Psalms Chapter 72 Discussion Page 2

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The Old Covenant encompassed the Whole Law completely, which Jesus fulfilled (both in obedience & according to the prophecies about Him). For us to now claim obedience to the Old Covenant & also receive the blessings of the New just cannot work: we're either depending on obedience to the Law to save us, therefore nullifying & despising Christ's Cross, or we give no heed to the old time-bound Law & put our faith in the glorious Work at the Cross, declaring that the Law (indeed) kills, but the Spirit gives Life: "not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious,which glory was to be DONE AWAY: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" ( 2 Cor 3:6-8).

For me, it's not "a gigantic stretch of the imagination to apply this also to cancel the 4th commandment". I 'cancel' out not only the fourth but also the other nine: laws given ONLY to the Jews only for a time & purpose. But for all, both Jew & Gentile, who come under the shadow of the Cross, we attain unto a higher 'set of laws': "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:2. And as we read in the Gospels, when Jesus spoke of the type of obedience that God requires, it always went well beyond the limits of the Ten Commandments. Hence, keeping the Sabbath holy went beyond its appointed day & requirements, it pointed to the perfect rest both believing Jew & Gentile could enjoy IN CHRIST, & not in the regulated Law. If one believes that it's necessary to strictly maintain the Sabbath of old, then we demonstrate a defective understanding of the whole Plan of God in sending us His Son & do despite to the Scriptures & that which was revealed to His servant, the apostle Paul.

Every blessing.

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Thank you for your response, Bro. Dan. So, as I gather, you do not make a distinction between the Old & New Covenants (i.e. the Law that was given & required of men (Jews) pre-Cross and what was accomplished & hence required of men (Jew & Gentile) post-Cross). You have well quoted Jesus' words & acts pertaining to the validity & obedience to the given Law and I have absolutely no problem in what He said & how you understand & apply it. The problem arises when the Cross comes to bear upon us now. The Scriptures you've shared have bearing on the Old Covenant, that which the Jews were under & Jesus clearly spoke about its validity.

Then the crucifixion took place which was much more than a payment of a penalty for our sins & a substitutionary sacrifice: it also made null & void the given Law, the whole Law, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" ( Col 2:14). Some suggest that this verse doesn't apply to the Ten Commandments but only to the ceremonial laws. They believe that those of us, who supposedly consider the commandments as of no consequence, are in error, but are in fact in error themselves.

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Rom 7:12. There was nothing wrong or defective in the given Laws: they were simply given for a time awaiting the better covenant: "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second." ( Heb 8:6,7).

First of all how times has Jesus forgiven Christians sins by grace, all the time . how many Christians have said I have forgiven that person but has never forgotten the situation not many. God's love of forgiveness is example for us to follow. Anyways we don't have the right to judge no-one. God bless.

I had a question in regards to Matthew 18:21-22. Perhaps people have thought about this before in regards to forgiving your Brother or Sister 70 times 7 - or an unlimited number of times if they repent. Where is it that Christians draw the line between forgiving someone for their sins towards you an endless number of times verses simply being used as a doormat for a person who has no inward intention of turning around and walking in the opposite direction? When does a Christian forgive and when does a Believer withhold forgiveness when sins seem to go on and on and on ....?

GTMok,

Thanks for sharing the scripture.

Yes, I agree with you brother. We should be helping each other always, even on the Sabbath, and everyday of the week, and in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus set the example for us to follow. So many times we get detoured, and thank God that we can read the Bible, and pray for understanding.

Sandra,

Concerning the 7th Day.

Most people use Sunday because they can't shake customs and traditions.

You are following the Sabbath day requirement because you feel compelled to.

The 7th day was established for ALL of mankind back on the 7th Day of Creation ( Genesis 2:2-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Exodus 34:21, etc. etc.) and was never abolished.

( Mark 2:27-28) "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."

If we believe in the Father and His only begotten Son, then we have Christ in us every day, not just one day per week. This new understanding is an enhancement of the 7th day, not the abolishing of it. It was made to last forever.

This is a day that God BLESSED and SANCTIFIED! Christ always honored the Sabbath. The Apostles kept the Sabbath after the death of Christ; look at Acts 13:14, 27, 42, 44, Acts 16:13, etc.

Pentecost is a holy SABBATH day; i.e. a day of rest.

In Acts 17:2 and Acts 18:4, Paul is continually feeding the people Scripture on the SABBATH.

Christ never abolished the Sabbath.

God never said anything concerning that fact, and if He wanted that day changed, He would have made it abundantly clear.

