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I also enjoy reading your full replies brother Michael,
It seems we see eye to eye. Like you stated that we are not commanded to keep a "Saturday", or certain day, Sabbath in the New Testament. As I stated Galatians 4:9-11 in my first reply to you in this thread. Which you just broke down with details to make it more understandable for those who may have not understood that verse.
Thank you very much for your time and posts as I very much enjoy conversing with other brothers & sisters in Christ. I look forward to seeing your posts here to help others in their walk with Christ.
Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
Indeed, I certainly agree with you that the Old Testament books are still important for Christians. Indeed, the Apostle Paul said that all scripture is beneficial. ( 2 Timothy 3:16) He also stated at Romans 15:4 that those things were written to teach us. Also, at 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 1 Corinthians 10:11, he says that those things were examples to us to teach us and warn us.
However, as far as the terms of a Testament or Covenant concerning the laws that we must obey, Christians should obey only the New Testament laws which are binding on a Christian. You cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new rental lease makes the old one obsolete. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.
Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the (Mosaic) law."
Luke 16:16 "The (Mosaic) law and the prophets were until John..."
Christians are not commanded in the New Testament to keep the Saturday sabbath and neither to keep a dominical sabbath (Sunday). There is no set day to keep. The only thing that is commanded to be kept is meeting together - that can be anytime during the week.
Hebrews 10:24, 25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
The Apostle Paul counsels against keeping any "day":
Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."
Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
Brother Dan, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
The old heaven and the old earth are symbols of the Old Covenant. The new heavens and new earth are symbols of the NEW COVENANT. The sea is also symbolic of:
Revelation 17:15 .... The waters (seas) which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea (remember Abraham was told the people would be as the sand of the sea), and I saw a beast rise out of the sea (multitude of peoples).....
WE all start our lives under the power of the prince of the air (Satan; serpent of the sea).
Isaiah 27:1 ....even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
Revelation 21:1 ...and there was no more sea (Satan was defeated at Christ resurrection ,the NEW Covenant.
Revelation 21:3 ...Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men....
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU?
1 Corinthians 15:55 O Grave where is thy victory? Accomplished at the NEW COVENANT.
Revelation 1:3 .....for the time is at hand....Fulfilled at Christ death and resurrection.
Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet..... But now we see not YET all things put under him.
We are in the DAY OF THE LORD. One day; that hasn't been completed YET.
We sure do have different interpretations of the same Bible....not saying you are wrong or right, just disagreeing with your assumptions.
I stated scripture that says God's law will stay in affect until the earth and heavens pass, and I stated the earth and heavens HAVE NOT passed yet....
You said: WHY HASN'T IT PASSED? And you listed the following scripture:
Rev:21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
The ending of this verse ends with: and there was no more sea.
We still have the seas...all the body's of water oceans etc. are still here!
If you continue reading Rev: 21:2-4
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
People on this earth are still dying, still crying, still in pain.....
We are still waiting for the Prophesy written about by apostle John in Revelation.....
Brother Dan, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto to you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot and one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Your comment was: the heaven and the earth has not passed ...yet
WHY HASN'T IT PASSED; natural eyes see what has always existed. When the new covenant CAME the old disappeared; BUT, you didn't naturally see it happen. You know because the WORD tells us.
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and first earth passed away....
When Christ died and was resurrected by SPIRIT all things became NEW.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be IN CHRIST; he is a new creature (CREATION); old things have PASSED AWAY; behold all things have become NEW.
Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to COME: and the people that shall BE CREATED shall PRAISE THE LORD.
Psalms 102:26 They shall perish, but thou (the word) shall endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture thou (the word) shall change them. and THEY SHALL BE CHANGED.
Brother dan, may christ in us grace us with his wisdom and his understanding.
1 corinthians 15:46 howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
the old testament was a shadow (natural). the new testament is the true (spirit).
the sabbath was a law that natural israel was required to keep. they couldn't; natural flesh cannot keep god's laws. since god is spirit; therefore, his laws are spirit. the new came so we can keep god's laws. we were crucified on christ cross with him. the life we now live we live by christ in us. christ is without sin. truth sets us free. the old testament sabbath was a day or rest. we being dead to the natural (flesh) can live every moment in christ (in rest, the true sabbath); he is doing all things for us. we can't keep the two commandments jesus gave us; he can. all of us have the throne of god and the cross of christ in us. if you are on the throne then you have christ back on the cross; but, if you are on the cross (dead), then christ is on the throne.
i believe in keeping the sabbath; but not the old.
ezekiel 36:27 ...and cause you to walk in my statutes...
psalms 92:4 for thou, lord, hath made me glad through thy work: i will triumph in the works of thy hands.
psalms 92:5 o lord, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.
psalms 92:6 a brutish (beast) man knoweth not; nor a fool understand this.
1 corinthians 15:32 ....i have fought with the beasts at ephesus .....
we should try to help one another to stay on track, i just thought you should take another look at that scripture.
i hope you would do the same for me.
christianity is not trying to win an argument.
it's about christ and his work on the cross.
and we are to shine light ""on him"" he's in the mist of the candle sticks. those lights should be fueled by oil, "holyspirit" this parallels with 2 cor. 3:3. fleshly tables of the heart,
and
hebrews 8:9-10. not according to the covenant that i made with their fathers in the day when i took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and i regarded them not, saith the lord.
for this is the covenant that i will make with the house of israel after those days, saith the lord;
i will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and i will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people:
the first covenant they were commanded to do.
"and they couldn't"
the second covenant they were commanded to be!! and they could through the power of the holyspirit. the laws of god written on their heart.
the first covenant showed the flesh was weak.
the second covenant shows it was victorious when christ was raised from the dead.
we're baptized into his death.
and his righteousness is imputed on to us. "that's positional sanctification, and it's a gift.
our practical sanctification is in our walk. the spirit guides us to walk as he walked.
again we're not under command to do,
we're under command to be! ( be holy because i am holy ).
the law is holy "but we're not", and keeping it couldn't make us perfect. it never changed the inner man.
the new covenant did. righteousness is in the heart, and so is sin. the old covenant was an outwardly act without a repentant heart.
