James Chapter 2 Discussion Page 2

@Suze: Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be difficult. I just want clarification.

Luke 14:

12 Then said he (Jesus) also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbors; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.

13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:

14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Who was Jesus talking to?? The "Jews". "....call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind..."

Jesus didn't say to invite the infidels or Baal worshippers. Let them Repent first, then they can be helped.

And what does the incident of that woman pouring expensive oil on the head of Jesus have to do with giving to infidels?

I'm pretty sure the Lord God laid it on that woman's heart to do that. She knew in her heart that Jesus was worthy of that expensive oil. But Jesus's "apostles" murmured among themselves calling it a waste.

People often begrudge others what they themselves cannot have.

Satan and his followers cannot ever have salvation so they begrudge it to others, and try to destroy them.

The poor, the hungry cannot have, so they steal from those that do.

Re. Christ deniers: Unless God calls them (like He did to the Apostle Paul) any kindness we show them is, in my opinion, for nothing. And even after Paul converted, he was treated with distain by the other Apostles.

It would be nice if everyone gave to others like Jesus wanted us to, but that's not what happens. Giving should be reciprocal-

(I give to you, you give to them, they give to me) but it doesn't work that way.

"...for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just."

Just being allowed into Heaven should be enough recompense for anyone.

I'm sorry if I have offended you . I guess we are have different views on this subject and that's ok with me .

@Suze - in Reply on James 2

You: "When we do good to anyone we are not just doing good to them, we are doing ourselves good also, and all non Christians are potential Christians and should be treated as such."

I disagree. Many are called but few are chosen. Jesus preached to the masses but many rejected him. And, we don't give because it makes us feel good. We do it out of obedience to God/Jesus.

Matthew 10:16

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

You have to use some discernment when it comes to giving to strangers. (infidels) I was in line at the checkout at the grocery store. As I was leaving, the man bend me was trying to pay for some food but he didn't have enough money, so I gave him what I had.

That's one thing. Supporting the heathen is another.

You: "We, as Christians own nothing and we should always be ready to give anything that we consider ours to anyone who asks us for it, and even give before we are asked, it's not always easy to part with our goods, but if you do it without hesitation or grudging it's an awesome feeling, you instantly know that you have done the right thing in Gods sight and He blesses us in our generosity towards others."

Nope!

I need a few things. Can you buy me a new furnace? No. Of course not and I wouldn't ask you.

Jesus owned absolutely nothing except the clothes he was wearing. Many times he was sustained by the kindness of those who believed in Him, and this is the man who could feed the multitudes with a few loaves and fishes.

You: "One time , a man stopped me in the street and asked if I could give him some money so he could get something to eat."

(Then you were angry with yourself because you couldn't help.)

There you have it. All Christians are on a guilt trip. We are besieged by people with their hands out and then we get this

"Fine Christian you are" if we don't help. No other religious group is as put upon as Christians.

The "sinners" Jesus ate with were chosen. They were people who were open to what He had to say. God chooses whom He will. Unlike the Pharisees, Scribes and Elders who already made up their minds Jesus was a rebel, and harassed Him every chance they got.

May God continue to bless you Alex and may He continue to bless us with your presence on here .

Dear Dgjot , this is my last appeal to you my brother , please read Matt Ch 26 V 6-16 , Mark Ch 14 V 3-11 , Luke Ch 14 V 12-14 and finally John Ch 12 V 1-8 . I shall hassle you no more , God bless you .

Dear brother, I'll tell you a true story. Some years ago a sister in Christ over here owned a pizza house. A guy, a drug addict often came in since he knew there was always a plate with food and a glass of wine available for him there for free. The sister always talked to him about Jesus and salvation. Nothing seemed to occur for several years. Once he came to the church but he was too stoned to understand anything. Time passed by and that guy eventually believed in Jesus and his life changed completely. He became a very happy person, he always mentioned that he was the only one from his friends that escaped heroin, the rest died. Afterwards he became a street preacher. He was going to all the places that drug addicts gathered and talked to them about Jesus. In my life I never met such a person with such a courage when preaching in public. He had no fear or shame at all. So you never know what God's plan is for people and who eventually will be saved. Sometimes we have to be patient. As someone in another post said, often love is going to attract people to Jesus.

