Romans Chapter 6 Discussion Page 3

Robert Malit, "12 DISCIPLES OF JESUS DIDN'T KNOW HIM. WHY?"

Depth of understanding and recognition is a quality that matures in time. We do not know everything about God, but in eternity a continuing revelation will occur, and even then, there is always more about God, because he is God our Creator, and not another creature of limited magnitude. Even you have a question, because you lack understanding, get it?

12 DISCIPLES OF JESUS DIDN'T KNOW HIM. WHY?

John 14:9 Context 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;

I think when Jesus is speaking to Nicodemas in John 3, he tells him that he must be born again to understand that which is spiritual.

Through Adams fall, that spiritual connection (life) was forfeited until The Death of Jesus paid for the sins of every human being ever born. "God so loved the World..."

Unbelievers are walking spiritually dead.

We must be born again. The gift of spiritual life cannot be given until the the spiritually dead Receive the Gift...which is Jesus Christ. We receive this life by pure faith. And then the Holy Spirit comes alongside the receiver of the Gift, to reveal Jesus's life in us.

He lives on the throne of our newborn, spiritually connected hearts. The more of our life we give to Jesus; the more of His life he will reveal to you. In the Book of Revelation it is called, First Love. Revelation 2:4

Mishael

Where does the Bible verse,"... walking yet dead" found?

In Romans 11:25, we read, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

This verse, nor any other verse by inference, does not suggest that all people will be saved prior to Christ's coming, but that all who are 'appointed' (or, pre-destined, or better understood as, destined according to God's foreknowledge) by God to attain salvation (whether Jew or Gentile) will have come to salvation prior to the close of the age. So there will still be people that will turn to Christ for salvation after Jesus comes for His children who are saved now, but in that last day of the closure of all things, all who are appointed for salvation will be with Christ & God, & those who reject Him are consigned to an eternity of suffering & separation.

What is said about cremation.

Trying to find out if and where in the King James Bible it talks about when the last person is saved God will have Jesus return

I'm sorry for the slow reply. Thanks for your patience & gracious words earlier. I think you agree w/me insofar as whatever I've written that is Biblical, but God should get the credit.

What you ascribe to Lordship Salvation (LS) ("a correct understanding" of the Word) is what belongs to the true Gospel of grace, & what you describe is salvation (s) & discipleship (d) intermixed. LS teaches that d is part of & is basically proof of s. If so, then Paul would've not been saved (re. his flesh & sin in Rom. 7). We should want to obey God, but not one of us does this perfectly due to our flesh & the abuse of our free will.

Easy Believism is wrong, but so is LS. They are 2 faulty extremes of understanding the Gospel.

LSists at least imply that s is kept by good works. There tends to be a lot of double-talk. Beyond the links of my 1st msg., here I give 2 very condensed ex.'s.

"...[B]ut the keeping of the commandments is an instrument-a necessary instrument-through which the grace of God flows and keeps us in Christ, the principle of reward for us. Thus, we have to keep the commandments to be saved, but we understand it is only through grace that we can do so...St. Paul makes clear that if Christians allow themselves to be dominated by their 'flesh,' or lower nature, they will not make it to heaven...Here [re. Gal. 6:7] St. Paul teaches that through good works, or continuing to "sow to the Spirit," we will be rewarded with eternal life, but only if we persevere." - "Are Good Works Necessary for Salvation?" by Tim Staples (dated 4/30/15)

In "Faith, Works, and Regeneration, Paul Washer" (video-10/4/12 by "MrHarms" on YouTube), @ the 1:34-1:39 marks, Washer said, "If you don't have works, you're going to hell." Re. apple trees (at); I think that an at w/o fruit is still an at, for it has at DNA. See whole vids for context. (This 1 is an excerpt from "Paul Washer Evangelistic Message - DSFC 2012 (1-12-12)" (video-1/17/12 by "GraceBaptist1689").)

Hope this helps, & thanks!

I enjoyed reading your comments & response & do agree with what you've written. Though, I had to spend a little time considering your understanding of "Lordship Salvation". As much as I detest such categories, I realize that these terms are necessary for an understanding of a person's position without the need to detail all the beliefs that come under its umbrella.