Thank you for pointing out that Jesus summarized the commandments when questioned down to two of the most important things that we should do. Love God, and love others. So simple! I agree, and if we can be consistent in that, we will basically be living a good Christian life according to Jesus.
That was a timely word & testimony Mishael - thank you for reminding us again that the Holy Spirit still gives God's children gifts as you have received & shared & with an added blessing of interpretation of that tongue of praise. It should come as a reminder to us not to discount what the Spirit can do in us & through us, & to be very careful not to condemn His Gifts lest we be found to blaspheme Him ( Mark 3:28-30).
TO: ADDING or TAKING AWAY from the SCRIPTURES on Nehemiah 8
TWO COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS: You are exactly right, Matthew 5:16 (Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.) What kind of light are true, born again, Christians showing by fighting over a day. If we take our sabbath on Saturday, Sunday, or even Wednesday, it is sabbath to that person. Philippians 2:12 ( Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.) Romans14:5 (One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.) 1 Peter 3:8 (Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:)
I agree with you that we have the New Covenant now. Surrounding Jesus Christ our Lord and receiving the Holy Spirit of promise Ephesians 1:7-14. It seems we agree on everything. I read the book of Hebrews regularly. As stated that I just think the Ten Commandments are "good". Just a beginning. Not that we are under the law of the Old Covenant. As I believe brother Chris stated in a post that our righteousness is to exceed them who followed the law Matthew 5:20. Like in the statement I made as to where I strive to keep every day Holy not just one a week. So he who thinks the Sabbath should be on a Saturday really doesn't matter. Jesus stating that even being angry with thy brother is in danger or who just looks on a woman to lust after her hath already committed adultery Matthew 5:21-22, Matthew 5:27-28.
When Jesus Christ gave the two greatest commandments to hang all the law and the prophets. He was quoting Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18. Which also being stated by another were not of the Ten Commandments. Pointing to exceed the old law with the new law which is on our hearts and exceedingly vast.
We having been Blessed to receive the Holy Ghost from above whom is our teacher now. Having the Spirit of Christ in us to help us walk as He did, and follow after Him, as He is the only way to the Father. Living for the Will of our Father in Heaven doing what pleases Him. Producing good fruit in the Spirit. John 8:29.
If I had to choose which Testament is more important I would most definitely choose the NT. Though the OT has many, many, things that are still very important. Also things that are really of no avail to us. Just letting the Spirit guide us to the righteous and important things in the OT. Even with the Apocrypha books and the Book of Enoch. As they have things in them that connect directly to the teachings in the Holy Bible. Let the Spirit guide us to truth. Micah 6:8.
I really struggled whether to make a comment. I guess this is one we'll have to wait till we get to heaven.
I have spent wonderful Fridays with Messiah believing Jewish friends observing Shabbat rituals. It's beautiful. They are so reverent and welcoming.
I've had great experiences, from one faith to another. All different, but all done in a worshipful manner. Times, and cultures differ. If Jesus is the one being worshipped, I don't have a problem.
I was in Church at Passover with a mixed crowd: Gentiles and Jews. I was praying in an unknown language. Afterwards, the Jewish couple sitting next to me, asked, do you know what you were saying? I said no. They asked, do you want to know? I said yes. The woman said, you were praising God in Hebrew. Blew my socks down. I don't know the Hebrew language.
When I have prayed in the Spirit, with my spirit; I don't know what I'm saying. The Holy Spirit does: He gives the unction, and my spirit is refreshed. It's really an act of obedience for ME. Our carnal minds think it's silly because we don't know what is being said.
Everybody is different! It takes courage to follow the Holy Spirit, where he wants to go. I don't debate it. I just want to be where He is. He's the 3rd person of the Godhead; He performed His part in Creation. He raised Jesus from the tomb. He is all over the earth now bringing new believers to trust in Jesus. How can anyone not want to be a part of that?
It's pure trust.
Kinda like when they take your driver license picture. You want a good one to show friends. But we get what they give to us...sometimes a 45mph wind gust and no comb!
And just to add: I think that this 'rigorous' discussion should not put anyone 'off' as it could be vital for some to learn & discern what this matter is all about. They might be struggling with the same issue: about the old Law & of the Sabbath in particular. I feel that the threads (thus far) have been very amicable & understanding, even with some emotion expressed. And this is good to see the conviction of believers, when Christendom is filled with pawns without any conviction or understanding, led away by all types of teaching. May the Word of God bring us light on this very important matter. And of course, the Admins can certainly close the thread if they suspect wrongdoing. Every blessing brother.
Hi Mishael. It can't be argued in what you have just shared, as obedience to the Lord, a deep love for Him & to all people must be our focus & to where our energies are directed.
But in these threads you refer to lies a problem with correct biblical hermeneutics. Ordinarily, we can agree to differ on our understanding of the Scriptures without too much of a catastrophe (e.g. Christ's second coming, did Jesus actually spend three days in the grave, etc, etc.). But what we have here is about the applicability of the Decalogue to the believer in Christ, & in particular the 4th Commandment (which somehow takes a degree of precedence over the other nine), should be of concern to each of us. The apostles had to wrestle over this as it was important to keep the believers' new life in Christ distinct from the old life (if they were Jews) under the Law which revealed their sin, their incapability to keep the Law & which only brought death ( Romans 7:5,6). So it was never a case of whether we should obey God's commandments - we all must obey. It's a case of whether our appeal to obey is to what was the "ministration of death, written & engraven in stones" rather than to the "ministration of the Spirit" which is of greater glory ( 2 Corinthians 3:6-8) & for which Jesus died & ushered in the New Covenant with God. If righteousness (a believer's right standing before God) could be achieved by the Law, then indeed Christ has died in vain ( Galatians 2:21).
