Romans
King James Version (KJV)
Romans Chapter 8 Discussion Page 4
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For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
However, the Bible is full of warnings for professing believers not to trust in their profession if their profession is not genuine. That is where so many Christians confuse fake Christianity with real Christianity. Christians who are truly born again will never lose their salvation and they are told in 2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Christians are not to be puffed up and idle about their profession. Christians need to make their calling and election sure by growing in the Lord to gain the assurance from Him that they are right with God and not just deceived.
False Christians should also give diligence to apply themselves to seeking the Lord and studying the Bible to discover that they are not saved and need to seek salvation that is real.
Nobody "does things" to get saved. Doing things will help the sinner find or gain assurance of salvation, but will not give the sinner credit with God by which to earn or buy salvation.
I'm happy to discuss Colossians 1:23. It says "if you continue," and it sounds like its conditional. You can be reconciled, have the promise of this position before God in His representation of you, but if you don't continue.
This is the construction in Greek that's called the first class condition assumed to be true. He's not saying if you continue on. He's saying since you are continuing in the faith, and listen to this: having been grounded and settled, and not being moved away.
There's a lot there, but basically having been grounded, every Christian that receives Christ has been grounded, and they continue on because of that. They are settled in Christ. They have received Christ. And then we have a Present Participle in the Greek text: "And are not continually being in the promise of being moved away."
So it's not just a one-time condition where somebody says "I moved away from Christ and I lost all my salvation." There are people who are in the process of continually being removed from Christ. They are not true believers. They do not continue.
In fact, Jesus in John 8:30-31 tells us that to those Jews who have believed in Him, He says my genuine disciples continue in my word.
That's one of the characteristics of a believer. Some people you have to nag to stay in the word. If a believer, somebody who is born of the Spirit of God, if he or she tried to get away from the word, they are miserable.
And so with a genuine believer, Jesus says that they will continue in my word. If you try to stop, the Lord will convict you and deal with you. That's a characteristics of a true believer.
We don't get this from our English text because English is such a general language. But the Greek text reads, "Since (you are) continuing in the faith, having already been grounded and settled, and (you are) not being moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Again, I really appreciate your response, and I am actually hoping you could offer further insight into Col. 1:23. As I re-read this passage in scripture I notice that there does appear to be a condition to our salvation that does hinge on our continued faith in Christ. I do understand what you mean by salvation being a promise, but, even promises do often have conditions. I hear that a lot from my brothers and sisters in Christ who believe in Eternal Security, but, just don't see how unconditional security lines up with scripture. Let's look at Col. 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". We see 2 things going on here that make this conditional. 1st, we see that we must "continue" in the faith. 2nd, we must not be "moved away". It is only when those 2 conditions are met that Christ will present us as holy and un-blamable.
If I may ask, when the writers of the KJV of the Bible were translating Col. 1: 23 why did they not just say "those who are filled with the Holy Spirit will endure to the end"? It just seems to confuse the reader to translate this as a conditional statement, but, not have any conditions to it. God is not the author of confusion, and I believe the writers of the KJV were inspired by the Holy Spirit, so why would Col. 1:23 be worded this way?
I value your insight and follow up, as I love friendly dialogue. thanks!
Very well said, Amen! That was the teaching in the early church. A person had to be born of God's Spirit in order to claim Christ as their Lord and savior. Romans 8:9 tells us that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
If I might add, salvation is not conditional based on what we do, but on what Jesus Christ has done for us. Colossians 1:23 says, "If ye continue in the faith," so it sounds conditional. But the literal translation from the Greek is, but the one who (has endured), not the one who will, but the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.
Because it is an Aorist Participle in the Greek, it shows the proof of those who are saved, and it matches the rest of the teachings in the New Testament. The person who is saved WILL endure to the end, guaranteed! So we have the proof, and secondly, the promise of salvation. That is a promise!
I heard someone once say that the bible uses a lot of future tenses to show that salvation isn't here, it is later. No! That is a promise. A person is saved now. And when all this is over, the ones who will be saved are the ones who have endured unto the end.
So, I agree that only those who endure to the end in faith will reap eternal life, but I would also say that the person who is saved (Born of God's Spirit), that person will endure to the end. Why? Because God's Spirit in them will cause them to endure to the end. Like you say, we are the ones being kept by the power of God through faith. He keeps us saved, all the way to the end.
Again, very well said, and thank you for sharing this!!!
We, as followers of Christ, need to follow the Holy Spirit and set our minds on the things above. We were once alienated from Christ based on our wicked works ( Eph. 2: 2-3). We were once children of darkness, but, now are saved by the blood of Christ. He is the one who presents us holy and un-blamable in the sight of God IF we continue in the faith ( Col. 1: 21-23; Gal. 5: 1-5). We also see that Biblical faith is one that expresses itself in love ( gal. 5: 6). We need to remember that only those who endure to the end in faith will reap eternal life ( Romans 2: 6-11; Gal. 6: 7-9; Mt. 10: 22; 1 Jn. 2: 24-25; 1 Cor. 15; 1-2).
