Matthew Chapter 3 Discussion Page 5

To JOEL OSTEEN

Regarding your views on Water Baptism it cannot save a person. Please read Hebrews 6:1,2. It was one of the rites of of the Jewish Religion ( Numbers 19:7, Hebrews 9:10). Like circumcision, it was strictly an act of faith, and as Peter explains it is an a pledge of good conscience towards God.

For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9) and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( Matthew 7:7; John 14:17).

Repentance is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), as mankind follows after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Rev. 12:9).

It is only by revelation of God that people will come to know the true Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1), and only then will you be able to overcome the spirit of this world ( 1 John 5:4; Rev. 3:21) and learn what 'True Repentance' means, and how this whole world has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9). It should also be remembered that it is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14; Luke 13:23).

LUKE 15:10. LIKEWISE, I SAY UNTO YOU, THERE IS JOY IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ANGELS OF GOD OVER ONE SINNER THAT REPENTETH.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

To JOEL OSTEEN

When you visit our website we invite you to review the 'Letter of Introduction' posted on the 'Introduction' page of the website. It highlights some of our work. Please note that our website was visited last year by people from over 160 countries. There are a total of 193 countries throughout the world plus the Vatican and Palestine that are listed as observer states.

We did contact you Ministry on different occasions, along with several reporters at the Houston Chronicle to warn them of God's judgment of all the false churches and Ministries (Mega Churches).

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

To JOEL OSTEEN

We invite you to Google the article 'False Apostles and False Christs'. It is an article listed on our website and should come up as the first Listing on Google and welcome your questions.

It should be noted that in over 36 years of service we have never collected/received, solicited or requested donations. The gift of 'Life' was freely given and freely do we give to all those that believe ( 2 Kings 5:16; Matthew 6:26; 10:8).

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

Amen brother!

Comments by Alex about y Jesus was water baptised,it goes back to the O.T. Moses had said if a house has a leprosy or a scall it wd have to be washed with with the blood of a dove. The priest wd have to take 2 turtle doves and wash them by running water but 1 wd have to be a sacrificial dove and be killed and his blood sprinkled on the living bird which is the Church,Christ was our sacrificial dove thats y the dove descended on Jesus.Turtle doves are lovers just like Christ and the CHURCH are lovers.Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it ( the sacrificial dove ) . In Song of Solomon the 2 lovers are Christ and the Church but they refer to each other as having Doves EYES,Christ and his disciples answer to the 2 turtle doves that had to be washed by running water th Jordan was running water,John th bap. answers to the Hi Priest that was of the tribe of Levi, he did the baptism th washing. Song of solomon says while the king sits at his table my spicknard sends for as sweet smell, We are all in the house of Simon the leper we all are unclean but jESUS answers to the sacrificial dove that wd have to be killed and his blood sprinkled on the living bird th Church. Thats y JESUS was water baptised he answers to the sacrificial dove, thats y that dove descended on JESUS, AS TH SACRIFICIAL DOVE HE HAD TO BE WASHED BY RUNNING WATER, THE JORDAN WAS RUNNING WATER.All the disciples answer to the CHURCH THE LIVING BIRD THAT WAS SET FREE,Whom the son sets free is free indeed. But Jesus knew that they had all been water baptised But he tells them if i WASH thee not you will have no part with me which speaks volumes of a greater baptism coming with his blood the CROSS,you are made clean by the WORD i have spoken unto you. He tells his own disciples that had been water baptised, If I wash thee not you will have NO part with me. Which is H.G. BAPTISM, Even in the time of Moses without the shedding of blood there can be no remission Sin. Th Cross

Matthew 3:13-17

This was prophesy being fulfilled From the Old Testament.

Jesus was saying: let all righteousness be fulfilled.

13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

In the New Testament, they didn't always have water around to baptize new believers.

Some were water baptized, and others were not.

For some people it's a church and family celebration when someone is saved and wants to be baptized with their family around.

I came out of the occult and was born again. I had so much persecution by demonic spirits that tried to discourage me in mean ways. I went into a church and requested to be baptized to show Jesus I was serious about following Him only; and to show the demons that I had made my choice!!

If you don't furnish your spiritual house with the Bible every day... the demons come back to see if you're vulnerable.

Some of us need kindness and assurance that we are accepted into the family of faith.

A little Baptist woman held my hand and told me about 50 times, I was forgiven.

Don't judge.

The bible tells that water baptism means when we are submerged in the water we have died with Christ when we come out of the water we rise we Christ in to a new being reborn we are now in family of God with the Holy Spirit as our seal has Christians. Bless you.

