Luke Chapter 12 Discussion Page 2

Larry, I've also thought over this dilemma as well over the years, and the only answer I can offer is that in fact we all suffer in one form or another. I know you specifically mentioned physical pain & suffering & that is one part of the whole. Sometimes, emotional pain & mental anguish can come under the same umbrella of physical suffering that each one faces in life. And their severity can be as harsh & painful as the physical.

You may be thinking of a special instance of some going through the mill with pain while others appear to be free from it. As you may agree, since we are all sinners & suffer the effects of it (whether in the physical, spiritual, emotional or mental spheres), I don't believe that anyone can sail through this life without pain in some form. It is true that some do suffer far more than others, but all do suffer & then finally have pain's last stab at us at the cessation of this life.

The Psalmist, Asaph, in Psalm 73 spoke of a similar dilemma, "Why do the wicked go through life without pain (v 5), speak against God (vv 9, 11) & live in prosperity (v 12)?" His answer: "Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction. How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors." (vv 18, 19). He saw their end (their eternal suffering) as far worse as opposed to those (who suffer in this life) but have their trust in the Lord. So pain experienced in life to the Psalmist was transitory - the pain of being estranged from God after death is eternal.

it is a reminder to us that when we do bad things or sin against the Lord, we will not alone suffer the consequence of our actions, people who are close to us will also suffer. That is the penalty of our sin.

The person who did the sin will not suffer alone, but also the people around him will suffer.

It is to remind a person the weight of his sin and for him to think carefully of the action he will do.

why do some people go through physical pain and suffering and some don't

Hello Chris,

My thanks for your kindness, and for your well thought-out reply. I don't have much to add... I think it's as you said - at the end of the day, it is between each person and God. I don't think we can know if another person is "really saved" while we are in this temporary body. Even if we use the only measure, God's Word, can we know the true state of a person's heart?

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't give God's Word to everyone as we have opportunity. God told us to exhort, edify, and encourage one another daily( 2 Timothy 4:2, Hebrews 3:13, Hebrews 10:25). I believe these things are all part of fighting the good fight of faith.

God bless, my friend.

To ADAM

We wrote earlier:

He (Christ) also informed them that they were not of God ( John 8:43-47). Remember now that they truly thought that they knew God and that they worshipped him in truth, but when He dwelt amongst them they crucified Him, as they could not believe His message of repentance ( 1 Corinthians 2:14) and did not like it that He convinced them that they were sinners and that they lived under the power of sin (Satan).

The messages we communicate, which are according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( John 14:17), judges you and other people on this website in the same way.

Christ came into this world for three reasons ( John 16:8-11).

To reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

- Of sin, because they believe not on me;

- Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

- Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

The gospel, which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ ( Gal. 1:11,12).

It is only by revelation of God that people will come to know the true Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1), and only then will you be able to overcome the spirit of this world ( 1 John 5:4; Rev. 3:21) and learn what 'True Repentance' means, and how this whole world has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9) and that you follow after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Rev. 12:9). It should also be remembered that it is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

LUKE 15:10. LIKEWISE, I SAY UNTO YOU, THERE IS JOY IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ANGELS OF GOD OVER ONE SINNER THAT REPENTETH.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

Hello again,

I did try to answer your questions with scripture.

Regarding Peter, I've asked the same question before. The Holy Spirit was not yet given to mankind, and he was not born again when he denied Christ.

The time is rapidly approaching when every Christian will be tempted to deny Christ before people, in order save their temporary lives. Most "Christians" will deny Him, erroneously and fatally thinking "Oh, God will forgive me." No, He won't. He says he won't forgive you right here: "But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God." Luke 12:9

If you will remember anything from our conversation, please remember these words of Jesus.

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it." Mark 8:35

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

To FRED SCANLAN

The Word of God is God ( John 1:1), which the natural man is not able to understand ( Cor. 2:14). For that reason our message remains the same: Ye. must repent.

Only through 'True Repentance' will God be able to reveal Himself, and adopt you as His sons and daughters ( Rom. 8:15,23; 2 Cor.6:18; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5; Hebr. 12:5; 1 John 3:1).

