Revelation Chapter 14 Discussion Page 5

Carlos, just a quick follow up on my comment: I just saw your comment to Bethany, re: 1 Tim 2:12, so I can appreciate maybe the "control over others" issue you raised. I won't comment on that other one to Bethany here, as it will make this thread ambiguous, nor will I comment on it over there, but I'm sure it will appear in this thread in due course.

Carlos, I heartily agree with your comments brother (as I usually do, though squeezing in some subtle reservations, if I may!). So here we go: I realize that there will always be those who seek to bring believers back into bondage to sets of rules which are unnecessary, unbiblical & burdensome; and these are enforced to bring its adherents into a position of bondage, clothed in the garb of Scriptural mandate & "being of one mind & belief". Sometimes, such rules are not altogether wrong, but if they produce exclusivity & alienation from other 'believers', which again is not in God's Plan, then we must be warned.

However, you do not specify in what ways some are using "the Bible as a Book of Rules through which to control people". I know the matters of Church conduct, whether in dress, speech, usage of spiritual Gifts, etc. have come up here & I certainly have shared in some of them, but as much as I believe that these topics are not dealt with, either within the Word or amongst believers, in an authoritarian manner, I suspect that some might find a strict adherence to such matters concerning & not in line with the freedom we have in Christ. In my input in this Discussion space, I always ensure that my comments are biblically based (with references where needed), & so it is then a matter of correct 'dividing of the Word' that comes to the fore. Yet, there can still be room for objection in this, & I think that is where the matter lies: is one being too legalistic or judgemental by stating the facts laid out in Scripture? Or, at which point does the biblical mandate become open to more relaxed/liberal views? And then, who decides on this point, or do we leave the matter open-ended & a sense of a 'do what you feel is best for you'. And a further point: should we have a swipe at the apostles, who in the main, have so directed us?

Anyway, just a few thoughts that come to mind; & these of course, may well be off the mark to your purpose in writing.

Trinity is not a Bible word, but Godhead is.

1 Thess 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Paul says spirit and soul and body)

Isaiah 10:18 - And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth. (Body and Soul different)

Matthew 10:28 - Jesus said: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ..........destroy both soul and body in hell.

Isaiah 26:9 - With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. (Soul and Spirit are different)

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

.... dividing asunder of soul and spirit, (the word of God divides the soul and spirit)

so the Bible ALONE teaches man has a body and a soul and a spirit = 3 parts = 1 man

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness

Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 9:6 - Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

So IF one man is Body, Soul and Spirit which is 3 parts and God made man in HIS IMAGE

How many parts is God? 3? a Godhead? or trinity?

What the bible says about the trinity

comments on Carlos's posts about Noah's flood. Carlos th flood was just an allegory of another flood coming in the spirutal realm.Isaiah says that knowledge shall cover the earth as the waters cover the seas. A spritual flood of his spirit is gonna cover the earth meaning mankind. Everything in the O.T. was just simbolic of something coming in the N.T. TH FUTURE under a new covenant.Jesus said outta of their bellies shall flow Rivers of living water but john said this water is just simbolic of his spirit ( the H.G ETC. )THE H.G was not yet given simple b/c jesus was not yet glorified this Glorification is the flood coming on all humanity. As Joel said he wd pour out his spirit on all flesh ( THE FLOOD ) God so loved the world etc.And the latter rain doctrine is also of a rain/flood coming that will flood the world,much greater then the former rain th early Church doctrine /flood. Even Paul said when that which is perfect is come that which is done in PART will be done away with. Early church doctrine was all in parts as paul said, we know in part etc. In rev. it says he will lead us to fountains of living water, water without limit a deludge a flood etc Whosoever will let him come and drink of the waters of life freely this is the 2 nd flood that is gonna destroy our carnal minds his enemy ( satan ) as his house is our body but now satans defiles this house. Outta of the hearts of man proceeds all manner of evil thus we need a new heart and a new spirit which will come via his Word ( His SPIRIT that will flood this earth) that good seed etc the seed of the kingdom etc John saw the kingdom coming via a River, a Flood ( that River of life ) Also Daniel saw the kingdom coming via a River of life . That spritual Flood that is coming in th last day.gbu

As I read some posts in this venue, I notice many use the Bible as a Book of Rules through which to control people. Many even use it to subdue church members into a submission that robs them of the liberty we have in Christ. Some leaders even use Scripture to set up little kingdoms where they are the rulers and Popes. Congregants are even told to take everything to their pastors for approval and guidance. There are church congregations that will not allow you to be a member unless you commit to a monthly or annual membership fee.

The Bible is not a Book of Rules. It is the message of God to humanity about what He is doing, why He is doing it and how we can know The Father and The Son in a personal way. It is the Good News about how we can become Sons of God in Christ. It is the way to Freedom from the cement block of evil, sin, death and corruption wrapped around our feet. The Bible is our way to God the Father, not to another prison of restrictive rules and fearful existence.