Thank you Donna B!

I believe that water baptism is very essential. It is a public show that accounts for us walking in newness of life. Jesus was baptized and The Holy Ghost descended upon Him, followed by the voice from Heaven that said "This is My beloved Son..." That shows that the example was set by our Heavenly Father who was sinless. We all should strive to follow that perfect example.

Many times even in the present problems we are facing world wide (Covid-19), I wonder if we as believers finds it at all possible to take refuge in the words of God. For many years we read and preach about God's goodness and His ability to protect His people in these uncertain times, and I have seen so much fear among believers. My question is where is the Faith in God that we should be putting into practice in days such as these. We were fore warned that " Perilous times will come, this world is not our final destination. We are pilgrims, sojourners, that are passing through. Let us lift up our heads as The King Of Glory will soon return for His bride.

Matthew 3:2.

For a better understanding what it means to Repent we invite you to review the article 'Repent' on a world deceived.ca

Bob, I fully agree with you. John was indeed judgemental but too often we apply a negative connotation to that word. He had every authority to proclaim what he did, even as his coming was according to prophecy ( Isa 40:3). Even in Islam, he is considered a prophet of God (his Islamic name is Yahiya). So his authority was Scripture-based & his words were truly from God as they had come to pass, as proof of his appointment ( Deut 18:22).

I wonder whether the failure of Christians to speak forth to the Church & the world is because of this 'fear of being judgemental' attitude? We may not be perfect (neither was J the B: Mt 3:14) & we have not been appointed by God to prophet-hood status, but don't we have the authority of God's Word, on which we stand? I realize that correct interpretation & application of the Word also comes to bear upon us, but I believe there is too little evidence of believers using their God-given authority & standing to warn/remind/judge errant folk in their folly. And those that might be energized to speak up, are very likely suppressed, so that their voice is not heard & the status quo of blissful ignorance & serenity is preserved. What will be the state of the Church when Christ comes for her? There'll be a few surprises, for sure.

I'm very impressed with John the Baptist , with what he said to the Pharisee and others that in verse 12 . Is he not being judgemental? Oh yes he is ! But if we examine our selves first we can see clearly and judge right . John was the greatest of all the prophets according to Jesus . And we can see why . In this verse . Even the Jews considered him a prophet at that time . He was one powerful prophet . John reveals how severe Jesus will be in judgement in the future . In verse 12 . What's the point ? The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and should motivate anyone to get right with God , because even though God is love and mercy , judgement is severe and sure , if we settle for less than Gods way .

It so warms the heart and spirit, that we are like-minded, in agreement on the Holy Spirits ministry to us as Believers in Jesus. In a sense we can go into the Upper Room with Him, to worship and learn. He loves to reveal Jesus and prepare us for what comes next. Sometimes I ask myself, what is He doing in me today.

There is a passage where Martha was sitting at Jesus's feet, listening to what He was speaking. She gets scolded for not preparing a meal with the others. Jesus says something like, she has chosen the better portion.

That's why I try to show others what Jesus has said we are to be doing. Demonstrating our love for each other (as Gentiles) so that the Jews will see, wonder, and be envious of our relationship to our Beloved, our Savior Jesus, the long awaited for, Messiah.

There's this HUGE dynamic that very few people perceive. We're pounding on the scripture trying to excel past Jews who study endlessly; when it is the fellowship and brotherly & sisterly love, Jesus wants us to excel in. We're going to love them into the Kingdom by our love and obedience to the known will of God.

In Matthew 26, Jesus is having dinner with the Pharisees, elders, etc. Mary Magdalene comes in with this expensive pot of perfumed ointment. Read it. The Pharisees know Jesus will be arrested the next day! Yet they jump up and try to drag Mary out.

(This a memorial to her as Jesus said).

Jews still don't know they missed their Messiah! To this day. Although some of the returning Jews have become Christian in places where they lived.

Minister your love and worship to Jesus and all will be well spoken of you in heaven. There will be a reward for just loving, worshipping and not railing on Jews in public and in private. THEY will know Him by your LOVE for each other. NOT competition.

I apologize for preaching. I'm supposed to be having a quiet day. Thanks so much for your reply.

Just want to say, God Bless any of you who carry on this conversation (I must drop out of it now) - I def. don't mean it to divide our BODY (there is enough division) - it was just my own personal thoughts, not meant to be a matter of contention.

To the administrators of this site: I am thankful for and greatly appreciate it!

