John Chapter 3 Discussion Page 7

Wally,

I agree that the bible uses the word sleep or sleepeth as a term for death. It is the physical body that is put in the grave and the physical body lying there gives the appearance of a person sleeping. We know that Lazarus was dead for a few days and Jesus said he was sleeping. So yes, sleep does refer to death, physical death.

However, there is a living spirit/soul in everyone that departs the physical body upon death. The physical body goes into the grave but the soul departs immediately.

You mention that "The Bible clearly states that there will be those who are thrown into the Lake of Fire which is symbolic of total, complete, elimination, never to be seen again."

I say those who are cast into the Lake of Fire are those who were not part of the first resurrection. When you say elimination, do you mean the same as annihilation? My understanding is that those who are cast into the lake of fire will neither be eliminated nor annihilated, but will suffer for eternity.

I do believe that when a believer dies (Physical death) their soul immediately is in the presence of the Lord. You say that a person "does not go directly to Heaven or Hell, nor anywhere for that matter, but the grave? But then add that the grave is Hell." That sounds contradicting. If they don't go to Heaven or Hell, but you say the grave is Hell, where do they go?

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Where's the Lord? Jesus dying on the cross told the man on the cross next to Him that today you will be with me in paradise. That man died. Where did he go? Paradise doesn't sound much like Hell to me.

Your advice on reading the Holy Bible is great advice. It's how we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. As far as a 501C3 preacher goes, I do not know what that is? I do know that there are some great pastors/bible teachers out there. But, as the Bereans did, we are to search the scriptures to see if those things line up!

Not sure about Lazarus being dead nor the rich man nor Father Abraham in the story told by the Son of God. There was complete separation between Lazarus in the comfort of the bosom of Abraham and the rich man. We also know the rich man was of thirst and willing for any possible chance of recovery. If no recovery was possible at least a warning to his brethren who thought they understood their place in Abraham like he did when he was alive in the flesh. The gulf between the eternal blessing upon Lazarus and the eternal separation thereof of the rich man is the difference between heaven and hell. The body (flesh) of Jesus was crucified unto death for us if we can be that one whom the dogs licked the sores of by the gate.

Hi Wally58,

So it's seeming that you know everything about after this life in your post? What would you say to all the people who have had NDE experiences and have been dead. Experiencing things like Jesus Christ, a Heavenly place, others who were deceased, a Hell like place of darkness, out of body experiences, etc? Miracles coming back to life. Some of these people being atheist and this is what converted them to the Lord. I have met one personally myself. Would you just call them all liars?

What would you say to me about all my experiences that most in this world, probably you as well, probably would not believe? After giving my life to Jesus Christ.

So you do not believe in the resurrection of Christ?

God makes the rules not men and no preacher taught me anything. The Holy Ghost is my teacher.

God Bless.

Hi Wally58 ,thankyou soo much for that ,simple truth !

When you are dead, you are, for lack of better words, ASLEEP! You do not go directly to Heaven or Hell, nor anywhere for that matter, but the grave - which is Hell. Per the Strong's Concordance, Hell = Sheol, covered pit or hole in the ground - grave. So, in effect, we ALL go to HELL in death. When dead, you see nothing, know nothing, hear nothing, think nothing, period. You are just waiting for Christ to return and resurrect you from the dead state. If you are not raised, then perhaps that is eternal separation from YAHWEH GOD, which might be called Hell or damnation in a general sense. The Bible clearly states that there will be those who are thrown into the "Lake of Fire" which is symbolic of total, complete, elimination, never to be seen again. Going to heaven after death was not mentioned in the Old Testament, but "Sleeping with My Fathers" was several times, such as old Jacob Israel said to Joseph. Heaven as a place of after-death-living was a fairly recent skewing of Biblical text. Christ Yahshua told us Himself that "No man but the one standing before you has been to Heaven" or words to that effect. Heaven is another dimension that we are not privy to. And remember, Christ is COMING TO EARTH, not us going to Him in Heaven. Remember, several of the myths of going to Heaven are taken from Christ's Parables such as the Rich Man and Lazarus. Christ spoke of the Rich man being across a gulf which was purely symbolic. Parables were ONLY for illustrating a point and were NOT to be taken literally. There is no gulf where you go to rest and where you can see folks in Heaven and they can see you as well. Christ Himself did not simply "morph" from one state to another after dying on the cross. He was DEAD AS A DOORNAIL and in Sheol for 3 days and nights. He did not go visiting folks in a mythical Hell nor go anywhere for that matter. Otherwise, he did not actually die and therefore, did not cleanse you of your sins. Stop listening to your 501C3 preacher and read the HB

If you believe in God and Jesus is your Lord and Savior, and have been baptized you will receive the Holy Spirit. But if you believe in God and Jesus is your Lord and Savior, and have not been baptized will you still go to Heaven be not receive the Holy Sprit while your alive?