GBU

Dear Dgjot , I am genuinely worried for you my brother . You have read those verses in James and yet they don't seem to mean anything to you . Have you honestly read all the Bible ? If your answer is 'yes' then you know that there are dozens upon dozens of verses that I could quote to you . Here are a few , please read carefully Rev Ch 2 V 4 , Rev Ch 3 17-20 , Deuteronomy Ch 24 V 10-22 and James Ch 4 V 17 . Don't you know that you own nothing ? Don't you know that you are not of this world ? Therefore your attitudes should not be the same as the world's attitudes . Don't you know that you cannot , not should not , you cannnnot judge the hearts and minds of others ? I worry that the people that you are mixing with are encouraging you in this cynical attitude , I don't care if they are church people , if they are church people they should know better than to stray from the first principals of Christianity and the direct commandments of God and Christ who are the head of all Christians , we answer to them , not to each other . I pray you will recognise that your heart is hardening and that you will please take steps to come back to Him who loves you and who has saved you from yourself and this world through His supreme act of....love . Much love to you in Christ .

Suze GBU Very well said....God sees our hearts...Amen

I'm guessing , though I may be wrong about this , that you have never been hungry or homeless ? I have been both when I was a young woman . Jesus says that when we ask for blessings on some one that we should not turn our eyes away if we can physically help some one in a practical way , not just spiritual . It's hard to concentrate on anything when you are cold and hungry , your physical uncomfortableness is very distracting . Also , who are we to judge what is in any one's heart or mind ? Only God knows that and your act of kindness may help to open some one's heart to the Truth . I have never for one second forgotten even the smallest act of kindness that anyone has ever done for me , even things from decades ago . Jesus says about the good Samaritan "go , and do likewise " , he's talking to us when he says that .

You too ELB , much love in Christ .

Amen sister Suze

God Bless YOU!

Jesus gave and gave even go do called infidel He ate with sinners how can people learn of Jesus if we only share with other believers Jesus is out pattern He never withheld gifts to do called unworthy but freely He gave ....

I do believe that charity begins at home , meaning , we should look after our family first , as Christians who is our family ? Also , do not the dogs eat the crumbs from the masters table ? God is the God of all flesh not just Christians and one day all flesh will know the Truth and rejoice in it . When we do good to anyone we are not just doing good to them we are doing ourselves good also and all non Christians are potential Christians and should be treated as such . Weren't we all despicable sinners at some point in our past ? Are we all still sinners now ? All flesh is blessed by God every day . We , as Christians own nothing and we should always be ready to give anything that we consider ours to anyone who asks us for it and , even give before we are asked , it's not always easy to part with our goods , but if you do it without hesitation or grudging it's an awesome feeling , you instantly know that you have done the right thing in Gods sight and He blesses us in our generosity towards others . One time , a man stoped me in the street and asked if I could give him some money so he could get something to eat , I was devastated because I had no cash on me , I had left it all at home . I was so angry and upset with myself I vowed to never leave my house again without at least a few dollars in my pocket . I don't knowingly give cash to drug addicts but will always give to anyone who asks me , cash or food . There's no better feeling than to know for sure that you have done your duty in God's eyes .

@Daniel: I'm not deliberately shutting anyone out from the Gospel. But neither will I support someone who just uses me, pretending to want to hear the gospel, in order to get food, clothing & shelter. Been there, done that. I took in a friend once. I used to leave Bible verses taped to the refrigerator, and they got offended and told me to quit putting them up. How's that for nerve!

And another thing, people only want to hear the nice verses in the Bible about forgiveness and the love of Jesus. Then they go out and sin thinking that, "Jesus loves me no matter what" and go back to mischief. It's better to warn them that if they don't repent, they may be facing hellfire and brimstone. At least that gets them to thinking.

Some people are brought to Jesus out of gratitude for what He did for them. Some people are scared into repenting and seeking Jesus. Some people play the system, thinking they can do whatever they want and God will still forgive them.

Thank You, Adam.

I see this as not divided by believer or non-believer, but between those who are open to receive help and those who don't want it, as you said. From what I can tell Jesus divided His time evenly between His followers and just general people. He didn't heal everyone and couldn't minister to everyone's needs. While He did meet some physical needs the greatest value He offered was spiritual needs and not everyone was ready to receive such help.

Sounds like your expectations of others in church was a mismatch to what was being offered. Church cultures vary. Some people don't want others all in their business. So, not everyone wants to be super close in that way. Sometimes a few church members aren't nice, but those few don't represent the culture of the church. There are always oddballs in any group. Sometimes people you assume are doing fine aren't. Maybe they have had incredible stress and drama that you had no idea of, just like they had no idea of your hardships. But just because someone has hardships doesn't mean they want help. Since you had disappointments with that church I would suggest going to another- until you find what matches the experience you're looking for. Or maybe start your own Bible study group and you can set the level of interactivity you want.

