Psalms Chapter 138 Discussion Page 2

Daniel 12:9

Daniel 12:4

The persistence of memory. That voice needs to be caged. Once in a while, I will remember a beloved dog I owned, and feel my heart double pump.

I found a scientific solution, you will laugh, but it works: If I gently tap, with my left hand fingers (slap), the top front, left side of my head, a 2" wide x 3" back section from hairline, and lightly tap my head 10 times, the vibration of my skull manipulates the brain waves, freeing me of the thought. The taps stimulate analytical left brain, shutting down right brain creativity. I'll be giving a presentation at the Cleveland Clinic next week.....Ah haha. Don't knock yourself out.

Darren ,yes you are correct about memories ,i think this is one of the reasons faith is sooo important ,we have to belive 100 per cent that our sins are forgiven ,if we dont we can drive ourselves crazy with guilt ,i havent murdered anyone but before i was baptized i did a few things im very ashamed of ,knowing that i have been forgiven helps me not to torture myself over them ,also we remember all the times others have sinned against us ,i find its usually quite easy to forgive but the memory of the hurt some one has caused me can still be painfull even after ive forgiven them ,i have to make a conscieous effort to put past sins out of my mind ,those that i have commited and those that were done to me ,ive been forgiven and i have forgiven but sometimes the scars still sting a bit !

Thankyou brother dan , i needed that and i long for the day when God makes all things new .

Actually there was no single book call The Bible until around 300 AD.

Adam, Abraham, Moses, David all lived before Christ, BC, when much of the writings were on scrolls. Moses wrote 5 scrolls: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

As time went on, the holy men, the priests and Levites, identifies writings that seemed like they might be classified as Holy Scripture, and put them aside to test them. And here's the test they gave these writings.

"And the LORD said unto me [Moses],

'They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.'"Deu 18:17-22

The priests and Levites considered that the writings of Enoch and many other writings that today are referred to as the Apocrypha, did NOT pass the test that God gave to Moses. Consequently, they are not in The Bible, the canon of Sacred Inspired writings.

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2Pe 1:21

Oh no darren ! She wasnt abusive i promise ! Hahaha ! I wasnt looking for sympathy i promise ! She genuinely didnt belive in a 'devil' as such but belived that we had the choice to be obedient to God or disobedient and when we disobeyed Him we were the devil ,maybe im not explaining it properly but i promise she just didnt want me blaming some one else for my naughtiness ,when i was a child i knew a lot of adults who didnt belive in the devil as an external being who tempted us into sinning ,my grandad who had been a p.o.w. would say theres nothing so evil as people ,im inclined to agree but thats a different can of worms i dont feel like opening just now .

:) Thanks Darren. Run your race!

It's great to have the anabaptist wing in the house. This is part of God's kingdom, but not what I'd want to be resurrected into if you know what I mean.

Sacha,

That is awful, abuse. Your grandmother must have been in a lot of pain.

I have this theory about the cause of personal anguish: your memory. It reminds you of everything. Ever have a bad luck streak in sleeping. Toss and turn, sing the dumbest songs. Go to work crazy?

This question is usually posed because it's hard for mere humans to understand that something exists without a beginning.

But the truth is, God was not born. God was not created. God always was, is, and always will be.

"He lives forever, whose name is holy" ( Isaiah 57:15)

Everything current will pass. God will create anew.

Revelation 21:1-5

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Earl,

At the resurrection, we know about those dead in Christ, and about those who make it to the end, everyone is lifted up at the same time. I like the details of the saints below, do you know them?

-Like these:

Revelation 6:9-11 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



-Who are their "fellow servants" also their brethren that were killed like they were?

These:

Revelation 11:7-12 .........(12)"And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The 144,000 are the two candlesticks and the 2 olive trees that stand before God. They finished their testimony and are killed. They ascended to heaven in a cloud at the 7th trumpet to join Christ.