The word 'Repent' means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9), and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( John 14:17).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), It is only by revelation of God that you will come to know Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1). It is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

To FRED SCANLAN

Please remember that the sons of God have come for the pulling down of this world's 'Strongholds', religion being the strongest of them all ( 2 Cor. 10:4; Luke 11:21-23).

When it comes to the Medical Profession, please know that the believers live by faith, as the true and living God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob is their guide in all things. Remember how God took care of a host of 2m people for forty years. He fed them and provided them with water and other essentials. Even their shoes and garments didn't wear out. Also remember that out of the original group that crossed the Red Sea only Joshua & Caleb crossed the Jordan River. All the rest died in the wilderness, while only the new generation crossed the Jordan.

Rather than speaking from personal experience, we believe that the most effective way to be taught and to come to the understanding of 'The Chastening of the Lord' is by the Word of God itself

CHASTENING

Deut. 8:5

Job 5:17-19; 6:1-10; 23:10; 33:19

Psalms 6:1-10; 17:3; 30:1-12; 38:1-21; 94:12-14; 102:1-28; 116:1-19; 119:7,67,71

Proverbs 3:11

Isaiah 26:16

1 Cor. 11:32

Hebrews 12:5,6

James 1:12

1 Peter 1:7

Rev. 3:15-21

AFFLICTIONS

Psalms 34:19; 132:1

Isaiah 48:10

Acts 7:10; 20:23

2 Cor. 6:4

Col. 1:24

1 Thess 3:3

Hebrews 12:5-12

Rev. 3:18

SICKNESS AND HEALING

Exodus 15:26

Psalm 6:2

Isaiah 30:26

Jer. 30:17

Eze. 34:16

Hosea 6:1

Mal. 4:2

Matthew 10:8

Mark 2:17

Luke 5:31

James 5:15

1 Peter 2:24

Rev. 22:2

RELYING ON DOCTORS AND MEDICINE



2 Chr. 16:12,13

Job 13:4

Psalms 34:19; 108:12

Isaiah 30:1-3

Jer. 17:5-7,14

Hosea 5:13

Mark 5:25-29

Luke 8:43

MADE PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERING

Job 5:18; 23:10

Psalms 50:5; 119:67,71

Isaiah 48:10

Jer. 31:18

Hosea 5:15; 6:1

Romans 8:17

2 Cor. 4:17

Hebrews 2:10; 5:7-9; 12:10,11

1 Peter 4:1,12; 5:1,9,10

Rev. 3:19

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

The sad truth is that the seed of the gospel falls on different kinds of ground: rocky, shallow, sunlight dries up new growth.

People are going to FALL AWAY. It is a prophesy. We ought to pray for those people: ask God to send angels to pull them out of the ditch and drag them back to Church.

Our society does nothing to undergird belief in anything other than money, self indulgence and self promotion. They will FALL AWAY.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost...

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Hebrews 3:12-19 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Revelation 2:4-5 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Matthew 24:10-13 - And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.....

Revelation 3:11 - Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

James 1:12 - Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Pray for them! Mishael

On 'BORN OF GOD' - 'BORN AGAIN

Most people on this website claim to be so-called Christians, but in truth are they followers of Jesus Christ or do they follow after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Rev. 12:9)?. Most of them also claim to be so-called 'Born Again', which means 'Born of God', but are they, or is it a form of self-transformation ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15), while in truth they are wearing the wrong garment ( Psalm 6:8; Matthew 7:20-23; 9:16; 22:2-14; Mark 2:21; Luke 5:36)?

For answers to the above questions we invite you to peruse the earlier Comment below.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

Hi Joshua. Just to briefly chime in here to lend full agreement & support to what you have declared as this is how I understand the believers' stand before God. The Lord will not draw a (predestined) seeking soul, in his conviction of sin upon hearing the Gospel, his cry out for forgiveness & then receiving confirmation of that redemption with joy, peace & the indwelling of His Spirit, if he then at some future date, decides to reject the Lord & turn back to his old ways. God makes no mistakes in His Call & Confirmation.

