Revelation Chapter 12 Discussion Page 2

Hi Patrice.

Revelation is a remarkable book,

ans you will find there is several different views of the book.

These views mostly depends on ones hermeneutics, "the study of the general principles of biblical interpretation." A method of the way we study the Bible, considering when to take it literally, allegorically or symbolic. When studying this book it's probably best to cast away our viewpoints and start afresh.

This book is prophetic and have tons of references out of the old testament. The book of Daniel, Zechariah, Psalms, Isaiah, ect... and many more.

Before I recruit you over to my pre Millennial views I would suggest since you already started in Revelation Ch 1 through ch 12, get you a good study reference bible and study those books taking notes, Then go to 1 Thessalonians ch 4, 2 Thessalonians ch 2, Mathews ch 24 and back to Revelation Chs 1-12.

And feel free to ask questions.

God bless.

When i read revelation 1through 12th it woke me up even more i will keep reading it all im going back over again from the begining can you help me understand it even more amen

The woman and the man child; out of three interpretations on the woman being either Mary, Israel or the church, I will use a process of elimination to prove who this woman is. 1. the woman must be in the middle of the tribulation when this event happens, therefore, this could not be Mary. 2. the woman keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ, therefore, this could not be Israel. Secondly the woman has the moon under her feet, meaning power over Satan and devils, Israel has never had that power, meaning this could not be Israel. The right answer is that this is the church, who is clothed with the sun, a metaphorical meaning of the gospel, the New Testament, the gospel of the kingdom and the new covenant. Her twelve stars refer unto the twelve apostles, knowing power was given unto the church in the name of Jesus Christ over all devils, this is the woman.

The man child; found within the church are brethren that have matured to become sons of God, according to the Apostle Paul these are Christians led by the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:14 The sons of God, and the man child, are both male in gender and are one in the same, during the middle of the tribulation, the church will go into labor pains and deliver the man child who will be taken away in the rapture, this is the same understanding of the bridegroom coming for his bride at the midnight hour.

Amen, GiGi.

The flesh is on the bones but the spirit isn't in them yet.

God bless. Ezekiel 37:6. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

God bless.

Hi Jake, I am not sure that this has been completely fulfilled yet. Israel is re-established as a nation, but there as not been widespread repentance and conversion among the Israelites-both Jews and other tribes. They have not ALL been gathered back from all ends of the earth yet. So, I think that this will be fulfilled near the end times or during the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Deuteronomy 30:1-7

Has this prophecy come already?

This chapter begins with the woman, she is clothed with the gospel of Jesus Christ as the metaphorical understanding of the sun, has power over Satan, as the metaphorical understanding of the moon under her feet, has the twelve apostles as the metaphorical understanding of the stars. The anti-Christ kingdom is comprised of the seven nations that ruled the middle east historically as; Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medio Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Ottoman Empire. The ten horns are ten Caliph's of the middle east, who rule as kings without kingdoms. The woman is the church of Jesus Christ who brings forth the sons of God as the man child, also known as the overcomers of Rev. 2:26-27 As well as the bride of Christ. Michael and his angels win a war against Satan and his angels, then does salvation come now, for those in the rapture of the man child will be glorified or saved, the kingdom of Christ starts now in the middle of the tribulation, and the power of his Christ, having to do with the two eagle wings given unto the church as the double anointing or the former and latter rain as taught by Joel 2:23

Lavail Look at revelation 12:9 for your answer.

Who is the dragon

just want to say to god be the glory great things he has done

Rev12; it is the development of the Christians church. Rev.12 ;1-8Jesus was the child and the location was Israel , the 12 star. Jesus was crucified during his the beginning of his ministry which started the Christians church. The red dragon were the leaders of the time who does not want the world to know the truth. They deceived the world about Christ bringing the world in the wilderness. They killed the early disciples of Christ calling them heretics . They control who will be kings, they killed those who would try to bring the truth. rev 12-9-12 Then they were defeated by michael and cast down to the world bringing more chaos and wars and deception. But GOD ALMIGHTY ALLOWED the church to get out of the wilderness, when the Protestant defeat the Catholic Church, this was started by Martin Luther. But there were john Calvin to bring about deception in the Christians world, the anti Christ doctrine. But then again the dragon did not stop in his effort. He succeeded in bringing the Christians to the and wilderness, they succeeded in putting up the 2 Vatican council bringing everyone back to his fold . Rev 12-17Let's see who will be the remnant of the woman , those who will keep the testimony

of Christ and follow the commandments . Observed church members had gone down, and we might not even be able to discuss religion. The the dragon is very strong he continue to deceived by bringing justification to their claim, rights, and declare that GOD ALMIGHTY is against them. But on the contrary, they are the one who turn their backs to GOD. GET READY the tribulation is just around the corner

Uju,

That quotation does not appear in the Bible. Jesus is very clear that we are to follow His example and none other.