Have you considered looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls?

The Book of Enoch, in particular, reveals a 364 day solar priestly calendar.

52 (weeks) x 7 = 364

The calendar begins after the Spring Equinox.

Look at the first book of Enoch; specifically, ch. 72, and ch. 82 (column 27) are words concerning the ancient solar calendar.

I agree we are not under obligation of the old jewish traditional laws of the old testament like the various sabbath feasts, sacrifices and rituals etc. But it is a gigantic stretch of the imagination to apply this also to cancel the 4th commandment. Only Jesus or God can cancel one of the commandments. The commandments were written in stone, and will stand forever. God did not put the old Jewish ceremonial laws in stone - big difference.

God's law is the 10 commandments.

Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus observed the Saturday sabbath while here on earth. Yes, he performed many things to heal and help others on the Sabbath. In doing so he was teaching all of us that we are to help others on the sabbath. When Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath he instructed that certain things could be performed on this day. He DID NOT say to his accusers that the sabbath is no longer effective. To the contrary, he acknowledged it!

Mark 2: 27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Why would Jesus say that he is Lord of the Sabbath if there is no longer a Sabbath?

I'm not willing to follow the crowd today - that think there are only 9 commandments.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

God Bless.

Romans 3:31 is a great verse but looking at what Paul said earlier, i.e. "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference" (3:20-22).

A few things here: Paul was speaking to all there (both Jew & Gentile converts) yet some stumbled on this matter, particularly from Jewry who were once under the Law & were circumcised, which marked them as God's chosen. To those still applying the Law to their lives & putting themselves under it, are obliged to keep all the Law ( Galatians 5:3). And "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." ( James 2:10). But the Law was given to Israel, not only as God's Standard of living for them, but to show them that they couldn't keep the Law, rather they fell far short of it. Hence, each year animal sacrifice was made to cover those sins. But after Jesus' death & resurrection, those who come by faith to Him are no longer bound to the Law, as God's Gift to us was the only One to have fully kept (& fulfilled) its Holy demands.

So Paul makes a clear distinction: either you keep the whole Law & by it you will be judged: "as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law" ( Romans 2:12), or you take hold of God's Righteousness which comes by faith in Christ. There's no possibility of fusing the two together for they oppose each other. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace" ( Galatians 5:4). So the observance of the Sabbath day was a hallmark of Israel & they faithfully observed it. To make the Sabbath observance mandatory now means that we are no longer in the liberty of Christ but in bondage ( Galatians 5:1).

Google says: her name is Joanna.

Somebody should have told Jesus all this before he met with the disciples in John chapter 20. ()

who was Simon's wife's Mother Luke 4,38,39 she Ministered unto them

There is so much comment on Genesis in the past history pages, It's a shame no one Even goes and look at all that. :/

Scroll down to the 1-100 links. When you get to 99, then another 50 pages appears. Like Wow! Chris has written amazing teachings.

I'm not going to rewrite things I've already studied and posted.

Tomorrow I'll be in Prayer Request. Have a great night expounding.

Hi Sandra,

The best possible way to have a better understanding about which day is the right one and why most people go to church on Sunday, is to go back to the book of Daniel. Understand the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece, Rome and how the activities of the "little horn" that has a mouth and eyes and speaking blasphemy against the Most High.

What is blasphemy? Mark 2:7 "Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?"

The little horn according to Daniel 7:25 - "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

According to Exodus 20, the 4 commandment "Remember to keep the seventh day holy..." Exodus 20:8-11. The commandment has not changed, even Paul solidifies the same in the new testament, "we establish the law" Romans 3:31.

The little horn has usurped the prerogatives of God and in doing so he established his day, Sunday, as the day of his authority. The last day deception will be about the day of worship. Those who love God, & His law, will choose Saturday Sabbath as the day of His authority, but those who choose the devil's representative here on earth (the anti Christ) will choose Sunday sabbath (as they call it) as the day of his authority. It all boils down to in whom we rest (sabatismos), come what may. Even at the risk of losing our lives we trust the One who is able to resurrect us from death, Matthew 10:39

MATTHEW 12: (red letters)

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Jesus was teaching this. Where it says spirits; these are the evil spirits; or Demons. The demon of fear brings

tormenting demons along with him. A demon of Bondage captures people with addictions, like drugs, alcohol, sexual addictions like porn; the demon of Infirmity will wear a person down till they are very sick with all manner of diseases.

