Warning: session_start(): open(/var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80/sess_p7f45cd71sdkmdd9iknhfprtth, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Book-Discussion/bookdiscuss.php on line 2
Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Book-Discussion/bookdiscuss.php on line 2 Matthew Chapter 18 Discussion
alex1939...Bob good question...Truly something to think about the "Church"...But under this New Covenant at Calvary the Church became...The Bride..Now its our bodies that are his temple...Abide in me and i in you...I am the true vine and you are the branches...Thats y he has to know us, Under this New Covenant there has to be a Heavenly Birth via his Seed his Words...Thus the very Kingdom of God is gonna be with in us...There is gona be a Change in the Church via this New Covenant...If any man hears my words and keeps them my Father and i will come and take our abode within him...We have a new priesthood now b/c of this N.C...And this N.C is Christ in us the hope of Glory...At Pentacost we see a N.C. taking place...in the hearts of Jew and Gentiles alike Which was the gift of the H.G. That Child of Promise was born to them, in their hearts, they became the very Temple of God
....Long ago Gen. 22:17..God Almighty made a promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven and God swore by this Promise...Thats y the sower of that incorruptible seed wants to sow his seed in our hearts...That we might birth Christ in our hearts the Son of MAN...That Child of Promise...Thats y Jesus refered to the H.G as the Promise the H.G. is the multiplication of very God...To whom his words came ( Jesus Words ) the living words it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken...And we are gona be his TEMPLE...Forever...And we are gonna marry the H.G. OUR SON... Isaiah 62:5...As a young man marries a virgin so shall thy sons marry thee...The son of man is our only son the H.G....Our 1st born from above.
Jesus cd not tell everything till all was fulfilled...He cd not offend till all was fulfilled..Thats y the scrip. is saying these things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes...The woman in Rev 12:5 could not give birth to the Children of Promise till that book was opened...Thats when they sang a new song..We will no more sing this churchanity song.GBU
Hello Bob. The Greek word for 'Church' (as in Matthew 18:17), is "ekklesia", which applies to a Church congregation, or even an assembly of people.
In Acts 19:38,39, we read, "Wherefore if Demetrius, and the craftsmen which are with him, have a matter against any man, the law is open, and there are deputies: let them implead one another. But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful ASSEMBLY (ekklesia)." So here, we see the other use of the word, which the Bible translators correctly understood as not applying to the 'Church', but to a non-Church (legal) assembly.
But in Matthew chapter 18, Jesus is speaking to His disciples (verse 1), so as GiGi has shared, it can be accurately understood that this discourse given by Him, was a little insight to the future, i.e. in the administration of His Church, or Assembly, as the Holy Spirit had (or, was given) control & believers were added to it. When we look at this chapter, advice on conversion, humility, sin, conflict between the brethren & prayer are the topics the Lord brings up. Even as the Lord spoke to Peter in Matthew 16:18, that "upon this rock (the body of Truth) I will build my ekklesia".
Bob (Whosoever Jn.3:16) on Matthew 18 - 2 years ago
What church is Jesus referring to in verse 17, if His church was 1st established on Shauvout i.e. The Day Of Pentecost as recorded in the book of Acts when The Holy Spirit filled the 120 believers/followers gathered together in the upper room in Jerusalem after He (Jesus) had risen from the dead?
Or should the word church recorded here by Jesus in verse 17 have another interpretation, such as synagogue etc?
Or is the word church mentioned here the correct litteral interpretation?
THINK ABOUT IT? This came to my attention this a.m. on 12/15/2022.
I enjoyed your comments on this Holy Sabbath Day, and thanks for sharing!
I also observe many people in the world choosing to ignore Jesus Christ and His Gospel of the Kingdom. It is very sad to see the rejection, but it coincides with much of the scripture which tells us so many times that "few people will enter into God's Kingdom".
Matthew 22:14
"For many are called, but few are chosen."
Luke 13:23-24
"Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them," "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."
Matthew 7:14
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
The emphasis coming directly from the mouth of Jesus saying "few there be that find it". If these bible verses don't move a Christian to "take notice" of themselves, nothing well.
Are we truly picking up our crosses and following Christ? Are we living our lives as part of this world? Jesus tells us that we can't do both!
Matthew 16:25
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
People need to take the bible to heart and NOT be lulled into thinking/believing they are (forever saved) while at the same time living their worldly lives.