As for the requirements to be a leader (pastor) in the church, we have 1 Timothy.

1Ti 3:1-7 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. (2) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (3) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; (4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) (6) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. (7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

A "bishop" here is a pastor.

Where in the Bible do we have this quotation - in order to lead and inspire the same goal leaders practice the same, they have to be self controlled so that their followers will be too. They have to ambody the attributes they hope their followers emulate

Thank you so much to both replies. I looked up the scripture & found solice. I prayed before posting my original thread. He has answered and I am at peace.

To Him be the glory forever Amen.

Hello Stephanie,

Although fasting is seen as a good thing, as far as I know, there is no commandment given to Christians to do so. Matthew 6:16-18 gives us the correct understanding of fasting. The Jews were required to fast only once a year at the Day of Atonement. On the Day of Atonement they fast. But the Pharisees fasted twice a week, every Monday and Thursday. That's 104 times a year! But the requirement was to only fast once a year. The Pharisees wanted to show themselves as being "Super Spiritual."



Now, you touched on something that should be the goal of every believer, which is about the next step in one's spiritual walk. After salvation, the next step is to have our minds transformed. We are to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and we are to submit ourselves to His humbling process. You call it "rocks and weeds," and I like that. Here is something you should know. If you have received Jesus Christ (Been born of His Spirit), there is no "hard soil" to break up. That's already been far penetrated and broken up since you've received Him. (See Parable of the Sower).

However, once we are saved, the effects of sin in our past remain stuck in the cortex of our minds. We can't get away from that. So we have to submit ourselves to the Lord so He can mend us from our past and so that He can transform us and renew our minds.

Sorry if I'm getting off-topic. If you choose to fast, that is between you and the Lord. It should be done in secret. It doesn't necessarily mean to give up food for the day, even though food can be a distraction. But if you decide to fast, just put aside a time where it's just you and the Lord, clear your mind of all worldly distractions, and just focus on Christ and His word. It should be a one on one time with Him without distraction. But just so you know, there is no commandment given to believers to fast.

Stephanie, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

Your question is, what must I do?

You answered your on question in the sentence preceding you question.

I HAVE LEARNED God wants to clear out the "rocks and weeds" in my life breaking up the hard soil.

GOD IS FAITHFUL IN ALL HIS WANTS. HE will do the work. Sit still and behold the salvation (WORKS) of God.

Psalms 57:2 I will cry into God most high; unto God THAT PERFORMETH ALL THINGS FOR ME.

As to fasting in God's eyes the answer is in Isaiah 58

Hello,

I have been studying on the subject of fasting. It is something I have never personally participated in nor fully comprehend. In reading Matthew 13:1-23 I have learned God wants to clear out the "rocks and weeds" in my life breaking up the hard soil. So my question is how? What must I do to take this next step in my spiritual walk? Is it structured or done during a certain month? I would appreciate any feedback, guidance, or further reading to be considered before moving forward.

Sincerely,

Stephanie

Maria,

You are very welcome. Thanks for the blessing. May the Lord continue to bless you with understanding as you remain in His word!

Thank you for the explanation of Chapter 13 of Revelation. It was clear, concise and now I understand. Thank you and God bless you.

Maria,

My understanding is that the woman represents Israel, and the child is Christ. My reason for believing that the woman is Israel and the child is Christ comes from Genesis Chapter 37, the story of Joseph and his brothers, where we get the sun and the moon, and the twelve stars.

The sun and moon represented his parents, and the 12 stars represented the twelve tribes of Israel. This is referring to the nation Israel. And the Messiah was prophesied to come through Israel.

Revelation 12:5 gives us the description of the male child: It says "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:" That's the Messiah in Psalm Chapter 2 Verses 8 and 9. And then it goes on to say that her child was caught up unto God. That's the ascension. And to His throne!

And then Revelation 12:6 tells us that the woman (Israel/Jews) fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days, or 3-1/2 years.

Many believe that this is the rock city of Petra that is already supplied with food out in the wilderness, so that when those who are sealed by God, the 144,000 especially, they will have a place to go.

Who are the Woman and Child in Revelation 12? I think the Child could represent Israel, but not sure who the Woman represents.

For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I think that pretty much gives everybody a chance to have sins forgiven and be grafted into the family of God, don't you?

Hallelujah! Mishael

Hello JMCL,

Just to give a short reply to your question. I think what is more important to perceive is "do I love God"? God's mercy, compassion, lovingkindness, forgiveness is endless. For God is love and life. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and want's people to turn, repent, from their wickedness/sin and live by His Will which is Holy and pure. As said "Return to me and I will return unto you saith the Lord of hosts".

As even satan was one of His angels who turned against Him, along with many others, who are now His main adversaries.

