Warning: session_start(): open(/var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80/sess_584rq5bt96m7vjja1qvk790r08, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Book-Discussion/bookdiscuss.php on line 2
Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Book-Discussion/bookdiscuss.php on line 2 Romans Chapter 3 Discussion
Seek FIRST the Mercy Seat. Christ is our Mercy Seat in heaven, where Christ's Blood has been applied for sinners on the gold lid of the true Ark of the Covenant, in the True Tabernacle in heaven. Seek FIRST His Mercy Seat.
Romans 3 is a key chapter in the New Testament. We all come to God on an equal basis- SINNERS in need of His Salvation. God has set forth Christ as our MERCY SEAT, we come to God by Faith in Christ and His BLOOD shed for SIN.
Asong of degrees of David Lord my heart in not haughty nor mine eyes lofty neither do l exercise my self in great matters or in things for high for me Amen
They looked unto him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed. This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them. O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
Psalm 23:5-6
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Nahum 1:17
The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 Timothy 4:4-5
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, IF it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind (Bible), that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Note these verses on the back page of your Bible. For days that go wrong and make us doubt.
What is argued is: Romans 11:6, but in context it's the grace extended to Gentiles Romans 11:16-27, also read whole chapter Romans 11,
& Galatians 2:16, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'' the works of the law are in Gen. Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus. Galatians 3,
& Galatians 2:8,9, but we can't ignore Galatians 2:10,
& 2Timothy 1:9 , Titus 3, Hebrews 4, Hebrews 4:11,
However again we can't ignore 2Timothy 3:16-17, Titus 1:15,16, Titus 2, Hebrews 10:24, James 3:13, 1Peter 2:12, Revelation 2:26,
Grace is given without expecting anything in return.
WORKS is something done in return for payment or wages.
Example: sin's wages are death
BUT THE GIFT of the Grace of God is forgiveness.
I sure have met a lot of people that don't believe there are wages for sin.
I watched this new video on Hurricane Andrew. This woman's house was rubble. Rather than be happy her husband and children survived-she wailed and railed on God for destroying her house! It was rant.
I just bowed my head because it hurt my heart when we blame God for all losses. But we barely give thanks for blessings.
Hi Tony Brother read your commentary and scripturally right on faith is the bridge that spans the casim between the natural man and God that faith is Jesus Christ. When someone says I need more faith not true we were given the faith of Jesus Christ when we were born again. Now over time we will get better in believing action on the scripture and understanding and walk but that is in the category of carrying what the spirit wants us to do. That's why technically there was no spiritual faith in old testament because it says in Galatians before faith came, spiritual faith came on the day of pentecost which is the faith of Jesus Christ. The word pistis could be translated faith or believing there are times when it was translated faith before pentecost when it should have been believing.
Hello Chris, You are correct about Romans 3:4, I gave a wrong text! Thank you for your comments. Some may read our thinking as a difference in semantics. Time for the Greek. Romans 3:22 reads in the KJV, "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe." By faith of Jesus Christ in the Greek reads, , "By THE faith of Jesus Christ," or the faith that comes through Him. In Acts 3:16, "The faith which is From Him" is, " " If instead the phrase reads "faith IN Jesus Christ'" it could only mean OUR faith in Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:20 reads in the Greek, , . Translators have often used their own theology which can drastically change the true intent of the inspired writes of Scripture. For instance, look up the Greek for "torment" in Rev 20:10. Tell me the actual word.
I have experienced a profound faith in Christ. Only He could say, at the tomb of Lazarus, John 11:42, of the Father, "I know You always hear Me." My faith has grown to know our Father always hears me if He hears it from the Son! He is called our Advocate in 1 John 2:1. He defends us before the Father as High Priest, who offers His own life and merits on the sinner's behalf. Heaven has given us the gift of faith, Ephesians 2:8-9, to know, believe and trust ourselves to the High Priest. This is the only way to the Father that pleases Him. We dare not come to Him in our faith. Otherwise, we are entering the Most Holy Place in our own name and dishonor His Holiness.
