Revelation Chapter 11 Discussion Page 9

Bruce, thank you for your ans. I posted the scriptures Revelation 13:7 and Daniel 7:25 because these two scriptures would keep me from believing in the "rapture." If the beast is coming to make war with the saints Rev 13:7 or to wear out the saints of the Most High Dan 7:25 then explain how this can happen if we are not here? I am afraid God's people will not be prepared for what is to come.

Martha: For than shall be great tribulation,such as was not since the beginning of the world--- Matthew 24:21. And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many.V:11.(Acts14:22 --We must through much tribulation. enter into the kingdom of God. The falling away are those turning their back on God, they will tell you read other books. We are to live by every word of God. Luke 4:4

Verse 18 shows that Jehovah God is going to destroy those who are destroying the earth in any way.

To Les 1-31-'17 -- Quote: "I'm just guessing here ... " unquote; I'd be glad to answer your question if I knew you were addressing me ..... ?

"These are the two olive trees,and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." There are only two men that were taken alive to heaven, Enoch and Elijah; it must be them that come back before the coming of the Lord: Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:"just as John the Baptist was also Jesus' forerunner.

Hi Les, not sure if you were directing that at me. The only thing I can think of that I didn't provide reference was the fish and loaves. IF that's what you're referring to, that's just a thought I had one day while studying. Heh, again, that's if you were talking to me. (I just didn't want to not respond in case you were.) Apologies to all for wasting comment space if not. :)

To 7 trumpets - Thank-you for your concern; I'm sure my answer to Martha had no effect on her ....................

(The fish and the loaves just my own thought. Neither here nor there, thought someone might appreciate it.) But yes, all I am saying is, regardless, the two candlesticks are present with the 2 witnesses. And no one need fear, just like in Egypt, none of God's children were hurt by the plagues. It will be the same during Trib. "But there shall not an hair of your head perish." Luke 21:18.

Rev. - the 7 churches - I don't understand just the7; when there are churches everywhere in that area, and all over the world. Maybe these 7 are just 'representative' ..... ? I do know the 7 'angels' are the pastors of these churches. There may be something to it, but the fish and loaves sounds like a stretch. I do know '7' is a favorite no. of God.

Irene, your answer to Martha is not right! First; if you knew the Scriptures, you would know that the Saints will still be in the earth up to the coming of the Lord; and that it is for His purposes in judging the world, and in sanctifying His own people! Second; the "falling away" is NOT the "catching away!" A falling away means APOSTASY, and the catching away is His taking us out and changing us.

Verse 4. The candlesticks are churches ( Rev 1:20). Christ was only happy with 2 of the 7 and little doubt it's Smyrna and Philadelphia. This shows us the approved churches are here with the 2 witnesses. The other 5 Christ warns will be deceived and spewn from His mouth if they don't care to learn. 2 fish (meat) and 5 loaves (bread with leaven), maybe? (Just supposition on that last bit.) :)

Dear Martha - I wish I had the answers to your questions on Dan. and Rev. I'm sure there is a book on it that makes it clear, but I haven't seen one. There are people on here that disparage 'other' books besides the Bible, but - like Matthew Henry - they can be very helpful. Pray and ask God to lead you to such a book, He will; He wants us to understand His word. All my prayers to you ...........

To Martha - There are tribulation saints; as yet nobody knows how or why - except the Lord. They do not prove that the whole church goes through the tribulation. 2 Thess.3 - " ..... except there come a falling away first ..... "; the 'falling away' is the rapture, V. 6 "And now ye know what withholdeth, v." ..... only he who now letteth will let. cont.

All the words of the Prophets about the gathering together of the Lord's Elect; indicate without exception, that it will be "at the last trumpet sounding on the Day of the LORD; at the second coming of Christ in power and great glory. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible otherwise: as the Lord said; "but he that endures to the end, the same shall be saved."

According to the Bible
The saints Of God will be raptured but it's only when Jesus returns
That's when rapture happens
But before that is the great tribulation God does ordain his people to endure the tribulation and be faithful till he returns no matter what happened

That how I understand it and I believe the Bible backs this interpretation

If the saints of God are raptured out then how does He fulfill these scriptures?
Daniel 7:25“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High; Revelation 13:7“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints,

Okay Sakana; I concede to you; you can go thru the trib. if you want - God bless you .................

The teaching of the vision is that "We must again testify" and "be called to witness before kings and governors for Jesus' name sake." The tribulation of the completion of the age, is for sifting and proving the souls of all who dwell upon the earth, beginning with the House of God. If the Lord commands for us to live and remain till He comes, our duty and debt to Him, is to Him Jesus all the way.

Irene123; you're not understanding the truth about the completion of the age: It is not because God is "unloving," that we will be here till the coming of the Lord; but because He has appointed us to be His witnesses; to endure to the end faithful, to fill up the sufferings of Christ "in His body." Every account in the Scriptures tells us, that these things work toward the judgment of the world.

The rapture isn't about individuals being taken to heaven - here 'n there; it's the WHOLE church of the Lord Jesus, worldwide, taken to be with Him forever - before the trib. A LOVING God would NOT allow such horror as 7trs. of trib. to befall His people whom He - LOVES. He's certainly not less than an earthly father. How can you say God is love and then say He will let us go thru that?!!

Rom. 10:14; Heb. 10:25

Part 2 - and I know about Elijah and Enoch, but I mean in the context of having to face a trial. The Holy Spirit will speak through the Elect. They will stand against the first/false Christ. In Christ's words, AFTER the TRIBULATION will He have His elect gathered ( Mark 13:24-27). Again, candlesticks of vs4 are churches. So church IS around. Working in the field. Not taken by flood of lies.

Since when has God raptured or "snatched away" any of his children? Noah went through flood. Moses crossed Red Sea. David fought Goliath. Daniel went IN lion's den. The 3 went THROUGH the fiery furnace. Glory to His name not by running. Rather we go through things and Father protects us. Don't want to run away. Want to STAND/FIGHT, why else bother with armor? Candlesticks are present in Trib, v4.

And the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Sounds like:up,flyaway, rapture. Even children understand clouds are up in the air. 1Thessalonians4:16-18 (printed before 1880)

Let no man deceive you, there is a rapture.

O LORD IEHOUAH, be praised most High God as Your Son Jesus Christ our Saviour is now here in the flesh! Be praised LORD IEHOUAH as our Saviour Jesus Christ has appeared before our very eyes! Amen, and amen!

No sir, there is no rapture. It's made up since 1880. All will hear His voice at last trump. No one has ascended yet but He who descended. The dead "sleep" until they hear His voice at 2nd advent. Revelation covers the entire earth age from Babylon til judgement day just like Daniel does. All the lies about it being all future come from rome to take eyes off of her intentions. Unite all under her!

Is Revelation 11:12 referring to the rapture and after Christians are taken to Heaven will there be people left behind and with still much of the book to be fulfilled.

It's exactly as I said it is. Old and New Testaments. You can use a simple Strong's concordance to see for yourself. They mean "instruction" basically. The power that it rain not is the TRUTH being hid for 1260 literal years under the Roman Church, the DARK ages. Same as 42 mos, time,times and half a time. The "latter rain" will come to the remnant to tell this message of the MARK correctly ROME!

My understanding is that Zerubbabel in Zechariah 4 and in Haggai 2 is symbolic of 1 of the 2 witnesses. It's not as if he will be reincarnated, it is symbolic. It is definitely veiled but the Bible certainly seems to support this.