Romans Chapter 12 Discussion Page 3

Hello, I believe the answer to your first question is 'yes.' Link - The answer to your second question is 'no' in my opinion. If you did nothing wrong and were betrayed, you don't need to apologize for your actions if you did nothing wrong. Forgiveness is different than apologizing for ones bad behavior. Forgiveness is mostly an action within your own heart- to release anger bitterness resentment vengeance and all the toxic feelings someone may carry when wronged. It does you no good and its against God's scripture. Forgiveness can be either in person or not. If the person may put you at physical risk of harm, then in person is not a healthy option. There are other ways to communicate if needed. You can also forgive without communicating. Many people find it helpful to write a letter expressing all your injustices toward the person then symbolically burning it and forgiving them and wiping it clean from your heart and thoughts. This process is in a way like Jesus dying for you and forgiving your sins. God bless!

Verse 11-We must have a constant flow of God's holy spirit in order to be aglow with the spirit and be enthusiastic.

The air in Nova Scotia must be thin enough to keep just enough oxygen flowing to ones brain ! Aye!. This web site moves quite well with the help of the holy spirit ! Thank you for your concern. Any direction the reader needs here can be explained through his own revelation and without those who wish only to babel! I have been on this site for some time and except that we may have differences in understanding, but there is a line one crosses when you proclaim we are all lost! If you have nothing more than this ,please take up your bed and leave.

To STANJETT

Reviewing all your vain 'Rhetoric' ( Matthew 15:9), it is obvious that your mind has been corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ ( 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Timothy 1:3; 4:1; Hebr. 13:9; 2 Peter 3:17; Jude 4).

Please study who the 'Holy Ghost' is and what it means to sin against the 'Holy Ghost' ( Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10).

Matthew 9:12. They (the believers) that be whole need not a physician (Christ), but they that are sick (sinners). Trust us; the large majority of people on this website are 'not well'.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

Paul is talking to the church.

Explain please

Blessed morning Teboho

It was blessed to be under both we were taught by the teacher when she preached,and you will find yourself by the altar during his preaching . You can tell the difference .........The difference to my understanding is teaching deals with educating ,teaching the word of God in depth to be understood so we can grow to become righteous Christians.



Ministering is touching on areas that affects us daily and convicting sinners backsliders and backsliders

at heart giving the answers from GOD'S word ( not the world's system) that will bring breakthrough to set free ,to turn hearts to GOD comfort, peace and hope ,

ministering to the needs of people

Ministering is like giving medication to the sick

Because these are the last days, we who love God are all being tested and burdened to the very limit. Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. You have his life in you. That life will never fail you . it's not an easy fix. The days are evil. Always stay in the light, and be a light to others. Peace

whenever something is burdening me i realize that i am being overcome . im so thankful for this verse. overcoming evil with good is a hard one though. any advice on how this can be done would be welcomed. " Brethren pray for us"

On ROMANS 12:2

The Word of God is God ( John 1:1) and is not of any private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20).

The word 'Repent' in different forms (repent, repentance, repented, repentest, repenteth, repenting, repentings) is mentioned 110 times in the KJV, and means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider.

It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9) and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( Matthew 7:7; John 14:17).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), as mankind follows after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Rev. 12:9).

It is only by revelation of God that people will come to know the true Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1), and only then will you be able to overcome the spirit of this world ( 1 John 5:4; Rev. 3:21) and learn what 'True Repentance' means, and how this whole world has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9). It should also be remembered that it is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

LUKE 15:10. LIKEWISE, I SAY UNTO YOU, THERE IS JOY IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ANGELS OF GOD OVER ONE SINNER THAT REPENTETH

Paul, explains the spiritual body of Christ. A functioning body,like our own personal physical bodies. Yet too see, within this body there are different children with different gifts! What is profound is that when we understand these truths , the renewing of the mind Paul speaks of is less confrontational, allowing the spirit in each of us to have more significance in the development of our whole person!(sanctification-conversion) Eye hath not seen or ear heard neither entered into the heart of man the things that God has prepared for them that love Him. Our sin is the dimension in man's soul that prevents him from moving mountains!

Amen Bob! Thank you for sharing that.

Verse 2

It was once said this book (bible) will keep you from sin or sin will keep you from this book .

The renewing of our mind with Gods mind through his word is essential.