In other words, & with all concern, can a believer stand before God & claim obedience to the Ten Commandments & especially the 4th Commandment, & not expect rebuke? He might believe that he can stand with head held high, being sealed with the 4th, & then sees the Lamb that was slain Who put aside forever any cause for condemnation which came by the Law ( Romans 8:1-4). It's not about the beauty of God's Laws - it's about it's applicability & the Spirit's Work to reveal all of God's Laws to us & give us power to perform them.
ADDING or TAKING AWAY from the SCRIPTURES on Nehemiah 8 - 3 years ago
TWO COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS:
Matthew 22
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang ALL
the law and the prophets.
In Matthew 5, Jesus did a little refresh on what OT commands were still in force. However, if we keep the Two Commandments, we will fulfill ALL of the Law. LOVE LIKE JESUS.
This past week, I've seen the Sabbath, shredded every which way; everyone trying to be right on which day it is. I don't see Jesus telling people this is right, and that isn't. He was healing (working) people on the Sabbath. It really riled up those Pharisees and Sadducees. They wanted to kill Jesus for it.
Let's not be like those guys, ok?
We come together at Church Day, to Praise CORPORATELY, also to pray: heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, to set at liberty those that want to be free.
People gnawing and gnashing on when a certain day is, that some people get turned off on the whole scene. Jesus is not that way. HE Says, COME. Ask so it can be given and received.
I'm not saying to omit anything.
I'm saying to amend the spirit in which its given.
Pray about it.
I'm a street minister. I depend on the Church to be welcoming. To carry my Lambs and help them feel the LOVE OF JESUS. Tune your discernment to their needs during baby Christian hood. Help them grow up right.
This is how the BODY of Christ is supposed to operate. It's not something you get to pick, or choose to do. You're in, or you are out.
God will fill us up with Jesus Love and send us out to witness: COME SEE A MAN! WHO TOLD ME OF MY SORRY LIFE & HOW IT CAN BE BORN AGAIN!!!!
Stop "fighting" (wrangling) scripture. Do it in love.
You might like to know that the 2 greatest commandments summarizing the law aren't in the 10 commandments. These are separate. For instance the 1st of the ten commandments is to have no other Gods before Him, and 2nd one is to not make any graven images. The 10 commandments don't necesarily summarize all the commandments and laws, as there were hundreds, especially for Israelites in the form of moral law, civil, and cereminial. Matthew 22:36-40. Given the complexity, I think the Pharisee didn't expect Jesus to actually answer that question, but he did beautifully: love God and love others. This is basically the meaning and purpose of life which so many people search endlessly for in the wrong places. Just because Jesus summarized everything doesn't mean the details don't matter though. Obviously we are called to obey and follow God's commandments. Those who claim Christians shouldn't try or make any effort to because you 'can't' I think is a grave mistake and not what Jesus said: John 14:15
WORD OF CAUTION to people who remove things out of the Bible!!
Your soul is on the line.
REVELATION 22:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the PLAGUES that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
So for those who thinks it's ok to edit out stuff that they don't agree with.... that's their soul on the line that follows Satan to HELL.
Burn that Bible. Get an authorized edition. Don't act clueless. There's a difference between paraphrased and authorized.
The Book of Life is the one your name must be in, to enter heaven.
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and GREATEST COMMANDMENT.
Matthew 22:39 And the SECOND is like unto it, thou shall LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.
Matthew 22:40 ON these TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG all the law and prophets.
You listed this scripture addressing the 1st and 2nd Commandments, so I would think that you do believe in these 2 Commandments.
Jesus did say that these 2 commandments are the greatest of the 10. Also, Jesus didn't say the remaining 8 commandments are meaningless, and don't count. So if you believe in the first 2 commandments it is also very logical to also believe in the other 8 commandments. Yet, if I'm correct it sounds to me that you do not believe in the 4th commandment which relates to honoring the Sabbath.
The way I see it ....we can't pick and choose which of Gods commandments that we like. The bible is not a menu that lets us choose what we want so that we can live our lives in the easiest and least disruptive way. Following the bible and God's laws may be tough for us to do in this day and age. How many of us would rather be at a ball game, or golfing on Saturday (the Sabbath) probably many of us could be doing a lot of things we would like to do....rather than observing the Sabbath. I understand...but it doesn't make it right!
So the way I read your reply for Brother Earl - to me; it is that YOUR interpretation of scripture can be the only correct one, and anyone else's interpretation of scripture that doesn't agree with you is incorrect, including mine.
There is tons of scripture showing the need for christians to observe God's 10 commandments, and I've listed many in this thread.
In my mind the main scripture that solidifies this is Jesus speaking below:
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
This scripture is so simple to understand. Do you agree with Jesus? If you do, then his commandments stand, until the end of time, as he stated again here in scripture:
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Many of the commandments found in the Old Covenant are indeed repeated in the New Covenant. However, we really are obeying only the New Covenant - not the Old Covenant. You cannot have 2 covenants in force at the same time since they would contradict one another. Just as you cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new lease cancels the old lease. Please read Hebrews 8:7-13.
I am not under the 10 commandments given to ancient Israel and inaugurated by a ceremony between God and Israel. Please read Exodus 24:3-8.
I find 9 of the 10 commandments (Old Covenant) repeated in the New Covenant. So I obey the 9 commandments found in the New Covenant. I do not find the 4th commandment repeated in the New Covenant and thus I do not follow it since I am under the New Covenant and never does the New Covenant instruct the Church of God to keep the sabbath.
The Apostles being directed by God's Holy Spirit never instructed the Church in the Epistles from Romans to Revelation to keep the sabbath holy. Therefore, I do not keep it since it is not instructed to me to do so.
I hope that clarifies matter and invite your further comments.
