will aways be a place of refuge for the one who knows Calvary who has repented of sin and desires to be in fellowship with Jesus and fellow saints. The gates of hell will not prevail against her. Now if we mimic her in our lives by never coming to fruition (maturity) with Jesus Christ then judgement may come in this earth. Politicians come and go at the hands of countries that allow voting by their citizens. But are not the true Christians pilgrims and strangers passing through to their new home, New Jerusalem?

"Visiting the Fatherless and the widows". We see these things mostly with the refugee. More than ever are we afflicted with refugees. The world over ,created mostly from sin. How many homes continue to be destroyed, How many widows are born, how many children wander in the desert wilderness? While the politician can only see himself. The politician, looks always to put the blame somewhere else! He even creates his walls for protection, only for himself! And yet, they say the child is not mine, the cry u hear is someone else's child! The city, even is lost, with no borders that hold righteousness. There is no fear of God, all have gone astray! The scripture, written for our learning and instruction in righteousness, are only words? You too faithless one, will soon will find there are no gates to protect you! Judgment has arrived at the house of Israel!

Diannq,

I would like to share with you my understanding of James 1:22. James gives us the explanation in James 1:23 of who a doer is. The person who is a hearer only, hears the law, he has the law convict him and prove to him that he is a sinner, but he goes away and forgets what kind of man he is.

The person who is the doer of the word is the person who continues in the word. That is, the word has shown him his sinfulness, and his need for Christ, and he doesn't forget that. He pursues!

So a doer of the word in my understanding doesn't mean that I take my bible and go out and do it, which is a major teaching in the western world because we are "works" oriented.

But in context, he's talking about the Jewish person who hears the law and says amen, and then he walks out and forgets what kind of person he is.

In principle it would also apply to the Gentiles, to go and hear the word, understand what it says, see my part in it, hear what God has to say to me, and then leave and just forget the whole thing and not continue in it. We are to continue in it, pray about it, and continue to read it over, asking God to work it out!

I have heard James 1:22 often and kept it in my heart. Be he does of the word and not heaters only. We can hear a verse all our lives and never really know the true meaning until one day God gives us a ha ha moment. To think how that happens! I missed the real meaning...Be he doers of the word is the part I wasn't getting. So what is the true meaning of "be he does of the word?" If we just hear and are never afflicted or challenged what is the profit? If we never take some spiritual morsel away what does it profit to just hear? One of my problems growing up is I was taught to be a hearer, to be quiet, to listen but never given direction on doing. I can promise me that I will never just be a hearer but will be a does of the word. Counsel, direction and constant study await those who look for spiritual guidance.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles by God's choice. The Lord Jesus declared that He had a specific mission for Paul: "This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel" ( Acts 9:15). Paul had been set apart from birth and called by God's grace so that he might "preach [Christ] among the Gentiles" ( Galatians 1:15-16).

Are you a Gentile? Then you need to go to the Apostle Paul to find out how to be saved, what we cal "born again".

This passage of scripture is 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, but verse three and four, is the Gospel, the good news that Christ took our place so that we might have live everlasting.

Jesus commanded his 12 Disciples NOT to go to the Gentiles, in Matthew 10 1-7, and then about eighteen years later, he sent Paul to the Gentiles, WHY? Because he had a different Gospel for the Gentiles, "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:31. That Gospel is for the Jews. And Paul's Gospel is for the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" You can plainly see they are different. Peter, nor any of the 12 apostles preach that "Jesus died for our sins" as Paul did. Check out these two scriptures John 20:31, and 1st Corinthians 15:3,4.

To believe in him

What your husband is endeavouring to do may show some value, particularly to those who are uninformed about the global political situation, but to devote so much time to information gathering & publishing where attendance at your Fellowship has to be neglected, is not only a misdirected quest but detrimental to his spiritual life, his family & even those he knows at Church. He may not see it now, thinking that he has it all under control & his faith is strong, but one of the many reasons we attend Church is to bring our lives & our thoughts into a correct perspective, by paying special attention to the reading of the Word, singing to the Lord, & to receive both a mental & spiritual challenges from the message by God's servant. Tell him that to give up just a couple of hours on a Sunday to worship as a couple & meet & encourage the others whom you know there, is vital to all & brings glory to God.

Don't discourage him from his 'watchman' pursuit, though I wonder whether all the information he gleans is actually true, verifiable & profitable to others. I think most of us realize that world leaders, even the honest, upright ones, have to stay true to their political affiliation, which often goes against what is right & proper, even against biblical standards & values. So what must be the condition of those who are corrupt, self-seeking & give little value to life. And even if he exposes all this, I wonder whether his purposes would ever be fully realized. In any case, if he sees that you are supportive of him to some extent & interested, he may well consider your appeal to him, favourably.

Indeed, God is still in control even though at times it may not appear to be so. All these griefs we face must come to pass as part of God's Agenda - it may be worthwhile to warn others, but more so to look to our own spiritual health & family needs first. There has to be a balance in whatever we do, & the end of it has to be for God's Glory. 1 Corinthians 10:31: "whatever we do".