Teboho thank you for that question. The words ministry and teach are mentioned many times in the word of God and we must ask the Holy Spirit to help us with understanding what context it is being used in for example Romans 12:7 reads "Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching: Now the word ministry can mean to hold a position of leadership example Pastor, Decon and so on and it can also mean to serve or in other words "wait" as in waiter get it, lol then if take the word wait it means to allow time to go by or to service, I am doing this to let you know that ministries have a function in the body of Christ and if you study Gods word he will "Teach" your Ministry through the Holy Spirit. God Bless you and remember One God One Body...

Romans 12:20. What is the the meaning of heap coals of fire on his head?

TEBOHO i believe that ministering in the KJV relates to taking care of the every day business of the Church, such as the Levites did within the temple where Moses placed the Ark and all the other items God commanded him to build. Teaching I believe is the work of Moses, Jesus and others, to give/explain the word of God. and to show us what laws God wants us to follow and how to be saved in order to receive a place in the Kingdom of God.

Teboho, apologies for neglecting this - I assumed that the word 'ministering' was the main focus here.

If I could give the Greek here: 'didaskon' = to teach, instruct or impart knowledge. It is used many times in the NT as it spoke of Jesus teaching (as in Mt 21:23), those from the apostles (2 Thes 2:15), or teaching within the Church ( 1 Tim 3:2, 2 Tim 2:24, where this gift is generally exercised by the elders who were carefully appointed to lead the Church to fulfil this important function). Often these days, the role of a Pastor (Gk. Poimen) is also seen as not only a shepherd of the flock, but also the Church leader & elder, but scripturally evident, a pastor's role is a shepherd/guide, who may or may not be an elder or have the gift of teaching.

Dear Chris

Thanks for that but you did not answer me fully. I asked what the difference between Ministering and Teaching is. You touched on the first and not the latter. Please assist and explain fully

God Bless

Teboho, if I may offer my understanding on these words. I see these as two distinct types of ministry in the Church just as the other verses that speak of those who encourage others or show mercy are also very useful in the building up of God's people. So, the Gk. word for 'Ministry' (v 7) is 'diakonia', otherwise translated as deaconship or service. So, the work of a deacon would come under the meaning of this word as well as others fulfilling this type of service, which must also include the sisters in a fellowship, who wonderfully serve in many other ways. I see Paul in this chapter trying to point out that whatever gift is given to us by the Spirit, we must use it diligently & cheerfully, for the blessing of the Church & not for our profit or elevation. I hope this helps you.

Dear Adam

What is the difference between Teaching and Ministering that is described in Romans chapt 12vs 7.. I have asked this before and didn't get a response.

God bless

Teboho

Comments by Alex on how Jesus will fulfil the Law. The law will be fulfilled in us sinners by the NEW BIRTH I.E. HIS DEATH, When a seed dies it multiplies ,he told the Greeks ( Gentiles ) Unless a seed dies it abide alone, But if it dies it will bring forth much fruit impling multiplication via his seed etc, Had he not died there wd have been only 1 Christ but b/c of his death he will be multiplied as the stars of heaven, That was the great PROMISE i will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, That we might all get a seed to initiate a birth of Christ in us.Every man is gonna get a measure of faith. That good seed is the Word,The contents of that book in the right hand of the Father.Listen carefully Smite the shephard ( his death ) and the sheep will be scattered, THEN I WILL TURN MY HAND TO THE LITTLE ONES, spirits HIS OFFSPRING,Multiplication,She brought forth a man Child which was the H.G. its his children that are gonna be born in us sinners ( our new birth ) AND THEM THAT ARE BORN OF GOD CANNOT SIN thats our new inner man the H.G. REMEMBER unless ya receive the kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in,that heavenly Child is the result of his seed that is gonna be born in us sinners. Thats what he was trying to tell th GREEKS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL EVER SEE HIM IS IF YOU BIRTH HIM , and them that are born of God cannot Sin simply b.c that God seed remains in us,we are dead but Christ lives in us . Thats y he always refered to himself as the son of man,Mankind is gonna birth Christ,I.E. BRING FORTH FRUIT UNTO GOD, Smite the shephard and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the little ones thats the babes and sucklings that is gonna result from his seed the Word. Thus they come in his Name whosoever receives one such Child in MY NAME. In his name implies he is the FATHER OF THE H.G. the father will send th H.G IN MY NAME. Thus the Godhead is Father Son and GRANSON. THATS Y HE SAID MY NAME IS ABRAHAM ISSAC AND JACOB .GB

Page 3.

