Romans Chapter 6 Discussion Page 2

God is so good. Thank you Lord Jesus!!!

Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

We were saved from all sins, past sins, present sins, and future sin the second we believed Paul's Gospel to the Gentiles during the age of grace. Which is: 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Neither. I understand that the crucifixion & resurrection of Jesus was for the forgiveness of our past sins & removal of them that were held to our account. Hebrews 10:16,17: "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." And, Romans 4:25: "Who (Jesus) was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." Our sins placed on Jesus at the Cross have been taken away, no longer imputed to us & we remain justified (i.e. to be declared not guilty, absolved, acquitted) from any further recourse or punishment. When God looks at us, He sees us IN Christ & clothed in His Righteousness (& not our own which could only condemn us).

Salvation, I believe is a once only event that was accomplished at the Cross & received through full faith in that Work. It can't be undone or re-given: we're either saved or not, or else, we show that we despise this great Work & count it of little worth. What you wrote, "that Salvation is a process of maturing in the spirit of Christ", I see that as the ongoing filling Work of the Spirit, as we continue to empty ourselves of that which hinders His Work. And when we do, He reveals to us more of Jesus, endeavouring to make us more like Him in every way. ( Ephesians 3:19, 5:18).

We are saved from our past sins,,,, we are being saved from our present sins and if we endure our own cross and overcome we shall be saved....PRAISE GOD.

Did Jesus die and resurrect to save sinners with there sin or sinners from there sin.... i believe that Salvation is a process of maturing in the spirit of Christ. I believe that Salvation is not the gift but is the result of the Gift... I believe that its all about Jesus its all about his Character . we are to take up our own cross and follow in his footsteps , not to say that we alone can obtain unto the High calling of Christ, for it is of him to will and to do of his good pleasure... its Christ in us the Hope of Glory , that is able to reconcile us back into an Holy and Unblameable relationship with God the Father.

We are all born Dead.... until we receive that baptism of the Holy Ghost we have no life in us that is more than the allotted time that is given to man.

My Dear Bro..... let me ask you ,,, How do you believe he did it.... we know that He never relied on any thing or anyone but his Father . Everything he did he did in accordance with and by his fathers will... He even had to submit to his Natural Parents to fulfill all righteousness . He had to be baptized By John to fulfill all righteousness. this was part of the pattern .

Baptism by Water, Baptism of the spirit and Baptism of fire... What was it he had to suffer ,

Gen 9:25 puts the curse on Canaan, Ham's Son. Thus Canaan descendants the "Canaanites" which settled in Canaan were the ones cursed by Noah. In fact when the Israelites moved into the promise land they were to remove the Canaanites due to their sexual depravity. This idea of Ham being "cursed" was one of the main reasons slavery was accepted by most Christian religions for centuries and another example of how some have used the Bible to oppressed various races down to this day.

Gen 9:24 does say Noah cursed his youngest son which would be Ham however lets reason on that statement. Is it unusual for a grandparent to consider his grandson as his son? An extension of his loins?

Gen 48:5,6 Records Jacob adopting Joseph's two sons Epharim and Manasseh saying they will become mine, but children after them will be yours...

Even Adam was called a son of God since it was through him that he came into existence. Luke 3:38

Even today a father or mother can claim their son-in-law as their son or their daughter-in-law as their daughter.

I think the most pertinent portion of Scripture on this matter, is found in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20. Others are: Colossians 1:20-22; Romans 5:10.

I see that you understand its meaning, by what you've written. And that is, through the offering up & sacrifice of His Son, God no longer charges us with our past sins, but has accepted us in through the merits of Christ alone. And the enmity that existed between us, is now gone, having been taken away, thereby bringing our hearts & spirits into a real & vital relationship with the Father. So we can joyfully say, that we have been reconciled to God through His Son, having those sins that condemned us, taken away so that God may now accept us by the peace that the Cross brings to both God & man. So one of the fruits of the Gospel, would be the reconciling of the sinner to a Holy God.

If you're referring to the account in Genesis 9:20-25, then, No, the sin of Ham wasn't sexual; he was passing by where his Father Noah was asleep because of imbibing too much, & he "saw" (i.e. he continued to gaze instead of walking away quickly) his Father's nakedness. In one sense, Ham, & his descendants, would not have been cursed, had Ham not reported this thing to his brothers. He must have described in detail what he saw to them, & Noah learned of this act, & so the curse upon Ham.

What was ham sin sexual ?

Naturally, as God in the flesh, He did the will of His Father. Not to do so would be incongruous; that is, it would be God contradicting Himself. One cannot separate the Person from the total nature of The Godhead.

The Father is fully God, but is not The Son or The Spirit.

The Son is fully God, but is not The Father or The Spirit.

The Spirit is fully God, but is not The Father or The Son.

So your question to clarify still stands:

"i would like to know is how he did it."

What do you mean by that?

All things have an order ,,, or a pattern especially in the word of God.. Even Jesus had to follow a pattern .. for he never did anything outside of the will of his father ... he always did those things that pleased his father never usurping his Authority..He would not have been able do those things he did if he had chosen to do his own will . Even in the Garden when it came time to fulfill the will of his father , he said NOT MY WILL BUT THY WILL BE DONE. He is the Cheif cornerstone of the temple , whitch temple we are , for his spirit abides in us .

