John Chapter 20 Discussion Page 2

crucifixion is a horrific way to be tortured to death...they nail you in a ' T ' POSITION... and stand you up, when the accused cant hold himself, up he sag's down and his arms are above his head.. this becomes the torture because the Ribs rub against the lungs building up fluid an slowly drowning the accused...and from the fear they can come down they break-the legs to hurry up the process causing the accused not to be able to rise up to catch a breath......

John 19:33

But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

John 19:32

Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.

John 19:31

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

>>When the Romans finally wanted their crucified victims to die, they broke the prisoner's legs so they could no longer push themselves up and all the body weight would be hanging by the arms.

Crucifixion may be defined as a method of execution by which a person is hanged, usually by their arms, from a cross or similar structure until dead. ... The postulated causes of death include cardiovascular, respiratory, metabolic, and psychological pathology.

The Crucifixion of Jesus guaranteed a horrific, slow, painful death. As the strength of the muscles of Jesus' lower limbs tired, the weight of His body had to be transferred to His wrists, His arms, and His shoulders. Within a few minutes of being placed on the Cross, Jesus' shoulders were dislocated.

Hello Jane. The legs of crucified criminals were often broken so as to speed up death. As you know, nails that were pierced into the feet plus a possible peg under the feet, helped to prop the body up. If this wasn't the case then the criminal wouldn't be able to breathe for very long - his lungs wouldn't expand. So their legs were broken which meant their lungs couldn't do their job.

However when the soldiers came to Jesus, they found that He had already died (Jesus consciously released His Spirit), so His legs were not broken. And this was in fulfilment of the Scripture, Psalm 34:20.

Have studied the Bible for a long time. Why did they break the legs of the robbers?

Amen, Brother Adam.

Isaiah 9:6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace.

Revelation 1:8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come,( THE ALMIGHTY. )

Adam,

Very well said, Amen!

One God, consisting of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All co-equal, all co-eternal!

Thank you for helping stand up to defend Jesus. I will stand up to defend Jesus until the day I die. The gospel is simple and scripture is simple to understand and its truth must be shared to squash the lies.

John 1:14-15: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me."

This describes Jesus being the Word.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

This says the Word (Jesus) was God.

Genesis 1:26 "Let US make" (plural).

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us".

God the father is referred to as God. I think most understand this. God also can refer to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I think most Bible readers understand this too. Jesus became a man and prayed to God, His Father. While being man he was still God. This does not mean He was his Father.

So, the human argument ignores scripture and claims Jesus wasn't ever God, because they can't humanly imagine Jesus talking to himself. This is a strawman argument, because no one believes Jesus was praying to himself.

The human argument against Jesus being part of the God head is akin to the skit of "Who's on first." Imagine an orange consisting of skin, pulp, and seeds like the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as described in 1 JOHN 5:7. Someone claims "the skin isn't part of the orange, because it's different than the seeds. Because it's impossible for the seeds to be the same as the skin, so it must not be an orange! Only one of the 3 can be an orange, so the other parts must not be part of the orange."

I also think there's an underlying spiritual battle occurring here. One must ask why someone is so motivated to undermine and discredit Jesus's divinity? Who would be behind such a goal? We know the answer. Tread carefully, stay in the Bible, and pray deeply about this before attacking Jesus on a website of Jesus followers.

Matthew 18:6, Matthew 12:36-37

D W L: John 3:17 God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.-- Notice it didn't say that God sent God, I can't believe God is trying to fool us.

Correct, It does say God "Is The Father, sending HIS SON." However, we Cannot Make a Correct Conclusion on ONLY one verse, When God Teaches "ALL of Scripture Is PROFITABLE for doctrine" ( 2 Timothy 3:16), Correct? Thus, we Also Check This Evidence:

Heb 1:4 Being MADE SO MUCH BETTER than the angels, as HE hath by inheritance obtained a MORE EXCELLENT NAME than they.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, THOU ARE MY SON, this day have I begotten THEE? And again, I will be to HIM A Father, and HE SHALL BE TO ME A SON?

Heb 1:6 And again, when He Bringeth in The Firstbegotten into the world, He Saith, And let ALL the angels of God WORSHIP HIM.