After reading more about Lordship Salvation (LS), I actually seem to agree with it, when one considers its antithesis, "Easy Believism", which I certainly don't espouse to. You wrote that LS, as you've recently learned, is heresy. You also wrote about it: "Our attempts at obeying God don't save us from sin! Nor do they "keep" us saved or "maintain" our salvation. (& disobedience, after being saved, doesn't cause us to lose our salvation.)." Forgive my ignorance, but does LS actually infer that obedience to God saves us/keeps us saved from sin, likewise, disobedience causes loss of salvation?

I couldn't find the above claims by those proponents of LS, rather that it is a correct understanding of Scripture, to indicate that a person truly saved by the Blood of Christ & reborn, will in all seriousness & compulsion, want to live for the One Who purchased him & be His disciple in all areas of life. There will be times of falling into sin, not unrestrained sin of course, but the Spirit within will immediately impress conviction, with great spiritual discomfort & a requirement to seek forgiveness & change. If he should neglect this & continue to persist in disobedience, then his testimony before the Lord might seem hypocritical to us, but ultimately to be judged & dealt with by the Lord & not us.

So, what I'm saying, is that I agree with you, it's just that I'm unaware of LS propagating a teaching of 'salvation through Christ & the keeping of the Law'. Of course, I have other views of the application of the Law in the life of the believer in Christ: but that's another matter for another time. Blessings.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." - Romans 6:23

I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, & please forgive me if I am. But the Bible states otherwise than your overall message.

While it's true that many church institutions (& traditions) teach lies, & while it's true that nobody who lives in (I guess you mean habitual) sin is free from sin, not one of us is, has been, or ever will be able, in this life, to be free from sin by trying to obey all of God's laws.

It's impossible for us to do this perfectly, 100% of the time, & under or in any & all circumstances! That's why Jesus Christ did it for us instead, praise Him!

I once thought Lordship Salvation (which your message seems to espouse) was correct, but recently I (& others) have learned that it's a heresy.

Our attempts at obeying God don't save us from sin! Nor do they "keep" us saved or "maintain" our salvation. (& disobedience, after being saved, doesn't cause us to lose our salvation.)

Repentance is important in salvation & for sanctification, but repentance (or anyone/thing else, includ. the keeping of the Law) isn't the Savior, the Son of God is.

Jesus Christ is the only one who kept the Law perfectly & was, is, & will always be sinless; He is our perfect & complete sacrifice for our sins!

I pray that you & others would see this truth! It isn't right that anyone should be held in bondage to this legalistic, joy-destroying, Christ-depreciating false gospel.

More info. can be found in Dr. Gene Kim's Youtube videos:

"Can You Be Wicked and Still Saved? Shocking Answer - Dr. Gene Kim"

"WORRIED About Salvation When You Fail Works? ( Eph. 2:9-10) | Dr. Gene Kim"

"If I Keep Sinning, Am I Still Saved? ABSOLUTELY! ( Eph. 1:5-6) | Dr. Gene Kim"

& also just search for:

"Dr. John R. Rice's Rebuttal Of Lordship Salvation"

(As found on jesus-is-savior, & others; since I'm hindered from listing the addresses, you'll need to search the above terms.)

The church has been telling lies to the people. No one is free from sin who lives in sin!!!! I repeat! No one is free from sin who lives in sin! The only thing that saves you from sin is not to do it!!! Keep the laws statutes and commandments and judgments of the Most High . Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand!

Chapter 6. It is essential to ingest in order to enjoy chapter 8 experience.

The key to victorious living is receiving the truth that we have been crucified with Christ - we were baptized into His death. We died with Him was buried with Him and rose again with. We also ascended with Him seated at the right hand of the Father in Him. Eph 2:6.

... John 3:3-7 fulfilled in Acts 2:38-39 is water baptism. We are baptized into Christ in Romans 6:3-6 is by water. Same as Colossians 2:12. Same as 1st Peter 18-21. Same as Galations 3:27

In reply to Reba and Grace

Use the search box. Type in spirit.

Mentioned 523 times although not all apply to the Holy Spirit, BUT many do.

Genesis Exodus Numbers Judges Samuel 1& 2 Kings 1&2. I will stop there and may your journey be fruitful.

Shout out to Mishel and others on this site who have assisted with my growth in the Bible. I may not have agreed with their doctrine or beliefs, but by prayer and scriptures my faith increased.