Chris, my understanding has given me a freedom of absolute surrender to Christ I never experienced. It certainly does not distract my belief in the gospel. I no longer look at my faith to speak to the Father. I now speak to Him through the faith of Jesus. I never have to say again, "I wish I had stronger faith." I do have it! It is my faith in His faith for me!
Hello Tony. I think of Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". We see here that the "Gift of God" is the whole: Grace & Faith. Both are needed from Him to receive His Salvation: the Gift of Grace & the Gift of Faith.
However, I couldn't place which verse(s) you were referring to. Both Romans 3:4 & Galatians 2:20, do not reveal what you suggest. Unless you were thinking of Galatians 3:26; Colossians 1:4; Colossians 2:5; & there may be more. I doubt if the apostle intended to infer that this was a faith generated by one towards attaining Christ, rather that the Gift being given & now existing in the believer, from which comes his varied expressions of that faith.
The text about faith in Christ is not true to the Greek which is plain to read in the original language. reads, "By the faith of Christ. Nestle, 1904, Westcott and Hort 1881, Scrivener's 1894, Tischendorf, 8th Edition 1872, and many others are clear in translating this verse the same. It is inaccurate and misleading to use a translation that promotes the faith of a believer in place of the faith of Christ. This error is also found in the translation of Galatians 2:20 "And the life I now live by faith in Jesu Christ." This last phrase, by faith in Christ can only mean one thing, it means, I am living my life in Christ by my faith. By THE faith OF Jesu Christ, I now live the life of total surrender by the faith of Christ. Therefore, I do not march and grow toward victory, I now live in Christ in victory. I approach our Father through the faith of Christ. He is our Advocate and Mediator before the Father. Of Him alone did God say, "With Him, I am well pleased." We please the Father when we come to Him in the faith of Christ. Example, A father puts money in a bank for his son. The money is under the son's name. He does not have the money himself but he has access to it from anywhere in the world. In a similar way, the faith we need to save us is not within us. It is found at the right hand of God and we draw on it "in Jesus name." Acts 3:16: "And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."
This faith Of Christ takes us to complete dependence on Him through His faith. He offers the secret of Christian victory over the flesh, the world and the devil, His own faith, for us.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
This creates a environment free of Jealousy, hate, and debates etc. all the things that can cause health issues. Also, people will feel this. Show love; people will since this.
Darryl , I am so happy for you , I have known a few people in your situation , I'm very pleased that you have finally got this sorted , much love in Christ .
God has me with great wealth and that I have been except for the Disability Claim that's been APPROVED though my Attorney that's been going on for the last year and 1/2..
It is amazing that you have the gospel layed out through out the all 66 books.
John 5:39-40.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
HEBREWS 10:7-10.
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
I liked what you wrote brother: "The Jews faith looked ahead. The Gentiles faith looks behind."
And yet, the faith that they (the Jews) should have had 'looking ahead' was lacking in so many of them. So the Hebrews writer could say "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them (the Israel under Moses: Hebrews 3 & by extension to the unbelieving Jew of the NT): but the word preached did not profit them, not being MIXED WITH FAITH in them that heard it. ( Hebrews 4:2).
And that Gospel, even though unknown at that time under Moses as we know it now, was indeed the Gospel, since it had its roots in the sacrificial performances that pointed to Christ Who fulfilled them as God's appointed sacrificial Lamb. Yet those sacrifices (& God's Word) did not profit them because of their lack of faith, just as the Sacrifice of Jesus has no profit to anyone who comes to Him without faith.
Romans 3:30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the "CIRCUMCISION BY FAITH," and "UNCIRCUMCISION THROUGH FAITH."
Romans 3:19-20. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
I believe the Jews "BY FAITH " placed there faith in their offerings which pointed towards The Lord, "The sacrifices itself shows you couldn't keep the law."
The Gentiles place their faith on what has taken place, CRUCIFIXION. Jesus came to fulfill all those sacrifices.
The Jews faith looked ahead.
The Gentiles faith looks behind.
Romans 3:24-25. Being justified freely by his grace "THROUGH" THE REDEMPTION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation "THROUGH" FAITH IN HIS BLOOD, TO DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;
Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Hello Douglas. I agree, this is an intriguing verse, which seems to show very little difference since justification by God can only be by faith ( Galatians 2:16).