If a 'Christian' turns back, it can never be our determination of what sort of experience & spiritual work has been done in that life. God only knows every heart & our 'judgement' can only be based on what our eyes perceive: & that's not a good basis at all. That is why at one's water baptism, one can only be baptized based on the testimony of one's faith, not on the knowledge of the person's heart, mind or his present/future walk with the Lord. If a believer sins or even backslides, the matter is between him & God: for the Spirit's Work in Him to draw him back to spiritual health. We might see a 'Christian' lost into the world, but as said earlier, our perception is not with God's Knowledge; that same 'Christian' may one day return to full faith in a special abundant way.

And to add one more thing: "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." ( Matthew 10:22, 24:13). This is the ultimate test isn't it, as has been proven over the centuries when godly folk, who may not readily agree with our understanding of the doctrines & lessons we discuss here, but who for their love for God through Christ & with a solid unshakeable faith, have gone to their deaths at the stake or the sword. Does it take such an event to convince us of their salvation? Maybe so. Is it even important or right that we do so, as each soul stands or falls depending on what has or has not transpired between him and God?

Hello, I agree with everything you typed except your paragraph starting with "If we continue our old practice..." Your scripture references don't relate to the claim that Christians are suddenly never Christians- almost like pretending to erase history. Who are you to say a person isn't a Christian if they're following Christ and who are you to say they don't have freewill to turn and make bad choices later on in life. What's your criteria on what a Christian is? Judas betrayed Jesus and is probably in hell. Peter denied Jesus and he was a devout Christ-follower (a Christian), so is your belief that Peter was never a Christian, even though he literally was a Christ follower? There's an ex-Christian forum online that has 71,000+ members. Where they 'never' Christians, but they were and maybe they will be again. I know you didn't answer the previous questions and that's your own choice to not not consider another point of view or not. God bless.

Hello Adam,

Yes, I am a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The standard I only desire to use is God's Word, and this is the only standard anyone can use regarding the truth( John 17:17).

Whether we, still imperfect in our sinful flesh, can "know" if we are saved or not is a good question. God tells us to examine ourselves, to see if we are in the faith( 2 Cor. 13:5). We examine if we are walking in agreement with God.

The whole of God's Word shows us that once we are born again, we become a new creature( 2 Corinthians 5:17). We are to be dead to our old ways. Dead to the ways of the world, because the world is wicked( 1 John 5:19). We are not to continue practicing sin( Titus 2:12, James 1:27).

We will still sin because we are still imperfect. ( Romans 7:23-24, Philippians 3:12, Ephesians 4:13). The difference is we do not continue PRACTICING sin, or WILLFULLY sinning. God does not judge by appearance, but by the TRUE state of our HEARTS( Luke 16:15, John 7:24).

If we continue our old practice - our dead in our sins way of living AFTER we become saved, we were never saved/born again to begin with( Hebrews 10:26, Hebrews 10:38-39, 1 John 2:15, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

We are still in the world but we are not of the world( John 17:16, Romans 12:2). On the contrary, we are tasked by the Lord to be examples & witnesses to the world( Philippians 2:15, Matthew 5:14, Romans 10:9-11, 13-15, 2 Corinthians 4:13).

This, I believe, is the "key" to knowing whether or not we are truly saved. If we truly believe.

Hi Joshua,

Do you believe that Christians physically cannot deny Christ? If so, do you think that God denies them their freewill?

Are you a Christian currently? If so, if you chose to deny Christ, would that mean you were somehow never a Christian?

So, what do you think qualifies someone to be a Christian then? If someone prays and asks for forgiveness and says he believes Jesus is the son of God and is Lord and wants to follow him and is baptized is that enough?

Christians turn from the faith and deny Christ too often, so all these Christians were never Christians? by the Bible's standards or someone else's? Can anyone be certain they're a true Christian then, because you don't know what you'll say or do in the future, right?

Look at the context of this verse. The one sin that won't be forgiven is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. Right before Jesus said this, he said that those who deny Him (Jesus) before men will be denied eternal life. To deny Jesus is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, and that sin will not be forgiven.

If we deny Christ, we were never saved to begin with, and we are denied eternal life.

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it." Luke 9:24, Matt 16.25, Mark 8:35, Luke 17:33

Verse 19-The man thought that because he had many good things, he could enjoy them for many years. This joy was short-lived.