Prayers and Blessings.

Alex's comments about Spirits ( the H.G. ) AS IN JOHN 3 Jesus told Nic. a Jew he had to be bornagain of the Spirit remember that God is spirit thus God can be multiplied in US via that good seed the living word and the H.G CAN BE REGENERATED via his seed the word in humanity thats the 2 nd coming unless ya receive the kingdom of God as a lil child impling a birth of the spirit of God in US as the H.G. is GOD,Being bornagain again of an incorruptible seed even by the WORD OF GOD WHICH IS GLORFICATION OF CHRIST MEANS MULTIPLICATION of his spirit. I have glorfied it and will glorify it Again a 2 nd time It was glorfied a bit at Pentecost Thats y the H.G. was given but it was not the best wine,its the 2 nd wine that is the best wine th Woman has to travail again a 2 nd time just like bathsheba had to travail again a 2 nd time. Before the great king Solomon was born and allowed to build the temple My lil children of whom i travail in birth AGAIN AGAIN till Christ is fomed in you the Woman is in travail again for the manchild which is the H.G. THE KINGDOM CHILD the Comforter that answers to Solomon which means Comforter remember Solomon means comforter and he was the Granson in the Davidic Trinity.My point is Gods SPIRIT can be born in US via the seed of Christ, regeneration can take place in the spritual realm there can be gestation in the spritual realm thats y he is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit ,They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin he has a seed to sow in humanity and to whom that seed ( HIS WORD HIS BREATH ) came it made them GODS the H.G. was born in them that heavenly Child Thus Gods spirit can truly be born in US sinners, The Israel of God is gonna be as the stars of heaven all somewhat different but all the same just like natural Israel was like the sands of the seas but they were all the same all had 1 Father Abraham, Issac and Jacob 3 distinct beings,But the Israel of God are all SPIRITS that are gonna be born in humans.God so loved

Alex's comments on the H.G. John 6 The h.g. was not yet given b/c that Christ was yet glorified the H.S. was given but not the H.G. They are both spirits but only 1 is the granson ,the H.S. is the Father they are 3 distinct beings but only the H.G. is the granson th beginning of the israel of God they are 3 distinct beings but ya cannot blaspheme the H.G. simply b/c he is your own personal God, Your gift from God via the seed of the sower, a child of the kingdom. Your new heart and new spirit, Your new innerman, Your HIGH Priest, Your Kingdom that is born in you via that good seed th Word, the living word btw not the written word, there is no eternal life in the written word ya remember Jesus said search the scriptures in them you think you have eternal life but there is no eternal life is the written word. Eternal life is a byproduct a CHILD of the living WORD AS Jesus was the living WORD made flesh and blood not the written word made flesh and blood.As Mary was impregnated by the living word not the written word, There is simply no blood content in the written word but Jesus was the living WORD made flesh and BLOOD.Even in the O.T. WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD there WAS no remission of sins, If salvation cd have come via the written word then Christ shed his blood in vain and the cross was just foolishness Thats y we must behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the WORLD. The written word is not God but the living WORD is truly GOD and is spirit and life. But we love and need the written word but only the living WORD is God th H.G. fell on them that heard the living word as Jesus said my words are spirit and life and the H.G. FELL ON THEM THAT HEARD HIS WORDS resulting in a Child, b/c i have spoken these Words sorrows have filled you hearts, Sorrows imply a spritual pregnancy as the H.G.is gonna be born in US via his seed .Thats y he is saying unless ya receive the kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in,A child in our future.

Yes, Reba it does.

The HS is mentioned at least several times in the Hebrew Bible, aka OT, and has different names just like the Father and Son

He is first mentioned in Genesis 1:2 as the Spirit of God. Why did Moses highlight with specificity that it was God's Spirit since a supernatural being was understood as a type of spirit by all ancient cultures? Moses could have also simply written it as "God hovered over the waters". So, there is more to this plural yet singular Elohim God than what some dogmatic and grumpy Unitarians would laughably insist as evidence for their view

For the hair splitters, I have another example in Isaiah 63:10 where the HG is clearly the HS. To those who criticise that it is in lower case, that's petty reasoning but surprisingly the NIV Study Bible has it in proper capitalisation

Does the Old testament say anything about the Holy Ghost (sprit)?