On both accounts Also Believe that Jesus is God's son who was sent as a sacrifice.

Thank you, Hope you have a Blessed Palm Sunday 2021

John 3:13: This chapter finds Jesus talking with Nicodemus about heavenly/spiritual things, which sadly, Nicodemus was ignorant of. He asks in verse 9, "How can these things be?", or in other words, 'Jesus, you're telling me strange things which I find impossible to accept & believe in'. So Jesus goes on to tell him that it's not only heavenly things but also earthly things that he doesn't understand. Then verse 13 refers to Jesus being the only one that is qualified to bring 'that heavenly light' to people as He was the one to come down from Heaven. And none else filled this position or was qualified, as not even Elijah or Enoch or even the OT saints have gone into Heaven & come back to Earth to reveal such Divine insights.

Psalm 2:7: This is one of many Messianic Psalms which have a reference to the coming Messiah (see also Psalms 8, 16, 22, 34, 35, 40, etc.). David would not have had full knowledge of what God had put on his heart to write, except that God did have a plan, that through David there would be in the future an everlasting kingdom ( 2 Samuel 7:12,13). Whether David felt there was some reference to him in Psalm 2:7, is not known, but he knew ultimately that these words did not apply only to Him but to Another, as we read the whole Psalm. Even the NT writers referred to it: Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5, Hebrews 5:5, indicating that they too saw Psalm 2:7 as ultimately referring to the Messiah. So, you're correct that it is God speaking to (or, inspiring) David to write the Psalm, but many Psalms & other OT writings are prophetical pointing to Jesus, as even Jesus Himself looked back at those prophecies that spoke of Him & urged others to do so ( John 5:39).

Barry,

"The Bible is a unique collection of writings. In fact, there is nothing like it in all the world. In a period of over fifteen hundred years, and written in three distinct languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek) on three separate continents (Africa, Asia, and Europe), at least forty human writers from vastly differing fields, perspectives, and backgrounds wrote under the direction of the Holy Spirit in putting together the sixty-six books of the Bible.

The people who wrote the Bible were shepherds, fishermen, and military men. There were kings, a prime minister, and a royal cupbearer. There was even a doctor, a tax collector, and a tentmaker among so many other people from different walks of life. They wrote in a number of unusual circumstances, as varied as being in a prison or a palace." CARM

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2Pe 1:20-21

Who wrote the Bible

The worlds referred to in Heb 1:2 means [ahee-ohn; a particular age or period or interval] so it may not mean other worlds besides our world since Adam and Eve, but having said that, Luke 15:4 speaks of a man having a hundred sheep and losing one, leaving the 99 to look for the one. This means what we all know it to mean; that Jesus will do anything to save all his children, this could also mean that God made other worlds/dispensations before Adam and Eve and we are the 1 lost sheep that needs saving. I haven't done much research into it but knowing God-with Him all things are possible, so its entirely conceivable.

Revelation 9 speaks of Abaddon which comes out of the bottomless pit. This Abaddon lived before Adam and ruled a prehistoric world made up of hybrid beasts. The locusts are a combination of man and beast. The creatures that sinned in the prehistoric age were banished to the bottomless pit.

Lucifer fell by looking on the sin of these prehistoric creatures. Apparently lucifer was tasked to cover the sin of these prehistoric creatures with his wings but he disobeyed God and looked and was filled with pride.

There's also mention in Is 34:14 which speaks of hybrid beasts like the Satyr which means [he-goat, faun, devil, hairy, kid, rough]

The 'worlds' are the 'worlds of the Universe', i.e. the planets, stars, asteroids, etc. And Jesus was involved in their creation (also see Colossians 1:15-17).

Hebrews 1:2

What other worlds did God create?

Dianne,

The honor and respect deserved, is conditional upon those leaders meeting the qualifications of "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil." Too many leaders, regardless of whether in the church or government, embrace evil. And while the office they hold by the power of men deserves respect, all respect deserved and power over believers is dependent on what their character shows us. God defines for us those he has empowered to rule our affairs. Believers are not to yield to evil, but instead, resist even unto death of the body.

Chris, " What sort of Pastor must he be as described in verse 4?" I believe the position could be either a believer or an unbeliever, in the latter case, a hireling. "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." Proverbs 21:1

So you understand Romans 13:1-7 to apply to the authority within the Church? It would be interesting to read other views on this. I've re-read the passage now & just can't fit our Church leaders into that narrative. What sort of Pastor must he be as described in verse 4?

in Romans 13 we give honor and respect to those in authority in the church I.E. Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Teacher. In timothy we pray for leaders of our country or community big difference

Thank you for your reply Dianne. I was thinking that was the verse you were pertaining to. As Isaiah 40:22 and Job 26:10 use the same Hebrew word spoken "chuwg". Interesting it has two different Strongs numbers although the same exact word. Meaning to encircle or circle.

