John Chapter 1 Discussion Page 24

Hello Mark No I am not taking away from the sacrifice that Jesus made for us. The purpose of him coming was to save that which was lost. There had to be blood atonement for our sins. The Law was not cutting it anymore. Looking upon Jesus does not save you under this dispensation of Grace. You need to follow Acts 2 38 to be saved. This answer that I gave is just another way of showing why Jesus created a body for himself. He also endured temptations like we do. He also ate, drank and slept like we do as a human. But as God he never sleeps. When I talk about the oneness of Jesus Christ I am quoting directly from the Bible. Here is one scripture 1 John 5 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one . Notice the last 5 words, this let us know that there are no three beings in Heaven to worship there is only one being. Jesus Christ is both Lord and Christ. I use the word office, or position, or title, the meaning still holds truth. However, you want to describe it Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. Once again it is a mystery, but it is the truth. Perhaps the reason why people do not understand is because they really need to follow Acts 2 38.

so that men could look upon him and live takes away from the sacrifice, the reason men can live is because of the sinless sacrifice God provided. We cannot live by looking upon him we must accept the sacrifice God provided.

Why did God create his son? Was is to inhabit bodily form and show us his face and walk among us? He did not do that for Adam and Eve, They hid from his voice walking in the garden. Was it to provide a sinless sacrifice to reconcile his creation unto him? Who do we worship? Our creator? Our savior? Maybe our creator and our savior are working together as one unit along with the Holy Ghost all collectively for the same purpose?

Hello Sherrod This is why the scripture states in 1 Timothy 3 16 that it is a mystery. It does state that God was manifest in the flesh. Who came in the flesh? Who ascended up into heaven in Jerusalem? Who preached unto the Gentiles? The answer is Jesus Christ. I did not write these words. However, they are written in the Bible that we say we believe. In the end, it would behoove anyone who is not saved to get saved by following Acts 2 38 and continue living saved. So when the rapture takes place you can go up and meet the Lord in the air.

I understand that it is Jesus 's father whom we should fear the most, our creator, who can destroy body and soul at his discretion.

The way I understand is that God owes us nothing, He does not owe us or even needs to change his identity, We are his creation and it is up to us to believe or not to believe. I understand that God sent his son to be a sacrifice and did not even have to do that, but in his love and mercy he did send his son to be a sacrifice, and it is Jesus 's father whom we should worship, our creator.

If Jesus was God in Holy bodily form here on earth, Why would the scripture that No man could look upon Gods face and live not apply? What happened for us to be able to look upon God 's face and live? Did the Holy body hid Gods true identity? Did Gods Identity change so that we may look upon his face?

I agree with mark why would God contridict himself.why God send himself. To bring his people back to him. I sent his only begotten son to show us how much he loves us and wants us to repent and return to him john3 16For God so loved the world he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through him.18whoever BELIEVES in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF God 's one and only Son. Matthew 3 17 AS Soon as Jesus was Baptized he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the spirit of GOD Descending like a dove and lightning on him. 17 and a voice from heaven said This IS MY SON, WHOM I LOVE "WITH HIM I AM PLEASED.

Hello Mark No man could look upon God s face and live. They would fall down like dead men. God said so himself in Exodus 33 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face for there shall no man see me, and live. If I can say it like this, his is why God manifested himself in the persona of Jesus Christ so that men could look upon him and live. He made himself visible to man. He made himself to be clearly seen of man. The scripture in 1 Timothy 3 16 states And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I am trying to understand, maybe a better way to explain office would be to say position or authority,Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. He holds the position or authority of the son. He holds the position or authority of the Father. He holds the position or authority of the Holy Ghost. All three positions or authorities are held by the one being Jesus Christ. I will try to guess what you are saying. God and the Holy Ghost coexisted in heaven as one being, without bodily form I am guessing, Then God created a Holy fleshly body indwelt that body and called it his son Jesus, now all three are in one Holy fleshly body. Now, in Jesus dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily being God as the highest position or authority. then Jesus sacrifices himself and is resurrected returns to heaven as Jesus in his Holy bodily form being the highest position or authority as God and then sends back the Holy Ghost. Am I correct?

according to Merriam Webster the definition of manifest is able to be seen clearly shown or visible easy to understand or recognize according to Strong 's concordance I.to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way.

