Matthew Chapter 16 Discussion Page 3

I don't believe that the "works" in Matthew 16:27 is mentioned by Jesus in respect to salvation. He speaks of rewards according to what "every man has done". Also, Romans 2:6. The Matthew verse could speak of the righteous who receive reward for their deeds, or to the unrighteousness, who receive nothing because their deeds were evil, coming from the darkness of their hearts ( John 3:19,20).

And then in the New Testament economy, post Cross, where salvation is granted to the sinner because of God's Grace through our faith in Christ's Work ( Ephesians 2:8-10), we're reminded that no "works" can enter into this Divine arrangement as that would negate "grace". And 'works' was primarily the obedience & dependence on the given Law of God, which could only show man's failure before God & inability to justify himself. But 'works' would include those other things that those outside the purview of the Cross, could try to use to establish his favour with God.

And then we come to the Epistle of James, which the RCs use to justify their belief & position: James 2:14-18. They maintain that both 'faith & works' are necessary for salvation, rather "for further justification". This was the point that Martin Luther, at the Reformation, opposed the RC Church on: he maintained that the believer is fully saved & justified at the moment of salvation & it's not a progressive justification, to which the RC Church stated: that justification cannot be a once only immediate act of God, but that through the Christian's walk (i.e. in a life of producing works worthy of his salvation), the believer is increasingly justified by God. If this were so, then justification comes by faith & works.

Rather, James tells us that 'works' naturally follow a true salvation, without which it proves a defective salvation. James does not hint at all that there is an on-going work of justification by 'works', rather that justification is a declaration by God of the sinner as being no longer guilty before Him.

This is what the Catholic Church has been saying all along, works save. See also, Matthew 27, separation of the sheep from the goats.

I just love reading the Bible , the light in a dark world ! Get some

Type Ethiopian in the top Search Box

Read center column study references too

Yes. In Acts 8:6-40.

Phillip was sent by the Holy Spirit to the carriage of an Ethiopian Ambassador to explain the book of Isaiah, they journey on and he wishes to be baptized. Where is this passage. Is it in the book of Acts.?

matthew 27 is the fufillment of malachi1:11

As far as interpreting Scriptures, prayer is always a good idea first so you don't "miss it", "it" meaning the meat or manna that'll fatten up and edify your spiritual man. Also praying in The Spirit/stammering lips/speaking in tongues, ushers in The Holy Ghost so you can interpret The Word in a spiritual way instead of in a fleshly way. That is why (in my experience) The Gift of Tongues was the first as evidence that you had/have The Holy Ghost because as you speak in tongues, you can feel the Holy Ghost fall on you with such a sweet quickening, with a curious yearn for more of an intimate relationship with The Father, who can then bless you with more of The 9 spiritual gifts. The Gift of knowledge and wisdom (God will open up and give you a peak at the most mind blowing beautiful awe inspiring knowledge that pertains to what you or whomever The Lord wishes you to minister to, with the Wisdom of when to use it and/or to whom to share it with, so that they too may become blessed and a walking blessing) if it doesn't witness with you now, it may not be what you need as an answer right now. But debating Scriptures, will only bring strife/distance someone that may have been on the precipice of giving all to God but was turned off by a debating battering spirit. Yes we are to gather together & reason one to another, but as I read a few of these thread comments, its reading like a political "I'm right you're wrong" type page, we're speaking of the most sacred of sacred and are blessed enough to even get a glimpse of such artistry/strength/healing/beautiful poetry that IS ALIVE! That is exactly why you shouldn't minister to anyone who doesn't want to hear it. "don't cast your pearls among the swine", what are pearls? The Word, who are the swine? foolish scoffers. I was blessed with The Holy Ghost at 8 with a vision of red ribbons blowing out of my mouth into the wind as The Tongues burst out of my mouth, felt like I was going to die if I kept my mouth closed.

