Revelation Chapter 11 Discussion Page 2

Rev;11 if you read it and observe the happenings in the world you will see that it is actually happening. The two witnesses are the Muslim people who lost there power, and now they will be destroyed by the beast.

The Holy Spirit is not around during the great tribulation, because, understand first that man brings all the miseries and poverty war,and famine disease flood and heavy typhoon to himself. He attracts it , because he choose evil works than righteousness, bringing death to himself. the Holy Spirit can not come to a person who does not accept GOD LMIGHTY.

AND THE TRIBULATION is man made as it has always been. Man creates this war and ,whoremongering idolatry, hence we are very close to the great tribulation

Precious friends, look likes "Part I" did not get posted, so here it is:

Will God "rapture" the church out before the great tribulation? I believe By "studying God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided," we can ask HIM, "What Saith The SCRIPTURES"? Amen?:

Part I

PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure:

(A) God's TWO Different programs, Rightly Divided

(B) Distinctions Between GREAT GRACE Departure and Second Coming

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our COMFORT And Consolation. Amen. ( 1 Thessalonians 4:18)

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(A) God's TWO Different programs, Rightly Divided:

Time Of JACOB's {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming, is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom ("ages" past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God's "Earthly Kingdom" Purpose From "the foundation of the world" ( Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied "since the world began" ( Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21)

Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That DIFFER:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST, Ending God's Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God { Current = "But NOW!" } (Romans through Philemon!)

God's "Heavenly Hidden" Purpose Before "the foundation of the world" ( Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret "since the world began" ( Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9)

to be continued in Part II...

I long for the day of the Lord when the haughty get lowered, with a flame on every face. I understand what happens that day, I'm not taken by surprise, unlike those who think it to be a good day. I've had it up to my nostrils with the stench of US and world corruption, murder and mayhem. When God visits the backsliding whole house of Israel, their spoiling and treachery will come to a violent end. Esau, with God on His side, will be brought forth to obliterate Jacob to dust. I bet you've read it many times without understanding that the prophets were talking about us. So the day of the Lord will come, and the abomination of desolation will deliver fire from the south to the north, fulfilling God's Word.

Everything you hold dear about America, Jesus greatly despises. You stand in opposition to those that dwell in heaven. No matter how bold your words are, they fall short of what's written. Mystery Babylon America runs the show with her allies in crime, Europe, otherwise known as Babylon proper. Devices will darken every kingdom. The whole house of Israel used to be the head, but have since transitioned into the tail. When America/Israel bombs Iran's blossoming nuclear facility ( Revelation 6:14), know that ( Revelation 6:12) will soon follow. Do you notice that the 6th seal, vs 12, kick starts the 6th trumpet, day of the Lord? It's gonna be the greatest show on earth, bringing baldness and clean teeth. You should let go of her, come out of her, stop defending her.

( Revelation 6:12) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Count me among them that break out in song when America's plot to rule the world from Jerusalem for a thousand years gets its due comeuppance. Good riddance 'greater Israel project'.

"God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided," Lets God "Say It":

Part III

The Second 'prophesied' Coming

Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That DIFFER:

The PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure, According to TheHeavenly'Mystery!':

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:

CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! ( Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel, And With The Trump of God! ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will BringWithHim {those who Were With Him In Heaven},partOf His Own, those who are "asleep In JESUS!" ( 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13)

(4) CHRIST Descends WithOnearchangel, Will resurrect those asleep{in 3)}First, and Then, we "which are alive and remain," {which Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all "incorruptible, And Caught Up" together to meet The LORD in the air {NOT "all the way to the earth!"}, in the "twinkling of an eye!" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53)

(5) CHRIST "Gathers His Body" To HIMSELF, to Take them To Heaven {OPPOSITE of earth}... ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1, 2; Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body, By The Head Himself!... ( Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12; 1 Corinthians 3:7-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25)

to be continued in:

Part IV God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!

Part IV God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... ( Ephesians 5:27)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father, In Heaven, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen! ( 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22; 1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2)

Thus, we do "Know the order, and realize our place according to the grand scheme." = Today is GOD's PURE {Gospel Of} GRACE {Light} 'Offered' to all 'INDIVIDUALS,' and WHEN 'it ENDS' With HIS Great GRACE Departure {'Removing' ALL HIS 'ambassadors'}, only THEN Will Fall:

God's {OPPOSITE of GRACE} JUDGMENT In The Time of JACOB's TROUBLE {Tribulation, GREAT tribulation And Wrath in Woe, Dread, Terror, And DARKNESS}, for "ISRAEL And The UNbelieving Nations!"

Thus, question: Precious friend, WHY do you "DESIRE what is NOT our place according to the grand scheme"? ( Amos 5:18)

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LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD, Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope ofGlorification When You COME To Finally GATHER us HOME! Amen.

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our "place In The Grand Scheme"?:

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9) = Grace/Mystery 'fellowship,' today, Current, "But NOW!" Amen?

Precious friends, Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, Edified, And "COMFORTED With THESE Words Of God's Truth!" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:18)

Thank you brother Earl for many encouragements.

