Luke Chapter 17 Discussion Page 3

Hello Jeanette, thank you for your detailed account of your experiences in your Church Fellowship. It was very sad to read it, as the absence of Christ-like love & empathy for one another, must be a key component in a Spirit-filled, Spirit-led Church. The evidence of the pastor's indifference & his wife's treatment of you, do not bode well with me & did trouble my spirit much. The fact of his sound biblical teaching seems to negate his otherwise carnal behaviour to you & maybe to others (though I guess there are still only a few who attend). Then the question: why do the visitors not stay? What are they perceiving that might not be sitting well with them?

I feel that you have been very faithful to the pastor(s) for a very long time, given the distance to your home, car problems, & other issues. Many would have not persevered for so long. You do not mention if there are any other Fellowships in your city that may be suitable or you may have visited. I am not familiar with the Apostles Doctrine Church of God, as I don't live in the U.S., but I could suggest you visit a fundamental Church, like a Baptist Church, Church of Christ, an Open Brethren Church. Or if you desire a Church that emphasises & demonstrates more of the outward spiritual Gifts, then an Assemblies of God Fellowship might be suitable. So by my suggesting the above, of course means that I believe that your on-going experiences at this Church & your own grief & lack of growth in the Lord, are sufficient reasons to leave. Yet, as you have been in much prayer over this matter, it still remains your personal decision before the Lord & no one can push you to separate from the Fellowship.

Maybe even some one else reading your account now, who lives in or is familiar with the St. Louis area, can help you with suggesting a good Bible believing, Christ-centred Church, that they can direct you. I googled & found some. Again, I am so sorry to read your story & pray the Spirit's help to you in the days ahead.

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The pastor preaches sound doctrine, his teachings seems so perfect, and that no one questions any issues. Pastor cannot tolerate any questions if it seems challenging to him. Yes, my last youngest daughter and I have prayed, and fasted many of days, asking God to direct us. To let us know if the sin is in us. And if we are blind. And if we are open our eyes and help us change and submit. But God's word keeps jumping out at me because I have written it in my heart. And we hold no grudges and totally forgive them if it is them. My daughter and I just want to be all that God wants us to and get to heaven. The scripture says, no greater love than this that a man would lay down his life for a friend. He called us friend, even in our sin. Do I stay and suffer this out or is God trying to direct me? Our church Apostles Doctrine church of God, Sunday 12 noon, Tuesday 7;30pm bible study, Wednesday 7:30 prayer, Friday 7:30pm bible study, and Saturday 1pm prayer. Our conference call number is 1 (617) 829-6488. Anyone can tune in and do not have to announce their name.

Thank you for listening to the summary.

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The pastor's wife started to build up her resentment again, and pastor began to talk sarcastically to me again. Mentioning often to the congregation to separate yourselves to those that are disobedient, and disobedient in every way mostly if you can't get to church or be there sun up and sun down. As of today, the pastor said that he does not want to be in a store front church after the lease is up, which is in February. He says he wants his own church and has been looking, and told us to keep looking. Because of COVID, he asked some if the congregation wanted to go back in the church, or continue the conference call. And that it would be no problem at all, it's totally up to us to feel safe. Most of his immediate family went back to the church. I and a few others are still using the conference call. Needless to say, after two weeks or so, he began to preach how we had no faith, we don't want to come to church and stay at home, and that we could be in a backsliding state. I knew it was coming. Because my pastor operates better when he can see people.

Now going back to my first contact with you all, is why I need some advice. I'm at the point in my life, not to waste 10 years in a church that there's no fruit of the spirit and where I feel that I am dying. I am a faithful tithes payer, and I do know that if I had to borrow money, no matter what amount, they both would lend it to me, they have before. They know I'm good for my word, and I know they are willing, that's what makes this all so sad. My spirit is strong and I am strong in the power of God's might. I never had the mind to leave holiness, but the love of God that is exemplified in the bible is not what I see. Not that I'm in that perfect place, but sometimes we should at least come close. Being one accord, with one mind, and not divided.