These miracles done by our Lord are recorded in part to encourage us when we face some hardship. When my baby sister died, my parents suffered greatly. Many years later, my next younger sister died. We suffered but in all we found God's grace to be more than sufficient. The unsaved look on to see how we handle hardship. If we grow in our faith in the midst of these trials, the unsaved will have an improved outlook on what the Christian life is all about.

Keun, from my observations over many, many years, is that both the non-Christian & Christian don't "take this Book too seriously" enough. If you are referring to the Bible, God's Word to us for today & into the future, I have found that we are in the mess we are in today, because we have failed to heed God's Commands given to us in Love & not for our hurt & destruction. We have preferred to go our own way giving little regard to spiritual matters rather attending to worldly possessions & happiness. I wonder how many happy faces are there in Hell?

And so our present state reveals the extent of our deterioration, the deserving of rejection by God, & the necessary closing of this wicked age. Yes, the Bible contains some very serious matters in its pages, & we could do no less than to take it seriously & not casually or flippantly. I sincerely hope that you will carefully & prayerfully read through its pages & learn what God intends for your life & future.

Do you think some of us take this book a little too seriously?

If you have put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe that God has raised him from the dead, you are already baptized in the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; Acts 11:15-17; 1 Corinthians 12:3 and 12:13; 1 John 5:1). All of 1 Corinthians chapter 12 is instructive in the working of the Spirit in Christ's body, the Church.

In John 14:16-18 and in John chapter 16, Jesus promises the Comforter will be sent to dwell with and in his disciples after he returns to the Father. The mission of the Comforter is to reprove the world of sin, righteousness and judgement. As the Spirit of truth, he guides Jesus' followers in all truth, not promoting himself, but glorifying Jesus Christ and the things of Christ.

Romans chapter 8 teaches us about walking in the Spirit after we've learned the hard lesson of our weakness in the flesh as found in Romans 7.

The book of Colossians and 2 Peter chapter 1 are a couple of fine prescriptions for aligning yourself to spiritual living.

How can I be baptized in the holy Spirit and also be filled with the holy Spirit

I need also to walk in the spirit

Some time ifeel so weak to pray

I need to be help

In reference too, Luke 12 read Luke 11 2-4 We have pray repeatedly, until Jesus return.

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. --- You can be forgiven if you speak against the Son but if you blaspheme against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. You may be able to deny or speak bad things against the Son but be careful how you treat the Spirit of God.

Your words touched my heart and I feel I've been down the same road. God bless you for your words and heart .

All Love is given to those who Love others. Never take anyone personnel that does or talks against you. Always carry God's Love in your heart so you can show His Love in you to them. Always keep the Faith inside you that He will lead you to others in need of His Love you carry from Him. Never forsake Others- - for your Heavenly Father never forsakes you. Keep your Father close always! Much Love!!!

God is with us! No matter how alone you feel- God is next to you listening and knowing what to do to better your life with His Light of Strength. His Love will show through others. For He will constantly be close with His Love by your Faith you show Him. Fight against the World's Ways. Turn a bad situation into a Godly situation. And show someone else needy His Love for them!! In return Praise!!

Lord show me your strength- - your will-- change my Life for the better with your Love and Compassion you have always given me for helping others. For my final Destiny will be from you!!!

God is good always. Alone l have stood. Strong in Him. Helping others throughout my life. He put me through most of my life in hardships and alone. So l learned myself to be led by Him in what to do in any given situation. Never in the worlds way- only God's way. Now through looking inside first l can help in about any situation with understanding. My writings show what l went through- 50 years! !

Thank you Marilyn, for your words have encouraged me, and the Word of God in Chapter 12, really spoke directly yo my need. I thank God for restoring my soul as well as my physically healing. Please continue to pray for and with me, as I seek Him the more for me husband children family Body of Christ sinners black sliders. I long for his restoration since my illness. Thanks again for all comments.

This really Blessed me and spoke personally to me. I woke up at 3am and could not go back to sleep. As I do often I get up and read online scripture, as some of us are reading a chapter of Luke each day until the 24th of December. As I had Brain Surgery Aug. 5,6, 2015, it left be paralyzed from waist down. I had to learn to set up, walk all over again. My hair has not grown back and when that.....