Matthew 16:26
"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"
There are many false teachers, and preachers out there telling others that you can still live a worldly life and still have a "free ticket to heaven".
Any wonder why Jesus tells us over and over that FEW will be saved!
Only God knows what is in the heart of people, we cannot judge since many times we have been proved wrong.
When I actually believed in Jesus, God opened my eyes to see the truth, it was like there was a cover around me and somebody pulled that away and suddenly a bright light turned on and saw the world as it actually is, not how I thought it were, with a different perception. Although I knew all those things about faith and Jesus and eternal life and the Hebrew history from school, we get tought them in school over here, actually it was like we were learning some kind of mythology or ancient tales and stories, nothing really got inside our heart. We had a sort of vague belief about God. There are lots of people here that love Jesus Christ but they never heard of new birth, baptism in the Spirit, or they consider these were only in the early times, don't take place in the church any more. They worship saints and angels and Mary and many other things just because they were taught that this is the proper way to serve God. Many of them are born again but don't know it. Others think that they are OK since they don't steal, don't kill, as if only these are sins. Others especially the new generations follow the corruptive ways of the world because they think this is progressive now, Christianity is a past thing. If one tries to talk to them about Jesus the way they don't know, they reject him thinking that all those strange things coming from abroad are going to spoil their true(?) faith. I think its the same in all the southern Europe, Italy, Spain, southern France, Portugal, the Balkans etc. People love God but they are trapped in their traditions and denominations. In the North people are completely atheists. I once lived in England for a while and I was surpised that people never even mention God in no case. They don't know Jesus even as a story. How sad. People think they move forward but are moving toawards their distraction. God help us.
I know it's difficult to see. And perhaps more difficult to accept. But I was raised on the campus of a fundamentalist Christian university. We were required to memorize and hand write in cursive and sometimes calligraphy entire passages of scripture. The Mandela effects are plentiful in scripture. Research the twelve tribes of Israel. And, yes, it will show the changed text in every translation you can find. But you will find the original passage in books, like I did in John Eldridge's and Henri Nouwen's. The effects go beyond scripture. Do you recall the children's series "The Berensein Bears"? My sister married and had three children with someone whose name was almost identical to that and also ends in "stein." Of course I would remember that correctly as my two children do. But if you research it, you will be told that you are "misremembering" it if you disagree. That's what makes it so mysterious and unexplainable. Perhaps God is trying to get our attention to not make assumptions about everything we've been led to believe from the pulpit about The Bible. Perhaps God is disappointed with The Church, it's divisiveness and "othering." Perhaps it is God's subtle message to us to ultimately check our hearts for truth. To be still. To "go within" to find the Kingdom of Heaven. I can't speak for others, but for me, when I was an active member of my church, there was very little time for contemplation and inner work. And I believe that is why the pandemic was allowed. It forced us into solitude. Many have been awakened because of it. I'm only saying that it's always wise to keep an open mind in our search for truth. But Christianity is the only religion that I'm aware of where questioning is disallowed. Think of the implications of that. What other systems do you see that playing out in in the world? It's time for sober reflection and wisdom IMO. Thank you for your reply.
Susan, You ask why I don't think we can have a meaningful conversation on Scriptural matters and I stated if we do not agree that the Scriptures are accurate and without error.
If we cannot agree on an objective source of truth, then everything discussed would be considered subjective. There is no "plumb line" to test what each others says. I do not think that "everyone has their own truth".
I believe that, when it comes to spiritual matters, the Bible is the source of absolute truth and is reliably accurate and the measure for which all spiritual viewpoints are held up to. It doesn't seem that you believe this, so unless we can agree on what we accept as the fundamental and objective measure of truth, then I think it is unfruitful to engage in Scriptural conversations with another person.
Perhaps there are some others on this forum who would want to engage with you, but I have a check in my Spirit on this matter and so will go with the lead of the Holy Spirit. I wish you well. I encourage you to seek the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart and take hold of Him by faith.
Just noticed your reply. The Bible is correct. It never said the hearsay of "2 or more" as you believe. People's memories are subject to error and often people memorize hearsay which is wrong to begin with. Just because something was repeated many times during someone's upbringing doesn't mean it's correct. There are other examples of this where people have misremembered verses in the Bible. Example is people saying "Money is root of all evil" instead of "Love of money..." People may hear it in songs or movies, but doesn't mean its correct. What's interesting is people are more trusting of their own flawed teachings than the Bible itself. People are so quick to discredit God's Word and that's hard to see.