As I really don't want to get into this much as I know my brothers and sisters on here may not agree with me and I do not wish to raise quarrel. Although I will just state this. In Isaiah 22:18 he states "ball". The Hebrew word pronounced "duwr". Meaning ball/circle. Which I would think would pertain more to a sphere shape than "chuwg". Isaiah knew the difference between a circle and a ball and so did the writers of the KJV Bible.

Again, as I could go on I will not because the shape of the earth is not the important thing. Jesus Christ our Lord is. Even though it may help people turn toward God I do not want to make division here between my brothers and sisters in Christ.

God Bless.

One of the main Scriptures on inter-racial marriages is in Deuteronomy chapter 7, where Israel was forbidden to take wives from the heathen nations around them. And this was primarily because Israel was "a holy people unto the Lord" & such a union would guarantee that Israel's heart would be turned from following the true God. A particularly nasty example was seen in King Solomon in 1 Kings 11:1-13, where a once wise King erred greatly in this matter & displayed much foolishness.

Otherwise, the Bible says or infers nothing about inter-racial marriages for Christians, except that we should have such a close union (whether in marriage or business) only with other believers: 1 Corinthians 7:39; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.

On the 'flat Earth', I have no further comment than already given in the past, on such a proposition.

Richard Isaiah 40:22, job 26:10 the Hebrew word compassed meaning circle,

Hello Dianne,

Where does the Bible call the earth a sphere? Thank you.

Cody the bible calls the earth a sphere and according to Gods Word there is nothing wrong with interracial marriages.

To Fred Scanlan

Consider yourself truly blessed brother, God has a calling for you, I suggest that you find out - extremely important. What happened to me something different, but similar in some sense. I was successful in my marriage, family, career and financially. But when I retired in 2008 to enjoy it all with my wife, everything went wrong - my wife of 38 years was diagnosed with terminal cancer, went through surgery, chemotherapy, so I became a full time caregiver, neglected my real estate investment and stocks, financial crisis took a toll, lost quite a bit, 09/09/09 lost my wife, a very painful experience. One day I was reading my Bible, God open my eyes - I built my house in the sand, not on the Rock. So I ask God questions on what to do - I said God you gave me the wrong tools (degrees, real estate broker, others) training by men which focus on making $$$ manna, God revealed things via dreams - I can't serve/love God and manna $$$ at the same time. So give me the right tools and train me.

God heard and answered my questions, now God's will "Master Plan" is what I have, @ 78 years old December 2, 2020 I became sick - COVID-19 was in the hospital 6 days, God saved me, it took a month to fully recover, soon 79 on 2/11 - God has blessed me with so much, that I am able to help small business owners solve their COVID-19 problems - and I don't charge for my services, I leave everything to God, get paid as a byproduct of what I do, God freed me from the snares of manna.

Fred, yours is waiting, pursue it brother.

When Paul was struck down on the road to Damascus, He received the powerful mercy of God. This has happened to me, all my sins were ever before me, literally making me fall down before Him! I could not resist Him. So overwhelming power! Now , I have been given, what an apostle would need or ask for! What lies ahead I do not know, as always, waiting on Him!

Fred I'm totally convinced that when someone believes Romans 10:9+10 they get delivered.

God will make a way. He is merciful, and can do all things, we think impossible. My words , my faith like all believers will convince those who do not believe , of his salvation. This is why you and I must proclaim the name of Jesus! This is the reason we believe in Him. We are not saved by the letter of the law. We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Just believe on his name!

To Fred and Joanne we will never stop private interpretation 2 Peter 1:20+21 because people choose to believe what they have been taught right or wrong or what they think it means, they aren't shown the bible is an eastern book and has eastern culture and thought in it or as long as it agrees with them their fine. All these things are an uphill battle that the apostle Paul new well most of his followers got to the point where they no longer believed he was a man called of God and walked away.

No everything in balance.

According to the church. All things that come out of it! There are way, way, too many interpretations. Since we live in a free nation we will be subject unto these . However ,Prior to the fall of Rome, mediately before and after, the word became the truest and most convincing. The Holy Spirit will always do the the work , we are remiss too do! God is merciful, and will finish the work that needs to be done! His ways are past understanding. Pray, I say Pray, that His will be done! We have a beautiful new church whos doors are closed? When can I see IT!

There will be harmony! This is why we have the old testament! The same spirit of forgiveness found in the blood of Christ. The hope found in the promises to Abraham, to Isaac, Jacob, Are and will be the same hopes that will live in the heart and soul of GODS people! Heaven and earth ,what else would you say about it!

Is it a sin to drink?

Through focus and prayer, you can obtain understanding. Ask God to help you understand.