Revelation Chapter 11 Discussion Page 3

Can you explain these Clouds and what are the "clouds of witnesses" - Jesus taken up in a cloud Also , what is meant by God all in all as in Ephesians 1:23 - thanks and blessings to all

Interesting. Can you explain your reasons?

You're absolutely right. The shoe fits perfectly. Wow. You know what this means?

I know who the two witnesses are.

David Irving

Ernst Zndel

Revelation 11:2 FORTY TWO MONTHS

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the (spiritual) temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city (new Jerusalem) shall they tread under foot forty two months.

Forty two months is the three and one half years of Christs ministry. John the Baptist to Jesus crucifixion.

Daniel 12:11 And the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that MAKETH desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (forty two months or three and one half years).

Did you notice that the abomination that MAKETH desolate was set up at the same time the daily sacrifice was taken away and replaced by the ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice of Christ.

After Christ resurrection the treading under foot or the (spiritual) holy city (new Jerusalem) by the Gentiles became a lost cause.

Revelation 17:14 These (horns) shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them....(spiritual warfare) 2 Corinthians 10:4 Isaiah 4:4 Isaiah 9:5

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the BEAST, these (horns) shall hate the whore, and shall make her DESOLATE and NAKED, and SHALL EAT HER FLESH, and BURN HER WITH FIRE.

Perhaps these horn parallel or are a shadow of the horns of the alter in the old testament.

Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their (horns) hearts to fulfil HIS WILL, and to agree, and give THEIR KINGDOM unto the beast, until the WORDS OF GOD BE FULFILLED.

Matthew 24:14 states: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

These 2 witness's lie in the streets dead after there testimony for 3 1/2 days. Notice how Revelation 11:9 states "togunes" and "Nations" will witness this?

We are the first generation that could witness this based off current technologies we have today: Internet, television, phones and other means to watch live events from anywhere in the world.

This should also make you thinnk of the technology available to implement the Mark of the Beast that will be ushered in around this same timeframe.

Get ready folks, Jesus is coming! Have you been born again with the spirt of God? If not humble yourself before the Lord and ask for his forgiveness. He loves you and forwarns you of things to come to keep you from the torment of hell.

We can take 2 paths in this life: straight and narrow to Jesus or wide and broad to hell. Its your choice.

I believe that the Word of God and the Spirit of God may be the two witnesses spoken of, and that God will use them as he did with John the Baptist- who Jesus said was also Elias, if the disciples would receive it.

The world cannot stand to be condemned for their wicked ways, and they are already seeking to remove God from their memories. They will rejoice when the last Christian dies- as is foretold with the scriptures concerning the Beast, who will cause all who will not receive his mark to be killed.

I believe that the world will rejoice when they no longer have to hear the Word of God preached, and no longer feel the condemnation they feel for their wickedness. I believe that the two witnesses may well be the Word of God and the Spirit through the preaching of the word and the testimony of those who are born again.

And the world will leave the churches standing, and when Christ comes back, and we are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, fear will fall upon them.

All the scholars who are looking for the Ark of The Covenant should read Revelation 11:19. It clearly says the Ark is in Heaven ,, not on this earth. Just my thoughts on that subject.

I am so blessed to read your post. You are exactly right on scripture. The magnitude of the amount of people that will miss out on the Rapture (caught up in the clouds) hits me like a train often.

Many will be saved but they have to try and figure out how to survive. I cringe when I think of a martyrs death. They have this just born again faith in Jesus, and must face trying to survive an enraged Thing, called Antichrist...who is now in-dwelled with Satan. His aim will be to kill as many humans as he can. New believers along with unbelievers.

Satan is an unbeliever of sorts. He thinks he can oppose Gods plans to the very end.

I cannot express any stronger to those are "sitting on the fence of indecision", to run to the arms of Jesus NOW. Be sure of Who you believe in. He is strong enough to protect all those whom He loves. You.

All of this is not about God hurting those who doubt. It's about being rid of Satan once and for all. He will live in a place that is beyond Horror. He will be chained up.