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That year I found myself not going back to the church regularly. I felt that if she walked up to me again and lean over in my face again, I might have to push her off. She was old enough to be my mother, so I felt it best to get away. When I lefty after being out close to a year, I got married to a man 12 years older than me who was an elder but was a church hopper and had 9 previous wives. I blamed no one but myself. Although I prayed day and night to be in God's will. I went to his church to visit before we married, and he was preparing for his ordination. I did call my pastor to marry us, and he said it would be his privilege. He had told the congregation how I had been faithful and waited a long time. He believed people needed to get married quickly because of burning of the flesh. When my husband had us leaving different churches, due to the fact that his pastor refused to ordain him, in the ordination because he did a background check of previous pastors. I thought that that pastor is where he has been going all the time. He only wanted to get ordained to have his own little church, and to run it his way. And I was to be his quiet, obedient wife, with the two other children he bought. A 3 year old, and an 8 year old son. Needless to say, I was separated and would visit the old church until I returned in 2017. My old pastor was glad to see me back. He knew that I could add to the church in a positive way. His wife would speak to me also, very friendly as usual in front of him, but very sneaky. I still did not trust her. But I had matured enough to know that she has problems that she had not given to God. Because God would send members to their church for growth for them. And needless to say, the church was smaller, and they were in a store front church.

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Needless to say, she kept it up, and any member who would come to the church or visitors, all would treat me with distance, as though you would (point out a brother). One time, someone in the church said there money was missing. I can't remember if my mother gave it to a person or not. But the sister let us know that it was missing and I told her she must let the pastor know. I remember this clearly. There were other visitors of course who weren't Christians/saved there. Pastor announced it in the pulpit to please return it, you can imagine how he expressed it. His wife the called the attention to the church and stood up in front of everybody and said, the Lord had let her know that I think she said three people who weren't right or something like a thief. I cannot remember correct words. God had told her this. About 15 min later in that same hour, the congregation moved around, and it was figured out. The money was stuck in someone's purse as a gift without them knowing it. But was stuck in the wrong purse, and when they went to it, it was there just like they said. Pastor's wife did not apologize and of course pastor did not correct her. I don't know maybe he did in private.

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Around 2009, I was joyful but hurt at the same time because I could not understand in my commitment to holiness, why there was no brotherly love. I thought everyone should have brotherly love. I stretched myself far, visited most people houses throughout the years, but only one or two have come to mind. Don't get me wrong, my pastor always asked if I need a ride or money for gas. But sometimes we need neither but something else from our Christian brothers and sisters like encouragement, strength, to know I miss you and not criticize you one you get there.

The day that the pastor's wife took me to that room and got in my face, her body touched my chest, and that was too close as she was talking to me. I have never been approached like that by a grown woman in my life. I had talked to my mother, and she told me I should talk to the pastor. I talked to him privately and he said he would speak with her and get back with me. When he did get back with me at church, I cannot remember if it was a church night after service or we met at the church in a room. This is what he did, he said, "I talked to my wife about what you said", and as I walked into the room, he said "there", turned toward his wife, so she and I would face each other. And left it that way. She said what she wanted to me, and he did not help as far as I can remember. He put me in front of my attacker. I was so hurt, disrespected, and undermined.

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There was no older people to look up to. Pastor said he wanted to run the church his way. I was careful about hearing those words, but I'm sure he was implying Hebrews 12:14. When he would say things which sounded like anger, I'm not saying it was, or act a certain way that I know he would not act if certain deacons and pastors were there. I must be honest, it concerned me. This was around about 2001. We were in a large church rented from another church. Very huge but very seldom got passed a handful of people. When the church seemed to grow, they stayed for a while and leave. The pastor does not know to this day, that most of them told me that this church would never grow if there's no love. I feel that if the pastor is hard, we could tolerate it to a certain extinct. I used to be able to encourage him, but his wife, I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, is doing so much discord which causes the division. Any ideas we have, she would try to take over, or be a part of it, because she knew certain ones had gifts. But what she was doing was sickening to our stomachs. I was faithful to church 3 days out of a week if possible. I lived in south St. Louis, and their church was all the way North County. It seemed like no one cared how far I had to drive because when I missed a day or two, he would mention in church that some of us aren't committed and wont sacrifice. Sometimes I went to church with no electric, very little food, and a car with expired license plate and bad engine.