There are many names for them. I find it much easier to identify the with what Jesus taught about FRUITS. Witchcraft, sorcery, murder, stealing. Sometimes FAMILIAR spirits follow families and inflict old family curses on them: like for women who cannot bear children. Curses can be lifted with study to get information, and then prayer.

Rebellion is as the sin of Witchcraft. If your teenager is violent and profane: you know his fruit.

The prayer of faith will heal the sick; bind and cast out the demons to go into outer darkness and dry hot places.

Demons are invisible, but they can manifest frightening scary incidents. If you read horoscopes instead of the Bible "to get a word for the day", you invite occult demons into the house. Phone psychics, Quiga board games, etc. Get rid of all idols so God can bless you!

That's why Jesus said to GARNISH you/your House. You must have Bible inside of you! If you can quote scriptures like the Son of God...you can make demons leave. Put on the Armor that Jesus paid for with his Blood, and plead the Blood over the entire home.

Ephesians 6.

Mishael

Good day Dan,

Just to add to your comment, I also believe we aught to keep the seventh day holy, however when there is an opportunity to help someone in dire need on the Sabbath, we have to do so. After all, didn't the blind man end up believing in God for the good work Jesus did to him on the Sabbath ( John 9)? Whatever ye do, do it to the glory of God, 1 Corinthians 10:31.

At the end of the day we should be able to hear these words from our Redeemer, Matthew 25:31-40. Whether the good works were done on Sabbath, or any other day, for as long as the praise and worship of the beneficiaries are directed to God - that is all we can ever ask for.

Matthew 25:

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Saturday is the sabbath. Sunday is the Lords day. Jesus rose on a Sunday, why we use that day. Jews and others still use Saturday. All though, we should worship Him everyday.

TO SANDRA JAMES

Concerning our Ministry in Christ it should be noted that in over 36 years of service we have never collected/received, solicited or requested donations. The gift of 'Life' was freely given and freely do we give to all those that believe ( 2 Kings 5:16; Matthew 6:26; 10:8).

The purpose of our website is to show people how and by whom they have been deceived and what they must do to be reunited with the true and living God.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

TO SANDRA JAMES

You wrote that you want to follow all the commandments of the Lord.

History has proven that mankind does not follow the first three commandments. History has also proven that this whole world has been deceived as confirmed by the Word of God in Revelation 12:9. History has also proven that 'Religion' is the means that Satan is using to transform himself into an angel of light and an apostle of Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Rev. 12:9).

You can learn more how this whole world has been deceived by Googling our 'names' or the article "False Apostles and False Christs' or 'A World Deceived'. There is also a 'Contact' page for further communication. We invite you to review the 'Letter of Introduction' on the 'Introduction' page of the website. It highlights some of our work. Please note that our website was visited last year by people from over 160 countries. There are a total of 193 countries throughout the world plus the Vatican and Palestine that are listed as observer states.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

In the Gospels, read slowly and you will see that Jesus taught on the sabbath; healed the sick, infirmed , demon possessed/ oppressed, cleansed lepers.

Church can be an actual Church, radio ministry, tv ministry, Youtube ministry, etc.

Shut in seniors are not condemned for not attending a church and giving their tithe there. You tithe to the ministry that feeds your soul & spirit, that prays for you corporately, calls you at home. Some churches even have home visitation ministry!

If you dispute that; go have a good look at

Matthew 26:31-46 and

Messages to the Churches: beginning in Revelation chapter 2

I think these matters are going to be reviewed at the Bema Seat (Judgment) of Jesus Christ. Rewards will be given and rewards will be lost, to BELIEVERS.

Hi Sandra,

This is a quick summary for New Testament Christians who want clarifications of the "Lord's Day" (Sunday) vs the Old Testament "Sabbath" (Saturday).

The Sabbath was a ceremonial day given to Old Testament Jews to keep. New Testament Christians (Jews and Gentiles) do not follow the old carnal, beggarly, religion of the Jews because the fulfillment of those things are in Christ. This is the same reason Christians do not worship in a Temple made with hands but instead worship the Lord in their hearts. ( Rom 14:1-23; 2 Cor 3:6-18; Gal 4:1-31; Col 2:14-17).

The answer to this question (and all others) are in the KJV Bible. There is a false religion that promotes Sabbath Worship. They state that Sunday Worship is "The Mark of the Beast", but they do not know their Bible and reject what the New Testament states about the Sabbath and about the Lord's Day. Try my words and all others with God's Word. ( Rom 3:4)

Hebrews is a book of the Bible that exalts Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of the Old Testament legal systems. Jesus also teaches us throughout the Gospels that the thousands of rules in the Old Testament are kept with two primary Laws which are basically: "Love God" and "Love Your Neighbor" ( Mark 12:30-36). Keeping these two rules in Christ fulfill the whole law. Further detail of how to do this is throughout Scripture, but no man can keep these laws perfectly, that's why we need Christ.