Once, long ago I served satan as an astrologer. My craft deceived people. I did not know that doing it carried a Death Sentence. I SAW Jesus through a vision; and He looked like Jesus in Revelation 1:14. No words can describe the shock and the sense of Dread. I chose to run to Him, rather than to run away. I made the best choice. He is everything the Bible says He is. He is Love. He is also Righteous Judge. Everything written will be Accomplished! right down to the last period in Rev. 22:21.

Do Not reject so great a Salvation. If you've never once read the Book of Revelation yourself; maybe you should.

God blesses you every time you read it. Revelation 1:3

God is not out to "get you" and make you suffer. He is out to Love You! Quit running away from Him and turn around and run into the arms of The Lover of your Soul.

He is your Shelter. He will Protect you.

Do it now. Don't put it off. Mishael

Jesus said the Tribulation period will be the worse time in world history. Therefore nobody can even imagine how horrible it will be. People who want to survive the Tribulation have no idea what they are attempting to survive. Nevertheless, we know there will be survivors because of the grace of God. I think those that believe in the tribulation but have not accepted Christ are reacting in the flesh. In fact, without Christ as our Savior, that is how man reacts always; in the flesh. The Lord tells us in his word there will be 144,000 Jewish men who are SEALED with the Lamb of God and are sent throughout the world preaching the gospel. Because they are sealed they will not be harmed by all the tribulation going on around them. Hence, supernaturally protected. When Christ returns to the earth, we read how the angels gather Christ's elect from the four corners of the earth to Jerusalem because why? The King has returned! I believe many post tribulation rapture people get this confused. If you really want to know what happens to believers just before Tribulation strikes read the book of Genesis and the discussion the Lord has with Abraham just before he destroys the cities of the plains which include Sodom and Gomorrah. Read the righteous and wicked debate. God always rescues his people before he carries out judgment. Tribulation will be world wide with no place to hide. Hence, God sealing the 144000 to preach the gospel. Notice also he seals the men to preach, no mention of sending women to preach. This time in history will be the "mother of all bads" because not only his God pouring out his wrath upon the earth for mankind's wicked deeds but also Satan is now confined to the earth after the war with Michael and his Angles. And Satan is enraged and takes it out on Israel and any Saints on the planet. We know there will be Christians because after this all starts and the Christians are gone, many will believe be saved and die a martyrs death.

Those who have miraculously survived the full Tribulation, without being Marked by Antichrist,

They will be caught up at Jesus's Second Advent; when at this time He will set feet on the Mount of Olives in Israel, and a massive earthquake will occur.

All efforts to reach the Lost, have been concluded. Jesus will TAKE THOSE that prayed to Jesus during the Tribulation to be born again. (They have escaped taking the mark, have not worshipped the Beast, were not martyred).

My question is: why wait it out? The Tribulation period is not going to be favorable for anyone trying to survive it. There will be earthquakes, tsunamis, huge lack of fresh water to drink, house-sized hailstones. When the wormwood star hits earth: climate will be crazy cold. It poisons the water world wide. (Google that!) It's going to dispatch all global warming plans to fix it, in one second. All the money people were taxed to fix G.W. Will go psssst! Gone. No food, no water, no heat, no internet.

It's not a Survivor Type television program!!! People thinking this is a challenge of a lifetime WILL often wish they had gotten saved. If they don't genuinely accept Jesus as Lord and Savior; they will still die in their sins. No one in heaven or on earth will know of their victory. Enough said of that lunacy.

Please forget every super hero movie you ever saw. Everyone in Hollywood will face the same choices as everyone else. No mark on the forehead or hand and they too, will be taken to the guillotine centers.

Even, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, GNN, employees will face a day of reckoning or temptation. Antichrist hates everyone.

Antichrist can't and will not be able to help our idols. He is set to die at Armageddon.

All the questions have been answered till I'm blue in the face. If anyone is planning on sticking it out, get a Bible so you can avoid insanity. Try to be saved. John Ch 3.

Mishael

Copy this & send it to friends, amen.

I have a question. When will the tribulation saints be resurrected?