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Thank you for responding to me so soon, I really appreciate it. My heart was so heavy and I truly truly know what's not the spirit of God. Just to clarify, my pastor got married at the old church, which was a very large church. He has been married I think about 2 years before he moved to his own church. I never did tell the pastor what she said about her being the pastor because the whole church knew it and they were also confused. I do know it is rare, that the pastor's wife is the assistant pastor. With her dominant spirit, most of us let her say what wanted. And I was there only to help build the church, not to change what plans they had. There was no elders in the church for many years. But when his wife's son joined the church, he became deacon and later elder. Pastor Sutherlin asked me and him if we wanted to get our license. The deacon said yes, and I said no I didn't feel I was ready for such training. My pastor did not object. During this time, I was going through so much discord, strife, and conflict. And I knew it would be more like a competition. That's the real reason why I said no. This deacon is younger than I am, and I am 55 years old. At that time I was 45. I felt that I mature and wise. As a single parent who raised three children in church and carried myself respectfully. I didn't care if he was young or old. I had no problem with authority. Especially when God ordains an individual. The only two ministers were he and I. The members were myself and two children, his wife and two children, my mother, another woman with a disability who was about 10 years younger than my mother, and the pastor's brother who was in and out.

This is talking about the rapture. The end of days. One believer will be taken up while the unbeliever will not. Poof, just like that. We (believers) are out of here.

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I would probably first air this matter out with the pastor - have a private talk in his offices & preferably with another Church leader as witness, so that your observations, concerns & fears may be brought to him. How he responds to this & the changes that take place subsequent to your meeting, should guide you for your future within that congregation. I can see that you do value the ministry there, but these subtle goings on, can be unnerving & impede your ministry & personal growth. I'm sure you've brought all this before the Lord & would expect that the pastor would do likewise so that all parties can agree that only the Lord can bring clarity, focus & healing.

May the Lord truly guide you in this & give you His Peace & direction for the days ahead.

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Jeanette, thanks for sharing the background to your sad situation. With what you've written, you seemed to have had the good of the Church & ministering to the children uppermost on your heart - and this was heartening to read & you are to be commended for your love & faithfulness.

However, from the comment by the pastor's wife that she should be considered as pastor in her husband's absence, is concerning. That's not how the Church is organized or functions & I would be surprised if your pastor agreed to that. Are there no elders or deacons appointed, or is the Church a 'one-man show'? Or, maybe women pastors are seen as appropriate appointments within the Church. When she approached you to do something, were you able to discuss the matter with the pastor himself so that he was aware of these 'two voices speaking to you'? It's always the right thing to do, to air out a matter before misunderstandings or friction can arise.

I perceive that there is a 'Control' issue here. Both he & his wife are probably seeing themselves as being 'overlords' & 'owners' of the congregation, to whom his teaching from the Word can only be the one acceptable, rather than believers hearing the Word given & having freedom to verify it in their own hearts & in their own study, to see whether his words are in accord with the Bible. And that both he & his wife's attitude changed after his wife's son joined the Church may indicate some renewed opposition to you, to what you're doing, or the position you hold there.

Absolutely! From Genesis to the last verse in Revelation, the Bible is about the Savior of the world: Jesus Christ. Alpha and Omega: the first and the last.