There is proof that the Bible has never changed- all someone has to do to prove the KJV hasn't changed is compare the text today to what it was 400+ years ago at its first printing. That is actually on this website and I checked and that verse hasn't changed. It's always said 2 or 3 and never 2 or more. It also shows many other translations which say the same thing. God's truth never changes; people's flawed memories and flawed hearsay does. But one aspect I do agree with is that this is a living Word, that God can reveal new things to us each time we read it through. His Word hasn't changed though and any time someone tries to attack its reputation or claim it has errors I will fight to defend God's word. God bless.
Can I respectfully ask why? I hope you are able to hear the sincerity in my reply. That is the reason that it's so important.
An example would be the current narrative surrounding the pandemic. There are many insightful physicians and scientists with differing perspectives. But those with perspectives that don't fit within the popular and allowed narrative, regardless of their peer reviewed research, are censored and worse. If we cannot have discourse about religion because the "other" disagrees with our views, we cannot grow.
I do understand and I am not offended. I just don't think we can have a meaningful conversation about Scriptural matters if you do not believe it is accurate and God inspired.
GiGi I truly did not mean to offend. I was raised on the campus of a fundamentalist Christian university and believed exactly everything that I was told. I taught it to my children as well. During a particularly dark season of my life, I began to question my faith. Those questions led to deep dives that eventually led me to appreciate the religion of my childhood. But to ultimately recognize that I could no longer believe what I was taught. The work of Delores Cannon, Neville Goddard, Eckhart Tolle and many others resonated too much to be ignored. I think it's very important that all faiths encourage spending much time in quiet stillness, nature and meditation. Going within. That's why Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is within. But I greatly respect others beliefs. I hope that we can have deep, honest and respectful discourse because so much depends on it right now. On almost every subject. Thank you for your reply. And I hope you understand.
However, that is going on the assumption that Scripture has never been translated or altered by human beings. And we know, for instance, that several testaments were suppressed including the Gospel of Thomas and The Gospel of Mary, among others. The Dead Sea Scrolls cannot be ignored in this discussion. So we've been told our entire lives that the Scripture is literally THE word of God. I would say that it is man's translation of events that occurred. It's a history book. And history has changed many times over the centuries. We can see it playing out in our own world right now. Everything is politically driven to control the masses. And religion is a very powerful mode of control. Many people believe that that's why these Mandela effects are occurring. To awaken us to the fact that we have been deceived. Jesus was trying to remind us who we are. Which is why he could perform miracles and said that we could do the same. He had to speak in parables because of the threat of censorship and worse. His very life. People worshipped him even though he didn't want them to. It's much like any well known spiritual teacher today. Or a pastor. Or political leader. People can do radical things when they pedestalize someone. Jesus tried to warn against that.
In reading your post, you said that what everything that is living changes. However, God is ever-living and the Bible clearly says that He is changeless (immutable), the same yesterday, today, tomorrow, eternally so. Just wanted to clarify that.
Wow, where to begin? Space would not allow me to answer all your questions. First of all, always keep in mind that what Jesus suffered on the Cross was for everything that would happen to us. He took our suffering and shame upon His self. All your answers are in the Cross. Take all your burdens to the Lord and lay them at His feet. Only Jesus can give you His Peace and the understanding to carry you through it all. Read the Bible daily! Honestly, I think you should order a Expositor Study Bible from Jimmy Swaggart Ministry. That Bible will truly open up to you all the Truths. Jesus said, " I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Me". ( John 14:6) Another scripture is (Hebrew 13:5-6) " I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do". (Psa.34:19) Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all." Tell your friend to read Proverbs 3:16 and stand upon Gods Word. Trust and believe for He is the healer of all our suffering's. Jesus did it all at Calvary. We are to lean upon Him and His Living Word, the Bible. Amen.
On Romans 2:11 onwards. The apostle is writing about God not showing respect (or, partiality) between Jews & Gentiles. Those who have sinned without having the Law (i.e. Gentiles), will perish not having received the Law (God's Laws to Israel). Likewise, those sinning having the Law (i.e. Jews) will be judged by that Law (& of course, they will fail, for the Law made no one righteous, but only showed their sinfulness). Only the doers of the Law will be justified. So, what Law(s) can be kept perfectly to justify us before God? None, for all have sinned - & the Law only revealed the sin & extent of that sinful condition to the Jew.