Jesus bears witness to his father, the one that sent him. John 4, 34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. John 6, 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 7, 16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. John 8, 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me for I proceeded forth and came from God neither came I of myself, but he sent me. John 8, 54 Jesus answered, if I honour myself, my honour is nothing it is my Father that honoureth me of whom ye say, that he is your God John 10, 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not the works that I do in my Father 's name, they bear witness of me. John 12, 49 for I have not spoken of myself but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Hello Mark and Ar I would like to say this to sum it up. Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. He holds the office of the son. He holds the office of the Father. He holds the office of the Holy Ghost. All three offices are held by the one being Jesus Christ. He is God manifested in the flesh. I have always maintained and stated this. 1 Timothy 3 16. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Who was conceived in the womb? Who was born of a woman? Who was born in the flesh? Who was received up into glory before the day of Pentecost? The answer is Jesus Christ. When the scripture states that it is a mystery, this means that to some it is a mystery. They do not understand that Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. "

The fathers name is not Jesus it is Jehovah Exodus 6 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

In the old testament, God manifested himself in very different ways. In the new testament I believe that God did manifest himself through his son Jesus, How he was manifested, I think was because Jesus never came in his own name and never testified of himself. Jesus always testified of his father in John 5 31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. To say that the fathers name is Jesus and to say that the son 's name is Jesus is to say that Jesus bore witness to Jesus and goes against John 5 31.

Hello Mark and Ar I hope that my comments to you both come out today or tomorrow. How the conversation with Ar started, I believe, we were discussing the baptism and how important it is to get the correct baptism. I stated that Jesus said it, Peter clarified it, and the Apostles carried it out. You are to baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. All three Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is one being. Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. I have never denied that a son was not born. I have never denied that the Holy Ghost did not overshadow Mary, or fell on the day of Pentecost, or anointed Jesus Christ when he was baptized. I have always maintained and stood firm that Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. This is acknowledging both his human side and his deity side. I have also given an example that I am a mother, daughter, and grandmother, but I am one being. The body that we are in is just merely vessels that our soul and spirit dwell. This is what Jesus Christ did. He created a vessel for himself to dwell in. In the end, I have always maintained that Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh.

Hello Mark I am not saying this, the Bible states that Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. The word manifest means that God came forth in the persona of the fleshly body of Jesus Christ. No, I believe that Jesus Christ the fleshly body was God 's son at time of conception because the Bible states that, Matthew 1 20. However, what I am saying and believe because the scripture states it in 1 Timothy 3 16, if I can say it like this, it is a mystery that the Omnipotent God can create a vessel call him his son and still have it written in the Bible that Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. If you further read in Matthew 1 21 it states that ...he shall save his people from their sins. All souls belong to God, Ezekiel 18 4 this is just another way of saying that Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. Since all souls belong to God and when Jesus Christ was conceived the scriptures stated that he shall save his people from their sins, this let us know that he is God. In the end, according to the trinity belief there are three separate beings in the Godhead to worship. However, the Bible states that there is only one being in the Godhead bodily. If I can say it like this and that person is Jesus Christ and he holds all three offices. I have always stated this fact that he holds all three offices but he is one being. Colossians 2 9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Hello Ar I do not know if they will print my response for you. However, I have not contradicted myself. I have always stated that there are no three beings in the godhead to worship. I have never denied that Jesus Christ is the son of God, the body flesh. However, I have stated that Jesus Christ is also God manifested in the flesh. I have stated that the Holy Ghost is the spirit of God and his name is Jesus Christ. I have stated and stand firmly on the fact that Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. I have stated and stand firmly on the fact that Jesus Christ does not dwell in the godhead with two other beings. There are no three separate beings in which to worship. I have always stated that Colossians 2 9 states "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. As a man Jesus Christ slept, but as God he never sleeps. As a human he nursed from the breast of Mary his mother. As God he made the milk that the breast produced. Please go back and read all of my post. The name of the Father is Jesus, the name of the son is Jesus this is the body or flesh and the name of the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ. These three are not separate but one being. 2 Corinthians 5 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Evangelist Chatauna Robinson, Thanks, I am understanding that you are saying that Jesus was born a human like you and I and God indwelt him thereby manifesting himself in the flesh and called the flesh his Son. Is my understanding correct? Is my understanding correct that you do not believe Jesus became God 's son at the time of conception of Mary when the Holy Ghost came upon her and the power of the Highest overshadowed her as in Luke 1,35 Therefore also that Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God? At the time conception, do you believe that there were 2 separate beings spirits involved in the process or are you saying that the Holy Ghost is the power of the highest? To me there was 2 separate actions that took place by two separate beings spirits 1 being the Holy Ghost that came upon her and 2 being the power of the Highest that overshadowed her. Thereby the result being that Jesus was born Holy begotten of Mary and in him dwelleth completed all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. I believe there are 3 separate beings spirits that is not a mystery to me. 1 Corinthians 14 27 explains many members of one body.

Evangelist Robinson, Does the Bible you read write the following verse in the chapters mentioned underneath? I quote A. John Ch 3 verse 16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. B. Mat Ch 3 vrs 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. C. Mat.26 verse 42 who was Jesus praying to? to Himself? If you believe what you are teaching, keep them to yourself. The Bible is very clear about Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. the Word is TRINITY. You have contradicted yourself so many times on these pages. but I think it will be best to ignore your remarks and that 's what I am going to do from now on.