The 10 commandments were the first of over 600 commandments given to the nation of Israel. It was inaugurated by a ceremony where the law was read, blood sacrifices were offered, and the people of Israel agreed to obey the whole law. See Exodus 24:3-8. This clearly was a covenant or contract between Israel and God via the mediator Moses.
The New Covenant was inaugurated by the mediator Jesus Christ by his shed blood and is between God and the Church.
See Luke 22:20.
Jeremiah 31:31-33 tells us that God would make a New Covenant. You suggest that the expression "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts" is referring to the Mosaic laws given to the nation of Israel. However, that can't be correct, since verse 32 clearly says that the New Covenant would not be "according to the covenant I made with their fathers".
If you sign a new lease with your landlord, the old lease becomes obsolete. You can't have 2 leases in force at the same time. They would contradict each other. You can't also have 2 Covenants in force since they too would contradict one another. One says circumcise your children (Mosaic Law) and one says it is not necessary to circumcise your children (New Covenant - see Acts 15.) See Hebrews 8:13.
The Bible differentiates between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ. The Law of Moses is the Old Covenant and the Law of Christ is the New Covenant - the Laws found in Romans to Revelation.
1 Corinthians 9:21 speaks about the law to Christ (the New Covenant laws of Romans to Revelation).
Galatians 6:2 also refers to the law of Christ. The law of Christ is different from the law of Moses.
God himself gave these new laws of the New Covenant to the Apostle Paul and the other Apostles to transmit to the Church in the epistles. These are the commandments that the Apostle John is referring to in 1 John 5:2, 3.
The Apostles never commanded the Church to obey the sabbath in all the epistles.
by your quote, and if your arguments stand on what you thought Earl said, you should examine the text.
Now quoting you...
""Thanks for sharing the wonderful scripture, it is better than sweet music to my ears!
Yes, you refer to ( THE LAW WRITTEN IN OUR HEARTS, IT IS THE SAME LAW THAT WAS WRITTEN ON THE STONE TABLETS.) The law that will last until heaven and earth pass.""
Now here is where the text is drawn from..
2 Corinthians 3:3 (KJV) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN "NOT" WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; "NOT" IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
If you read further on you will see what MINISTRY was written in stone.
2 Corinthians 3:7 (KJV) But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVEN IN STONES, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
My friend it was the ministration of condemnation!!
That same argument you're holding too is what the apostle fought against til death.
It's sad to see you fight against the truth.
I pray you reconsider all the scripture these brothers have given you.
You suggest that the commandments referred to in 1 John 5:2,3 are not the 10 commandments, but some other new commandments of some sort dreamed up by Paul and the apostles.
Jesus states the following:
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Jesus speaks the words directly from his Father:
John 12:49
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."
I read and understand clearly that the commandments referred to in the bible by Jesus and his apostles are the 10 Commandments. To believe otherwise is a stretch of imagination, and not backed up by scripture.
Thanks for sharing the wonderful scripture, it is better than sweet music to my ears!
Yes, you refer to the Law written in our hearts, it is the same Law that was written on the stone tablets. The law that will last until heaven and earth pass.
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
If we truly love Jesus we will keep his commandments.
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Jesus also reminds us:
Matthew 7:14
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Brother Dan, rather than go through all those points again, making this thread repetitious, Romans 8:1-4 shows us where the wonder of the New Covenant lies. And this "isn't a free ticket to sin" as you suggest. And I agree with you, "The scripture is about the Spirits Law - is the Holy Spirit residing in our heart that helps us to avoid sin."
In verse 2, we have a comparison: the Law given by God's Spirit or the Law given at Sinai that revealed sin & brought death. And Paul says that this New Law has freed him from the Old. So the question must be asked, "what is this new Law & how can it replace the old?" You've said that it "helps us to avoid sin". That's certainly the case...and more. The Holy Spirit Who has come to indwell us has only done so as a result of the New Covenant. No Covenant - No indwelling. The Spirit does much in a believer's life: apart from His baptism into God's family & sealing us to never be lost, He teaches us the holy requirements of our Father & convicts us when we err from the Truth & may need to discipline us when we're stubborn.
So does the Spirit's Law differ much from the Decalogue? Jesus gave us a hint in Matthew chapter 5. He spoke to His disciples of the "righteousness of the Scribes & Pharisees". And we know how 'righteous' they were: ensuring every Law was obeyed & their addition of the 'extras' making the Law burdensome to all. But with all that, the commandment was "Thou shalt not kill & Thou shalt not commit adultery". And the religious leaders were careful with that & ensured that all complied or else be punished. Jesus then spoke of the evil & intent that lay in the heart & that's where the commandments were broken.
Now to those with God's Spirit, we can no longer appeal to the Law of Sin & Death, for that will continue to enslave us & give us our due punishment. But through the Spirit, He gives to our hearts & minds the fullness of God's Laws which far surpass the Old. How can we then make any appeal to the Old?
I agree with you on not having to keep the "7th day Sabbath". Another verse I came across tonight to back that is Galatians 4:9-11. I don't know if I understand correctly your statement of "we are commanded the opposite". As I stated, my feeling, that to follow Christ is to be Holy as He is Holy as in 1 Peter 1:14-17, Hebrews 12:14. To strive to keep every day Holy retaining the Lord in us. That following love from a pure heart is what makes God our Father and Christ happy 1 Peter 1:22-23.
To the Ten Commandments. Like I stated I believe they are good and are throughout the NT, as to follow them, though all spread out. Here is one actually discerning it as a commandment of the OT Ephesians 6:1-2. Here are the rest in different places. Romans 1:28-32, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Colossians 3:1-10. As you are able to go through all those epistles of the NT and see it notes the same things the Ten Commandments tells to us to stay away from. Even more as some are in the Mitzvot laws. As stated there are a lot that are void though just letting the Spirit guide you, you can see the ones that are moral and righteous.