God hates sin and those who live in willful sin are not close to Him. Although, God knows everything and that one who is a sinner today may be a saint tomorrow. The Lord searches hearts. Though many shall die in there sin and not acknowledge God or Jesus Christ.

He loves His Creation so much that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, for us. By His grace and love for us.

Keep reading the Holy Bible. Give your life to Jesus Christ if you have not already done so. Pray from the heart. The truth shall set you free.

God Bless.

the dragon persecuted the women and thats is not the literal church of today that church is israel the african american trans atlantic slave trade and spanish inqusition is the persecution of the women its time to come to the truth

Hello Fellow believer, Christian Greetings. I have faith that you also carry a testimony of Faith by Jesus Christ.

That we can be found faithful in the last day.

Carleton

What are pratical ways to encourage early teens to read the bible?

Hello Andrew, The reformation brought forth some men in the power of God that are well remembered. However these men did not reform anything. The faith once delivered was already present and always has been since the Apostles built on the rock of Jesus Christ the Son of God. It is on this foundation of faith that I was baptized into Church of God by water after proving my spirit and hearing my testimony amongst others who are on the same foundation as the Apostles and true Church throughout the ages which remains complete to this very day. I do not think you know her, because you have looked elsewhere and found nothing and created a new story that is outside of outside of the bride of Christ, His Church which is Holy. I am properly baptized into this Holy place. This home is a refuge for my soul and an accountability of my life, a place to raise my family, a place to see children surrender their lives to Jesus Christ as God calls them to repentance in His time. I am free, free indeed! Outside of our time together in this race where we have met and I am happy to have done so, I am not anchored to your understanding or your hope or your instructions in the Gospel of Jesus Christ because we are not brethren and I run this race in the peace of the Gospel happily. I doubt you can provide any continuity throughout the ages of your Church and people that interpret the scriptures as you do as Chris tried to show you.

Carleton

Amen Carleton, that is beautiful and powerful!

Well, praise the Lord Carleton!

I believe you were born again when you poured out your heart to the Lord in that produce truck.

However, (& not to offend you or cause contention, but because I care for your soul as a priest of Jesus Christ), concerning your receiving of the Holy Ghost; where in the book of Acts does it say anyone received the Holy Ghost & just felt peace?

Likewise, concerning your baptism, where in Acts did anyone have water poured over them (this is what the roman catholic church does to infants before they even know theyre sinners in need of a Savior)?

The Greek word used for baptism (& mind you I'm no greek or hebrew scholar for we have the word of God translated perfectly in English with the KJV, but it does help sometimes to get a better understanding) is 'bautizo' & means full immersion. This is how we are buried with Christ in baptism - Col. 2:12.

I imagine the man who poured water over you said the words, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Ghost" but HE NEVER SAID THE ONE NAME GIVEN AMONG MEN UNDER HEAVEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED ( Acts 4:12): Jesus Christ!

You see as an example: I can write you a check and sign it as son, brother, or cousin; those are all titles that represent who I am, but the bank won't remit the funds to you unless I put my name on it.

The name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is: Jesus Christ (I can provide scripture for this if you want). Peter & all the disciples understood this ( Acts 2:38, 22:16).

By no means am I denying the experience you had with the Lord in that produce truck. But I am denying the lies that men have told you concerning baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost that didn't come from the bible."Yea, let God be true and every man a liar" - Rom. 3:4

Do you know the bible says that baptism saves us? 1 Pet. 3:21

I offer this to you in the name of Jesus Christ & I pray that you can receive it.

Sincerely,

Andrew

P.S.I'm still ready to share my testimony

Greetings Andrew and any who will read this post.

The very short story: I felt led outside of my soul to seek instruction and Bible understanding that the answer to my forlorn soul was faith in Jesus Christ and that I must repent of my sins. Resistance to this took years. One day, in the mid-night hours in the back of a dirty produce truck, I poured out my sin before Jesus, anything that came to mind. I became willing in my heart with the help of Jesus to turn away from my worldly life and sell my field and buy his field. Jesus gave me that field in that hour. I was bought for a price and I had sold what I had. How did I know this transaction of love was complete? The Holy Ghost. Not only did I have immediate peace with God by His Son and knowledge of it by His Holy Ghost but I also had power to over come willing sins. Even words that I spoke. I also had an immediate love for my fellow man wanting the same for them. I was willing to reconcile with any man regarding my past, so I felt that I also could say that I have peace with God and man that same hour. The desire to meet and know brethren in this same Spirit grew in me. In due time I entered the Visible Church by water baptism (pouring). Regarding Baptism by the Holy Spirit which seems to ne your interest mostly Andrew it happened when the Holy Spirit entered me. Perhaps there were words I remember not. Today as I mentioned I understand the groaning within me to live outside of this flesh and world that is not my home. This is the short story. Mishael, in whom I love knows a longer version of the same.

Carleton