Revelation Chapter 14 Discussion Page 4

what is the timeline between chapters 14,15 to chapter 16

I heard this chapter used to support the partial rapture, multiple raptures, first fruits doctrine of Robert Govett. I think it has more to do with the parable of the wheat and the tares Matthew 13:24-30.

Is there a real place called hell where the unbelievers go?

Dear Shirley Prado; you have asked a very important question. In the world you will get many answer but please realize the world is full of deception. You were given a answer and I do not feel it is strong enough for the answer to your question. Your answer can be simple but would not easy to absorb and also Satan's agents are waiting to attack with deception. We are in a spiritual war for the mind. Trust no one, however I will ask you to read Jeremiah 33.3 KJV. Make it your daily prayer. Make a deal with the Lord that you will follow where he leads no matter how unpopular. Pray daily and do not give up. God will answer, he can not lie. "Study to show thy self approved, a workman rightly dividing the word of Truth." I and millions more, clearly know what will be placed in the forehead. For years I have known after using Jeremiah 33.3 for over 6 months, until God led me to the correct church to find the answer's. For years I walked [ by faith in his prophecy,s] not knowing how it would be possible to put the mark in most of the world's forehead but in the last 3 years it is clear to see it coming . I say most because there is also another mark for those who do not take the beast mark. This mark is called the Seal of God. If you seek the Lord with all the heart you will be blessed because no secret thing will the Lord withhold from those who walk upright.

To explain Revelation 14:8, we need to bear in mind that the vision given to John wasn't that of Babylon of old (i.e. the city once located on the Euphrates River, or of what Isaiah spoke of in his book chapters 13 &14). That Babylon was an oppressive empire, which brought much destruction to Jerusalem, much misery & ultimately taking Judah into a long & painful captivity. That city & Empire have long gone & there is nothing to indicate that it would ever be resurrected.

This depiction of Babylon is taken up in the New Testament & it seems to be representative of any city/empire that demonstrated the wickedness of that original city. The one that fits closely & under which John & the NT Church was subjected to, was the Roman Empire. So, it's generally understood that Rome is depicted in the Book of Revelation as 'spiritual' Babylon. Now, the Roman government was largely pagan but as Christianity was firmly rooted in Rome & with advent of the Papacy in later centuries, we see a strong reference of Babylon not only being Rome, but the papacy in particular.

How Rome or the papacy figures in the end times can only be speculation, particularly in respect to the raising of the Anti-Christ & giving him support, but we know that the serious errors within that Church, given its idolatry, worship of Mary & the saints, the false Eucharist, salvation by works & grace & various functions within that demonstrate a departure from apostolic teaching, it wouldn't be difficult to see their part in the last days & their eventual destruction. Of the U.S. & any other country, each one stands before God for their departure from the Truth, their permission given to all manner of evils & rejection of Christ. There will be increasing turmoil in all lands that should rather agitate their reasoning to leave wickedness & run towards godliness, but according to the Word, this will push them farther away from the Truth & to their eventual destruction.

I don't know about the Babylon reference, but I think God might be allowing our society to destroy itself or maybe humble itself. Most of the things people say currently are lies. People just lie and deceive each other constantly. Lies might even account for 95% of everything said and believed. It is almost like a lust for lies and the power that comes from deception. I think Romans 1:21-25 describes the cultural degradation now occurring in the USA.

Does the meaning of the fall of Babylon,does it also mean the United States?

love..it

Dear Sister Shirley; God bless you

What is the beast? It is what takes you away from God. What takes you to God? The Holy Ghost - the Seal of God. What is the mark of the beast? It is unbelief. Unbelief is the unpardonable sin. You must believe to have forgiveness. You cannot be forgiven of unbelief. What is the mark in the forehead? The forehead is the seat of reasoning. Reasoning is to take us to God. The mark of unbelief is the worst thing you can have on your forehead. It is unforgivable.

Peace & Love

What is the mark of the beast? what is the mark in the forehead?

Revelation 14 v 6, 7 ,8

I find these verses fascinating, over the centuries of the gospel being perverted , the Pure Gospel will be preached to all at that time !

Here is again the God of love extending His great mercy before sure judgement .

And just after this Babylon is fallen ...

The Remnant, also called the 144,000, the elect or a part of the chosen. They are from the twelve tribes of Israel but scattered abroad among all nations. The 'women' term mentioned in Revelation 14:3 is the symbolic term for the church such as 'the women'. The church part is proven in Revelation 12:17. The 'virgins' term in Revelation 14:3 is from the Parable of the Foolish Virgins in Matthew Chapter 25 meaning they are bridesmaids not physical virgins and in summary are meant to be 'undefiled by church'.