All through the scripture i see the process of God reconciling man back into a wright relationship with him...

there are many scriptures that describe being reconciled ,, i would leave it up you to choose them in the context of what it means .

The first four books of he new test,,,,, three tell us of Christ and what was accomplished the fourth the book of John tells us more about how it was accomplished ,, i could be wrong but that s what i see..

I've never heard of the Gospel of Reconciliation. Do you have a Scripture for this?

Your mentioning of that lovely hymn, urged me to listen to it again on YT. I remember listening to it (on a record player) as a youngster, that hymn sung by George Beverly Shea (now with the Lord). He was a powerful singer & a mighty servant of God, touching many hearts through his music & testimony, often sharing the platform with Billy Graham.

Praise God for the Truths you & Steve have shared from God's Word.

Steve,

I'm not sure that "We all know what Jesus accomplished." I think that lots of people have written lots of books on just that topic over the past 2,000 years. But to mention just a few that come to mind from Colossians:

"we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins"

"by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"

"having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself"

"you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses"

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross"

"And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it"

Just to site a few.

But what do you mean by, "how He did it?"

Can you be more specific what you're looking for?

When "The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us," He laid aside His Divine prerogatives or privileges. Jesus "made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men," says that He emptied Himself, but not of His divinity. There was a song many decades ago called, "He Could Have Called Ten-thousand Angels." Instead, "He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Jesus had a human nature but He also had a divine nature. He was fully human and fully divine. He had no sin nature as we do. He did many things by His own power as well as relying of The Father and The Spirit. He had ALL His divine attributes.

We all know what jesus accomplished ... what i would like to know is how he did it. ???????????????

What is the gospel of reconciliation ????

Mankind was cursed the day Adam chose to be his own God,

Jesus overcame the curse, he was tempted in all points such as we are yet without sin,

He always did those things which pleased his father.

Jesus never gave himself to the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes or the pride of life.

HE NEVER KNEW INIQUITY,

Ironic that Even Jesus could not accomplish what he did with out the spirit of his father abiding in him..

Psalms 118:8

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."

Salvation is by the grace of God. Eph.2:8&9. Emulation is not the path to salvation, but instead, a false doctrine which you are teaching. Your omission of gospel truth is obvious, as you talk about yourself, not a question of interpreting.

I know whom. 1Tim1:12

Brother Mild Bill,

Thanks for your comments, but you're completely misinterpreting what I have written about our Lord Jesus - Jesus is God and besides Jesus there is none other. I believe you believe in the Trinity - a false doctrine. I believe Jesus is our God, Lord and Savior.

.

Now tell me what you believe, if you don't mine.

Robert Malit,

I've read your other posts and facination with the supernatural, so I know what it is that your find thrilling about Jesus. As Simon of Samaria was mistaken, you are also. You may will yourself to "live in his image", and dupe others to believe as you do, basically a Catholiscism teaching, but you need salvation by the grace of God, through the sacrifice of his son on the cross, and as of now, I see you enmeshed in a works based faith. Jesus is more importantly the Savior, who has paid in full the price for sinners to be saved. Not some model or simply a teacher with a method for us to enter heaven. Adding your work to his, means in effect, he has not done enough to pay for all your sins. Is that really what you believe?

Mild Bill,

Thanks for your comments. I am not suggesting anything. I simply summarized what our Lord Jesus has done for us, as a man, not as God, model to follow so we can live in his image or likeness.

Robert Malit,

Are you suggesting Jesus had something to repent of in baptism, he was born again? You also seem to misunderstand the distinction between his diety and humanity. As I pointed to in my previous post, you don't know everything, which God does. As believers are indwelt of the Holy Spirit, a potential of knowledge exists, but revelation is only of the will of God, the Sovereign of creation. Emulation of Jesus is a self-willed imitation "monkey see, monkey do" approach to what God has told us he is doing in our lives here on Earth, namely, changing our character, and thus the heart, to resemble Christ. Jesus is a superman, unique, then, now and forever. Would you also claim to be God? Which do you find most thrilling about Jesus, his supernatural powers or his personality? Yes, you could avoid answering by saying both.

Brother Mild Bill, the disciples were regular men like us today. The difference is they personally lived and walked, talked, witnessed Jesus performed miracles for 3 years. Today, each of us, learn this from reading the gospel - written word of God in the Bible. So God has given us a much better perspective, to learn more about our Lord Jesus.

Consider this, Our Lord Jesus has dual nature - God and man, but mostly living, preaching, healing as a man. Notice that when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist to fulfill all righteousness, immersed under water in the Jordan River as to repentance, dead to sins, when rose from the water as to new birth the Holy Spirit descended upon him, then Spirit led him into the wilderness, fasted 40 days 40 nights and tempted by Satan - passed perfection tests thereafter recruited the 12 disciples and preached the gospel, healing the sick, casting demons - nothing was impossible for Jesus as a man - a model for us to emulate.

If Jesus did this as God, it is impossible for men like us to emulate, so Jesus had done it as a man. During this time frame, 12 disciples doesn't have the Holy Spirit indwelling in their hearts yet - so this explain why they had very limited understanding - human understanding.