"God said: this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Worship Him and adore Him

When my pastor left his previous large church as assistant pastor, he told us that God told him it was time to move. He had gotten married right before I left.We called him the walking bible. He taught the ministers who now have gone on and started their own church. We learn the teachings of Jesus to the Apostles and baptize in the name of Jesus. I had left the church before they did. When I found out that my pastor had his own church I immediately joined knowing the teachings. The few of us was called the faithfull twelve. A year later the pastor asked me to be a Sunday school teacher because of how the children learned. I would recruit many neighborhood inner city children and taught songs at my house with my children. I always wanted an army of chidren. I wasn't very excite to teach like a job but I obeyed anyway. It was so depressing at times, because all my student were ages 2yrs to 13 years old in one class. Also some were on medicine. Although I continued I had the gift of teaching, singing, encouragemnt, organization all to help build the churh with joy. I was confused when the pastors wife told everyone that she was the pastor whenever he wasn't around. When he would tell me to do one thing, she would catch me down the hall and say do something else. When I tried to do what the pastor says she began to despise me. One time she got me in a room and rolled her neck and told me that she knew that I didn't like women pastors and that I hate her. I cried and told her that I didn't know what she was talking about and asked why was she doing that to me. Anyway a year are more while confused, pastor told me that he wanted to bless me and that the congregation agreed. For such a long time he begins to call me evangelist which slip off of his tongue often. He said that God has let him know due to the work that I do by deffinition. When his wife son repented and joined the church I was treated with such ruddness and pastor began to treat me diferently. It was so evil.

Jeanette, I'm unsure how you are discerning that your Church is rejecting you. Are they avoiding you or speaking against you? Maybe, you have shared something to the pastor or people that is in conflict with the Church's teaching? Unless, you know the reason for this 'rejection', it would be hard to suggest whether it is God's direction for you to move you away or otherwise.

If however, you are in a Church that is not preaching correctly from the Word, & even after you bringing up the matter with the elders of the Church, you are being shunned or spoken against, then it would be high time for you to leave & seek out a Bible-believing, Christ-centred Fellowship. But unless we have some specifics as to what has taken place at your Church, then we couldn't give you correct advice - it would be advice based on suppositions.

How do I know when the church is rejecting me and God is maybe leading me to another church?

Anyone else ever think the Bible was written about one person?

I think what happened is your reading from a Bible that is in paragraphs. The scripture number is within the paragraph. You saw verse 11 and it was next to numeral "10" and you thought it was 11 leper's.

I've never seen that before, but it happened today. :D

God bless you.

Hello Cher,

Looking into your question I found the answer for you. At the bottom of the "trivia quiz" it gives an explanation of the answer. One leaper sought Him out in Luke 5:12 He healed. Then the ten in Luke 17:12 or 17. All the Bibles have the same numbers as I checked. So the answer eleven is correct.

Hope this helps.

God Bless.

I Googled and it says 10 men with leprosy came to Jesus.

The KJV Bible is the most accurate translation of Canonized Scripture.

I suggest you do a Google study. Council of Nicea.

Or perhaps Chris will comment on this later.

Your trivia on Luke17 has a discrepency in the number of men who had leprosy that came to Jesus. When I read the standard english bible, it says there were 10 men who were lepers. Your King James bible version says there are 11. Who has the correct account of the bible?

On Luke ch 17:3to the ending, there so much that we can learn/take from this chap. Yet we/some just see/or want to make or say what's not there. I agree with Jones response on Luke17:3 I was a country gal raised on some what farm n u eat what u plant so going back to to Bed, Grinding by2 n1 taken we plant crops by beds also I remember my Granny n her little coffee mill or grinder which we would take turns n the smell of the fresh coffee, I can still smell at present but that was one of my highlights going to visit on holidays.

So Friends don't try to Change Gods Word He said what He said n that's the Bible Truth. Ask God to help u to understand n He God will reveal /show u in your searching Come Lets Reason Saint saith The Lord, those are his words stop assuming what's not there Ask n it shall be given knock n it will be open for whosoever do like wise will be rewarded in due season. Our Father God is loving n Merciful n know/see our hearts n what we're thinking n is always thereto help n answer when We call on Him Be Bless n stay in the word Gods good n He made Us All in His own image

Luke 17:35-36. To my understanding it denots the household works in afternoon. In olden times grinding works carried out in the afternoon by women. As also two men in the field denots the day time, works in the field. Luke 17:34 says : in that night there shall be two men in one bed. This is picture of the world when our Lord appears in the heaven. Our Lord come for the whole world. Then as usual half of the world is under night and other half - in day time. Luke 21:27 and then shall they see the son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. The sealing is already over and sealed will be transformed instantaneously and fly towards our Lord. When our Lord comes, saved and unsaved are intimately living together and only saved are transformed.It is a warning to all belivers for checking their names in the book of life and uptodate it now. It is our personal choice only. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15.Believe in Jesus and keep his commandmends.Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 1John4:15.

