Romans Chapter 16 Discussion

Hi G.M. Donnetta....The most blessed woman in the bible was Mary...Simply b/c she birth Christ our savior but this is an interesting question....When that woman in luke 11:28... was praising Mary Jesus replied More blessed are them that hear my Words and keeps them....Impling that we can all birth Christ in our hearts by hearing his words as the parable of the sower tells us of them that hear and keeps his Words....The Wheat is a baby Christ...Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in....That Woman ( humanity ) in Rev 12:10 is birthing another Christ..A Baby Christ the Son of man...mankinds fruit unto God....The wheat is a baby Christ simply b/c the sower of that good seed is Christ the bridegroom....And his words are his seeds....When he breathe on them he was propagating very God ...Thus them that hear his Words and keeps them are gonna birth a baby Christ....Which is the H.G. that Child of Promise....Thus we are all gonna be his mother when that book is opened that contains the words of life...That Jesus wrote with his own blood.....Who are my Mother and Brethren Jesus asked.... then he answered himself saying them that hears my words ( his seeds) and keeps them which will initiate a birth of Christ in us....She brought forth a manchild that is gonna rule all nations....which is the H.G. that Child of Promise to all the world....That woman in Rev 12 is humanity that hears his Words and keeps them resulting in a pregnancy then that New BIRTH....Whosoever receives one such child in my name receives me....Thats y he is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is that New BORN babe desiring the sincere milk of the word....Which is the H.G. our new heart and new spirit our new innerman....That New Creature ok lemme go

Who are the most blessed women in the bible

Your online bible has helped me very much. For this I say: Thank You and may God bless you in Jesus Christ's name, Amen.

I Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a (man) desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the (husband) of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Read the chapter I Timothy 3:1-16

I fully agree GiGi. Sisters in the NT Church then, as they do now, play an extremely vital role in Church life - they certainly filled the 'deaconess' role, without officially being named as such. But then, what's in a name?

I believe that women were deaconesses, but I do not know the verses that speak to this. These women helped to take care of widows, orphans, teach younger women, and other works of service in the church. I believe they were appointed and so served in an official position, but not one over men.

Thank you Chris. Thanks for indirectly reminding me that the same Greek word can be translated as servant and deacon. My concern was formation of theology on the basis of the word deacon . I believe that many people are aware that thousands of churches have women pastors. It is not my intention to be insensitive . However I believe that as Christians we should be able to say politely that a practice is inconsistent with scriptures.

Hi Elroy. I don't believe the intent of this Scripture, or any other portion, ever indicates that women are to hold official pastor/elder/deacon positions. In the case of Phoebe, she was recognized as one who served, or helped, in the Church at Cenchrea. It may have been more than a general form of assistance & more of an official one, nevertheless, she was especially useful & commended for her service. I doubt whether she, or any other sister, were appointed as elders/pastors in the leadership/teaching ministry of the Church.

So even if other Bible versions might use 'deacon', it would be appropriate, as this is the meaning of that word, but it doesn't imply an official position in the Bible - some Churches now would however make it an official position. The point is, whether recognized as one or not, sisters in the Church have an important role in the life & development of Christ's Body, as we all must, using our gifts for the Lord & His people.

Part 2

Titus 1:6-9

6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

I strongly disagree with any comment posted on this discussion concerning women to have their rights to teach and preach in the churches because according to the scriptures as it is written in:

1 Corinthians 11:1-3

1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:36-38,40

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

1 Timothy 3:1-5

1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Titus 1:6-7

6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Car,

I believe a woman on fire for Jesus, can lead in an intercessory prayer group. We need people who can tear down strongholds of self-doubt; to do some business with the Holy Spirits leadership.

Study on how Jesus prayed. Even King David in the Psalms. Children and teenagers in Proverbs. Always Ephesians 6 so we can understand our enemies are invisible; that's why we put on our Armor. Deborah in the Book of Judges came on the scene when their was need for strong leadership was imperative. We can all prevail with unshakable faith in prayer.

Take the prayer requests, pray for individuals; lay hands on numerous requests, lay hands on them in the Prayers of AGREEMENT is powerful. God knows each name on the Prayer List! Do not doubt that.

God is omnipresent and He blesses prayer ministries. All women should be taught to lead so no one person has to do it every time you come together. You can get a lot done in an hour before or after church.

All we have to do is touch God with our faith.

My little grandmother sent me love letters from Jesus when I was in my sinful life. I always thought about that drawer full of her love and prayers for me. That reality tore down satans kingdom in my life and then The Kingdom of God flooded into my present life.

Our world is getting darker now and it's time to Let Your Light Shine. You know I watched that War Room DVD. It makes me think of both my Christian Grandmother's. They are who I want to see 2nd, in heaven.

Go get em.

Salute Jesse that he fulfilled the order to make all the gentiles obedient in word and deed.

When our late beloved Asst. Pastor (female) was still with us, she used to preach at Church too but now she's with The LORD in Heaven. Our beloved Pastor (male) is still unable to preach at Church due to his health condition.

Right now, men preachers are the ones assigned to preach at Church (main and outreach stations).