Heb 1:7 And of the angels He Saith, Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire.

Heb 1:8 But Unto THE SON He Saith, THY Throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. = Notice IT DOES SAY:

"GOD, The SON!" AND "ALL the angels of God WORSHIP HIM!!" = Plain And CLEAR!!

Conclusion: No, God is not trying to "fool us" WHEN we "study ALL Scripture!" Amen?

Praise HIM Now And ForEverMore! Amen?

Much More Important Evidence Found In this Discussion: Link

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified!

D W L , yes , it's that simple . Thank you thank you thank you , much love in Christ .

The Father, and Son Jesus, and the spirit of God (Holy Ghost)

John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.-- Notice it didn't say that God sent God, I can't believe God is trying to fool us.

Isaiah 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

Aren't we glad that we have this good simple gospel that even a fool shall not err therein.

Phyllis,

Our English bibles tell us in John 20:22, "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"

But the literal translation of Verse 22 from the Greek text for the term "He breathed on them," it says literally "He breathed in." That is it! "He breathed in and said to them." What does that mean that He breathed in?

Some people point out the fact that the word for breathe is found in two places in the Old Testament, one is in Genesis 2:7, where the Lord literally breathed into the face of Adam and he became a living soul. And then in Ezekiel 37:9, where he tells Ezekiel to go out and prophecy, and the wind comes and blows on the dead bones and they become alive.

But the difference between this instance in John 20:22 and the two places I just mentioned is that in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, in Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9 it has what is called the preposition EIS with the accusative.

It says God breathed into Adam. The wind and breath of God breathed into the dead bones. There is no prepositional phrase here in John 20:22. It is just the word breathed in.

God breathed in, He took a breath inward, and He said Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

But notice that it does not say that they received the Holy Spirit, because this text is where many get the "two experiences" where here they were saved, and in Acts Chapter 2, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a "second experience" that every Christian needs. The problem here is that Jesus gave them the command, receive the Holy Ghost. It doesn't say they received Him!

John 20

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Breath is often a picture of the Spirit (in fact, the Hebrew word for Spirit is also the word for breath), so Jesus"breathed"on the men while He was standing with them in His physical presenceto indicate what He was preparing to do later by theSpirit.Therefore, Jesus was not imparting theSpirit tothem in John 20 in any real sense. He was promising to do so later at Pentecost.

We can be anointed for tasks unto the Lord. As in Matthew 26:37-46. The Body of Christ is Jesus's feet, his hands, his mouth, his Words. His heat is MERCY.

I oft compare evangelizing to swimming. It's almost 4th of July :) Some people walk in up to their ankles, not sure they have Jesus with them. Some get in up to the knees boldly, but don't want to get their clothes wet. Then people like me, jump in the deep, get soaked and splash Jesus on everybody. When He anoints you, He's working through you. If you remember how you came to believe; you know enough to tell someone else.

What is the significance of CHrist breathing on his disciples?

I like it.

Mary don't you weep because...

Hello Lashonda,

Happy Easter and welcome to the site.

I really enjoy studying gods word i have no questions at this present time

One more quote from the Bible doctrine book in the same vein:

"One should not endeavor to transpose Old Testament details into the New in a way that undermines or infringes on the tenor of the gospel.

Then again, the liberty of the New Testament should not be considered to minimize the holiness of God as set forth in the Old. Jesus did not destroy the validity of the Old Testament; He fulfilled it ( Matthew 5:17). There must be a balanced spiritual understanding of the relationship of the two testaments."

That the four corners of our hearts have equal amounts of the breath of God.

Another day another meditation: Thinking of the Holy Bible and the law and the Holy Ghost, I came across this quote that a few selected brethren in the Church of God were led to write within a book on Bible doctrines.

"Tenor is the harmony of the whole, the intent and purpose of something written or spoken. The Hebrew word from which tenor is translated gives a hint of action: "to puff: scatter into corners" (Strong's concordance). In other words, even under Moses's Law, it took the breath of God, or tenor, to scatter the Lord's dictates into the corners of the hearts of men.