Sincerely,

KG

Hi Michael - I agree totally that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was not just for Jews back then - I meant that those in line to get water baptized by John were (most likely - I wasn't there lol) mainly, if not all, Jews. Once the Jewish nation rejected Jesus as their Messiah (in general - not counting Jesus' Jewish followers) and delivered Him up for crucifixion, He rises and His disciples get Hot on fire spreading the word here, there and everywhere -

and then PAUL really gets the ball rolling and spreads the gospel to the Gentiles:

( Eph. 3:8 Unto ME, who am less than the least of all saints, IS THIS GRACE GIVEN, THAT *I* SHOULD PREACH AMONG the GENTILES the unsearchable riches of Christ)

I just wanted to share my thoughts on water baptism and go no further, but I am so with you about the Comforter coming! and Jesus' disciples being beyond JOY when He arrived!!!

I guess though, I have to say - I believe, in this dispensation of GRACE - that when we are saved - at that moment -

we become "In Christ" -

( 2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore IF ANY MAN BE IN CHRIST, HE IS A NEW CREATURE: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new)

At the moment we are saved we are IN CHRIST - in other words, we are IMMERSED in HIM - and, as we all know, baptism is about being immersed (Some immerse in water - Jesus immerses/baptized us IN HIM - meaning we are IMMERSED/BAPTIZED at that moment in HIS HOLY SPIRIT -as opposed to His physical body)

So, in a nutshell, I believe we are 'baptized in the Holy Spirit' the moment we are saved - I know for myself, I never needed to speak in tongues to get set on FIRE

I believe 'Tongues' are actual earthly languages - ( Acts 2:6 -because that every man heard them speak in his own lang)

I Cor 13:8-10

whether there be tongues, they shall cease... but when that which is PERFECT (God's Word =The Bible) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (shortening verses because of space)

The Bible IS COME

Kathleen, you make some good points & they are almost a reflection of my grandfather's view on water baptism, where his opposition to it was so strong, that he forbad any of his children & wife to go through its waters.

And as much as I would agree with you on the 'greater' importance to be baptized with the Holy Spirit (& after all this is the hallmark of the believer, & that which seals & secures him/her eternally), what then do you make of the NT Scriptures that still demonstrate water baptism? Of course, we have Jesus' Own Command to His disciples in Mt 28:19,20 (& I give a few Scriptures relating only to water baptism); Acts 2:38-41; 8:38; 16:33; 19:1-6; 1 Cor 13:13-16. And these were not just Jews only but Gentiles as well. And in any case, once a Jew turns to Christ, Christian baptism is still necessary to demonstrate the act of conversion.

How do you interpret these portions?

The only occasion that I could anticipate that a Christian would not need to be baptized in water would be where there was no one (e.g. an evangelist or personal witness) to share the Gospel with the unbeliever, & that enquiring soul, from the reading of the Word & moving of the Spirit, receives spiritual re-birth. A good example of this are the Apostles, (except Saul who was led to the Lord by Ananias ( Acts 9:1-18)). We never see any testimony or reference by the apostles to their water baptism. Why not? Because they were baptized with the Spirit at Pentecost & were never led to salvation. So, it seems that the one that leads a soul to salvation should ensure (i.e. obeying the command) that water baptism takes place forthwith as a testimony of the great transaction. Sadly, our Churches pay little regard to this clearly defined order & folk are baptized according to their wishes & even decades down the road. There seems little sense to me in doing it this way & may just be a form of 'works' in case "I don't make it to Heaven".

Someone needs to tell the Baptist Churches, huh?

John the Baptist also baptized Jesus in water. As a dove the Holy Spirit pointed Jesus out. John prophesied, this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.

If you go back into Discussions history pages you will see many pages on comment on this subject: through Jesus and all of his disciples and Paul.

We cannot understand the Bible fully unless we have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That's why the Disciples were told by Jesus to await in the Upper Room.

The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Godhead. When He came into the upper room the guys saw tongues of fire. They had a unique supernatural experience that was witnessed by a lot of people. How do you know they were all Jews? This event flowed out into the streets, such was the excitement. I'm sure there were some Gentiles in the area. What are the odds on that? It says they heard their own languages coming from the disciples mouths. It was a city; all kinds of people were around to witness this and Hear it.

It's recorded in the Bible. Jesus wanted this to happen just as it did. He said the Comforter would Come! The disciples KNEW this was the manifestation of what Jesus said! They were beyond JOY that Jesus was with them and in them in a very real way.

They were not alone, fearful, anymore. They had Jesus with them and in them again.