@Ty:

You: "I will help a homeless "crackhead" on the street just as fast as I will help a brother or sister in my church. But that is what God has laid within my heart."



Some people just can't be helped. Many of these people don't want help. You did what you thought was the Christian thing to do.

In Philadelphia there's a street called Kensington. That's where all the drug addicts loiter around. Christian-Street-Preachers are out there every day handing out food, water and tracts. The crackheads will take the food and whatever is given to them and throw the tracts in the street.

Meanwhile, your brother or sister in your church is probably suffering in silence. Do you know how many times I needed help and none was given? My "brothers and sisters" probably assumed that God would supply all my needs, and turned a blind eye. I quit going to church. It turned into a social club. Party, party, party.

At the place where I used to work, I had dropped hints that I was going through a hard time. Many of the people, who claimed to be Christians, knew what I was going through and just wagged their heads. They assumed because I was single and childless that I was a secret millionaire. Many times I went without sufficient food, eating only once a day. I went without a hot water heater for 5 months (during the winter), and a refrigerator for 2 years. My car was falling apart and I didn't have the money to either fix or replace anything. They all knew. They didn't care and, most of these people had spouses bringing in a 2nd income or parents that helped them out. I had neither.

So don't talk to me about Christian-charity.

Dear Dgjot.

Since we christians often say that we have to aquire a character similar to Jesus Christ's, then lets ask ourselves what would Jesus do in such a case? Would He love all those you mention in your post and want to save them or not. The answer you give to that is what you (and all of us) should do as well. Now to understand this well, when we say we have to love them, this doesn't mean that we accept what they do but we love them and want them to believe in Jesus and change. How are people going to change for the better if they don't get to know Jesus? Only God can change people, like that thief who was crucified next to Jesus. A thief, probably a murderer or a rapist and who knows what things he had done so they crucified him. Was he a good person? Also it is very important to know that if you think that there is a danger if you come close to people like him then you must protect yourself and keep a safe distance. Pray for them from far away, don't get close to them. Help them but also keep yourself safe, you will find a way for this. Ask God to direct you. Not every case is the same.

Now about what you ask whom do we have to help first, please think if you have a kid who is hungry and needs food, would you give that food first to a stranger or to your kid?

GBU

Hi Dgjot. I believe that James 2:14-17 is given essentially to those in the family of God. Also 1 John 3:17. Our care & concern must first be to those 'within', as also in Acts 2:44,45 (to all, according to each one's need).

But should "Christian charity" be confined to those in the faith? We can think of the parable of the Good Samaritan ( Luke 10:30-36). A certain lawyer came to Jesus enquiring about attaining eternal life. Jesus asked him of what the Law required. He quoted correctly, but then asked, 'who is this neighbour that I'm supposed to love'? And Jesus' parable gave him the answer.

Yes, we must care for our own house first, whether one's earthly or spiritual family. But that love in our hearts must be demonstrated to others in need, maybe I should say, in real need; for there are many that wilfully misuse what they have & so find themselves in poverty. Yet, many others are genuinely in financial trouble, & we might be able to provide either some money, food or goods to help them out. I don't look at the 'Christ deniers' spirit when giving help to others, rather, whether there is a real need there - and usually God's Spirit instructs & prompts me to give or not. And you can give to them, in the Name of Jesus the Lord, that the receiver might know that this small gift is directed by Him through you, His servant.

But I agree with you, if you know of people or organizations that promote ungodliness & are destroyers of people's lives or country, then your gifts are better served to those who are in genuine need & their appreciation for your help & quick chat with them, will be a blessing to you both.

This is easy for me.

Jesus instructed us to love thy neighbor as thyself. Jesus came not for the saved but for the lost, the gentiles.

Jesus was looked down upon when he invited gentiles to eat at the table with the others.

Think of the parable of the lost sheep.

Many examples in the Bible.

If we ONLY help the saved, what work are we actually doing? Do we just leave the unsaved in the dark? No.

Through charity and love we help many. Through charitable works we show love and we show the character of Jesus to others. We show and instill hope. That love, often, is what brings gentiles, unbelievers, sinners TO the Lord. Do all Christians not sin just as those you spoke of? Yes, we do. All of us. Therefore, should Jesus set us aside and only focus on those very few who (for the sake of conversation) do not sin?

I don't think it works that way. How was I saved? Why was I saved when I was once a "king" of the gentiles? Why was I helped?

As followers of Christ we should emulate our Father. This does not mean to become unequally yoked with others but rather to be in the midst of them and to provide light. We need preachers and we need pastors. Two different approaches or missions yet sharing the same mission.