I think you are indeed in need ,i cant and wont tell you what to do ,i can only say what i would do in your shoes ,1st i wouldnt get into big discussions that may lead to arguements with your husband ,2nd i would continue to be joyfull and do everything to maintain my conection with my God and my Saviour joyfully ! 3rd i would try very hard not to get too annoyed with him and i would pray for him ,hopefully he will see sense in his own time but meantime i would continue to be me and pray for Gods blessings and mercy to continue on you both ,be as patient as youcan be with Gods help .

My husband is very keen on being "the watchman on the wall" like in ?Ezekiel or is that ?Micah... anyhow he is so keen on preaching what he knows to those around us... especially our grown up children that he doesn't want to go to church anymore and would prefer to 'study" at home... ie... study the right wing websites for what horrible things the world leaders are doing now and then exposing these on his Facebook page for all to look at in horror and wring their hands.... I'm kinda tired of living in a "henny penny, the sky is falling" way. I trust that what is happening is still under God's direction and control despite the badness. How can I help my husband see that all is not lost and that God is supreme? I feel strongly he and his cronies are very puffed up and prideful... my husband has said to me that I am "ignorant". I'm not. I just chose to see the good not the continual bad. (all that is good, perfect and acceptable.... dwell on these things.). I'm in need of spiritual help here!

Rick Renner Ministry have a world wide intercessory prayer ministry. They know what it means to stand in the gap. The enemy blows a hole in the wall of spiritual warfare. Ephesians 6. They stand in the weakened place till it can be repaired.

It's not a prayer like: "Oh Dear God bless me, bless my family, friends....".

It's a prayer of War, as if standing in the cavity of a hole so Satan and his evil beings cannot breach the broken place. If you see a wolf trying to hamstring a baby sheep; you'd shelter it in your arms until the SHEPHERD appears rescue the lost youngling.

You become like a heavenly type of sheepdog. You serve The Master. His pay, is oneness. It requires much observation and waiting patiently for the merest glance from the master; the Chief of the shepherds.

Watch a competition of Irish shepherds and their dogs, on YouTube maybe. Look into that dogs eye! He is intense at waiting for "the look"; command. His whole body quivers for the command to go !

Do we wish to be the Glory? Or to serve the glory? What makes our feet leap out of bed each morning? What does Jesus see in our lives..Every day and on Sunday too?

Don't look and sound like the World. This world is not our forever home. Amen?

Heaven is very practical and less mystical..if you can perceive the sheepdog. Mishael

Angela Ford,

"I want to read a book on healing..."

Because you are here on the KJV site, I'll assume you want to understand the subject from a biblical perspective. In which case there is no one book of the Bible with a focus on that topic, however, you can use the search feature at the top of the page to enter words such as heal, sick, illness, and the like, to find every passage in the Bible to see what is said there. I hope that helps.

I want to read a book on healing.....

First, the verse, you are in question is Mark 12:30 if we think about what Jesus says it is really simple you have to love the Lord with all of yourself. If your mind is not focused on the Lord then the rest of yourself will wander. With all the false preaching and people following these false preachers you have to stay focused on the word and the Lord. The lord already knew what today would be like so he put mind so we would not be lead astray. Stay focused on the Lord study your bible and pray. I hope this helps any more questions please feel free to ask or reach me in my email. Thank you.

If someone is torn between two ways of life, then they'll be changing their ways based on how they feel at the moment, so his ways are unstable since they are constantly changing. This person ends up getting the worst of both worlds; the guilt coming from a desire to be righteous, and the pain coming from a life of sin.

This seems to be a chapter describing the 4 cherubim worshiping around the throne of God.

do you have a study, uderstanding or belief on ezekiel chap 1 verses 1 to 27.

Hi Anne, give the scripture you are referring to. Thank you

Anne, may the Spirit grace you with his understanding;

Hebrews 11 is a testament about the old testament saints; but pay close attention to verses 39 and 40.

Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all (old testament saints), having obtained a good report through (the work of the Spirit of Christ or the Holy Ghost which is) faith, received not the promise (eternal life, incorruption, immortality):

(vs) 40 God (Spirit) having provided some better thing for us (children of the resurrection), that they (old testament saints) without us (children or the resurrection) should not be made perfect (complete in the Spirit of Christ or the Holy Ghost who only hath immortality 1 timothy 6:16).

John 11:25 ..... I am the resurrection......

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us ( old testament saints, children or the resurrection and Christ) up together......

Revelation 20:5 .... this is the first resurrection....

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many of the bodies of the (old testaments) saints which slept (died waiting for the promise) arose,

(vs) 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city (new Jerusalem)......

Revelation 7:1-4 (vs) 3 ......till we (Spirit) have sealed our servants (old testament) saints in their foreheads (given them the mind of Christ)......

Revelation 14:4 .......these (old testament saints) were redeemed from among men, being the FIRST FRUITS unto God.....

Revelation 1:3 .... for the time is at hand...

May the Spirit grace you with his wisdom.

I think king Saul went to heaven. Did I understand the scripture correctly