You had only to receive Jesus as your Savior and Lord. Free to you, but it cost Him his Life. Turn off the tv and Read your Bible first, when you get home. -Mishael-

"A forensic term, opposed to condemnation. As regards its nature," "it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins" "of those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and" "treats them as righteous in the eye of the law. In addition to the pardon of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law" are satisfied in respect of the justified. It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or set "aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense;" and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law ( Rom. 5:1-10). "It proceeds on the imputing or crediting to the believer by God "himself of the perfect righteousness, active and passive, of his" "Representative and Surety, Jesus Christ ( Rom. 10:3-9)." Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without "righteousness, but a declaration that he possesses a" "righteousness which perfectly and for ever satisfies the law," "namely, Christ's righteousness ( 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 4:6-8)." "The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or credited to the believer is faith in or on the Lord Jesus "Christ. Faith is called a "condition," not because it possesses" "any merit, but only because it is the instrument, the only" instrument by which the soul appropriates or apprehends Christ "and his righteousness ( Rom. 1:17; 3:25, 26; 4:20, 22; Phil." 3:8-11; Gal. 2:16). "The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the same time our sanctification (q.v.); and thus the doctrine of justification by faith does not lead to "licentiousness ( Rom. 6:2-7). Good works, while not the ground," are the certain consequence of justification (6:14; 7:6)

This comment is to no one in particular but follows with the thought of being a Martha.

Perhaps many Marthas in times past and present have gathered together in the name of Jesus their Lord, and have presented their Gospel in a worldly way, in an excusing way, in a self pleasing way, a beautiful serving kind of way, in a many souls are being saved kind of way, in a political way, in a saving of life or lives way, and have condemned others by this way;

All the while Jesus justified Mary.

It can happen to any of us to go off message.

By Love.

Hello, perhaps your comments are more for Mishael, yet they came to me as well.

These verses in Luke Chapter 10 speak to my heart.

Luke 10:38-42

Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received them into her house.

And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

But one thing is needful, and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

I am too much like Martha, while it was and is, and will always be, that Jesus justified Mary in her faith and by her faith.

I hope this helps answer both of your questions.

Carleton

If I thought fraud was taking place at a Christian Organization/Charity, who should I contact? Please leave the information alos. Thanks

I have so much to ask you and hopefully I'll get that chance in the near future. But for now, I'll start by asking this; When someone claims to be a Christian but they work 40+ hours a week at their job and only donates maybe 2-hours of their time to reading the Bible and/or learning about God (includes church vists). When looking at the numbers, these numbers are consistant with a large group of people today. What their average week would look like. Unless their job consists of "Christian Duties," how can their life be justified?

Thank you. I look forward to seeing the song(s) on your heart!

God bless your meditations.

Carleton

Thankyou Ira The holy spirit has been pouring out psalms to me now everyday and i will put one on here soon.Yours is very good and uplifting God Bless you

Thank you Mishael. So many past song writers had such open vision for our hearts today, I need this song or one like it, in my life every day. We know of many that are sick right now that need prayers. I hope all is well with you and family.

Carleton

So sweet! I'm going to copy that and keep it in my Bible. Thank you.

Ira F Stamphill "A Tender Heart"

Give me a heart that's tender true; A heart that's kind a heart that's new; And let it be like Thine, O Lord, In every deed and every word. Take out the stony heart, take out the bitterness; Give me a gracious heart that's full of tenderness; A heart that understands, that will not fret nor pine, Give me a tender heart, a heart like Thine.

Give me a heart from sin set free, Unworthy though my life may be; And may Thy Spirit its temple fill And teach me to obey Thy will. May I forget the wrong someone has done to me And show the tenderness of Christ on Calvary; Let tears of sorrow come and all my ways refine, Give me a tender heart, a heart like Thine.

Give me a heart that no knows guile, A heart forgiving all the while; A heart that reaches to do a deed And stoops to help a friend in need. I want to feel the pain my neighbors often know And lend a helping hand if be friend or foe; I want to share the loss in every weal or woe And have a tender heart wherever I go.

:)

Thank YouDearGod for every thing!!!

I believe that a born again believer knows if they remain covered by the blood as an assurance by the presence of peace by the Holy Ghost.