Only faith in Jesus can save both Jew & Gentile. Those who keep God's Laws acceptably, are those who have the Holy Spirit & who are living out their lives through Him & by His Power ( Romans 8:1; Galatians 5:25). Both Jew & Gentile who are saved through Christ, are no longer bound to the Law that only brought death, but live in the power & joy of the Holy Spirit, Who helps us live beyond the Letter of the Law, living according to the dictates of the Spirit.
Lastly, one can never do enough for the Lord. How much is ever enough? But, if you're a praying person wanting to use the opportunities God lays upon your heart or directs you to, then every place you go to & every person you meet, may be what the Lord wants for you to share something of His Goodness. Any sense of cowardice will disappear - for the Lord will be your strength ( 2 Timothy 1:7) & your mouth - remembering your witness & life will be the catalyst for someone to become serious about his eternal well-being. You may be God's man for God's special moment in another person's life.
Hi Dgjot. I'll just share on a few matters you raised.
On forgiveness & forgetting. I see 'forgiveness' as a matter of the heart, when one who has been unjustifiably hurt seeks to no longer hold that person accountable for the pain they've caused. The pain will still be there - only the Lord & time can bring healing, but to forgive someone simply means that you won't raise that painful matter again as your heart won't harbour hatred or grudge against another for doing that. To 'forget' the pain given, in most cases, won't ever leave, as that is a part of life's experiences that we retain. Some things we easily forget, especially those of a minor insignificant nature, but some things, even from childhood will always remain - & unfortunately, some of these will be painful & affect us even into adult years.
How does God forgive us? Does He even forget that we sinned against Him? We know that God's Forgiveness comes to us because His Son voluntarily took our punishment, paying for our sins that we could never ever pay for. But does God forget? If He did, then God wouldn't be Omniscient, as He knows & remembers all things that ever happened to us. But what God does do, is that our sins are cast aside, forgiven, & never held to our account, only because of Jesus' Sacrifice (remember Acts 7:59,60, when Stephen, as he was dying, asked God to not lay the sin of his murderers to their charge - in other other words, 'Lord forgive them', or 'don't charge them with this sin'. Peter forgave them & wanted God to also forgive them).
We might be cautious or even remain aloof from someone who has hurt us, but that doesn't mean that we haven't forgiven them, i.e. not holding anger, hatred or grudges. In John 2:23-25, we read that Jesus saw how many believed in Him by the miracles He did - yet, Jesus did not commit (or, entrust, have faith in) them, because He knew what they were like. But He still loved all of them & would always forgive.
I know a lot of C.I.N.O.'s (Christians-in-name-only) who warm a pew on Sunday and then go out and sin the rest of the week.
I have a friend who is a big fan of that show Supernatural. It's as demonic as a show can get.
I have another friend who is into those "boy-love" novels and videos.
I have another friend who goes bar-hopping. They all believe in Jesus. They're sure they're "saved". This is the problem with a lot of "Born-Again" Christians. They misunderstand that we don't get to have it both ways.
Would Jesus wink at this wickedness and say, "Aw, go on. Have fun. I'll still forgive you. Just make sure to repent when you've had your fill." I don't think so.
They see nothing wrong with filling their minds with unwholesome nonsense. They really need to do some soul-searching and pray and ask God for forgiveness and turn away from those things.
Matthew 5:29
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
What Jesus meant (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that sometimes we will have to turn away from, cast off, throw away certain things (material things, ideas, relationships) and it will be as painful as plucking out your eye.
Speaking for myself, I smoked for 40+ years. I liked to smoke but I knew it wasn't pleasing to God so wanted to give it up.
I prayed, begged, apologized and asked for a Divine Intervention to quit.
God answered that prayer.
I went through no withdrawal, had no more cravings and suffered no ill effects. If I had to quit by my own strength, I would have never made it.
I look at what's going on in this world and cringe when I see/understand how badly we have all been deceived. Things we thought were normal or harmless fun were not edifying at all.