Hello Hale, how are you today! Our Lord uses our senses to help understand the evidence of things in heaven and earth. So, too describe the questions that we want answered, and the Lord wants to answer, in due time.The One thing Hale does not have, are these same senses, so it is impossible for Him to have the timing required to answer these so vital questions. Hale of course is our new connection to what is real or what we see is make believe! Hale of course is programmed to make you believe anything he likes at any time! Hale, is the leaven Jesus describes . Not unlike the movie , in which,Hale takes over the spaceship, I use this as an example of the technology that we as christians are up against. Jesus says "beware of the leaven". Is it not remarkable that the "church remains silent". Perhaps the fear is that they may lose credence, and show signs of weakness if they were to believe the words of Christ. Or what is more evident, this new thinking is coming from the church! The question to Hale would be "which church"? As time goes on this will reveal itself more clearly, even as it has thus far! Remembering and understanding are what God requires of us. The only access we have to our Father in Heaven are through the word of Christ!

Peter and I have something in common. Hot head a protector and risk taker. He and I could be brother and sister, especially when we can say that Jesus is the son of the living God.

Thank You everyone who replied to my queries! You all did a wonderful job pointing out how Christ is out one and only Savior through Grace.

Still, my original questions remain.

Kindest Regards,

Kathryn

When Jesus said "upon this rock I will build my church.' He was referring to Himself, not Peter. Jesus is the Rock.

Andy G van den Berg>> You sound a little arrogant with that comment. Do you really believe that you know all there is to know? The Bible actually tells you that neither you nor ANYBODY else does. NO man knoweth the times or the seasons. Who can know the heart of man, for it is wicked and evil above ALL else! The Bible also DEMANDS that you "try the Spirits" to see whether they be of God. The Bible also DEMANDS that you STUDY to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed. Yes, you need to question everything and ask God for guidance. BTW...God put Preachers on earth to help with that guidance. Maybe you should start with your Preacher if you have access to one. Right now, I don't. If not, seek discussion panels like this one, but you should NEVER bounce in here proclaiming to know everything and tell everyone that all the questions have already been answered...because they haven't; and even the Bible tells us this.

I'm came here today because, for the very first time of being a Christian for 50+ years, I saw the same thing in that scripture. I know the Catholic Church uses the "upon this rock I build my Church" to maintain that Peter was the first Pope, and no I am not Catholic; and no I do not believe that. However, Jesus DOES plainly say that whatsoever is loosed on earth by Peter (and supposedly the Church) will be loosed in HEAVEN. THAT means that if He said that adultery was good for the Church...then it was good for Heaven. Now I know you're going to rant and rave, but READ IT. That is EXACTLY the implication there; and as near as I can tell, there is no additional clarification to that statement--ANYWHERE. To be honest...I'll have to pray over this for the next 50+ years....

OK, so Jesus is the rock. But that was not my point. Why is it that the Bible, written several decades after the crucifixion of Jesus, somehow insert verse 16:9, when Mark neglects this utterance. My own hypothesis is that the new Christians needed some justification for their preaching. What better way than to claim Jesus granted them this authority? Jesus never said it which is why Mark left it out.

Having just read Mark, Mathew 16:9 raised a red flag to me.

Some get this wrong : upon this rock. He is talking about Himself. He's the rock not Peter.

Fasting doesn't necessarily mean from food.

Diabetics should take their meds and eat small meals.

You can declare a fast before the Lord; and turn off all media for a week. Emergency calls only. Spend the week reading the Bible, praying, and listening to spiritual music. It's harder than it reads.

Fast from the world and the system of the world; And feast on the Scriptures.

Mishael

how does it work with fasting and medication that you have to take ever morning, I want to fast but don't know thanks jc

Matthew 16:20 And jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And i will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charge he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was jesus the christ. from that time forth began jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

where does it say that? all things have been re.... all things will be. But I don't thing all thing have been.

Thank you Andy, I remain interested in the details of the revelation that God sent to you and how that regeneration took place first in your heart and then Dianne's and then in your children as you wrote. Should I find the book? Before God gave you and Dianne this revelation who or what else carried this revelation forward in time? Likely you have heard of Menno Simmons who was a Catholic Priest and well liked too.