The 2 witnesses are not 2 people, and they are put right in front of your face, in several incantations. Who's sealed from death 42 months from both houses? Look a little closer at the definition of their description, they're there.

Please do not say that God will "rapture" the church out before the great tribulation, or anytime other than at the end. Does it make sense that at the great tribulation that God seals the saints on earth against anti-christ's rule, while "rapturing" out sinners because we profess to be Christian's? You are appointed one death. Do you think God would "rapture" billions of Christian sinners, and leave His elect to battle to the death with anti-christ? That notion is absolutely preposterous, non-Biblical and has zero chance happening. You are conflating doctrines with man-made ones that have no merit. You didn't study it let alone think it through.

The first resurrection ( Revelation 11:12) takes place at the seventh trumpet when the mystery of God is finished. "Raptured" Christians are not part of the army (saints) standing on the hill with Christ, they are no where to be found in Revelation 14:1. If you were "raptured" where did you go that you're not part of God's army? Misleading people about a pipe dream has drawbacks in the eyes of God. Stop perpetuating a popular, yet unsubstantiated lie through false faith and poisonous divination. Christian's that think too highly of themselves will be greatly disappointed when darkness comes. Both the righteous and the wicked will die like they have in previous wars. Know the order, and realize your place according to the grand scheme.

Hi , I just wanted to say , that he comes as the anti-Christ , a Jesus wanna be , the great deceiver, I do not believe that he an his fallen angels will be killing people that do not worship him ,.. but you are absolutely right on one thing, a lot of people will certainly be fooled an follow him , it's the election that will not , an they will be delivered up , for a witness / testimony of the holy sprit , the only 2 people that will be killed by them is the 2 witnesses,..

peace

Amen and Amen, Brother Carleton.

I have a serious problem with the idea that taking the mark condemns you to hell. Are these survivors Christian's that should know better than to take the mark, but do so because they are lukewarm? Either way, you will take the mark cause your flesh is weak. We are human, corruptible, and as such we do sin that Christ has already covered on the cross, so what's going on here? Why are you so confused to misrepresent scripture, so it makes sense to you? Why can't you connect the dots using what God gave you?

You will take the mark to avoid being shot at, tortured, stabbed or killed. The ones taking the mark will do so to survive, their families, that's a natural response. If you don't the take the mark, you'll die of want, so why not kill yourself to save yourself? Killing yourself is a sin, but it's better than the mark, right? This amounts to false fear mongering, misinterpreting the end times, plain and simple.

Now listen to this: the refusal of the mark is addressed specifically towards the one hundred forty four thousand sealed saints from twelve tribes of Israel. They are the only ones strong enough to not take the mark. I know you never ever knew this truth before, and don't try to say you did. Just be glad you know now, and don't forget where you learned it, either. Everyone else during the great tribulation will be eating their portion of anti-christ's meat.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The last mark of the beast may be unbelief, where the salt has lost the saltiness.

Revelation 14

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive HIS MARK in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the WRATH of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

If the Christian's true love is Jesus, then they as a members of the faithful bride, will not look for another husband for their protection.

If the two witnesses are the Word and the Spirit of Jesus Christ (we know Jesus is at the right hand of the Father and in the beginning the Word was with God) , the Bible teaches that Christians will be eradicated from the earth by the Beast.

So the Word and the Spirit would no longer deal with those who take the mark of the Beast, because they are damned to Hell.

What if it was the Soviet Union that died a mortal death on Dec 25, 1991 and within 2 decades rises up to become a beast known as the Russian Federation? What would you do when this Russian beast obliterates America and Israel to dust? Truth is stranger than fiction.

Revelation 13:3

WHAT IF the first beast in Revelation is Fascism/Communism- which was wounded by the sword in WWll, yet lives-

and the second beast is technology(the first Apple Computer was sold for $666.66-Google it) which has given the corrupt power for the first time in history to monitor every living person on the face of the earth, and can make the image of Fascism and corruption (originated to attempt to restore the Roman Empire through Benito Mussolini)?

The second Beast(Technology) can make the image of the 1st Beast, which was wounded by the sword and did live(WWll was lost and Benito Mussolini hanged, yet his followers continued on) speak, and there is a movement now all over the world to comply with a mindset and hate is directed toward Christians the same way Hitler directed it towards the Jews. The second Beast will have the power that all who will not worship the image of the first Beast to be killed, and no one will be able to buy or sell, unless they have the mark of the 1st Beast(Fascism) which is the number of a man.

Think about it.

And when Christianity is no longer preached, and the Spirit of God no longer pricks the hearts of the wicked(the two witnesses) the world will celebrate and send gifts to one another, and suffer not their bodies(the churches) to be buried.

What if? Just sayin.....

Judy,

In my opinion, we are currently in tribulation which started Sept 11, 2001 (fifth trumpet)

The Great tribulation starts at the sixth trumpet (you will not miss it like the others).

The Holy Spirit will be there to comfort the besieged through it all..

Gerald Gods spirit and power are always around He is Omnipresent.