Chapter 14 verse 16 Revelations indicate that the Earth was reaped. Which means dove children of God were removed from the Earth or the rapture happened.

Blessed be the Holy Ghost!

Thank you Joe. I think the Bible is clear, but Christians are afraid to accept reality. Back in the 60's and 70's we talked about these things. But we were severely chastised and disciplined for deviating from "Orthodox" doctrine. Churches are set up so you can't question current beliefs. The Pastor goes up to the Podium, tells you what you have to believe and there is no opportunity to challenge anything s/he says. Sunday School isn't much better. And Adult Bible Studies also suppress discussion of some issues. Most people are not even interested or prepared enough to form opinions. And once the Pastor leaves the Pulpit, s/he is not accessible for discussion. In my opinion, churches should give those in the audience an opportunity to raise questions. But of course, time is limited and we are always told we can discuss that at another time. So, everything is left to the academics and whatever they say, is what we must believe.

However, and in spite of that, we must continue to support each other as a testimony to the world of what Christ has done. Perhaps in a perfect world things would be different. Jesus is Lord!

Anyway, thanks for your comment.

Very well said Carlos! This unites religion and science which is so much more important rather than placing the two at odds.

Facts about RFID chips to help you understand the truth and the realities behind them.

There is NO mention of mandatory RFID implants in the AFFORDABLE CARE Act, but there WAS mention of data collection from class II devices in an early version of the law (HR3200). Read online.

RFID chips are real, and there is more than a decade's worth of legislation about their use.

Georgia, California, North Dakota, Wisconsin, and Virginia have all passed legislation that prevents mandatory RFID implantation.

RFID chips don't have to be implanted. For instance, they can be put on credit cards or animal tracking collars.

The FDA has shown some RFID implants to be safe for implantation in humans. A version of the RFID chip is currently in use as an animal tracker, either implanted or used in a detachable collar. These are used to track household pets and monitor endangered species. RFID chips are currently in use in ankle bracelets or wrist TAGS to track both vulnerable newborn babies and make sure they are only taken out of a hospital by their families.

While the ACA doesn't allow for data collection from class II devices, it does contain wording about electronic data collection to improve the quality of care and better coordination between doctors including SEC. 3015. DATA COLLECTION; PUBLIC REPORTING.

It is reasonable to think that, in the future, RFID chips will be in more widespread use. They could be implanted or be used in identity cards, alert bracelets and such. Not only could implanted chips monitor your health status if you were diabetic or prone to seizures, but they could be used as GPS, a means to transfer currency, cell phones, computers, etc.

BEWARE of Government MANDATES. See if your State has legislated to Prevent unlawful tracking for now.

The Holy Spirit told me, each individual would have to Consciously CHOOSE to get the Mark; worship the Beast.

Just don't get it on the HAND OR THE FORHEAD.

How close is the enforcement of mark of the beast?

Page 2.

And who is the Tree of Life? None other than Christ.

Yes, there is an element of symbolism, allegory and metaphor in Genesis 1-3. And the 2 Trees were representative of something other than trees. Likewise, the 24 hour a day creation is also misunderstood. Days are Phases, Stages of creation, not literal 24 hours. If all God did was say, let there be light, and poof, everything came into being, what did He do with the rest of the 23 hours, 59 minutes and 59 seconds? The element of literal hyperbole is indisputable. But most Christians are afraid to admit it. Read Heb 3-4 for a better understanding of the duration of the 7th Day.

With respect to the 7th Day, Heb 3-4 says God designated a time called 'Today' during which we have the opportunity to enter into God's Rest. And what is God's Rest? On the 7th Day God rested from His creative activity. Now it stands to reason, that if we are able to enter God's rest, He has not resumed His creative activity. But once Christ returns, that will be the end of God's rest. At that time, God will destroy the earth with fire, 1 Peter, and He will create a new heaven and a new earth.

So, if we are still in the 'Today' of the 7th Day, is the 7th Day a 24 hour period? Clearly not if God had resumed work on the 8th Day, since His rest would have been over. But God has designated this 'Today' a long today, so that He can Save as many as are written in the Book of Life. He is not willing that any should perish and for Christ to enter the world to accomplish that Purpose.

But if the 7th Day can be 6,000 years long, is it inconceivable that Day 1 could be 1, 2, 3 Billion years old. And the others? How long did it take for animals to procreate and trees to grow and streams to flow and the dry land to appear? How long between Adam and Eve? How long did they walk in the Garden with God? Symbolism in the Genesis account, doesn't mean Genesis is untrustworthy. It means God told the story using allegory and metaphor.

