Tobit Chapter 1 Discussion

While it is perhaps possible to get one ,I wouod not advise it ,for there are very good reasons why it was finally removed from it .

I would like to have the Bible (KJV) with the Apocrypha included in it. Would you know how someone could get one?

Amazon online

Where can I purchase a 1611 King James Bible?

The apocrypha is a selection of books which were published in the original 1611 King James Bible. These apocryphal books were positioned between the Old and New Testament (it also contained maps and geneologies). The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D. A portion of these books were called deuterocanonical books by some entities, such as the Catholic church.

Many claim the apocrypha should never have been included in the first place, raising doubt about its validity and believing it was not God-inspired (for instance, a reference about magic seems inconsistent with the rest of the Bible: Tobit chapter 6, verses 5-8). Others believe it is valid and that it should never have been removed- that it was considered part of the Bible for nearly 2,000 years before it was recently removed a little more than 100 years ago. Some say it was removed because of not finding the books in the original Hebrew manuscripts. Others claim it wasn't removed by the church, but by printers to cut costs in distributing Bibles in the United States. Both sides tend to cite the same verses that warn against adding or subtracting from the Bible: Revelation 22:18. The word 'apocrypha' means 'hidden.' Fragments of Dead Sea Scrolls dating back to before 70 A.D. contained parts of the apocrypha books in Hebrew, including Sirach and Tobit [source].

Keep this in mind when reading the following apocryphal books. Martin Luther said, "Apocrypha--that is, books which are not regarded as equal to the holy Scriptures, and yet are profitable and good to read." (King James Version Defended page 98.)

LINKS for the Apocrypha and the 1611 version are out on the red link page if you want to see them.

In what year did the King James Bible become the edited version we know today without the Apocrypha?

Hello Gilberto. I think of Jesus' Words to His troubled enquiring disciples in John 14:27, "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

This was Jesus' Promise to them & to all who would believe on Him, that His Peace would be their joyful portion, as only His Spirit could give them. With that Peace, comes a certain Rest: a Rest in the knowledge of the veracity of His Word, the full salvation by the Cross, & a life of inner peace in an uncertain & troublesome world. And this Rest that Christ gives His people has been secured & paid for by Jesus Himself; it comes to us at no cost, nor could we ever be able to purchase it by our efforts. The Jews of Jesus' day, & even now, come to God on their own merits & works, believing that God would accept them for their obedience to the Laws & observance of all the regulations & feasts. But their desire for Peace in this life & into eternity is not founded in Jesus, God's Son, the Prince of Peace, which means they would never have it.

And yet, even though Jesus paid the price for our salvation & the peace & rest that we're assured of, we are warned in Hebrews 4:11, "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." Even though this passage speaks of that future rest for believers when all our labours & trials are over & we finally get to be with our Lord, it is clear that we can enjoy that rest & peace now which Jesus gives by virtue of His Spirit. The Jews miss out on it because of unbelief - we can enjoy it now & into the future only through faith in Jesus' Work on the Cross - and of course, without any cost to us, except to remain faithful to Him, loving Him & looking for His Coming. And all who have been touched & indwelt by His Spirit will continue to endure this life to its end, finding complete rest only in Jesus.

How does bible verse say s about the cost of rest in Christ

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Jesus could only be the Perfect Offering to pay for our sin & to turn away God's Anger against us. So, this Jesus Who is in Heaven now says, that He will come again one day to restore all things back to perfection, but for now He gives us the opportunity to come to Him in faith in what He has done for us. So, after creating all things new for those who love Jesus & God, is there anything that can be added to Scripture after this? Nothing can be added at all.

I hope this helps you a little in your understanding & discussion with Muslim friends.