It was this tenor that finally brought Saul (the unconverted Paul) to see his heart's need and pointed him to Christ

( Romans 7). Saul was "blameless" ( Philippians 3:6) concerning the statute law. But his conscience became sin-ridden when the breath of God scattered the real intent of the law into the corners of his heart. Such is the power of the law under the Holy Spirit's unction."

How very true, Bendito. As I re-read the earlier verses, the thought came to me: would a non-believer have read that verse in the same manner & with the same sensation as a believer does? Very likely, No. It would just be an historical account of the risen Jesus & verse 16 would have been glossed over.

To us who have experienced the joy of salvation, we instantly enter into the same state as Mary was in: of utter joy in seeing her beloved again, risen from the grave, death having no hold on Him. And we see & experience the risen Christ each day, every moment of the day, in all His Glory & Beauty. All praise be to Him for going to the cross for us & to the Eternal loving Father Who sent Him for our sakes.

So simply and tenderly this verse reads. Yet every time I see it I am thrilled. Tears come to my eyes, and the Glory bursts forth like the morning sun! HE'S ALIVE!

Palm Sunday, the Passover, crucifixion, Feast of Unleavened Bread, and Resurrection day (Feast of First Fruits) all are coming soon. Jesus fulfilled the old, and confirmed the new. Jesus fulfilled the Passover, the blood of the new testament shed for many. The Feast of Unleavened Bread, Jesus' sinless life, leaven is a symbol of sin in the Bible, making Him the perfect sacrifice for our sins. First Fruits, Jesus is the firstfruits of them that slept.

The Tamid sacrifice was the beginning and the ending of the daily worship, a Perpetual Sacrifice the first and the last. It was done every day but on the day of the crucifixion, it is evident the timing was so precise it must have been for that day. Exodus 29:38-42

Early the morning of Passover the first hour Jesus was taken to Pilate to be judged where no fault was found in Him. At the exact time, the priest tied the Tamid lamb to the altar and inspected it to make sure there were no blemishes. Jesus was nailed to the cross the third hour, 9 AM. The priest slaughtered the lamb and placed it on the fire as the first sacrifice of the day on the third hour, 9 AM, the first hour of prayer. The lamb burns on the fire all day, a continual burnt sacrifice. All the people's sin sacrifices are placed on top of the wood where the first lamb is burning.

At the six-hour (noon) the priest brings the second lamb, ties it to the altar, and inspects it for blemishes and darkness fell over the land until the ninth hour 3 PM. The ninth hour 3 PM the last Tamid lamb was sacrificed and placed on the altar on top of all the sacrifices that day ending the daily sacrifices, the second hour of prayer; also called the hour of confession. At the same time the darkness lifted, Jesus gave up the ghost, earthquake, the veil of the temple rent, many bodies of the saints which slept arose and appeared to many and at this time they were sacrificing the Passover lambs. Hebrews 10:5-12

May God bless us,Ron

Hi Jesse,

You are not causing any confusion at all. To me anyway. As we should share these things of the Scriptures to help broaden each other. I very much enjoy conversing with others in the Lord.

That is very interesting about the "eis" following the G1720 word. You are correct as I looked over the Septuagint and saw the differences from those other two verses, with G1720, to John 20:22.

Although Jesus had not ascended into Heaven yet, as you correctly stated, He had raised up from the dead and was in His glorified body at this point. In my thought, in that He just "breathed in" before He spake seems of no avail or reason to me to have stated that.

With the Thayers and Strongs definition of the word G1720 stating "to blow or breathe upon" and "to blow at or on". As I am in no way a scholar in the Greek language.

Also as that word, G1720, only being used twice in the entire Septuagint(Greek OT), in the two verses you stated, and only once in the entire Textus Receptus(Greek NT) in John 20:22.

My belief is that the Lord did breathe the Holy Ghost at His disciples at that point. Although as I stated before only God, and the Lord, knows for sure about this. Your belief is just as good as mine. That is very good that you picked up on that little difference.

As this topic really is not that important. Exactly when the Lords disciples received the Holy Ghost.

Thank you for all your information and time Jesse. Always a pleasure.