John 14:16

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will SEND UNTO YOU from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

On the day of Pentecost, the Disciples in the Upper Room, Received the Holy Spirit. ACTS 2. You should read all of that passage. Jesus promised. The Disciples were joyous. The event spilled out into the streets.

The Holy Spirit is given to THOSE who receive Jesus as Savior and Lord. He is the 3rd person of the Godhead! And Jesus by going to the Cross made it possible to be baptized by the Holy Spirit.

When the believers are caught up to the clouds with Jesus, the Holy Spirits ministry on earth after that will be only for those unsaved people that pray for salvation, AND DO NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST. (That mark will have GPS tracking)

People you love; tell them how to receive Jesus now.

Mishael

Hi Judy, I'm going to say up front any time we discuss "the tribulation" or the book of Revelations how ever many people you have discussing them that's how many opinions, beliefs, interpretations you are going to have. With that being said let me say if we carefully look around us today I think it's safe to say we are living in tumultuous or "pressing" times which is what tribulation means in the original Grk. form of the word. Will the Holy Ghost be around? If God is (around) or has anything to do with it(pressing times) then yes. Will an individual FEEL that Spirit is another matter altogether. I know the word says in Gen. "that God's spirit will not always strive with man..." now before all you Bible scholars start "stoning" me (I use the term loosely) and shouting "that was Old Test.! God was talking to Noah....!" yes that's true however "as it was in the days of Noah so shall it be when the Son of Man returns", I believe Jesus said that. Suffice it to say I would (personally) not want to be around if and when that happens. Lets live our lives now," walk in the Spirit...." Gal. 5:16 and if ( or when ) tribulation comes I'll have nothing to worry about but if I'm still here when God raptures His church out of here, well I'd be a little worried. Hope this Helped, God Bless.

Where is the Holy Spirit during the tribulation

Harley

Yes, The kingdoms of THIS world (Devil's world) are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever. Rev. 11:v.15

Consequences:

Revelation 11:v.18

18 And the NATIONS were angry, and thy wrath is come - GOD's WRATH-, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou -GOD - should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should DESTROY them -THE NATIONS- which destroy the earth.

Rev. 13:v.2-5

2 ... and the Dragon gave him his power (the Dragon gave to the Beast of sea his Power), and his Seat, and great Authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were WOUNDED to DEATH; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the Beast. (of sea)

4 And they (THE WORLD of Devil) worshipped the Dragon which gave power unto the Beast(of sea): and they(the World fo Devil) worshipped the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make WAR with him? (Yeah, who is able to make WAR with the Beast of sea? Revelation 13:v.11-14 : - 11 And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a Dragon. (in fact a false lamb, a false messiah of the Jews, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah, future ruler of Israel and its main devilish religion, the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism). 14 - And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast;(of sea) saying to them that dwell on the earth (Israel), that they should make an image to the Beast, which had the wound by a Sword,-the Word of GOD- and did live.

Rev. 2:v.26-29

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father

( Revelation 11:14-15)

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Is that woe quick enough for you?

Had posted a comment earlier not noticing two other posts on same verse 4,wanted to let Debra n Darren know im not saying what there saying is not legitimate,because it is...

The Bible is like no other book, to where

One story has More than One meaning.Then theres Parallels of one story through out.

one person will see one meaning another see's another meaning,or Parallel.then add to it representations of Actuals..

When a person seeks out Gods word,there like tree growing in a field

its All good

For a reader of the book of Revelation,it can really help,when you understand the Principles of how its wrote.

It Reveals All,from the beginning of time to the end.Differant realms,things visible n invisible to mankind,Representations and Actualities. Some are Unveiled mysteries,meaning humans wont know exactly until it happens,then its aahh...

In one condensed book..That is whats happening now,its here..

A example of what mentioned would be like in verse 4.John see's two olive tree's and two candle sticks.

The olive tree's and candle sticks,are/were actual physical representations of two actual physical people,not humans,in a differant realm.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

What is your perception of what will happen in the world between now and Revelation 11:15? If you think space aliens are coming, say so. A few sentences will do.

God bless.

The 2 olive trees and 2 candlesticks are the 2 houses of Israel (Israel and Judah) that stand before God. These are the witnesses, the elect, the 144,000 sealed 42 months from death prior to the 6th trumpet.

These witnesses are also depicted in allegory as the woman in Chapter 12 that hides in the wilderness from the dragon. The woman has God's protection, exactly like the 2 witnesses/144,000. They are one in the same. vs 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

That is a very good catch, Debra. Advanced thinking. Way to put the clews together.

I believe the 2 witnesses are the 2 olive trees and the 2 candlesticks are this. Olive trees are the Jews and the gentiles, Jesus is the roots and the 2 trees are grafted together. The 2 candlesticks represent the Jews and the gentiles giving light to the world, teaching the word of God to the lost. The Jews are the ones who believe Jesus is the Messiah and the Gentiles believe Jesus is the Messiah. We are the 2 witnesses, the born again believers Jews and Gentiles.