The Gospel of eternal salvation and abundant life in Christ allows us to step out of the dark dungeon of repressive sinful habits that made our lives miserable, into the brightness of the liberty of knowing Jesus.

Don't let anyone try to pull you back into a dungeon of repressive religious mandates that steal the liberty of Christ from you. That doesn't mean you can sin freely, carouse, and live as if there were no rules. There are rules of social, religious and political behavior. There must be order, decency, decorum, proper behavior. Organization is essential to every life endeavor.

But live in the liberty of Christ. Be human! Live life as a human enjoying salvation in Christ. Don't live life trying to be as impeccable as Angels.

The Bible is about Christ and God's Purpose Driven Creation. It is about how we can know God and the liberty with which He makes us free from oppression, repression, confusion, depression, addiction, sin and takes us to eternal perfection.

In reference to abortion: many scriptures on the unborn. You shall know the Truth and the truth will set you free.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

If humanity doesn't go right into pre-Revelation events, then we are in trouble on many fronts. This generation Aborted their future. Social security, Medicare, etc. will probably go belly up because those future tax payers and voters, were aborted. Already college tuitions are sky high because your fellow class mates were aborted. Now we have a stock market gone flatline or quivering.

People storm the streets and State capitals to demand that the killing continue. Clueless about how they are going to finance their old age.

What does a Holy God do about this?

Gays, Homosexual, transgenders are really clueless about Gods response to that. They don't care...or maybe they do?

All I know is that in Genesis, He created them male and female, and called it Very Good. There wasn't a maybe in the chapter; or a mistake. Whatever is on your birth certificate is what you are.

Genesis 2;24-25 is the first recorded marriage between Adam & Eve. See Psalm 45:10 also.

Genesis 6:4 the evil angels with Satan, married human women and made Giants.

Genesis 6:6,12, people had managed to corrupt humankind.

Genesis 6:7 God decides to destroy all his previous creation. He saved a God fearing remnant composed of Noah, his family, and animals on the Ark.

Genesis 11:Nimrod decides to build the Tower of Babel so he can have his house next door to God so he can flaunt his sin right in Gods face.

Genesis 11:7. The LET US (triune Godhead), confused the one language into many! Lol

People moved away to other countries so they could speak only their language. Easy fix for God.

It's the rock headed people who are sure they can overwhelm God unto giving up.

I don't think so. God's going to rapture born again people off this rock; and let this rock BURN. 2 Peter 3:10

Get born again NOW! Repent

How old was Jesus when Joseph and Mary were told by the angel to flee with Him to Egypt?

I just typed FASTING in the search box (when you enter the website) and there is a lot of scripture.

Dedicate the fast to the Lord. When I fast I turn off all media; tv, etc.

I give up solid food. I drink broth and water; juice. I always heard at church; fast from food and feed on the Bible.

People with health conditions are totally able To eat soup to protect blood sugar issues. God knows about them.

Fasting has physical pluses for living a fasted lifestyle. It removes the glue in our guts. The body eats it.

Don't tell anyone you are fasting. Dress. Don't look wilted. Avoid the phone if you can.

Do all to the glory of God. Read your Bible. Take notes. Write down anything the

Holy Spirit shows you or tells you. Also, Satan doesn't want you to fast! He'll have everyone show up at your door wanting BLT's.

One time when I felt led to fast, it ended up with me avoiding making a huge mistake. I was doing my 7th day. I was blessed! Grateful.

A lot of people need to go off fasting carefully. Don't eat too heavy. Your body has shut down & needs to awaken gently.

I need to tap in to your wisdom and Bible knowledge if I may. When I'm fasting I do not eat. But is it ok to drink water or other drinks or beverages. Thatk you for help. God bless you.

Excellent Jesse. It warms my heart.

Shelagh,

The 144,000 is a biblical teaching. The Jehovah's Witnesses just misapply it. If I remember correctly, they say that the 144,000 are J.W.'s. But the bible tells us in the book of Revelation that the 144,000 that are sealed are Jews, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

That's the 144,000 Jews who were sealed back in Revelation Chapter 7, that at Christ's second coming, He will gather them to Himself there in Jerusalem at Mount Sion. They are sealed by God so that they cannot be harmed. They are saved, all 144,000 of them. But there will be many Gentiles (You and I), many more than 144,000 who will also be saved, and are saved now.

The "Nihil Obstat" in the Catholic bible means that it has been certified for use by the Catholic church. Are you Catholic? The reason I ask is because their teaching on salvation is different from the biblical teaching. It is more of a works based salvation, not the biblical teaching that a person must repent, receive Christ, and surrender their life to Him.

A person must trust in Christ alone for their salvation, not trusting in man's teachings, regardless of what church fellowship they belong to. Salvation comes by receiving Christ. Receiving Him is Spiritual. It has nothing to do with physically receiving Him every time a person receives communion. Shelagh, have you received Christ?