Neither. Because the Law of the Life-giving Spirit has taken those righteous commandments of God & now written them in our hearts ( Heb 10:16). Isn't this then the same thing as being obedient to the Law? No, when we obey the Holy Spirit & not looking to the letter of the Law, our obedience to God then comes out of a renewed heart/spirit that has all that is necessary to obey Him. And this also includes the Fruit of the Spirit, walking in the Spirit & the Law of the Spirit & the Law of Liberty (Js 2:12). So when the Law says, Do not kill, we now know that it also applies to those who are angry with another without cause. When the Law says, Do not commit adultery, it now means even just the act of looking at a woman with lust ( Mt 5:21,22,28,29). If we want to buy a bunch of grapes, are we immediately convicted if we want to just take one to check if it is sweet? Or, do we justify our actions?

We have never denied the righteousness of God's Laws, but the Scripture tells us that only through Jesus we can be saved & only by His Spirit we can keep God's Laws that went beyond the letter & that which is now inscribed in our hearts. So even if we didn't have Scriptures as mentioned in Matthew 5 to teach us, I know we would still be aware of its Truth as the Spirit teaches us God's Holy demands upon us. We don't need to know God's Laws as they are already written in our hearts & we can choose to obey to enjoy God's fellowship & favour or disobey so allowing our sinful nature to resurrect itself.

Page 2.

Mercy Seat ( 1 Jn 2:1. God now meets us through Christ Who is our Mercy Seat, for the expiation of our sins & averting the Wrath of God from us).

So, it is only through Christ that we can see God's Holy requirement for His people (Jew & Gentile alike). If God saw us through the keeping (obedience) to the OT Law, then the Cross of Christ is made pointless & of no effect. Hence, Rom 8:3 reminds us that the Law was weak through the flesh (i.e. inadequate/ineffective because of our inability to fulfil the whole Law). If we sinned in even one aspect of the Law, we have sinned in all (Js 2:10). There was nothing wrong with the Law: it was our inability to keep the whole Law that proved our sinfulness, which meant that God had to send His Son, His Word in the flesh to take the punishment for us. Why? So that the righteousness of the Law might then be fulfilled in us & not in the keeping of the Law.

Are they correct, who say that we must obey the Law? If they maintain that we have to obey God's Law to the letter as well as being saved by grace through faith, then that belief is in direct violation to the meaning of the Cross & what the apostles preached & gave their lives for. In biblical terms, we never have to obey God's Laws as given to Israel to be right before God, because they could never work; we now look to Jesus Who fulfilled those righteous Laws in Himself, so that our focus is not on the letter but on the spirit of the law. So, Rom 8:1,2 gives the best description (transliterated): we who believe in Christ are no longer condemned by the Law, because we now live by the Spirit of God. Why? Because the LAW OF THE LIFE GIVING SPIRIT has set us free from the Law that only showed us our sin & brought death. And so how does this work out in our obedience to God? Do we still come by faith in Jesus & obey the Law to complement it? Or, if that is harsh, then maybe we just keep the Laws in our minds to guide us in our Christian walk? (onto Page 3.)

Page 1.

Teboho, what has been suggested to you concerning obedience to the Law is not entirely correct as far as the biblical meaning & application are concerned. Maybe it's only on a technical point but when it comes to such an important subject, we need to understand the Scriptures correctly so there is not only no confusion in our minds but also to others when they hear/read this message. So, in defence of the Word on this subject, I submit the following for your consideration & comparison to what you have heard elsewhere.

I doubt if anyone who truly believes in God, in His Son & the Word, could ever say that 'Christians are free to do whatever they like since we are not under the law': this is called antinomianism ("freed from moral law by virtue of the Grace given in & through Christ"). To say this, shows our gross misunderstanding of God's Laws, Whose "Laws are holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Rom 7:12).

So the questions that we need to ask & address: what are the Laws of God, to whom were they given & what was their purpose? We know that all the Laws given to Israel (as shown in Exodus & Leviticus mainly) were given to them & not to the Gentiles (these were not God's chosen people & not in God's (OT) view for blessing & eternal life). These Laws (the whole Law, including those pertaining to ceremony, festivals, daily life), including circumcision, these made Israel distinct from everyone else, as well as the Tabernacle with the Mercy Seat, where God met with His people. So, all the commandments given to Israel, not only identified them as God's Chosen, but also, through prophecy, pointed to a later, perfect fulfilment of them. Therefore, we understand that God's Son, Jesus Christ, was sent in complete fulfilment of those prophecies, whether in the Law ( Mt 5:17), Circumcision (not cut in the flesh but in the heart by Christ's sacrifice & worshipping God in the spirit, Phil 3:3-5; Col 2:11), (cont'd on Page 2.)