I think that here, the apostle is showing that what is normally considered a distinction between the Jew & Gentile (the circumcision & the uncircumcision), when the matter of faith in God through Jesus Christ is brought in, both stand before God on equal terms ( Romans 3:22); one has no superiority over the other.
However, the Jew was given the Law which not only showed him God's holy requirements but also exposed to him his sinfulness because he couldn't keep the Law & please God. That missing attribute - Faith - which justifies ALL men (v28 and Hebrews chapter 11), is needed by the Jew which shows him that it's only BY FAITH & not by the "deeds of the Law" can he be saved. Likewise, to the Gentile who had not the Law, that it is only THROUGH FAITH in the Cross can he be saved. I realize this is a very small distinction between those words and even though I may be wrong, I'm afraid that's the only way I can understand why the apostle expressed it this way.
Circumcision in the New Testament Church - In Reply on Romans 3:30 - 3 years ago
Colossians Chapter 3
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
You are not a Christian because you are or, are not circumcised. You are because you have received Christ. This was an issue in the first century Church; but it should not be an issue now in this day and age.
To read more verses on just circumcision, go to the SEARCH box on the link page,
Type in circumcision and hit the arrow.
The search engine will fetch ALL scriptures about it. That's a lot of reading my friend.
It was initiated by God to separate Jews from Non-Jews in the Old Testament. In the New Testament the circumcising of the Heart was introduced. It's a heart decision to become a Christian.
They looked unto him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed. This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them. O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
Psalm 23:5-6
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Nahum 1:17
The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 Timothy 4:4-5
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, IF it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind (Bible), that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Note these verses on the back page of your Bible. For days that go wrong and make us doubt.
Mishael
Even Jesus did works: Matthew 11:2, Luke 19:37, & said greater works we shall do. John 14:20,
Matthew 16:27,
Matthew 23:3,5,23, hypocrisy not ok, you can read whole chapter & those chapters around it for context. John 8:39,
Romans 3:27-28, helps clarify, 'law of faith' Romans 4, Romans 9:30-33,
What is argued is: Romans 11:6, but in context it's the grace extended to Gentiles Romans 11:16-27, also read whole chapter Romans 11,
& Galatians 2:16, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'' the works of the law are in Gen. Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus. Galatians 3,
& Galatians 2:8,9, but we can't ignore Galatians 2:10,
& 2Timothy 1:9 , Titus 3, Hebrews 4, Hebrews 4:11,
However again we can't ignore 2Timothy 3:16-17, Titus 1:15,16, Titus 2, Hebrews 10:24, James 3:13, 1Peter 2:12, Revelation 2:26,
* James 2,
Keep coming back when you can. God loves you! And so do I.
WORKS is something done in return for payment or wages.
Example: sin's wages are death
BUT THE GIFT of the Grace of God is forgiveness.
I sure have met a lot of people that don't believe there are wages for sin.
I watched this new video on Hurricane Andrew. This woman's house was rubble. Rather than be happy her husband and children survived-she wailed and railed on God for destroying her house! It was rant.
I just bowed my head because it hurt my heart when we blame God for all losses. But we barely give thanks for blessings.
Grace, un-merited favor, deserves our praise.
I have experienced a profound faith in Christ. Only He could say, at the tomb of Lazarus, John 11:42, of the Father, "I know You always hear Me." My faith has grown to know our Father always hears me if He hears it from the Son! He is called our Advocate in 1 John 2:1. He defends us before the Father as High Priest, who offers His own life and merits on the sinner's behalf. Heaven has given us the gift of faith, Ephesians 2:8-9, to know, believe and trust ourselves to the High Priest. This is the only way to the Father that pleases Him. We dare not come to Him in our faith. Otherwise, we are entering the Most Holy Place in our own name and dishonor His Holiness.
Chris, my understanding has given me a freedom of absolute surrender to Christ I never experienced. It certainly does not distract my belief in the gospel. I no longer look at my faith to speak to the Father. I now speak to Him through the faith of Jesus. I never have to say again, "I wish I had stronger faith." I do have it! It is my faith in His faith for me!