While reading chapter 14 Revelations I was worried about the number of those saved 144000 thousand only who had the mark of the lamb ? Isn't this the teachings of the Jehovah witness bible? I was brought up by knowing that all who believes in Jesus and follows Him will be saved ?? I have a Holy Bible but I cannot find the Nihil Obstat nowhere in the book . Does this mean it's not a Catholic Bible? It's ESV version . What is worrying is that I bought it from a Catholic church ?? Thank you xx

That's a great Truth, Cathryn; the Holy Spirit can only be the One to make His Word meaningful & personal to our lives. Yet, God has blessed His Church with Spiritual Gifts ( 1 Cor 12) for her teaching & building up. He expects that those gifted with a prophetic Word or teaching it in Wisdom, will fulfil their calling joyfully & as such are answerable to the Lord ( Heb 13:17, speaks of those in leadership, which would involve teaching/counselling). So, Revelation really isn't a difficult Book, if we understand that much imagery is used (that which apostle John could hardly explain either) & timelines too, are cloudy. To me what would be more important in this instance, is that I know that the one who teaches from the Word, is indeed a man of God, gifted to teach & does so guardedly when the meaning or wording is unclear. There are many out there who will always seek to distort the Truth (Satan's ploy), & many believers fall into damnable heresies ( 2 Pet 2:1), but the Spirit will reveal.

It really saddenz me that no church that I know will just simply ( Read ) the entire booke of Revelation chapter by chapter and verse by verse onely and without human interpretation, let the precious Word of the Living God do that becuz wen we allow the most Blessed Holy Spirit do that then hey we will alwayz b told the Trueth and nothin but the Trueth :)

When preachers teach on the subject of the Great Tribulation & of end times, they will touch on some or all of these associated chapters in the Book of Revelation. Maybe some preachers believe that Christians will not be around to experience this horrendous time on Earth, so there's little point in making a major study of it. I would be interested to know which cults you refer to that "dapple with it"? And what points do they make from it? Revelation has a lot of imagery, as revealed to the apostle John. He reported what he saw by vision/dream from the angel; he probably had limited understanding of some things, but he recorded what God wanted us to know.

Why is it that we do not hear about the seal of the living God? No one preaches on the topic. It is so important for the nation Israel yet no preachers in the West touch the subject. " ... And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads..." Only cults dapple with it.

Believers know this: 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation (TROUBLE) enter into the kingdom of God.
People we are promised persecution and trouble in this world. Jesus warned us and it is coming as a storm. Now is the calm before the storm. Stay close to Jesus as that is all we shall have in this world and what is coming

Please read vs 9 again -- ".... if any man worship the beast or his image and receive his mark ....
I believe the mass of blood is from those who have done this. The exact amount is no nearly as important as the message - all will be slain who have worshiped the beast or his image!

Amen. its the blind leading the blind. he said i come as a theif in the dark... know why that is? becaquse the whole world id in darkness.. in there minds.. he sai d i will raise yhem up at the last day.. and he has raised us elect in our minds. were alive were standing. he said arise o sleeper and christ light will shine on you. standing firm in yah

Enough blood to fill 1,600 furlongs as high as a horse's bridle. What has that got to do with the White House? Zero. It specifically states an amount of blood. It makes no mention of this amount of blood coincidentally also matching an address. Do not add or take away from God's word. God's word said there will be blood as high as a horse's bridle for 1,600 furlongs. Period.

1600 Penn. Ave. Who knows? Could be.

Misplaced loyalty to who or what?

the defiled woman the natural woman but even the beast already mentined by John in the book of revelation. if it were so there were no redemption for all the women of world. we must be carefull when condeming not to condemned with women has a great in the redemptiom or this world and eveyone knows that prety well. if you look back you'll see all the women that followed our lord jesus in the days

show me the return of JESUS WITH OUR REWARDS AND THE WORLD WILL RECEIVED THERE DUE WRATH THAT IS POUR OUT ON THEM

Re. verse 20: " ...a thousand and six hundred furlongs." I see a lot of present day similarities and symbolism. Could this allude to the address of the White House?

Verse 6~Angels have a share in the preaching of the good news being done today.

The 7 th trump is the key. In the days of the voice of the 7 th trumpet the mystery shall be finished. Behold I come quickly. Then we shall all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible. To meet the lord in the air. The son of man sitting on the cloud. After the firstfruits (the 144000).

Disciple As it were in the days of Noah they were eating, drinking and having a party. When antichrist or instead of Christ shows off his supernatural powers and stands in Jerusalem claiming he is God the world will believe and they will be eating and drinking and having a party but election they will be delivered up to death which is to say Satan and they stand and the Holy Spirit of God speaks.

Verse 12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

This we should all do, for the time is at hand ( Rev 1:3).