Good evening, Is not the Kingdom of God present now?

Earl,

Explain to me in a paragraph exactly what you are saying about Revelation, heaven and earth? Above and below during the 6th-7th trumpets? What do we do if it starts to get bomby outside? Can you conceptualize your thoughts to what you personally envision, and share that? The only scripture you listed that supports your stance is John 18:36, but you are taking Jesus out of context; He is speaking about His current reality, he's restrained. The rest of the scriptures carry little weight to substantiate a claim.



You claim this:

"no part of revelation is going to occur in the physical sense.

revelation is spiritual warfare for the kingdom of heaven.

revelation is completely symbolic."

I always counted the 7th trumpet "saints" as those resurrected in Christ. The earthly army of a transfigured Jesus Christ in His bright glory taking over the earth. It doesn't seem symbolic for God to have to go to all these lengths to do exactly as he has written, but he does so to fulfill prophesy, on earth. Earl, I'm not persuading you to change your mind, I'm just glad to be talking to you.

Why would God promise David that he would never lack a king sitting on his throne till Christ comes if the earth isn't going to be rewarded, renewed. Jesus Christ has an earthly throne to come down to.

"Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel." 1 Kings 9:5

Without the 3 evil spirits, we can be born again, saints.

Looking forward to your rundown of this age.





"no part of revelation is going to occur in the physical sense.

revelation is spiritual warfare for the kingdom of heaven.

revelation is completely symbolic."

can be understood only by faith

Earl.

See you at the 7th trumpet: "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." Rev 11:15

God is eternal and has always been in existence.

wen was god born

why were there some books, such as Enoch not put in the King James version of the Bible?

Darren, may the Spirit grace you with his wisdom and his understanding.

I'm not sure you understand the kingdom of heaven.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.

Luke 20: 35-36 But they who shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

(vs 36) Neither can they die anymore: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Revelations symbolizes how you obtain that world and the judgement the saints will bring upon the earth.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world?

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgement written: this honour has all his saints.

Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works until the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

(vs 27) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers, even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 3:9 Behold I will make of them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews (circumcised in the heart), and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Those in the kingdom of heaven are those who are going to rule over the earth symbolized in Revelation and explained in the prophets.

Sacha,

When Christ returns, the resurrected will spend a length of time repairing and healing the earth. I do not think "slavery" as we know it will be the mode of operation.

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD." Ezekiel 39:11-13 The house of Israel pulls all the weight.

When my dad, devout OT lover, was on his death bed, I asked him where is he going after he dies? He said "back into the universe."

Hi darren ,again with refference to Isaiah ch14 v 2 ,i just happen to be reading Isaiah and im up to ch61 and thought that v4-6 reminded me of ch 14 v 2 ? What do you think ?

Hello Earl,

Thank you for replying; these issues need to be discussed openly and readily.

Your premise is that Revelation, in conjunction with the prophets, is completely symbolic and won't manifest itself here on earth.

The Bible was penned for us, not heaven. If prophesies concerning warfare are going to be fulfilled in Spiritual heaven, and not earth, what's the point of our existence? How are we to overcome, make it to the end if the lessons are not in our physical realm? You may think it is symbolic, but the fact of the matter is down here on earth we are always on the brink. We've had 2 world wars etc, and are staring down the barrel of a 3rd.

So, why do I sense war is coming; the warning lights flash on my map. If you are correct in your approach, how is this madness ever going to reach fruition for the people of earth?

I have read what has been written, and have come to the conclusion that modern day Israel will be baptized by fire. We have a little ways to go, the 6th seal events will come to pass before the day of trouble. When time ends, the mystery will be finished, and both of us will understand what it was all about.