Paul (the Apostle to the Gentiles), taught us to come together regularly and to keep the "Lord's Day" (the day Christ arose from the dead). This is the first day of the week. Christians have met throughout the New Testament and throughout History on the first day of the week, which is Sunday. Our Sabbath/Rest is in Christ, He has fulfilled the Old Testament laws which we and no other man can. (Heb; Acts 20:7; I Cor 16:1-2; Rev 1:10)

Christians come together on Sunday to keep the New Testament Doctrine not to keep the Old Testament Ceremonial Religion given to the Jews.

The best reason to worship on Sunday is to celebrate Jesus rising from the dead on the first day of the week ( Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20).

It is not a requirement to honor a particular time of worship because Jesus said, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." ( Matthew 18:20).

Colossians 2:16-17

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Galatians 5 declares our liberty in Christ, for if we are justified by law we are fallen from grace. Ironically, the Pharisees worked so hard to maintain the Sabbath that it became oppressive. Many still work to establish their own righteousness, not submitting to the righteousness of God (only found in Christ Jesus) Romans 10.

Hebrews 4 is an excellent lesson on rest for today.

Hi Sandra,

This is a common question- I've seen several comment threads about it before and there's one now on this site:

Link

I'm sure there are other perspectives, but this shows at least one of them.

Matthew 5:17-19

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I have a question. I am doing my best to learn more about the sabbath day and what we are to do and not do on that day. In the bible it says the 7th day (Saturday) is the Sabbath. So My question is this, Why do most of the world use Sunday, the first day of the week for the Sabbath? I need help with this one, because I truly want to keep the commandments of the Lord. Can someone please explain?

Why would you desire to be under bondage to the curse of the law when Jesus Christ has redeemed us from said curse? (Galatians chapter 3).

Hi Adam, In those circumstances that you just outlined...in my opinion, it is not a Sabbath violation. People helping other people on the Sabbath is similar to what Jesus did. If you have to work to feed your family ok. There is 24 hours in a day, hopefully all the people you mentioned can still dedicate some time to still observe the Sabbath and pray and honor God. God will know, and God will make the judgement call. God Bless.

If someone's work is helping people (like a pastor, doctor, walmart greeter) and they work on the sabbath do you think that's not a violation, then?

Hi Adam, Yes Jesus did observe the Sabbath, and he taught us that there are logical exceptions, and good works that can be performed on this day. But these exceptions should not be an excuse to disregard the Sabbath, make the Sabbath another day, or minimize it within the list of 10 commandments.

There are exceptions of many things that can be performed on the Sabbath as demonstrated and taught by Jesus. These are sensible things, are circumstances like helping others, and addressing things that are emergencies or require immediate help. Feeding animals, or milking cows, helping others that need immediate attention and failure to do so would be neglect.

So yes it is true, we are taught by Jesus in many instances not to neglect anything requiring our help on the Sabbath, but at the same time he didn't cancel the importance of following the the 4th commandment, and keeping the Sabbath Day Holy. God Bless.

Dear Dan,

I'm replying to your comment on the sabbath. While I agree that it would seem strange to follow only 9 of the 10 commandments, Jesus did treat the commandment about the sabbath differently than the others and there is scripture evidence that suggests the sabbath is not equal to the other commandments.

The reason is Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath himself! If he were alive today and you saw Jesus heal someone or do some 'work', would you accuse and judge Him of it? That's what the Pharisees did and Jesus rebuked them. So, Jesus made a clear point that it's ok to do good work on the sabbath. Mark 2:27. There are also interesting verses like Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5. This shows the original reason Israelites needed to observe the Sabbath: Deuteronomy 5:15.

So, did Jesus fulfill the sabbath or did he not?

Not sure why so many people seem to be confused about the sabbath day, it is Saturday, the seventh day of the week, and is a day of rest, no work, and a day to reflect on God, pray, and give thanks. God gave this sabbath day to man, it is for us to rest and give thanks and regenerate our body and sprit and to draw closer to God.

Lastly, it is the the 4th commandment that God gave to us. I value and honor all 10 of God's commandments. It is the law! Jesus while on earth honored the sabbath day. It is Gods Law....and Jesus said in Matthew 5:17

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Let's put it in another way, are you willing to keep 9 of the commandments, and ignore one - the Sabbath? I'm not.