You have shared a lot of deep insight to think about. Thanks, Chris.

Good stuff, Mishael.

Carlos, in answer to you, my sense is that, like most things about us, God just leaves us alone & we go about our daily lives, whether in the midst of problems in the home, Church, or society. To believers, it serves to remind us to get back to His Word, to reacquaint ourselves with God's Standards & Requirements, thus a 'spiritual' Church should take note & rectify problems & divisions. The 'carnal' Church will still go on about their business doing what they believe is right & God-honouring, giving little regard to what the Scriptures actually teach.

I think that 'denominations' were inevitable as the Church moved further away from apostolic teaching. Interpretations of Scripture, even the fusing of OT practices into the Church (incense, robes, chants, etc.), would undoubtedly creep in as men looked to their own wisdom rather than the Wisdom in the Word. Looking at the Church with human eyes, one could wonder why the Lord would have any further dealings with us anymore. Except for that singular fact: His Own Son's Blood was shed for the Church & only faith in that finished Work alone, would secure the desperate soul to salvation & glorious eternity. Thus it is heartening to understand that ultimately God can only be our Judge, & that judgement based on one's saving faith in His Son, & nothing else.

Carlos, I still have our other 'unfinished' matters before me - don't despair!

Doesn't the variety of religions remind us of the Tower of Babel, sorta, kind of?

God confused the one language into Many. Everybody moved away so they could hear only their language?

See that's humans for you. They all want some unique way to hold Church and attract new visitors. All people want to have it their way.

Anyone can go online now and read the tenets of that Church's faith. What they believe. If it doesn't match up to the Bible, don't go there. If the church has skinny "sheep" then they aren't being fed on the Word of God. If they don't have wool, then they're being fleeced by false shepherds.

We have a grave responsibility to search these things out!

We attend church to obey God.... because we love Him and He wants us to learn about him. Somewhere it says that if the stall is "full", that's a happy barn; a balanced diet.

Don't put the full responsibility on the Pastor to feed you!

We are to be having family Bible night at home too. Kids will never walk away from God if his love and nurturing is at home. There are many "justice league" kind of heroes in scripture. Jesus slipped in and out of crowds when it was necessary; being chased by Pharisees & legalists. Paul is running from them, Romans and all manner of hazards. What does that teach? Saul chased King David for years and couldn't kill him. If you are hidden in Christ you can achieve amazing victories.

Children know none of these amazing stories, these days. The Bible was removed from schools in 1962. Jesus was kicked out, along with the 10 commandments. LOOK AT WHAT OUR SOCIETY HAS BECOME.

One old lady atheist did that.

Does anyone have a testimony of what Jesus did for them this week???

Maybe God would like to hear it too??

The kids love tunes by Carman on youtube, like: Yahweh; Yo Kids album; he loves ministering in song to kids :D. I used to go to the same church he went to. Kids set on fire for Jesus. It can happen again folks.

Your comments are enlightening. Why does God allow so much friction in the Church? Why so many denominations?

Carlos. Those were great & pertinent comments - I agree wholeheartedly with you about the Church's condition & hypocrisy that often permeates its being. False teaching, leading humble, enquiring souls into damnation, also remains the order of many a so-called Church. We do have clear Scripture on our behaviour as believers & as a Church meeting together, but if any choose to think or do things in opposition, it is ultimately to be left with them as they only are answerable to both God & conscience. Their salvation nevertheless, based on faith in Christ's finished Work, remains secure. The 'keeping of the Sabbath' is a particularly nasty one: fusing the Law with Grace, is what the apostles had to constantly grapple with.

Jesus is Lord!

Chris and Bethany, I hope I do the Christian Faith justice with my comments. There are so many differing points of view on so many things. Am I far off when I say there are insulated Christian Cultures that base their existence on rules of their making, by emphasizing vague passages in the Bible to justify their control? Take the Amish and Quakers. Isn't that a glaring example of what I mean? Or Adventists. Good people all of them, but from my perspective, they have issues. Of course, there are also JW, Mormons and others most might not even think of as Christians. But then there are those within mainstream denominations that insist certain things must be done a certain way or else, you are not saved.