This is great..Im have my kids watching it..this real history..much love

Those under 20 years old were taught too for forty years in the wilderness. Yes, those over 20 years old did not cross over The Jordon, except fir Joshua and Caleb. The Law versus Grace. Law was given to understand grace. Jesus Christ fulfilled the law in His Crucifixion at Calvary and His Resurrection. Yes, we continue to confess sins that we commit after being Born Again in Christ. How does one become Born Again Sealed with The Holy Spirit Through Jesus Christ? If only we could see with God's Eyes who really do have The Actual Seal of The Holy Spirit Through a True Miracle Manifestation of This. Salvation belongs to God. We step out in faith and God performs The Miracle of Eternal Salvation In Christ to manifest in a human being. The Apostles' Creed, Nicene Creed, and Sinners' Prayer (The Sinners' Prayer amended to include that we are born eternally separated from God because of Adam's Sin and we need to be atonement At One Ment with God through The Grace of Jesus Christ with faith and true heartedness on our part. So it is to be in Christ, to continue to grow in Christ, and to be in Sabbath Rest in Christ. Good works do apply too. Not religiously spirited, but with a personal relationship heart attitude with God. Ask All Three of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit to abode in one's heart and soul is to be done after being in Christ.

God can use a truck experience to prepare the hearts of folks to be fertile ground for how to be Born Again in Christ.

It is like becoming a butterfly from being a worm. A new creation.

To SANDRA

Please read Numbers 14:30,31; 15:30; 26:65; 32:12 and you will learn that the children that crossed the Jordan were the children of the new generation.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

Your experience is very personal. Do see The Apostles' Creed, Nicene Creed, and The Sinners' Prayer too. We are born separated from God because of Adam's sin. We need to be atonement at one ment with God through grace of Jesus Christ. We need to be sealed with The Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ. In Christ. When we commit mortal sins, we need to rededicate and pray tbe same prayers as said. By grace with faith through Jesus Christ. Ask All Three Persons of God into your heart and soul too. God bless.

Salvation in Christ is The Seal of The Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ. How many really have The Seal of The Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ? How many will have Their Names Written in The Lamb's Book of Life?

It is of the heart with repentance firstly. Nicene Creed applies. Apostles' Creed applies. The Sinners' Prayer applies. (All are born separated from God because of Adam's sin and need atonement At One Ment with God through Jesus Christ. We still do sin after sealed with The Holy Spirit. Therefore, confessing sins still applies and repentance of sins after being in Christ applies. Mortal sins are in need of rededication by doing the same Prayer of faith and grace of asking Jesus Christ into your heart and soul. None of this matters if it is not all done with one's heart.)

Salvation belongs to The Lord. It is a miracle when one gets sealed with The Holy Spirit. God makes that manifest.

Numbers 14 states that those under 20 years old survived with Caleb and Joshua for the forty years in the wilderness and did go into The Promise Land with Caleb and Joshua. Therefore, Caleb and Joshua had many with them. Later in years in the Promise Land a Remnant was saved too. Many of which were Saphardic Spanish Jews that chose not to go back to Israel after The Battle of Babylon.

Rev.11:3 If The Rapture dies not happen until The Two Witnesses get Raptured, then does that mean that The Body of Christ will need to go through the plagues and bloody waters at Their Commands?

Thank You for Your reply. Elisa went up too without physical death. I got Elijah and Elisa from The King James Version following the footnotes of verses.

The two witness don't have to be Elijah and Elisa. It don't say who they are. Maybe they are you and me. Would'nt that be something. I would be glad to be one. But it could be those two or maybe Enoch could be one, since he or Elijah never died on Earth. They were taken up to Heaven while they were still alive.

Thank You.

Mathew 24:3-36

Mathew 24:36

I do not believe Elijah or Elisa are the witnesses. They are mentioned as one in the old testament and two in the new. Married couples were considered one in the old and two in the new. The only possibility is a married couple living in this age. Plus though they can appear in human form. Elisha and Elisa are in the incorruptible body, true death being not possible in that state.