Reply to Terry Henson on Luke 17:32. Look in Genesis 19:24-29 KJV.

Luke 17:34 - Careful study suggests that the faithfull will be with our Lord Jesus on His return. Others will be perished as like in the age of Noah and Lot. The disciples asks where he one shall be taken? The taken shall be perished and eagles will feast on their dead bodies. Revelation 19:21- And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of His mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. For our Lord death is a sleep only. John 11:11 - These things said He :and after that He saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth: but I go, that I may awake him. In reality , Lazarus was dead. Thus the death of an unfaithful is a permanent departure from Him.Still it is a sleep. The unfaithfull will be judged after millennium. "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that love not his brother abideth in death. John 3:14.

Hebrews 5:12

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

We each have to lay down, layer upon layer, of Knowledge. It involves turning the tv off and reading through Books (plural) of the Bible. What's your real life appetite for food?

television, media, Twitter are Junk Food.

Start consuming the Bible on your own resolve.

This Website has a great Search Engine that I hope you are using for some of your questions.

It includes Commentaries by Matthew Henry and others.

It has a quickie link to Google who checks to see what it has for your scripture and verse.

If you will learn how to use this website's Bible Study helps, you'll have more fun studying.

Born again people, HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST. We have The Holy Spirit as our Teacher. John 16. You have to initiate a one to one relationship to HIM. Ask Him. Pray for a teachable spirit.

This website gleans posted comments that are alike in subject. Useful to see what others think on that subject. Explore all of the Links. Click on everything :D

1. Thanks for that. Many have been saying once a christian and that's it. As you rightly said, end time event is not salvation. You receive salvation when you become born again and grace is imparted into you. But at the seat of judgement, you need mercy. The grace given to you at salvation is to overcome sin and do what you are assigned to do. You will give account of the use of the grace; what you used the grace for: Romans 2:5-7 "5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"

At the judgement seat, you need mercy. And mercy is at the discretion of the Lord.

2. The issue of two men on the same bed is not in support of homosexuality. Rather, it is an assumption by those who conclude on the perversion. Being in the same bed together is not to mean they were sexually cordial. It is a family thing. And it does not mean they are both men; the word "men" could be used as unisex to mean a species. Thank you again

The men were probably huddled around a campfire to keep warm. Anyone who camps out under the stars knows that. Let's not fix this scripture to an issue of homosexuality, ok?

Grinding: they were grinding grain into a flour to bake with. You can easily say 2 women are standing side by side. The believer in Jesus will be caught up in the clouds; the unbeliever will not.

We read the Bible every day so our minds can be renewed on the Holiness and Purity of Jesus: who is the Word of God, in the flesh.

This website has a Commentary that is accessed through the blank Search Box.

I go there often to read what it says.

You can read Commentaries through GOOGLE also.

Back in the day when you could not go to the grocery store to get your cereal people made their own flour by grinding the grains into flour. Two women grinding together is what that verse is referring to. The two men in bed, back in the day and most third world countries there is one room where people sleep. Very common for families to be sleeping in one large bedded area. Hence to men in bed together.

Looks like you're talking about Luke 17:34-35. This is Jesus talking about an event many call the rapture where people are taken away- possibly to paradise or to maybe be judged first. I personally do not know how this coincides with Jesus meeting His followers in the air 1 Thessalonians 4:17. I don't believe the end times events is a salvation issue so I don't have a particular opinion on it. As for the women grinding, I think these are women working in a mill. As for the men, I think they were sleeping in a bed. I don't believe this implies any kind of homosexuality as it's not uncommon for people to stay in people's houses and share a bed or whatever limited resources they had.