You have hit the nail on the head my brother , we cannot forget , this is the power of forgiveness , this is its strength , the fact that we can remember exactly how we got all these wounds and scars and yet , we have forgiven . My dad was vile to my mom and I , after we escaped from him when I was seven , my mom seriously neglected me and psychologically tortured me . I was in my late twenties before I finally realised that none of this was my fault . I now know that both my mom and dad had very serious mental health problems , this has helped me to forgive them both . That doesn't mean that I trust my mom , my dad is dead . I know what my mom is capable of but through Christ I am now very strong , no matter what she does or says she can't hurt me any more , she's my biological mother but Christ is really my mother , God is my Father and it's because of their love and mercy towards me that I can now help my mom , physically and emotionally , at the end of her life , now she's just a vulnerable old lady who needs my help . Truly God and Jesus have strengthened me to enable to put the past behind me and be the best daughter I can be to her . It sounds easy to say this but you must stop thinking about past sufferings , come to terms with the emotions that these memories cause you to feel , once you get a hold of your emotions , which means allow yourself to feel them , you can put the memories to bed . Talk to God and really tell him how you feel , I know He already knows but it's very liberating to pour your heart out to Him , be honest , with yourself and with Him , only by acknowledging your true emotions can you hope to put the past behind you and focus on your future . Talk to God , He knows how you feel and what you've been through , He's waiting for you to talk to Him , He's waiting to heal you . You have nothing to fear from Him or any human , with His help you can let all this pain and anger go . Trust Him , talk to Him . Much love in Christ .
Addendum: It is true that according to Revelation; cowards will take their place in the lake of fire. We are also promised that when at trial the Holy Spirit will give us the words to speak ( Luke 12:12). We are as was said to the Corinthians the "Temple of the Spirit" ( 1 Cor. 6:19) if saved; and also He who has begun a good work in us will complete it ( Philippians 1:6).
It seems too obvious; I suppose to ask on a forum like this if you have faith in Christ and His atoning death and have confessed it to God and to men. This is the only way to truly receive and understand "agape" or unconditional love at the deepest level. I suppose the best example of an idolatrous culture is the Corinthians. There were clear moral lapses; to put it mildly there at all levels from illicit relationships; greed; pride and other vices. Paul was able to get them straightened out fairly quickly through rebuke from such a Godly concern as a parent.
I narrowly escaped being molested by a high school friend of mine. That was 40 years ago; and I found out recently that he passed away of bone cancer a number of years ago. I was also mentally abused as a child; and physically assaulted a couple of times; as well as had a lot of money and possessions stolen. Also went through a divorce with someone who claimed to be a Christian and married her lover. I was able at least to tell my dad that I loved him; and now am taking care of my parents in their advanced years while living at home.
I mention all this to say that I found through Christian counselling; prayer was perhaps the best antidote. Also; after a lot of angst during my marriage; I was given a study in the Book of James on how to be self controlled through proper spiritual disciplines; and although my life is far from perfect; the anger which would have me punch fists into walls hasn't caused me to flip out in say 10 years since I have been living on my own. The Lord has been faithful in providing me with solid fellowship; both in the past and now.
In terms of thoughts we have to realize that if we are saved; the enemy often infiltrates our minds; and we need to be able to shut him down; realizing that they often don't originate with us. He has promised to be our "front guard and rear guard" ( Isaiah 52:12; also see Psalm 91. Perfect love casts out fear ( 1 John 4:18).
Dear Dgjot, Why would non believers gather together in the name of Jesus? I don't think they would.
Matthew 18:19 says "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."
So Jesus says that if some of us gather together in His name in order to ask God for something, God will do it. Non believers would never gather together in the name of Jesus to ask God for something since they don't believe in His existence, would they?
Now if you mean christians from denominations that don't really know much about grace, salvation, new birth...who have a vague belief in God and Jesus and eternal life and may not been born again, because the church they belong to don't teach them or teach them faulse things, I think if they are sincere about it and have faith in their hearts that God will answer, then God will actually answer back. I have met many people that although don"t really believe in God, in a bad situation in their lives when asked God for help, they received that help. God is good. "...for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust" GBU
Truly I say to you, Whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
....Long ago Gen. 22:17..God Almighty made a promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven and God swore by this Promise...Thats y the sower of that incorruptible seed wants to sow his seed in our hearts...That we might birth Christ in our hearts the Son of MAN...That Child of Promise...Thats y Jesus refered to the H.G as the Promise the H.G. is the multiplication of very God...To whom his words came ( Jesus Words ) the living words it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken...And we are gona be his TEMPLE...Forever...And we are gonna marry the H.G. OUR SON... Isaiah 62:5...As a young man marries a virgin so shall thy sons marry thee...The son of man is our only son the H.G....Our 1st born from above.