Love from a pure heart is above all and shall never fail Colossians 3:12-17. Walking in the Spirit producing good fruit for the Lord. To keep us from the temptations and lusts of the flesh which leads to sin. Which no one is perfect and may slip and fall. To be vigilant and confess our sins in prayer they shall be forgiven. Though we are to strive to stay away(repent) from sin in our walk with the Lord to be Holy in this temple He has Blessed us with.
Just to make clear if anyone may perceive I'm stating that "good works" is what saves us. That is not true and not what I'm stating. Though we are called by God through Christ to good works Ephesians 2:10. Showing our faith and newness of life in the Lord. All glory to our Father and Jesus Christ. Amen.
It seems we see eye to eye. Like you stated that we are not commanded to keep a "Saturday", or certain day, Sabbath in the New Testament. As I stated Galatians 4:9-11 in my first reply to you in this thread. Which you just broke down with details to make it more understandable for those who may have not understood that verse.
Thank you very much for your time and posts as I very much enjoy conversing with other brothers & sisters in Christ. I look forward to seeing your posts here to help others in their walk with Christ.
God Bless and peace be with you brother.
Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
Indeed, I certainly agree with you that the Old Testament books are still important for Christians. Indeed, the Apostle Paul said that all scripture is beneficial. ( 2 Timothy 3:16) He also stated at Romans 15:4 that those things were written to teach us. Also, at 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 1 Corinthians 10:11, he says that those things were examples to us to teach us and warn us.
However, as far as the terms of a Testament or Covenant concerning the laws that we must obey, Christians should obey only the New Testament laws which are binding on a Christian. You cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new rental lease makes the old one obsolete. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.
Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the (Mosaic) law."
Luke 16:16 "The (Mosaic) law and the prophets were until John..."
Christians are not commanded in the New Testament to keep the Saturday sabbath and neither to keep a dominical sabbath (Sunday). There is no set day to keep. The only thing that is commanded to be kept is meeting together - that can be anytime during the week.
Hebrews 10:24, 25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
The Apostle Paul counsels against keeping any "day":
Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."
Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
I welcome your further comments.
Good day, Richard.
The old heaven and the old earth are symbols of the Old Covenant. The new heavens and new earth are symbols of the NEW COVENANT. The sea is also symbolic of:
Revelation 17:15 .... The waters (seas) which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea (remember Abraham was told the people would be as the sand of the sea), and I saw a beast rise out of the sea (multitude of peoples).....
WE all start our lives under the power of the prince of the air (Satan; serpent of the sea).
Isaiah 27:1 ....even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
Revelation 21:1 ...and there was no more sea (Satan was defeated at Christ resurrection ,the NEW Covenant.
Revelation 21:3 ...Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men....
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU?
1 Corinthians 15:55 O Grave where is thy victory? Accomplished at the NEW COVENANT.
Revelation 1:3 .....for the time is at hand....Fulfilled at Christ death and resurrection.
Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet..... But now we see not YET all things put under him.
We are in the DAY OF THE LORD. One day; that hasn't been completed YET.
We sure do have different interpretations of the same Bible....not saying you are wrong or right, just disagreeing with your assumptions.
I stated scripture that says God's law will stay in affect until the earth and heavens pass, and I stated the earth and heavens HAVE NOT passed yet....
You said: WHY HASN'T IT PASSED? And you listed the following scripture:
Rev:21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
The ending of this verse ends with: and there was no more sea.
We still have the seas...all the body's of water oceans etc. are still here!
If you continue reading Rev: 21:2-4
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
People on this earth are still dying, still crying, still in pain.....
We are still waiting for the Prophesy written about by apostle John in Revelation.....
God Bless
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto to you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot and one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Your comment was: the heaven and the earth has not passed ...yet
WHY HASN'T IT PASSED; natural eyes see what has always existed. When the new covenant CAME the old disappeared; BUT, you didn't naturally see it happen. You know because the WORD tells us.
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and first earth passed away....
When Christ died and was resurrected by SPIRIT all things became NEW.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be IN CHRIST; he is a new creature (CREATION); old things have PASSED AWAY; behold all things have become NEW.
Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to COME: and the people that shall BE CREATED shall PRAISE THE LORD.
Psalms 102:26 They shall perish, but thou (the word) shall endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture thou (the word) shall change them. and THEY SHALL BE CHANGED.
1 corinthians 15:46 howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
the old testament was a shadow (natural). the new testament is the true (spirit).
the sabbath was a law that natural israel was required to keep. they couldn't; natural flesh cannot keep god's laws. since god is spirit; therefore, his laws are spirit. the new came so we can keep god's laws. we were crucified on christ cross with him. the life we now live we live by christ in us. christ is without sin. truth sets us free. the old testament sabbath was a day or rest. we being dead to the natural (flesh) can live every moment in christ (in rest, the true sabbath); he is doing all things for us. we can't keep the two commandments jesus gave us; he can. all of us have the throne of god and the cross of christ in us. if you are on the throne then you have christ back on the cross; but, if you are on the cross (dead), then christ is on the throne.
i believe in keeping the sabbath; but not the old.
ezekiel 36:27 ...and cause you to walk in my statutes...
psalms 92:4 for thou, lord, hath made me glad through thy work: i will triumph in the works of thy hands.
psalms 92:5 o lord, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.
psalms 92:6 a brutish (beast) man knoweth not; nor a fool understand this.
1 corinthians 15:32 ....i have fought with the beasts at ephesus .....
we will agree to disagree on that topic.
i'm just trying to seek truth and stand for it.
we should try to help one another to stay on track, i just thought you should take another look at that scripture.
i hope you would do the same for me.
christianity is not trying to win an argument.
it's about christ and his work on the cross.
and we are to shine light ""on him"" he's in the mist of the candle sticks. those lights should be fueled by oil, "holyspirit" this parallels with 2 cor. 3:3. fleshly tables of the heart,
and
hebrews 8:9-10. not according to the covenant that i made with their fathers in the day when i took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and i regarded them not, saith the lord.
for this is the covenant that i will make with the house of israel after those days, saith the lord;
i will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and i will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people:
the first covenant they were commanded to do.