The way women dress is particularly emphasized in many groups. My aunt, for example, was told to leave the church because she cut and colored her hair. Some say it is a must to observe the Sabbath, but all they do is have their Sunday Service on Saturday. They don't really observe all the rules attached to keeping the Sabbath. They can't. Others claim you must not eat meat, drink coffee, beer, or smoke. Mormons won't even drink Coca Cola. I could never be a Mormon just based on that one rule. Others won't accept gays in their congregations, but will allow adulterers and hypocrites to preach a Sunday sermon or lead the Choir. This, by the way, is not a list of complaints. They are just my observations.

My message is that we tend to focus on the petty and inconsequential and miss the real meaty stuff. So what should we be focused on? The Gospel. Joy, not reprisal. Appreciation of others, in spite of their shortcomings. And the fact that we must prepare for the End Times. Are most Christians prepared for persecution? What will we do when churches are forced to close? Or when we have to meet in secret? And when killing Christians becomes the norm? When we can't shop? Are we prepared? Jesus warned us in Matt25. Be prepared. Will the AntiChrist be the Muslim Mehdi?

comments on matthew 13 kjv Jesus tells us this parable of the Sower and his seed is the greatest parable, the most important that we understand. He said know ye not this parable HOW then will you KNOW ALL PARABLES. The parable of the sower is about being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the Word of GOD. Ya have to see it as the seed of the bridegroom sown in our hearts then ya see the CHILDREN of the kingdom, the son of man, mankinds fruit unto God via the good seed the words of the new covenant that God wants to sow in our hearts.I will put my words/seed in their hearts and minds, I will Know them ALL from the least to the greatest impling a heavenly birth via his seed etc. Jesus said that this seed is gonna result in a child in us th good seed are th children of the kingdom not a flesh and blood child but a spritual Child that which is born of the spirit is spirit thats the Child the H.G. ( That which is born of the spirit is the H.G. ) 1 st comes the child, 30 then the son, 60 then the fullness of the son in the GODHEAD 100 % KINGDOM IN THE SPIRIT. That new born that desires the sincere milk of the WORD is the H.G. our new innerman that new creature that has to be born in us via HIS HEAVENLY SEED th WORD, Jesus came forth as 1st a child 30 then the son 60 then the fulness of God in the son 100 % KINGDOM OF GOD came unto us as a seed sown in MARYS WOMB.But now its our hearts that is the womb where that good seed is gona be sown resulting in a birth of Christ in us.My lil children of whom travail in birth till Christ is formed in you,that good seed is gona form a baby king in US which is the H.G. Thats y the woman is giving birth she heard the word that good seed and kept it resulting in a birth and this is the best example of FAITH when a woman is pregnant she has the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen th child ( the H.G. ) in our case, B/C i have spoken these words/seeds sorrows have filled your hearts a pregnancy a CHILD. GB

I wish we could come to some kind of truce about how much trouble Israel has heaped upon themselves for allowing Jesus to be crucified?

It was PROPHESY. It all happened as the Godhead Wrote it. Through Jesus's suffering He set the new Covenant in motion until the mystery be completed: until the fullness of the Gentiles.

Rom. 11:11 ...have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather..through their fall...salvation is come unto the Gentiles (WHY?) for to provoke them (the JEWS) to jealousy.

For if the casting away from them be THE RECONCILING of the WORLD...what shall be the the RECEIVING of them be...but life from the dead?

Verse 26: And so ALL Israel SHALL BE SAVED

Verse 27: For this is MY COVENANT unto them (Israel) , WHEN I shall take away their sins.

Verse 28: As concerning the gospel (birth, life, death, resurrection of Jesus) They are enemies (now) FOR YOUR SAKES (us).

BUT as touching the election, they are BELOVED for the fathers sakes (plural) Deuteronomy 9:5.

They're OUT now and we are IN. God did that all by Himself. Didn't need any of us to debate the soundness of His Decision. Why indeed should any of us Gentiles shed a tear for 6 million Jews who were murdered? Well, they were on the outs so it's ok?

Is there anybody who will stop a minute and pray a prayer God asked us to do?

Psalm 122:6, 121:4, 125:5

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem (not a suggestion)

God is not willing that any of us perish but that we'd all come to repentance: which means to turn around and walk away from what's holding us back. Backsliding simply means to stand still and go nowhere.

Forgive me for saying this, but there are people coming in here who need help.

TITUS 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, genealogies, and contentions and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

God show us your heart always, and to esteem others with meekness and friendship.

Only the Father knows the day of the Rapture.

When is the fullness of the Gentiles complete? Romans 11:25-36

Matthew 24:36, 42, 44

Mark 13:32

Acts 1:11

And now a reminder: Ecclesiastes 12:9-14