Jesus cd not tell everything till all was fulfilled...He cd not offend till all was fulfilled..Thats y the scrip. is saying these things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes...The woman in Rev 12:5 could not give birth to the Children of Promise till that book was opened...Thats when they sang a new song..We will no more sing this churchanity song.GBU
In Acts 19:38,39, we read, "Wherefore if Demetrius, and the craftsmen which are with him, have a matter against any man, the law is open, and there are deputies: let them implead one another. But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful ASSEMBLY (ekklesia)." So here, we see the other use of the word, which the Bible translators correctly understood as not applying to the 'Church', but to a non-Church (legal) assembly.
But in Matthew chapter 18, Jesus is speaking to His disciples (verse 1), so as GiGi has shared, it can be accurately understood that this discourse given by Him, was a little insight to the future, i.e. in the administration of His Church, or Assembly, as the Holy Spirit had (or, was given) control & believers were added to it. When we look at this chapter, advice on conversion, humility, sin, conflict between the brethren & prayer are the topics the Lord brings up. Even as the Lord spoke to Peter in Matthew 16:18, that "upon this rock (the body of Truth) I will build my ekklesia".
Or should the word church recorded here by Jesus in verse 17 have another interpretation, such as synagogue etc?
Or is the word church mentioned here the correct litteral interpretation?
THINK ABOUT IT? This came to my attention this a.m. on 12/15/2022.
I enjoyed your comments on this Holy Sabbath Day, and thanks for sharing!
I also observe many people in the world choosing to ignore Jesus Christ and His Gospel of the Kingdom. It is very sad to see the rejection, but it coincides with much of the scripture which tells us so many times that "few people will enter into God's Kingdom".
Matthew 22:14
"For many are called, but few are chosen."
Luke 13:23-24
"Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them," "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."
Matthew 7:14
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
The emphasis coming directly from the mouth of Jesus saying "few there be that find it". If these bible verses don't move a Christian to "take notice" of themselves, nothing well.
Are we truly picking up our crosses and following Christ? Are we living our lives as part of this world? Jesus tells us that we can't do both!
Matthew 16:25
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
People need to take the bible to heart and NOT be lulled into thinking/believing they are (forever saved) while at the same time living their worldly lives.
Matthew 16:26
"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"
There are many false teachers, and preachers out there telling others that you can still live a worldly life and still have a "free ticket to heaven".
Any wonder why Jesus tells us over and over that FEW will be saved!
GB You
Only God knows what is in the heart of people, we cannot judge since many times we have been proved wrong.
When I actually believed in Jesus, God opened my eyes to see the truth, it was like there was a cover around me and somebody pulled that away and suddenly a bright light turned on and saw the world as it actually is, not how I thought it were, with a different perception. Although I knew all those things about faith and Jesus and eternal life and the Hebrew history from school, we get tought them in school over here, actually it was like we were learning some kind of mythology or ancient tales and stories, nothing really got inside our heart. We had a sort of vague belief about God. There are lots of people here that love Jesus Christ but they never heard of new birth, baptism in the Spirit, or they consider these were only in the early times, don't take place in the church any more. They worship saints and angels and Mary and many other things just because they were taught that this is the proper way to serve God. Many of them are born again but don't know it. Others think that they are OK since they don't steal, don't kill, as if only these are sins. Others especially the new generations follow the corruptive ways of the world because they think this is progressive now, Christianity is a past thing. If one tries to talk to them about Jesus the way they don't know, they reject him thinking that all those strange things coming from abroad are going to spoil their true(?) faith. I think its the same in all the southern Europe, Italy, Spain, southern France, Portugal, the Balkans etc. People love God but they are trapped in their traditions and denominations. In the North people are completely atheists. I once lived in England for a while and I was surpised that people never even mention God in no case. They don't know Jesus even as a story. How sad. People think they move forward but are moving toawards their distraction. God help us.
Blessed w/e.
If we cannot agree on an objective source of truth, then everything discussed would be considered subjective. There is no "plumb line" to test what each others says. I do not think that "everyone has their own truth".
I believe that, when it comes to spiritual matters, the Bible is the source of absolute truth and is reliably accurate and the measure for which all spiritual viewpoints are held up to. It doesn't seem that you believe this, so unless we can agree on what we accept as the fundamental and objective measure of truth, then I think it is unfruitful to engage in Scriptural conversations with another person.