"and they couldn't"
the second covenant they were commanded to be!! and they could through the power of the holyspirit. the laws of god written on their heart.
the first covenant showed the flesh was weak.
the second covenant shows it was victorious when christ was raised from the dead.
we're baptized into his death.
and his righteousness is imputed on to us. "that's positional sanctification, and it's a gift.
our practical sanctification is in our walk. the spirit guides us to walk as he walked.
again we're not under command to do,
we're under command to be! ( be holy because i am holy ).
the law is holy "but we're not", and keeping it couldn't make us perfect. it never changed the inner man.
the new covenant did. righteousness is in the heart, and so is sin. the old covenant was an outwardly act without a repentant heart.
god bless.
Thank you for pointing out that Jesus summarized the commandments when questioned down to two of the most important things that we should do. Love God, and love others. So simple! I agree, and if we can be consistent in that, we will basically be living a good Christian life according to Jesus.
God bless
TWO COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS: You are exactly right, Matthew 5:16 (Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.) What kind of light are true, born again, Christians showing by fighting over a day. If we take our sabbath on Saturday, Sunday, or even Wednesday, it is sabbath to that person. Philippians 2:12 ( Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.) Romans14:5 (One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.) 1 Peter 3:8 (Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:)
Thanks for that post and God Bless.
I agree with you that we have the New Covenant now. Surrounding Jesus Christ our Lord and receiving the Holy Spirit of promise Ephesians 1:7-14. It seems we agree on everything. I read the book of Hebrews regularly. As stated that I just think the Ten Commandments are "good". Just a beginning. Not that we are under the law of the Old Covenant. As I believe brother Chris stated in a post that our righteousness is to exceed them who followed the law Matthew 5:20. Like in the statement I made as to where I strive to keep every day Holy not just one a week. So he who thinks the Sabbath should be on a Saturday really doesn't matter. Jesus stating that even being angry with thy brother is in danger or who just looks on a woman to lust after her hath already committed adultery Matthew 5:21-22, Matthew 5:27-28.
When Jesus Christ gave the two greatest commandments to hang all the law and the prophets. He was quoting Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18. Which also being stated by another were not of the Ten Commandments. Pointing to exceed the old law with the new law which is on our hearts and exceedingly vast.
We having been Blessed to receive the Holy Ghost from above whom is our teacher now. Having the Spirit of Christ in us to help us walk as He did, and follow after Him, as He is the only way to the Father. Living for the Will of our Father in Heaven doing what pleases Him. Producing good fruit in the Spirit. John 8:29.
If I had to choose which Testament is more important I would most definitely choose the NT. Though the OT has many, many, things that are still very important. Also things that are really of no avail to us. Just letting the Spirit guide us to the righteous and important things in the OT. Even with the Apocrypha books and the Book of Enoch. As they have things in them that connect directly to the teachings in the Holy Bible. Let the Spirit guide us to truth. Micah 6:8.
God Bless you Michael
I have spent wonderful Fridays with Messiah believing Jewish friends observing Shabbat rituals. It's beautiful. They are so reverent and welcoming.
I've had great experiences, from one faith to another. All different, but all done in a worshipful manner. Times, and cultures differ. If Jesus is the one being worshipped, I don't have a problem.
I was in Church at Passover with a mixed crowd: Gentiles and Jews. I was praying in an unknown language. Afterwards, the Jewish couple sitting next to me, asked, do you know what you were saying? I said no. They asked, do you want to know? I said yes. The woman said, you were praising God in Hebrew. Blew my socks down. I don't know the Hebrew language.
When I have prayed in the Spirit, with my spirit; I don't know what I'm saying. The Holy Spirit does: He gives the unction, and my spirit is refreshed. It's really an act of obedience for ME. Our carnal minds think it's silly because we don't know what is being said.
Everybody is different! It takes courage to follow the Holy Spirit, where he wants to go. I don't debate it. I just want to be where He is. He's the 3rd person of the Godhead; He performed His part in Creation. He raised Jesus from the tomb. He is all over the earth now bringing new believers to trust in Jesus. How can anyone not want to be a part of that?
It's pure trust.
Kinda like when they take your driver license picture. You want a good one to show friends. But we get what they give to us...sometimes a 45mph wind gust and no comb!
It's all good. Love to all
But in these threads you refer to lies a problem with correct biblical hermeneutics. Ordinarily, we can agree to differ on our understanding of the Scriptures without too much of a catastrophe (e.g. Christ's second coming, did Jesus actually spend three days in the grave, etc, etc.). But what we have here is about the applicability of the Decalogue to the believer in Christ, & in particular the 4th Commandment (which somehow takes a degree of precedence over the other nine), should be of concern to each of us. The apostles had to wrestle over this as it was important to keep the believers' new life in Christ distinct from the old life (if they were Jews) under the Law which revealed their sin, their incapability to keep the Law & which only brought death ( Romans 7:5,6). So it was never a case of whether we should obey God's commandments - we all must obey. It's a case of whether our appeal to obey is to what was the "ministration of death, written & engraven in stones" rather than to the "ministration of the Spirit" which is of greater glory ( 2 Corinthians 3:6-8) & for which Jesus died & ushered in the New Covenant with God. If righteousness (a believer's right standing before God) could be achieved by the Law, then indeed Christ has died in vain ( Galatians 2:21).
In other words, & with all concern, can a believer stand before God & claim obedience to the Ten Commandments & especially the 4th Commandment, & not expect rebuke? He might believe that he can stand with head held high, being sealed with the 4th, & then sees the Lamb that was slain Who put aside forever any cause for condemnation which came by the Law ( Romans 8:1-4). It's not about the beauty of God's Laws - it's about it's applicability & the Spirit's Work to reveal all of God's Laws to us & give us power to perform them.
Matthew 22
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang ALL
the law and the prophets.