Please forgive me for not including reference to scripture but this question seems rather simple and straightforward. I am sure others will provide specific scripture for reference.

I will help a homeless "crackhead" on the street just as fast as I will help a brother or sister in my church. But that is what God has laid within my heart.

And that is... love, charity, hope and peace.

God bless!

Here are a few scriptures that really rattled me: Psalms 10:10, in context: Psalms 10, whole chapter.

* Leviticus 19:15, Amos 2:6-7, Amos 5:12, Amos 8:4, Habakkuk 3:14,

Scriptures about the poor: Exodus 22:25, Exodus 23:1-11, Leviticus 19:10, Leviticus 23:22, Deuteronomy 24:14,15,

Job 29:11-17, Job 30:25, Job 31:13-40, Job 34:19-28,

Leviticus 25:25-55, Deuteronomy 15:1-15,

1Samuel 2:7-8, Job 24, Matthew 19:21,

Psalms 9:18, Psalms 12:5, Psalms 14:6,

Galatians 2:10, Zechariah 7:10, Luke 14:12-14, may want to keep reading Luke 14,

Matthew 5:3, Luke 6:20,

Hopefully these are helpful

This is a very interesting point, DJ.

I think primary, our first concerns should be fore the household of faith, and of course, our own families. We are told if we do not provide for our own, we are worse than infidels!

There are some other times to give too, for Scripture tells us so. Romans 12:

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Having said that, what concerns me today is that many Christians go without, while 'the church' has become the 'welfare provider' for the world! I have done some studying and reading on the roots of the 'social gospel'; there are plenty of good articles about it, and I leave you to study all the good available articles and videos online. This is another gospel, and something that we should be aware of. We are not called to 'make this world a better place'; we are to honor and glorify Christ and preach His gospel.

Blessings!

You're not off base but as Christians we can't shun the sinner. It's contrary to everything Christ Jesus preached and died for.

Mark 2:17,: When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

If our communication and outreach is only to the righteous (the brethren)...who's going to win the lost? I understand your frustration as persecution is part of our daily walk. But, if I think the unsaved have no right to eternal life...then how was I born again. Someone saw me as religious but unsaved and they shared the Word with me to Salvation. I was profane, I was a drunkard, I abused drugs, I cursed the things of God when I was unsaved.

Ask yourself, the what is the great commission and what am I doing to win the lost by shutting them out?

Regarding James 2:15-16

The question is: who is our brother or sister? For years I thought Christians were supposed to be giving to EVERYONE in need. Now I think that Christian-charity is for believer to believer. Not believer to infidel.

Acts 2: (after the Holy Spirit of God came down to earth)

44 And ALL THAT BELIEVED were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

2 Corinthians 6:

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Why should I give aid to Christ deniers???? (you-know-who-I mean)

I'm real tired of hearing that old line, "Fine Christian you are!" because I won't support the wicked: Baal worshippers, pedophiles, homosexuals, women who kill their babies, lying & cheating politicians, drug users/runners/manufacturers, illegal invaders..... to name a few.

Am I off base or not?

2Corinthians 9:8,

Isaiah 1:17, Deuteronomy 26:12,

Matthew 25:31-46, Malachi 3:5, Matthew 7, Matthew 26, Mark 14, Mark 13:34, 1Timothy 5:8, Jeremiah 7:5,6,7, Deuteronomy 24:19,20,21, Jeremiah 22:3,

John 6:29, 1Corinthians 3:14, 1Corinthians 15:58, 1Corinthians 12, 1Corinthians 13, Exodus 22:22, Deuteronomy 24:17, Deuteronomy 16:14,

Romans 12:2,

* James 1:26-27, James 1:22-25, James 2:2-8, James 2:13,

* James 2:14-17,

Hopefully these are helpful in your study

Thank you Happy Resurrection Day to you :)

Hello Robert,

Ephesians 28-10

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and not of yourselves; it is a gift of God, not of works. lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Good works are all that we do that is of the Spirit of God, by whom we are a new creation in Christ Jesus to live, not to ourselves, but to God. In this we obedience we will walk by the Spirit in the fruit of the Spirit, through the power of the Spirit, under the guidance of the Spirit, in the way the Spirit ask us to speak, act, pray, and think.

Define good works. Happy Easter

If you will go on Google, Type:

James 2 Commentary

There are many commentators on this book. Most like Matthew Henry; but generally Bible Hub does a good job too.

The KJV website has Commentaries but you have to learn how to access it through the Search Box.

(It sits below what verse you put in the search box)

Wish Admin would put the Commentary on the Red Link List :)

why did James say this