Wherefore the law (Ten Commandments). was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If you broke even one of the Ten Commandments, you were guilty of all.

Then Jesus gave us 2 new commandments; that if we live our lives by them, we won't need the Ten to teach us again.

It's a process of becoming free to love one another. A prophetic gifting doesn't give us permission to trample on others who have no clue. Love goes where law can't. Most unsaved people know they are sinners. The need to know about Grace; unmerited favor of God.

If you're grafted into God, you'll produce fruit of the new Life.

It's not a matter of the Old Testament no longer having relevance anymore. It does. There are many scriptures there, about Jesus before He was born as the Son of Man.

Also, scripture to us about conditions preceding the End of Days. There are plenty of those in both Testaments. Proverbs are excellent for anyone needing Wisdom; help in living alongside foolish unsaved people. Jesus never railed on people: His heart was Mercy and Righteousness. He wanted to come and set us free from the taskmaster of trying to obey the Torah. NOW Jesus is the only sacrifice that God accepts. He came to earth, fulfilled every jot and tittle of The Law; and sat down at the right Hand of God; the work complete.

He is now everyone's ADVOCATE (or attorney), when Satan comes Accusing us of gross or little sin, Before Almighty God!! Jesus consults in the Lambs Book of Life (names of the saved)....He says this one is MINE. God says: CASE DISMISSED!!! All of your days on earth are recorded in a Book; including your day of birth & death. The Book Of Remembrance: has all the things you have Spoken out loud about God and Jesus.

Tell someone about Jesus and what He's done for you. Even strangers.

Angels lean in to hear your praise.

I think the word 'end' here is similar to the word fulfill. Paul wrote Romans and is not saying it's ok to sin. We're saved by grace, but this is provided we are a Christian following Christ. Notice what Paul writes in the next chapter: Romans 11:19-23 "...if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." To me this is similar to Paul saying Romans 6:1. Warning against people who want to abuse the gift. Also similar to Hebrews 10:26. Romans 7 and James 2 explain this. Paul struggles with sin as he says in Romans 7:15 and is trying hard to obey and avoid sin. Rom 7:12 Paul says the law is holy, just and good. God bless...

Dear Adam,

Many thanks for the detailed explanation. Are you then able to provide me with a simple interpretation of Romans chapt 10 vs 4. I believe the view that the new testiment is replaced by the old testement is confused by the above. Hence require an interpretation of this.

God bless.

Hello, yes, I believe the whole Bible applies. I've heard people claim that Jesus fulfilling the law is abolishing the law, that it no longer applies whatsoever. Jesus already said that is wrong in the exact same verse of Matthew 5:17. He said he was not abolishing the law. So, I believe Jesus over what random people say. Fulfilling the law was through his death to pay for our sins, so we have grace as long as we follow Jesus- this is an active pursuit though. But that doesn't mean the law is gone. Keep in mind that Israelites has more than just moral law, but civil law, and ceremonial law. We don't need to follow the Israelite specific laws, just moral law. For example, 'do not kill'. Are some claiming that it's now just fine to kill your neighbor because Jesus fulfilled the law? That would be a very difficult argument for one to make that it's totally good to kill, when the Bible clearly says the opposite.

Jesus already said what happens to people who are inactive, who do nothing, who blaspheme, who follow the world, who use grace as an excuse to sin as much as possible Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus says if you love him, then keep his commandments. John 14:15. If you don't keep them, you don't love him. If you don't love him and don't follow him, is it likely you'll be invited to spend eternity with him in heaven? Jesus warned his followers repeatedly through parables that most people will go to hell. It's interesting how some Christians are trying to claim sin is okay, that it doesn't matter and that it's wrong to say it's wrong. Satan is the great deceiver and even works within the community of believers to spread his lies. It's clear what Jesus already said, so I'm going to believe and follow him and his words, not the words of man.

James 2 and Romans 6 explain this.

Note that this is my belief through years of Bible study and prayer and you will have other Christians claim otherwise. I already know all their arguments and find them unbiblical. God bless...

Explain in detail when you said the old testement still applies. I hear pastors, say we are under the new covenant or new testiment and not the old testimement or old covenant/mosaic laws. What in the old testiment is still applicable?

God bless

romans 10:4 rightouseness, which is in repentence, confession and obedience and I would say forgiveness