There are endless options to serve The LORD our GOD JESUS CHRIST. For women alone, we have a big list we can choose from like in my case, singing to GOD as part of choir members, setting up the curtains, cleaning the toilets, testifying for the manifold blessings, and miraculous healing from GOD (during our testimony portion) and just being super happy receiving The Holy Spirit in The Name of JESUS at our Church. I don't have kids yet but GOD-willing, I would love to have a baby boy for some reason and see him knowing and understanding about GOD's love.

GOD is The GOD of peace and orderliness. HE HIMSELF even chose to be born as a Son of Man to give HIS Powerful Name to us which is JESUS.

The order then is:

1) GOD

2) Man

3) Woman

4) Children of GOD

Now I feel like answering your question based on what I see at our Church which works perfectly fine for us, no complaints:

Only men do the preaching time.

Some moms, sisters, and girlfriends there teach kids during Sunday school for cute Bible study on the side. But most women just sit there and listen during the preaching time.

I haven't seen children preach at the pulpit but rather they just enjoy being kids there. Some attend the Bible study for kids, some join the kiddy cherubims choir, others just cry and laugh - whatever they please.

It's such a beautiful Church. If you're looking for one, please see: The JESUS Miracle Crusade International Ministry

Regardless, please do yourself a favor and continue in the faith in and obedience to GOD. HALLELUJAH! PRAISE THE LORD!

Albert,

1 Timothy 2:11-15 gives us instruction on the proper function of the church. In the church, a woman is not to teach men or be placed in a position of authority over the men.

Verse 12 says, But I suffer not, that is I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man.

We've got two things here. I do not allow a woman to teach. There's one. It doesn't say anything about men. Nor, to usurp authority over the man, which is why they shouldn't teach.

The term usurp authority over the man is the word authenticate. And it means that the woman is not to take the authenticity of man, what the male was created to do.

We read in Titus that the women are to take the younger women and teach them how to keep their home and love their husband and raise their children.



We're talking about doctrinal issues in the church. A woman is not to teach, nor to take the authenticity of man, don't take over for him, but to be in silence. That's what Paul said. They are to learn in silence.

This is not to say that women are not good teachers. But God's proper order in the church does not allow for the woman to teach the men or be in a position of authority over the men in the church.

I know this is not a popular teaching in today's society but this is what the Bible teaches. I personally think there are many women who can do a far better job than some of the men in the church, but God's word simply does not allow it. How do we bypass verse 12 with a clear conscience?

Joel 2:28-32

is a prophesy about the Last Days.

Servants and hand maids are we.

If we pray always to the Lord of the Harvest, God will arrange divine appointments. That's the first thing Jesus taught me about being an evangelist: one who carries the Good News.

All things work together for good...

I think everything should be done decently and in order, as the Bible teaches. If God calls someone to ministry, He Will make a way for it.

The Tree (Jesus) is known by its Fruit. Without the Anointing of the Holy Spirit; the way will be difficult. Prepare. Follow Jesus.

Can women teach in the church? men? women? children? be a helper to the pastor?

stablish you according to my Gospel; v.25 = Paul used the expression, "my Gospel", at least three times in his writings (see Rom. 2:16; 16:25; 2Tim. 2:8), and possibly even more so in similar phraseology. The Greek could correctly translate into "according to the Gospel which I preach".

This is the first occurrence wherein Paul personalized the Gospel by describing it as "my Gospel". Paul so thoroughly identified with the Gospel, and of JESUS CHRIST as his LORD and SAVIOR, both through personal experience and throughout his ministry, that he owned it as "my Gospel".

When writing to the Thessalonian Church, he personalized the Gospel with the personal plural pronoun "our" in his expression, "our Gospel" (1Thes. 1:5; 2Thes. 2:14). There, the pronoun "our" refers to Silvanus (Silas) and Timotheus (Timothy) (see 1Thes. 1:1; 2Thes. 1:1), both of whom Paul included in his salutations to the Thessalonian Church.

"my Gospel"; v.25 (cont.) This is the same Gospel of which Paul proclaimed, "I certify you, brethren, that the Gospel which was preached of me [or "which I preach"] is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST" ( Gal. 1:11-12). Thus, the Gospel is not Paul's as its originator, but rather, Paul's because JESUS CHRIST revealed it to him "that I (Paul) might preach HIM (GOD's SON JESUS CHRIST) among the heathen" ( Gal. 1:16).

The reader should also consider the contexts in which Paul distinguished "my" Gospel from that of

+ those who Paul described as "them that are con-tentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unright-eousness" ( Rom. 2:8). This also includes Judaizers who coerced and manipulated their subjects to obey the Law so that they could "make [their own] boast of GOD" ( Rom. 2:8 & 23).

+ "them which cause divisions and offenses con-trary to the Doctrine which ye (Roman Christians) have learned" ( Rom. 16:17; cp. v.18).

+ Hymenaeus and Philetus, both of whom taught "that the Resurrection is past already" ( 2Tim. 2:18). Of note, Paul did not specify that which these two heretics taught pertaining to the resurrection, but their teaching was certainly a perversion.