Look in your encyclopedic index in your Bible and look at the list of what all the Holy Spirits ministry is to believers! One: HE is our TEACHER who HELPS us rightly divide the WORD of TRUTH. (I AM the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE). We need the Holy Spirit; and His Baptism.

If you are doubting about the gift of tongues; HE will not force it on you! It's for your edification. See? We have to learn from Him first. Be taught by Him. You have to study like a "student" and ask many many questions that are in your mind. And then you've got to get STILL before HIM and LISTEN to Him.

Hi Al

I'll share some of my reasons regarding baptism

Matthew 3:11 - I indeeed baptize you with WATER unto repentance

Who is "I"? It is John the Baptist. What is he baptizing with? Water. Why? For 'repentance' (reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs, which is accompanied by commitment to and actual actions that show and prove a change for the better.)

Who was John baptizing? Jews..What were they repenting of? Dead WORKS

( Matt. 3:11) But he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:

he shall baptize you with the HOLY GHOST (Spirit), and with FIRE

Who was John talking about? Jesus .So Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and Fire (Fire is definitely not water)

Then Ephesians 4:4-5 says:

There is ONE body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling;

ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism

1 = 1 Which baptism is it? by water? or By Fire(= Holy Spirit)?

If I have to pick ONE BAPTISM I choose Jesus'

Now, WHO had John the Bap. been baptizing? JEWS

Who did Jesus come for?

The Jews ( Matt. 15:24)

Who were the apostles first called to go to? The Jews ( Matt. 10:6)

So, Jesus and John the Bap. were just dealing with the Jews at the time (In fact, until He rose again - Jesus' ministry was primarily to the Jews - He even referred to the Gentiles as 'dogs' ( Matt. 15"26)

How does Jesus save? By Grace=NO more WORKS

How would the Jews get saved? By Grace, right?

They needed to turn (def. of 'repentance') away from depending on their works( Heb. 6"1) and depend solely on Jesus to be saved.

John baptized The Jews w/water to show they had repented from depending on the Law

The Gentiles never even knew about the law so they didn't need water baptism

Jesus didn't need the thief on the cross to be baptized by water



And so,water baptism is associated w/the Jews - & it was newly saved Jews who thought it was necc. for ALL, but Paul knew better ( I Cor. 1:17)

Sincer. KG

Why would you say it's a waste of time to baptize others when there are so many verses in the KJV that say you need to be baptized. Even Jesus said you needed to be born of the water to enter Heaven.

In Jesus I live and Trust GOD

Love

Mt. 3:5-9: As John the Baptist was baptising (unto repentance), some Pharisees & Saducees had also come to see the spectacle. John basically told them that you talk of repentance but you have no fruit to show for it. And knowing their beliefs that Jews claim to be the children of Abraham (i.e. they only have the right to enter Heaven regardless of how they live their lives), John, looking down at the stones about him, said that from these very stones, God is able to raise children to Abraham. John not only opposed their belief system but in a sense, was saying that even Gentiles would one day have the opportunity. And through Jesus' Sacrifice, all nations can be saved through faith in Jesus.

what is Matthew 3:9

"that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."

meaning

The power of baptism is that the baptisee repents of their sins and accepts Jesus Christ as their savior - not who actually does the baptizing. In the case of Jesus, he had no sins to repent of, but rather to acknowledge his righteousness and dedication to doing the will of God which was signified by the Holy Spirit descending on him.

The Bible says there is only ONE BAPTISM - Is it John's with water, or the Lord Jesus' with the HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT. Of course, it is Jesus' - when we trust the Lord as our Savior we are immersed in HIS SPIRIT. John's water baptism - was basically for the Jews - BEFORE Jesus' Crucifixion - to show represent they were 'turning away from trusting THE LAW to save them and instead 'confessed' their sins - knowing it was God who saves - not the Law. Conclusion: Water Baptism is NOT the ONE BAPTISM - it is obsolete and just gets one wet. Some people waste so much time focusing on Water Baptism - time that could be used to win other to Christ.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US (plural) make man in (OUR) image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain (2) shall be one (1) flesh?

It clearly explains the birth of christ and the purpose of his coming ..it offers the guide to salvation and encourages us to live like we are expected too and the importance of sharing Gods word .

A person to become a Christian have to repent his her sins, and be baptized deeply into water, as God relied on John, then John baptized people by immersing them in water Jordan river

There were two that hang on a cross with Jesus, the one on the right confessed and asked to be remembered, Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. He wasn't baptized. Luke 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, he said unto the sick of the palsy, I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.

One in purpose. Not one entity, as confirmed by this chapter.