In Matthew 5, Jesus did a little refresh on what OT commands were still in force. However, if we keep the Two Commandments, we will fulfill ALL of the Law. LOVE LIKE JESUS.
This past week, I've seen the Sabbath, shredded every which way; everyone trying to be right on which day it is. I don't see Jesus telling people this is right, and that isn't. He was healing (working) people on the Sabbath. It really riled up those Pharisees and Sadducees. They wanted to kill Jesus for it.
Let's not be like those guys, ok?
We come together at Church Day, to Praise CORPORATELY, also to pray: heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, to set at liberty those that want to be free.
People gnawing and gnashing on when a certain day is, that some people get turned off on the whole scene. Jesus is not that way. HE Says, COME. Ask so it can be given and received.
I'm not saying to omit anything.
I'm saying to amend the spirit in which its given.
Pray about it.
I'm a street minister. I depend on the Church to be welcoming. To carry my Lambs and help them feel the LOVE OF JESUS. Tune your discernment to their needs during baby Christian hood. Help them grow up right.
This is how the BODY of Christ is supposed to operate. It's not something you get to pick, or choose to do. You're in, or you are out.
God will fill us up with Jesus Love and send us out to witness: COME SEE A MAN! WHO TOLD ME OF MY SORRY LIFE & HOW IT CAN BE BORN AGAIN!!!!
Stop "fighting" (wrangling) scripture. Do it in love.
Mishael
You might like to know that the 2 greatest commandments summarizing the law aren't in the 10 commandments. These are separate. For instance the 1st of the ten commandments is to have no other Gods before Him, and 2nd one is to not make any graven images. The 10 commandments don't necesarily summarize all the commandments and laws, as there were hundreds, especially for Israelites in the form of moral law, civil, and cereminial. Matthew 22:36-40. Given the complexity, I think the Pharisee didn't expect Jesus to actually answer that question, but he did beautifully: love God and love others. This is basically the meaning and purpose of life which so many people search endlessly for in the wrong places. Just because Jesus summarized everything doesn't mean the details don't matter though. Obviously we are called to obey and follow God's commandments. Those who claim Christians shouldn't try or make any effort to because you 'can't' I think is a grave mistake and not what Jesus said: John 14:15
God bless.
Your soul is on the line.
REVELATION 22:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the PLAGUES that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
So for those who thinks it's ok to edit out stuff that they don't agree with.... that's their soul on the line that follows Satan to HELL.
Burn that Bible. Get an authorized edition. Don't act clueless. There's a difference between paraphrased and authorized.
The Book of Life is the one your name must be in, to enter heaven.
You list the following scripture:
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and GREATEST COMMANDMENT.
Matthew 22:39 And the SECOND is like unto it, thou shall LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.
Matthew 22:40 ON these TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG all the law and prophets.
You listed this scripture addressing the 1st and 2nd Commandments, so I would think that you do believe in these 2 Commandments.
Jesus did say that these 2 commandments are the greatest of the 10. Also, Jesus didn't say the remaining 8 commandments are meaningless, and don't count. So if you believe in the first 2 commandments it is also very logical to also believe in the other 8 commandments. Yet, if I'm correct it sounds to me that you do not believe in the 4th commandment which relates to honoring the Sabbath.
The way I see it ....we can't pick and choose which of Gods commandments that we like. The bible is not a menu that lets us choose what we want so that we can live our lives in the easiest and least disruptive way. Following the bible and God's laws may be tough for us to do in this day and age. How many of us would rather be at a ball game, or golfing on Saturday (the Sabbath) probably many of us could be doing a lot of things we would like to do....rather than observing the Sabbath. I understand...but it doesn't make it right!
God Bless
I didn't misunderstand Brother Earls reply.
So the way I read your reply for Brother Earl - to me; it is that YOUR interpretation of scripture can be the only correct one, and anyone else's interpretation of scripture that doesn't agree with you is incorrect, including mine.
There is tons of scripture showing the need for christians to observe God's 10 commandments, and I've listed many in this thread.
In my mind the main scripture that solidifies this is Jesus speaking below:
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
This scripture is so simple to understand. Do you agree with Jesus? If you do, then his commandments stand, until the end of time, as he stated again here in scripture:
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
The heaven and earth has not passed....yet.
God Bless
Yes I believe you're right.
Hosea 12:10. I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
Thank you for your good words.
Many of the commandments found in the Old Covenant are indeed repeated in the New Covenant. However, we really are obeying only the New Covenant - not the Old Covenant. You cannot have 2 covenants in force at the same time since they would contradict one another. Just as you cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new lease cancels the old lease. Please read Hebrews 8:7-13.
I am not under the 10 commandments given to ancient Israel and inaugurated by a ceremony between God and Israel. Please read Exodus 24:3-8.
I find 9 of the 10 commandments (Old Covenant) repeated in the New Covenant. So I obey the 9 commandments found in the New Covenant. I do not find the 4th commandment repeated in the New Covenant and thus I do not follow it since I am under the New Covenant and never does the New Covenant instruct the Church of God to keep the sabbath.
The Apostles being directed by God's Holy Spirit never instructed the Church in the Epistles from Romans to Revelation to keep the sabbath holy. Therefore, I do not keep it since it is not instructed to me to do so.
I hope that clarifies matter and invite your further comments.
Good day.
Thanks for your comments.
The 10 commandments were the first of over 600 commandments given to the nation of Israel. It was inaugurated by a ceremony where the law was read, blood sacrifices were offered, and the people of Israel agreed to obey the whole law. See Exodus 24:3-8. This clearly was a covenant or contract between Israel and God via the mediator Moses.
The New Covenant was inaugurated by the mediator Jesus Christ by his shed blood and is between God and the Church.
See Luke 22:20.
Jeremiah 31:31-33 tells us that God would make a New Covenant. You suggest that the expression "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts" is referring to the Mosaic laws given to the nation of Israel. However, that can't be correct, since verse 32 clearly says that the New Covenant would not be "according to the covenant I made with their fathers".