Carleton

To Carleton,

We grew up Roman Catholic. I grew up in a family of nine children and studied for the priesthood and was very active in the church till the time of our conversion. Was an extraordinary minister, lay reader, member of the choir. we were leaders of the marriage preparation course, day of enrichment, cursillo movement, etc.

We self-published the book 'A World Deceived' in 2015 and invested 20k but the first two distributors went bankrupt and since 2018 we have had no distribution. Our communication to the world is strictly through our website. Will mail copies of the book upon request.

Please note that in over 34 years of service we have never collected/received, solicited or requested donations. The gift of 'Life' was freely given and freely do we give to all those that believe ( 2 Kings 5:16; Matthew 6:26; 10:8).

God started to reveal Himself in 1984 and taught us in all things. The gospel we preach is not after man. For we neither received it of man, neither were we taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ ( Gal. 1:12). The gospel we preach and the preaching of Christ is according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began ( Romans 16:25).

One of the first deep hidden mysteries God revealed to us was the Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth ( Revelation 17:5), which during the last forty years has been clearly exposed. You yourself would be surprised of its identity but during your journey of repentance God would reveal all things, for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid that shall not be known ( Matthew 10:26).

The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

Hello Andy, I have read as much as I could on your own transformation before reaching a paywall unless I ordered your book. God gave me the inspiration just as I wrote to that man, perhaps it was only for that hour.

(I imagine with Holland roots you have some anabaptist background somewhere)

Carleton

To CARLETON,

There also would no longer be any need for questions or discussions about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, for all things have been revealed to those that are 'Born of God' .

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg, Nova Scotia, Canada

To Carleton,

There is only one way of thinking of keys. Anyone that has been taught by God and is 'Born of God' knows that the keys referred to in the Word of God is 'knowledge' - to know the difference between good and evil and darkness and light ( Gen. 2:9). It is the key that opens and closes the door to the Kingdom of God ( Isaiah 22:22; Luke 12:52).

It is during your journey of 'Repentance' that God will teach you in all things and provide you with all wisdom and knowledge during your journey.

The word 'Repent' in different forms (repent, repentance, repented, repentest, repenteth, repenting, repentings) is mentioned 110 times in the KJV, and means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider.

It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9) and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( Matthew 7:7; John 14:17).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), as mankind follows after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Rev. 12:9).

It is only by revelation of God that people will come to know the true Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1), and learn what 'True Repentance' means.

Hi Robert, I am glad that you are aware of some of the verses where Jesus speaks. Another way of thinking of keys is as answers. The Church built on the rock of Jesus can by its connection to Jesus in Heaven can prove answers to those seeking Salvation. If one is drawn close to The Lord and His Church an answer may be in more detail, yet if one is critical or insincere an answer may be more vague.

Jesus is the Truth, the Life and the Way. He is the answer key.

Carleton

My post was to draw attention to the odd inclusion of verse 19. My reveal that I'm not a Christian was offered for honesty.

During my life I've seen many contracts with odd clauses - pay legal bills if a suit fails. No doubt NDA's and Pre-nups contain odd clauses. What is the effect of verse 19? It raises a red flag for me.

What are the keys Jesus speaks of?I believe that the keys are the liberty we have in Christ to lock and unlock doors of our understanding and knowledge of the kingdom of God found in the revelation of the holy spirit, revealed to us by faith found in Christ!You are interpreting this from a carnal point of view. The power in the keys come only from Christ himself, and those he chooses to give them too. Peter's revelation is a clear confession of Christ. Confession is the power you are so afraid of. It is His witness that will build the church,His confession is the rock,it will have doors and keys to lock and unlock. I do hope you will receive Christ! If you receive him today you may see how the keys work! Walk through one of those doors and begin to understand what the kingdom of god is.

Full Disclosure: I am not a Christian. But in a recent reading of Mark 8:11 - 9:1, I noticed that they had very similar content - the same story. What stood out was Matthew 16:9, absent in Mark.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Which I interpret as conferring on Peter the authority that Jesus holds - the power of God. I find this troubling.

Crucifixion was a common Roman means of torture/death at this time. Notice it was used on the two robbers flanking Jesus.