Amen
I checked in my NIV translation and it has this
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ok, if you were a very bad anti-Christ spirit, would you add and delete things from the most used Bible in the world? Of course. You could be richer selling you're own version or brand.
Let us now memorize these next scriptures: REVELATION 22:18-21, Exodus 32:33, Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32
( good advise Deuteronomy 13:1-5 ), Gal. 1:8-9
I only buy Bibles that are published by THOMAS NELSON of Nashville.
You can find good Bibles on ABEbooks dot com. Read the description. You may want to upgrade to a KJV Bible Reference Bible. Preferably with center of each page, reference columns.
I am not sure what you are really asking here. Can you rephrase your question to us, please?
God Bless
God bless and thank you
Jesus Christ sent Paul ( Acts 9:15) to preach about his name. Jesus Christ
means in Hebrew "Jehovah is Salvation" ( John 3:16,17; Psalm 83:18)
so Paul was taking the lead and many other qualified men were appointed
to lead the congregations or "Churches KJV". 1 Timothy 3
According to Acts 2 man and woman fulfilled the prophecy at Joel 2:28
during a day of Pentecost ( Acts 2:16-18). All were filled with the holy spirit ( john 4:24)
were all at the same time speaking in tongues. (multitudes heard in his own language
Acts 2:1,3,6)
Paul was maybe trying to explain that the congregation is not that event.( 1 Corinthians 12:27-31)
that they must speak or prophecy one at a time. to keep the congregation in order. 1Corinthians 14:33.
However, because a man is the head of his wife. a wife remains silent in the congregation ( 1Tim. 2:12).
if she wants to ask a question about something. she should not become authoritative within
the congregation or church (if she doesn't understand something, she should go to her husband).
1 Corinthians 14:35
Ephesians 5:21-24
if someone is single. then the head would be Jesus Christ because he is the head of the man (Jesus Christ has appointed qualified men to shepherd the congregation John 21:17. if a woman is single or not married, she can
go to the one taking the lead, and they can pray for her.
James 5:14-16
1 Samuel 1:9-18; Luke 10:38-42;
Acts 20:28; 1 Timothy 3
Regarding woman and head covering, according to 1 Corinthians 11:5,8;
if her husband is present, she covers her head if she is preaching or praying.
if her husband is not present and she preaches and prophecies or prays to God,
then she should cover her head as a sign of authority because of the angels.
this is what the scripture says. I can't tell you anything other
1 Corinthians 11:2-3;8-10; 1Tim. 2:12
1 Corinthians 11:1,2,16 "keeping the order as delivered to them"
"we have no custom of being contentious about"
"Think ahead one million years into eternity and look at our trials from heaven's point of view. From that vantage point, if you were to look back at the seemingly end-less trials of this life, they would seem as brief as a moment. Yet, these momentary afflictions work for us an eternal weight of glory.
Again, looking at our trials from heaven's point of view, thinking ahead one million years into eternity, and then looking back at the afflictions in this life which seemed too heavy to bear, they will seem light as a feather. Yet these light afflictions, work for us a far more exceeding weight of glory."
{Full Excellent Article: "Our Light, Momentary Afflictions" Pastor Kevin J. Sadler}
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, today?)
God is SPIRIT, spirit can not be seen.
God (Spirit) wanted children (sons and daughters) of God; but he wanted them to have a BODY.
God spoke Christ (the Body) into existence. All the FULLNESS of SPIRIT (the Father) dwells in the SON (BODY of CHRIST).
Revelation 3:14 An unto the angel (Christ, the messenger of the Father) of the Church .....these things say the Amen, the faithful and true witness (of the Father), the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD(SPIRIT).
We can not even begin to fully understand the GLORY the SON has had with the Father since the BEGINNING.
The word of God tell us that through the works of the CROSS, Christ is going to give us this SAME GLORY that he shares with our Father.
When we come to this TRUTH, we are ready to be present with the Lord and absent this body.
But; our Father CAUSES us to continue SUFFERING IN THE FLESH, until our appointed time to depart this flesh.
Then this happens:
1 Corinthians 15:54 DEATH is swallowed up in VICTORY.
We are then GIVEN the BODY of CHRIST and the FULLNESS of SPIRIT (GOD).
John 17:21 And the GLORY that thou hast GIVEN me, I have GIVEN THEM; that they may be ONE as we are ONE.
Hebrews 12:2
James 1:2-4
John 14:2
Revelations 21:4
1 Corinthians 6:3
Hopefully it's helpful & encouraging.
with the glory that shall be revealed?
Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Matthew 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the SON of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which IS in heaven. (IS means present time)
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.