Perhaps there are some others on this forum who would want to engage with you, but I have a check in my Spirit on this matter and so will go with the lead of the Holy Spirit. I wish you well. I encourage you to seek the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart and take hold of Him by faith.
Just noticed your reply. The Bible is correct. It never said the hearsay of "2 or more" as you believe. People's memories are subject to error and often people memorize hearsay which is wrong to begin with. Just because something was repeated many times during someone's upbringing doesn't mean it's correct. There are other examples of this where people have misremembered verses in the Bible. Example is people saying "Money is root of all evil" instead of "Love of money..." People may hear it in songs or movies, but doesn't mean its correct. What's interesting is people are more trusting of their own flawed teachings than the Bible itself. People are so quick to discredit God's Word and that's hard to see.
There is proof that the Bible has never changed- all someone has to do to prove the KJV hasn't changed is compare the text today to what it was 400+ years ago at its first printing. That is actually on this website and I checked and that verse hasn't changed. It's always said 2 or 3 and never 2 or more. It also shows many other translations which say the same thing. God's truth never changes; people's flawed memories and flawed hearsay does. But one aspect I do agree with is that this is a living Word, that God can reveal new things to us each time we read it through. His Word hasn't changed though and any time someone tries to attack its reputation or claim it has errors I will fight to defend God's word. God bless.
An example would be the current narrative surrounding the pandemic. There are many insightful physicians and scientists with differing perspectives. But those with perspectives that don't fit within the popular and allowed narrative, regardless of their peer reviewed research, are censored and worse. If we cannot have discourse about religion because the "other" disagrees with our views, we cannot grow.
I do understand and I am not offended. I just don't think we can have a meaningful conversation about Scriptural matters if you do not believe it is accurate and God inspired.
It seems that we are miles apart as to the inerrancy of Scripture and it being irrevocably inspired by God. Therefore we cannot
have a conversation concerning spiritual matters concerning Jesus and salvation when one party does not believe that the
Scriptures are inerrant and irrevocably inspired by God. this view inevitably leads to one choosing which Bible passages they will
accept as truth and what they will reject as truth according to their own individual criteria, life experience, and subjective
knowledge. I do not follow that viewpoint that you express, so I am exiting this thread.
In reading your post, you said that what everything that is living changes. However, God is ever-living and the Bible clearly says that He is changeless (immutable), the same yesterday, today, tomorrow, eternally so. Just wanted to clarify that.
James 5:16
"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
On Romans 2:11 onwards. The apostle is writing about God not showing respect (or, partiality) between Jews & Gentiles. Those who have sinned without having the Law (i.e. Gentiles), will perish not having received the Law (God's Laws to Israel). Likewise, those sinning having the Law (i.e. Jews) will be judged by that Law (& of course, they will fail, for the Law made no one righteous, but only showed their sinfulness). Only the doers of the Law will be justified. So, what Law(s) can be kept perfectly to justify us before God? None, for all have sinned - & the Law only revealed the sin & extent of that sinful condition to the Jew.
Only faith in Jesus can save both Jew & Gentile. Those who keep God's Laws acceptably, are those who have the Holy Spirit & who are living out their lives through Him & by His Power ( Romans 8:1; Galatians 5:25). Both Jew & Gentile who are saved through Christ, are no longer bound to the Law that only brought death, but live in the power & joy of the Holy Spirit, Who helps us live beyond the Letter of the Law, living according to the dictates of the Spirit.
Lastly, one can never do enough for the Lord. How much is ever enough? But, if you're a praying person wanting to use the opportunities God lays upon your heart or directs you to, then every place you go to & every person you meet, may be what the Lord wants for you to share something of His Goodness. Any sense of cowardice will disappear - for the Lord will be your strength ( 2 Timothy 1:7) & your mouth - remembering your witness & life will be the catalyst for someone to become serious about his eternal well-being. You may be God's man for God's special moment in another person's life.
Hi Dgjot. I'll just share on a few matters you raised.
On forgiveness & forgetting. I see 'forgiveness' as a matter of the heart, when one who has been unjustifiably hurt seeks to no longer hold that person accountable for the pain they've caused. The pain will still be there - only the Lord & time can bring healing, but to forgive someone simply means that you won't raise that painful matter again as your heart won't harbour hatred or grudge against another for doing that. To 'forget' the pain given, in most cases, won't ever leave, as that is a part of life's experiences that we retain. Some things we easily forget, especially those of a minor insignificant nature, but some things, even from childhood will always remain - & unfortunately, some of these will be painful & affect us even into adult years.