You're quite right Joe, that Paul was at Corinth when the Romans letter was written & then planned to go to Jerusalem to deliver the collection received for the poor folk in Palestine. However, his plans to go to Rome & onto Spain ( Romans 15:24) changed, when he was arrested in Jerusalem & so he may never have got to see the Roman believers, nor did he get to Spain.

Therefore, I understand the salutation given for Andronicus & Junia (his kinsmen & fellow prisoners), probably relate to one of his three imprisonments, that we know of. We're not told which one, or even if Paul was in custody at other times that is not written about in the Scriptures. Anyway, he knew that couple well enough & no doubt their witness was also vibrant as his was, that brought them into Roman bondage at some point.

I am confused - Romans 16:7 says "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners"

However, I thought Paul was at Corinth and then travelling to Jerusalem at the time this epistle was written - not yet a prisoner in Rome.

Maybe the explanation is "fellowprisoners" in Jesus Christ.

Will someone please clarify? TIA.

I love god

"Good words & fair speeches". Translated from the Greek (the original language), this would be "smooth talk & polished, captivating language".

There were those in the Church that wanted to pervert the doctrines & teachings given by the apostles to the Church. They did so by using special enticing words & dynamic preaching which no doubt appealed to the hearers & sounded convincing. Many within the Church may have been swayed by their 'performance' looking at the preacher rather that what is preached.

It even happens today as many are so gripped by some speakers, the speakers can say just about anything & the Christian will accept it as Truth. Paul was warning the Church in Rome to take particular care & give proper attention to God's Word.

please explain me aboiut the FAIR SPEECHES according to the screpture.

Joe, we don't get the full picture of people or events in Scripture, so one can only try & put the pieces together to gain some understanding. Paul had never been to Rome - actually he was anxious to visit them & so wrote this letter, Romans, (his steno being Tertius, as we understand that Paul had some vision problem: Gal 6:11), to prepare for that visit. So, he wrote this letter from Corinth & from there went to Jerusalem to deliver the money he was collecting from Corinth for the poor in Jerusalem. Then after doing that, his intention was to visit Rome & go onto Spain (15:24). All these plans fell apart as he was arrested in Jerusalem & eventually taken to Rome as a prisoner.

So all these people that he mentions in Romans chap 16 who belonged or associated to a Church he never visited has perplexed us. Paul also gives similar greetings to the Church at Colosse ( Colossians 4:7 ff), a Church he also never visited. But we think that those people that he mentioned in Romans were those he had met & acquainted with in his travels or at least heard specifically of them through others & remembered them in his prayers: hence naming them specifically.

Priscilla & Aquila were known to Paul ( Acts 18:1-3 & 18-21) when he left them at Ephesus while he went on to Caesarea. So in their travels, they must have been in Rome ministering there at this time of the epistle.

With Phebe, I don't think she travelled with Paul as all his travel plans were changed after his arrest, but was probably charged to carry this epistle to the Roman Church. I see Paul truly commending her to them as his representative, envoy & forward party preparing for his planned visit. I hope this quick account helps you.

I find some names and places by Googling them and typing 'Bible' after it. Many Bibles don't have Very good maps.

Paul was never married. There are many women in the Bible who followed Jesus and the disciples doing chores, meals and being able to hear some teachings too.

Same with Paul and those that traveled with him also.

Jesus first appeared to Mary Magdalene after His resurrection. She had been a prostitute but was radically saved and joined the group he traveled with.

Despite what Hollywood films often perverts, there was nothing dishonorable going on. The best film to watch is Jesus Of Nazareth: very close to scripture.

We are all supposed to follow Jesus. He's alive and still calls people into ministry to this day.

Although I have read this chapter numerous times, I do not understand it. Paul says "greet ... and salute ... about various people.

Where were these people physically located? In or around Corinth?

vs 3: "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:" makes it seem as if Priscilla & Aquila were actually going to Rome, along with Phebe, to deliver the letter.

Or, as if the Romans had come to Corinth and are being introduced by Paul to the Corinthians.

It says I Tertius, and Tertius is a slave name. And the name Tertius means three. Many of the lower class slaves were numbers. They were not names.

It says I Tertius, who wrote this epistle. He was Paul's amanuensis. Paul dictated the letter to Tertius. I salute you in the Lord.

So Paul let him. Paul said go ahead, if you want to greet him, put in your own greeting, number 3!

In my understanding Paul wrote this epistle,

Why in this verse do we read . I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in ten Lord. ?

Thanks Ian..

Shirley, that passage in Romans 16 speaks of the apostle Paul referring to those who were trying to cause divisions in the Church by misusing the Word of God that was taught to them by Paul. So to those who were disruptive & forceful would be dealt with by the God of Peace. He would "bruise Satan under your feet shortly...". A similar word was used in Genesis 3:15 speaking of Jesus 'bruising' Satan's head, while Satan 'bruises' Jesus' heel (at the Cross). So the word 'bruise' means: to subdue or to have victory over.

What do verses 20 mean?