God Bless.

Hello Richard,

Here is what brings me to my conclusion:

Genesis 2:7 from the Septuagint translated into English says, "and the God molded man from the dust of the land and (breathed into) his face the breath of life and man became into a living soul."

Ezekiel 37:9 from the Greek Septuagint says, "and He said to me "Prophesy son of man, prophesy over the Spirit and tell the Spirit "Thus says The Lord, come out of the four spirits and (breathe into) these dead let them live!"

The prepositional phrase EIS is used in both Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9.

There is a specific action taking place in both those verses. The preposition EIS is used with the accusative case in both Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9. What that means to me is that it points to the object of verbal action. When I see the prepositional phrase EIS with the accusative, I believe it should be translated by using terms such as into, unto, to, toward, etc. A specific action.

But in John 20:22, the prepositional phrase EIS is not used in that verse in the Textus Receptus. That is why I don't believe the English translation is correct when it says He breathed on them. There's nothing in the Greek text to indicate that action was taken. It should read He breathed in. I see it as Jesus taking a deep breath before saying receive ye the Holy Ghost.

But John 20:22 does not tell us that they received the Holy Ghost.

I do agree that the Holy Spirit fell on many in Acts Chapter 2. But I don't see any indication that anyone had received the Holy Spirit before Christ's ascension into heaven. That is what I was getting at. I believe that salvation takes place once God's Spirit (Holy Spirit) enters into a person, not before.

What I was referring to was that while Jesus was here on this earth, I don't believe anyone had received the Holy Spirit yet. In Acts Chapter 2, yes! This would have been after Christ ascended into heaven.

I hope that I am not causing any confusion here.

Thank you for the response!

Hello Jesse,

As I understand you stating that the true experience, receiving the Holy Ghost, had not happened yet as we see in Acts 2 with the Holy Ghost coming upon them in Jerusalem.

Although I must ask where you have heard "He breathed on them" literally says "He breathed in"? The translation from the Greek is quite accurate. As the Greek word "emphusao" means "to blow or breath upon or to blow at".

I myself believe that is when they did receive the Holy Ghost personally from the Lord. In Acts 2 it states "they were all filled with the Holy Ghost". Having that amazing experience. Not stating that is where they received it. I believe that is the first place that they felt or experienced the power of the Holy Ghost. In my understanding.

I hope my statement only brings us together. As only God knows exactly when the Holy Ghost entered them.

God Bless.

There's a scripture that says the Holy Spirit, is the Spirit of Christ.

You can type that in this websites Search Box (as you enter the site. you'll see it

The literal translation of John 20:22 for the term "He breathed on them," it says literally "He breathed in." That is it! "He breathed in and said to them."

What does that mean that He breathed in?

Some point out the fact that the word for breathe is found in two places in the Old Testament, one is in Genesis 2:7, where the Lord literally breathed into the face of Adam and he became a living soul.



And then in Ezekiel 37:9, where he tells Ezekiel to go out and prophecy, and the wind comes and blows on the dead bones and they become alive.



But the difference between this instance and the two places I just mentioned is that in the Septuagint, in Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9 it has what is called the preposition EIS with the accusative.



God breathed into Adam. The wind and breath of God breathed into the dead bones. There is no prepositional phrase here in John 20:22. It is just the word breathed in.

What is interesting is that it does not say that they received the Holy Spirit.

This text is where some get the "two experiences" where here they were saved, and in Acts Chapter 2, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a "second experience" that every Christian needs.

The problem here is that Jesus gave them the command, receive the Holy Ghost. It doesn't say they received Him!

I guess my answer to your question would be that when Jesus said this, He breathed in, like to expand His chest, and He says unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

I hope this was not a private conversation. If so, please accept my apology.

It has been a good day. Jesus speaks to me and you.

John 21:14-17

14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon Peter, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he saith unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things, thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him. Feed my sheep.

Hey Rev. John This may be incorrect, but was it the promise of the Comforter that the world could not receive, in John 14:16-17 sent from the Father in Jesus' name? Ron, If wrong that is a beautiful question I will Keep studying. Understand now why you are a Professor.