However, I couldn't place which verse(s) you were referring to. Both Romans 3:4 & Galatians 2:20, do not reveal what you suggest. Unless you were thinking of Galatians 3:26; Colossians 1:4; Colossians 2:5; & there may be more. I doubt if the apostle intended to infer that this was a faith generated by one towards attaining Christ, rather that the Gift being given & now existing in the believer, from which comes his varied expressions of that faith.
This faith Of Christ takes us to complete dependence on Him through His faith. He offers the secret of Christian victory over the flesh, the world and the devil, His own faith, for us.
Galatians 5:14 (KJV)
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
This creates a environment free of Jealousy, hate, and debates etc. all the things that can cause health issues. Also, people will feel this. Show love; people will since this.
Good reminder for all ( John 3:16,17)
A) Believe The GRACE Gospel ( 1 Cor 15:3-4; Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3; Rom 4; Rom 5; I Cor 15:3,4)
B) LOVE neighbor, fulfil ALL The Law ( Gal 5:14; Rom 13:8-10)
C) Study, "Approved Unto God" ( 2 Tim 2:15; Rom 16:25; Eph 1:3-9 Grace/Mystery 'fellowship,' today!) Also: Link
It is amazing that you have the gospel layed out through out the all 66 books.
John 5:39-40.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
HEBREWS 10:7-10.
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
God bless.
And yet, the faith that they (the Jews) should have had 'looking ahead' was lacking in so many of them. So the Hebrews writer could say "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them (the Israel under Moses: Hebrews 3 & by extension to the unbelieving Jew of the NT): but the word preached did not profit them, not being MIXED WITH FAITH in them that heard it. ( Hebrews 4:2).
And that Gospel, even though unknown at that time under Moses as we know it now, was indeed the Gospel, since it had its roots in the sacrificial performances that pointed to Christ Who fulfilled them as God's appointed sacrificial Lamb. Yet those sacrifices (& God's Word) did not profit them because of their lack of faith, just as the Sacrifice of Jesus has no profit to anyone who comes to Him without faith.
Thank you for those added thoughts, brother.
To add to what Brother Chris has given,
Romans 3:30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the "CIRCUMCISION BY FAITH," and "UNCIRCUMCISION THROUGH FAITH."
Romans 3:19-20. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
I believe the Jews "BY FAITH " placed there faith in their offerings which pointed towards The Lord, "The sacrifices itself shows you couldn't keep the law."
The Gentiles place their faith on what has taken place, CRUCIFIXION. Jesus came to fulfill all those sacrifices.
The Jews faith looked ahead.
The Gentiles faith looks behind.
Romans 3:24-25. Being justified freely by his grace "THROUGH" THE REDEMPTION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation "THROUGH" FAITH IN HIS BLOOD, TO DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;
Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
GOD BLESS
I think that here, the apostle is showing that what is normally considered a distinction between the Jew & Gentile (the circumcision & the uncircumcision), when the matter of faith in God through Jesus Christ is brought in, both stand before God on equal terms ( Romans 3:22); one has no superiority over the other.
However, the Jew was given the Law which not only showed him God's holy requirements but also exposed to him his sinfulness because he couldn't keep the Law & please God. That missing attribute - Faith - which justifies ALL men (v28 and Hebrews chapter 11), is needed by the Jew which shows him that it's only BY FAITH & not by the "deeds of the Law" can he be saved. Likewise, to the Gentile who had not the Law, that it is only THROUGH FAITH in the Cross can he be saved. I realize this is a very small distinction between those words and even though I may be wrong, I'm afraid that's the only way I can understand why the apostle expressed it this way.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
You are not a Christian because you are or, are not circumcised. You are because you have received Christ. This was an issue in the first century Church; but it should not be an issue now in this day and age.
To read more verses on just circumcision, go to the SEARCH box on the link page,
Type in circumcision and hit the arrow.
The search engine will fetch ALL scriptures about it. That's a lot of reading my friend.
It was initiated by God to separate Jews from Non-Jews in the Old Testament. In the New Testament the circumcising of the Heart was introduced. It's a heart decision to become a Christian.
taking note of what you've said. Thank you!