If you sign a new lease with your landlord, the old lease becomes obsolete. You can't have 2 leases in force at the same time. They would contradict each other. You can't also have 2 Covenants in force since they too would contradict one another. One says circumcise your children (Mosaic Law) and one says it is not necessary to circumcise your children (New Covenant - see Acts 15.) See Hebrews 8:13.
The Bible differentiates between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ. The Law of Moses is the Old Covenant and the Law of Christ is the New Covenant - the Laws found in Romans to Revelation.
1 Corinthians 9:21 speaks about the law to Christ (the New Covenant laws of Romans to Revelation).
Galatians 6:2 also refers to the law of Christ. The law of Christ is different from the law of Moses.
God himself gave these new laws of the New Covenant to the Apostle Paul and the other Apostles to transmit to the Church in the epistles. These are the commandments that the Apostle John is referring to in 1 John 5:2, 3.
The Apostles never commanded the Church to obey the sabbath in all the epistles.
You may have misunderstood Earls reply,
by your quote, and if your arguments stand on what you thought Earl said, you should examine the text.
Now quoting you...
""Thanks for sharing the wonderful scripture, it is better than sweet music to my ears!
Yes, you refer to ( THE LAW WRITTEN IN OUR HEARTS, IT IS THE SAME LAW THAT WAS WRITTEN ON THE STONE TABLETS.) The law that will last until heaven and earth pass.""
Now here is where the text is drawn from..
2 Corinthians 3:3 (KJV) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN "NOT" WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; "NOT" IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
If you read further on you will see what MINISTRY was written in stone.
2 Corinthians 3:7 (KJV) But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVEN IN STONES, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
My friend it was the ministration of condemnation!!
That same argument you're holding too is what the apostle fought against til death.
It's sad to see you fight against the truth.
I pray you reconsider all the scripture these brothers have given you.
God bless you.
Now I believe that is some very good insight on those verses!!!
but I think Brother Dan missed it.
And there may be a lot more going on at that marriage hidden in the text.
Thanks.
You suggest that the commandments referred to in 1 John 5:2,3 are not the 10 commandments, but some other new commandments of some sort dreamed up by Paul and the apostles.
Jesus states the following:
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Jesus speaks the words directly from his Father:
John 12:49
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."
I read and understand clearly that the commandments referred to in the bible by Jesus and his apostles are the 10 Commandments. To believe otherwise is a stretch of imagination, and not backed up by scripture.
God Bless
Thanks for sharing the wonderful scripture, it is better than sweet music to my ears!
Yes, you refer to the Law written in our hearts, it is the same Law that was written on the stone tablets. The law that will last until heaven and earth pass.
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
If we truly love Jesus we will keep his commandments.
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Jesus also reminds us:
Matthew 7:14
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
God bless
In verse 2, we have a comparison: the Law given by God's Spirit or the Law given at Sinai that revealed sin & brought death. And Paul says that this New Law has freed him from the Old. So the question must be asked, "what is this new Law & how can it replace the old?" You've said that it "helps us to avoid sin". That's certainly the case...and more. The Holy Spirit Who has come to indwell us has only done so as a result of the New Covenant. No Covenant - No indwelling. The Spirit does much in a believer's life: apart from His baptism into God's family & sealing us to never be lost, He teaches us the holy requirements of our Father & convicts us when we err from the Truth & may need to discipline us when we're stubborn.
So does the Spirit's Law differ much from the Decalogue? Jesus gave us a hint in Matthew chapter 5. He spoke to His disciples of the "righteousness of the Scribes & Pharisees". And we know how 'righteous' they were: ensuring every Law was obeyed & their addition of the 'extras' making the Law burdensome to all. But with all that, the commandment was "Thou shalt not kill & Thou shalt not commit adultery". And the religious leaders were careful with that & ensured that all complied or else be punished. Jesus then spoke of the evil & intent that lay in the heart & that's where the commandments were broken.
Now to those with God's Spirit, we can no longer appeal to the Law of Sin & Death, for that will continue to enslave us & give us our due punishment. But through the Spirit, He gives to our hearts & minds the fullness of God's Laws which far surpass the Old. How can we then make any appeal to the Old?
I agree with you on not having to keep the "7th day Sabbath". Another verse I came across tonight to back that is Galatians 4:9-11. I don't know if I understand correctly your statement of "we are commanded the opposite". As I stated, my feeling, that to follow Christ is to be Holy as He is Holy as in 1 Peter 1:14-17, Hebrews 12:14. To strive to keep every day Holy retaining the Lord in us. That following love from a pure heart is what makes God our Father and Christ happy 1 Peter 1:22-23.
To the Ten Commandments. Like I stated I believe they are good and are throughout the NT, as to follow them, though all spread out. Here is one actually discerning it as a commandment of the OT Ephesians 6:1-2. Here are the rest in different places. Romans 1:28-32, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Colossians 3:1-10. As you are able to go through all those epistles of the NT and see it notes the same things the Ten Commandments tells to us to stay away from. Even more as some are in the Mitzvot laws. As stated there are a lot that are void though just letting the Spirit guide you, you can see the ones that are moral and righteous.
Love from a pure heart is above all and shall never fail Colossians 3:12-17. Walking in the Spirit producing good fruit for the Lord. To keep us from the temptations and lusts of the flesh which leads to sin. Which no one is perfect and may slip and fall. To be vigilant and confess our sins in prayer they shall be forgiven. Though we are to strive to stay away(repent) from sin in our walk with the Lord to be Holy in this temple He has Blessed us with.
Just to make clear if anyone may perceive I'm stating that "good works" is what saves us. That is not true and not what I'm stating. Though we are called by God through Christ to good works Ephesians 2:10. Showing our faith and newness of life in the Lord. All glory to our Father and Jesus Christ. Amen.
God Bless you Michael.