Hello Mark I am saying is that the Omnipotent God that made the Heavens and the Earth, decided to come into this world as a human, robe himself in flesh and walked among us. He called the flesh that he came in son, because he created this vessel born of a woman. He begot this vessel with Mary. 1 Timothy 3 16 stated the following "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory . When you read this scripture very carefully, it states plainly that it is a mystery. God was manifest in the flesh. Who was in the flesh? Was it not Jesus Christ? So this is stating that Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. Then the last part of this scripture states that .received up into glory. Who was received up into glory in Jerusalem before the Holy Ghost fell in Acts 1 11? Was it not Jesus Christ? I believe that there is a son because the Bible says so you cannot deny this. However, I also believe that in this son, that is called Jesus Christ, dwelleth all the fullness of the godhead bodily. There are no three separate beings in the Godhead. There is only one, Colossians 2 9.

Evangelist Chatauna Robinson, Help me to be clear on what you are saying. My understanding of what you are saying is, That Jesus is not God 's son, That God did not have a son, instead God manifested himself in the flesh, returned to heaven and sent back the Holy Ghost. Is my understanding of what you are saying correct?

Hi Mabel, I d never heard of the diaglott before so I looked it up. The author s translation at least in English of that version in the right hand side opposite the Greek states In the beginning was the Logos capital L and the Logos was with God and the Logos was God. I looked up the diaglott and you say that the second word for God is in lower case. That doesn t appear to be the case. In both instances the word for God is in capitals. The placement of a in front of God making it a god was the word doesn t appear to actually be in the Greek. Interestingly if you look at the diaglott, the first word for God there is no a in front of the word God and yet the translation is virtually the same at the second word for God yet places an a in front of it. An a can make a big difference in the meaning of English translation and it actually doesn t appear to be there at least the way I see it. I notice that there appears to be a slightly different word for God in each Greek word in the diaglott. The Strong s Greek actually translates the word in both instances for God as Theos. When you say that it is the original Greek version, I m not so sure of the translation which may have been influenced by the fact that it was a Watch Tower publication and Jehovah s Witness doctrine. I notice that the diaglott itself was a Vatican translation. Also I ve never seen the original Greek manuscripts and the diaglott may not be the same. In any event the Jews clearly crucified Christ because of His claim to be God which is consistent with and the word was with God and the word was God. I tried to copy the diaglott to this post but it wouldn 't accept it.

Mabel, In addition to my comment that I already sent, in Exodus 20 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me . So let me ask you this question, why would God, who is a jealous God, create another God so that people can worship him? Exodus 34 14 For thou shalt worship no other god for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God And in Revelation 1 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. So I ask you who is to come? Jesus Christ who is God manifested in the flesh. He is both Lord and Christ. It is a mystery but he is God, 1 Timothy 3 16.

Hello Mabel You know the story of Jesus Christ being in the wilderness and being tempted by Satan? There was only two beings in that scenario, one was Jesus Christ and the other was Satan. Is this correct? Matthew 4 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God . Another witness to this is found in Luke 4 12. In both of these scriptures Jesus Christ is acknowledging his deity. If I can say it like this, Jesus was telling Satan you cannot tempt me I am God. If you read in John 14 8 9 to sum theses scriptures up, Philip ask Jesus Christ to shew us the Father, Jesus Christ out of his own mouth once again acknowledged that he was the Father. In the end, there is no three separate beings in which to worship there is only one. It is a mystery but it is only one being that holds all three positions and his name is Jesus Christ.

I believe in the Holy Trinity. God in three person. Remember Jesus told us that he is in the Father and the Father is in him. The Holy Spirit who is a part of the Trinity, was given to us as Jesus promised when he returned to heaven. The day when he descended is known as the day of Pentecost. His last commission to his disciples was "All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. "...

Hi Chatuana. I have another question. Rom 10 9 10 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. It seems that He raised Himself from the dead is that how you would interpret the scripture? Wouldn 't it better read and believe in your heart that He raised Himself from the dead rather than the use of the word God?

Hi Chatuana, Thanks for your replies. Could you please explain how your theology fits with the baptism of Jesus? the Father 's voice from heaven, the Holy Spirit descending upon Jesus and Jesus in the water. To me this all sounds like three separate actions. What do you think?

Hi Mabel thanks for your reply, Do you think Jesus Christ is like the devil? The devil was kicked out of heaven because he wanted the praise and worship directed to him. Jesus on a number of occasions was worshiped as God e.g. John 9 37 38 Jesus said to him. You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you. 38 Then he said, Lord, I believe! And he worshiped Him. " Jesus doesn 't correct him accepting the worship. How do you think the almighty God feels about that? Your argument while sounding impressive about pronouns is flawed in the light of other passages of scripture. If Jesus was sinless as the bible says if He accepted the worship and wasn 't God then He was a liar. Which He isn 't.

I am sorry that the pasted Greek verses were not possible to be printed. May be it could have been more explainable .