How does God forgive us? Does He even forget that we sinned against Him? We know that God's Forgiveness comes to us because His Son voluntarily took our punishment, paying for our sins that we could never ever pay for. But does God forget? If He did, then God wouldn't be Omniscient, as He knows & remembers all things that ever happened to us. But what God does do, is that our sins are cast aside, forgiven, & never held to our account, only because of Jesus' Sacrifice (remember Acts 7:59,60, when Stephen, as he was dying, asked God to not lay the sin of his murderers to their charge - in other other words, 'Lord forgive them', or 'don't charge them with this sin'. Peter forgave them & wanted God to also forgive them).
We might be cautious or even remain aloof from someone who has hurt us, but that doesn't mean that we haven't forgiven them, i.e. not holding anger, hatred or grudges. In John 2:23-25, we read that Jesus saw how many believed in Him by the miracles He did - yet, Jesus did not commit (or, entrust, have faith in) them, because He knew what they were like. But He still loved all of them & would always forgive.
I have a friend who is a big fan of that show Supernatural. It's as demonic as a show can get.
I have another friend who is into those "boy-love" novels and videos.
I have another friend who goes bar-hopping. They all believe in Jesus. They're sure they're "saved". This is the problem with a lot of "Born-Again" Christians. They misunderstand that we don't get to have it both ways.
Would Jesus wink at this wickedness and say, "Aw, go on. Have fun. I'll still forgive you. Just make sure to repent when you've had your fill." I don't think so.
They see nothing wrong with filling their minds with unwholesome nonsense. They really need to do some soul-searching and pray and ask God for forgiveness and turn away from those things.
Matthew 5:29
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
What Jesus meant (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that sometimes we will have to turn away from, cast off, throw away certain things (material things, ideas, relationships) and it will be as painful as plucking out your eye.
Speaking for myself, I smoked for 40+ years. I liked to smoke but I knew it wasn't pleasing to God so wanted to give it up.
I prayed, begged, apologized and asked for a Divine Intervention to quit.
God answered that prayer.
I went through no withdrawal, had no more cravings and suffered no ill effects. If I had to quit by my own strength, I would have never made it.
I look at what's going on in this world and cringe when I see/understand how badly we have all been deceived. Things we thought were normal or harmless fun were not edifying at all.
May the Lord give you solace today. Agape. Rich P
I narrowly escaped being molested by a high school friend of mine. That was 40 years ago; and I found out recently that he passed away of bone cancer a number of years ago. I was also mentally abused as a child; and physically assaulted a couple of times; as well as had a lot of money and possessions stolen. Also went through a divorce with someone who claimed to be a Christian and married her lover. I was able at least to tell my dad that I loved him; and now am taking care of my parents in their advanced years while living at home.
I mention all this to say that I found through Christian counselling; prayer was perhaps the best antidote. Also; after a lot of angst during my marriage; I was given a study in the Book of James on how to be self controlled through proper spiritual disciplines; and although my life is far from perfect; the anger which would have me punch fists into walls hasn't caused me to flip out in say 10 years since I have been living on my own. The Lord has been faithful in providing me with solid fellowship; both in the past and now.
In terms of thoughts we have to realize that if we are saved; the enemy often infiltrates our minds; and we need to be able to shut him down; realizing that they often don't originate with us. He has promised to be our "front guard and rear guard" ( Isaiah 52:12; also see Psalm 91. Perfect love casts out fear ( 1 John 4:18).
Matthew 18:19 says "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."
So Jesus says that if some of us gather together in His name in order to ask God for something, God will do it. Non believers would never gather together in the name of Jesus to ask God for something since they don't believe in His existence, would they?
Now if you mean christians from denominations that don't really know much about grace, salvation, new birth...who have a vague belief in God and Jesus and eternal life and may not been born again, because the church they belong to don't teach them or teach them faulse things, I think if they are sincere about it and have faith in their hearts that God will answer, then God will actually answer back. I have met many people that although don"t really believe in God, in a bad situation in their lives when asked God for help, they received that help. God is good. "...for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust" GBU
Is Jesus there among them even if the "believers" are believers-in-name-only? Also known as "Worldly Christians"?