Darren, may the spirit grace you with his wisdom and his knowledge.

no part of revelation is going to occur in the physical sense.

revelation is spiritual warfare for the kingdom of heaven.

revelation is completely symbolic.

isaiah 9:5 now every (natural) battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this (spiritual battle) shall be with burning and fuel of fire.

isaiah 9:19 ....and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire....

isaiah 4:4 when the lord (a consuming fire hebrews 12:29) shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of (new) zion, and shall have purged the blood of (new) jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgement and the spirit of burning.

luke 12:49 i am come to send fire on the earth; and what be i (the fire), if it (the fire) be kindled already?

matthew 4:11 ....he shall baptize you with the holy spirit and with fire;

isaiah 9:18 for wickedness burneth as the fire (our god is a consuming fire).....

isaiah 10:16 .... and under his glory (us) he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.

isaiah 24:15 wherefore glorify ye the lord in the fires ....

isaiah 31:9 ....whose fire is in (new) zion, and his furnace in (new) jerusalem.

isaiah 33:14 .....who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burning?

where the fire is never quenched (our god is a consuming fire)

isaiah 42:25 therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle; and it (the battle) hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it (the battle) burned him, and he laid it not to heart.

ezekiel 5:2 thou shall burn with fire a third part in the midst of the (new jerusalem, christ in you).....

zachariah 13:9 and i will bring the third part through the fire ....

revelation 8:1-13

revelation 9:18 by these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire...brimstone...smoke....

hebrews 9:27

1 peter 4:17

The 6th seal leads to the 6th trumpet. Forgive me for the misgiving.

Ron,

One more point about the 6th trumpet which makes your notion not worth pursuing. When the devil is kicked out of heaven to earth, war starts immediately. Why? Because the devil only has a short time, 42 months, he placed the abomination the makes desolate, subdues his enemies to rule the world. Our leaders on earth will have planned this battle out, they will be ready to oblige the devil upon his arrival. Better run through the jungle, and don't look back to see.

Ron,

I'm not laughing at you, but it's so darn funny. The length you went to to let me know you were quoting the 2nd woe is past. You were reading the post 2nd woe. You got ahead of yourself, buddy. This is all so woeful.

As a credit to you and your brand of Christianity, you were very easy on me. That last part is priceless about 'hard to grasp', I mean you could have come down on me like a....oh, the 2nd woe. Ah haha. Sorry.

Where ever you go, may the spirit follow.

Darren

Missiles targeting N. America, Europe/allies will initiate the 6th trumpet (war) on earth. The allegories and metaphorical language describe what happens; the verses I gave you stem from the 6th trumpet, the closest scriptures to it.

I don't need to know the precise details about the devil being booted out of heaven when there's 16+ prophets in my head. I have a plethora of Biblical resources available that afford me resolve. I am satisfied knowing the the day of the Lord starts at the 6th trumpet, and anything beyond that is splitting hairs.

I have a feeling Revelation 6:12 will trigger the invasion of Israel. The same earthquake spot from the crucification, and 70 AD Roman invasion. The 6th seal leads into the 7th trumpet. The timing will be impeccable.

David ,you are definately not alone ,not for one second ,i also think that many people are afraid of the Truth and dont want to know about it because they think they will have to completely change their lives and give up everything that they enjoy and they dont want to do that , i enjoy watching films ,music ,reading novels even the odd glass of wine ,i know that all these things are just distractions and as long as i dont get too distracted by them its ok for me to enjoy them occasionally ,materialism is a big problem for a lot of people i think ,our whole society seems obsessed with buying bigger and better and more of mostly unsatisfying junk as far as i can tell ,i get genuinely sad when some one i know and like gets a bit obsessed with wanting the latest phone or a better car etc,if i honestly believed that that was all there was to life ,the getting of more stuff and nothing else ,i think i would put an end to it all .I have said to one or two people something like ,if you die tomorrow what use will all your stuff be to you ? Your family will either bin it or use it themselves ,whoever i say that to they look at me as if im the idiot . You are not alone David ,stay strong and be happy in the Truth ,no one can take it from you and no one can take you away from it.