Much has been stated about the seven year time line, but it should be clear that the first three and a half years are the call for redemption with the world following the Beast and the Beast colluding with the false Messiah leading to the building of the false temple. This culminates with the need for the final stand of the witnesses in Jerusalem at the temple. After the witnesses we have a world wide civil war as many believe the witnesses about the false Beast, Messiah and temple and turn on them. This followed by three and a half years of strife leading to Armageddon. I have left the pre tribulation concept behind and here's why. First, if millions have died for Christ then why should we be any different, especially since many of us have been deceived and not beyond Earthly judgment of our poor decisions. Second no clear mention of this bail out for Christians actually exist in the Bible, just possible references. Third, why as Christians should we not want to help sinners when they need us most. Fourth and most clearly Jesus is definitely stated to come at the end of the tribulation at the time of the final battle. This is the one and only time he will come to announce he is the king of kings and to redeem the Earth forever with the day of the Lord beginning. I have come to the conclusion looking at Biblical teachings over the last 140 years and have realized a pre tribulation redemption of the body is a big selling tool for preachers and nothing else. As for me I would refuse to go and stay to help the sinners to mercy like I believe Jesus would. Not 'run away' like a coward.

No believer has ever dared to judge himself and claim to be 'Born Again'. The Word of God teaches us that you must be 'Born Again'. Your experience is typical of a religious experience based on man-made doctrines. It is also referred to as self-transformation ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15). You are still wearing the same garment that by nature you were born with but were not transformed by God.

Our message therefore remains the same: Ye must repent. The repentance process and the transformation and conversion by God takes many years as God teaches all those that come to Him. God taught a host of approximately two million people for forty years. Only Joshua and Caleb were left of the original group that crossed the Red Sea. All the rest died in the wilderness. How long the transformation and conversion process takes depends on the journey of every person. Dianne & I started our journey in 1984 and still submit our bodies as a living sacrifice each day for the transformation and renewal of our minds ( Romans 12:1,2). We know, we are slow learners.

Like every other religious experience your 'truck' experience was just your high-minded thinking. That is not how a person becomes 'Born of God'.

By attending a man-made institution a few hours a week ( Acts 7:48; 17:24), does not mean that a person can make a claim that they are followers of Christ and 'Born Again'. That is falsehood, as in truth they follow after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9). This is how Satan has transformed Himself into an angel of light ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), It is only by revelation of God that you will come to know Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1). It is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg

Dear Andy, Unlike what you believe as you have privately interpreted against me, the scriptures (judged outside of the hedge, the Bride of Christ) against my witness, which is the Holy Ghost, I will not be limited to your interpretation of the saved and non- saved by choosing by your will to project the God's Holy scriptures on me or others.

Carleton

Until the need to share my testimony today became apparent, I had never before correlated my born again experience with the vision of the Lamb. Both experiences took place in a very similar truck. Both trucks were single axle delivery trucks with fruit. Both experiences happened in the very early morning before there was sunlight. The small difference was a year and a half, and that my born again experience I was in the back in the box part of the truck with the fruit, pouring my sins out by faith in the healing blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ at Calvary, where I found my burdens of sin relieved and immediately a peace came into my heart which I understand as the Holy Spirit in me to this day. In the vision, I was driving the truck up front, thinking of the height, depth and breadth of the Kingdom of Christ when I was taken up in the waking vision while the truck continued driving down the highway heading West towards State College for deliveries.

Carleton

Dear Readers, I want to be very clear, I found repentance and was made free of the burdens of my sins for at least a year and a half before the vision of the Lamb of God occurred while driving a truck on I-80 in Pennsylvania, the state of my birth.

Carleton

Few people agree who the 2 Witnesses are.

Long time ago I thought it would be Moses and Elijah = the Law and the Prophets.

I believe through the internet everyone on earth will see the Two Witnesses on their tv or YouTube.

Be born again; and use your TESTIMONY and tell others how you came to believe.

Each individual testimony is powerful and if you give your testimony to the Lord of the Harvest (Jesus); he will lead you to people who are ready to hear the GOSPEL (virgin birth, sinless life, Crucifixion and death; and the Resurrection of Jesus.

Just like in here.... have a comment you can add, to what someone expounds on a subject. It's that easy. Almost everyone will accept being prayed for. Why? Because life hurts often and everyone needs hope.

Love turned inward is ego. Love turned outward, is Jesus.

Mishael

Thank you! Regarding air quality here in the West it is terrible, there is ash everywhere. I haven't washed my hair yet from working outside and my hair with the sweat and ash is caked. We need for everyone to pray for rain and snow.

God bless the prayers for the Western United States.