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You may not be able to do Scriptural comparisons, since only the very learned who know both the Bible & Quran well are able to do, so all you can do is:

a. tell them that we (Christians) agree that the Bible as given to us by God, is complete from beginning (with Creation) to the end (destruction of the Earth & the bringing in of the new heavens & Earth freed at last from sin's corruption). And God warns us in Revelation 22:18,19: "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." So what Jesus (by the Angel) has said, is that we are forbidden to add anything more to what God has revealed to us or else God will judge us.

b. the Muslim will then say to you that this is false & why has Allah then given us the Quran? You cannot enter into debate about this as you & I can't give clear answers about Quranic writings, but we can tell them the reason why ONLY the biblical message is important: that is, we are all sinners (Muslims will agree to that, though their understanding about sin is slightly different to ours), & as sinners God has to judge us (because He is Holy & Just), we're found guilty as a result & sent to Hell forever. We earlier did tried to obey God & do our best, but all our good efforts were not acceptable to Him & we remained guilty. But since God loves us so much ( John 3:16), He had to do something permanent: He gave of Himself, through Jesus, the "Word of God" & (a Soul) (Quran calls Him Kalimat'ullah, (Surah 4:171).

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Emmanuel, the books you mentioned form part of what we call 'The Apocrypha' & were not included in the Canon of Scripture. Canonizing of Scripture took place over the ages since post-Apostolic days, which essentially means that the Church fathers & others involved in Scriptural examination viewed that some published writings did not conform to the accepted doctrines or teachings in the other accepted books: because of their authorship, authenticity, or dubious references, raised 'red flags' as to their worth to be included in Scripture. I'm not saying that everything in the Apocrypha is wrong, but there are many differences there to cause concern, & so these books were left out (i.e. not canonized).

That "Muslims say that our Bible is incomplete". I've worked with Muslims & studied Islam in my earlier ministry so am aware of this claim, amongst many others. This claim of theirs has to do with the Bible being current & valid only to a certain point in time. That is, only till the coming of Jesus (the Prophet) & with His Life & Ministry. They don't accept the letters written by the apostles of Christ & when they understand the Gospels, they think of the Gospel of Barnabas only, which is not accepted at all by Christians. So, if (to them), the Bible has ended with Jesus, then why shouldn't everyone then accept God's next prophet, Mohammed & his revelations from Allah. This is why they claim that our Bible is incomplete: because al-Quran is given by Allah to bring His latest message to all. So what do they do when someone like Baha'ullah comes on the scene after Mohammed? They of course, reject him, because it won't fit into their belief that Mohammed is God's last prophet. You & I can't use any of this as an argument with Muslims, as they will just reject your words. In fact, it is not advisable to even find fault with their Book, as this will cause them anger & to not listen to you at all.

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You have to choose one book or the other eventually. One follows Muhammad, the other follows Jesus, the son of God.

Both came through the bloodline of Abraham, until Mary, of the bloodline of King David. That's why Jesus said he was the Son of Man.

Ishmaels bloodline was through Abraham and Haggar. God blessed Ishmael with good things: recorded in the Bible.

However, God had made a Covenant with Abraham that would be passed down through the son, Issac. Jesus's mother would come through that bloodline.

Read in Genesis 17: 19-21. Ishmael's blessing verse 20.

There's just differences between the Bible and the Quran. I'd go with what speaks to my heart and soothes my soul; but that's just me.

I grew up in a church that preached so much hell fire damnation that I was more fascinated by the various colors the pastors face showed. Pink meant it was time to go home.

I've had Muslim neighbors. They're very family oriented. Older relatives are treated with respect. Very approachable and kind.

Please why were these books (judit, tobit, wisdom of solomon etc.) removed from the bible? (am really blessed in studying them)

muslims do go against us by saying our bible is no more complete (pls i need urgent clear answer)

Thank you for your response. You will be hearing from me soon. It's so good to know of someone more mature in spiritual matters than I.

I'm glad my comment was helpful to you, as are comments from others who read & answers those who may be uninformed or perplexed. Most of us here, I feel, are mature believers & can identify with some of the concerns that are raised & we use God's Word only as our basis for advice & counsel. Some here may have had quite interesting & challenging experiences in their Christian walk & ministry, so the reader can get some glimpses of personal testimony of the generous & timely provision from the Lord. Please feel free to ask of us - we will respond as the Lord directs. But never forget, that your own Bible reading, prayer for the Spirit's assistance in understanding it, & keeping short accounts with the Lord, will be of far greater value than whatever another can give you. I hope you attend a strong Bible-based Fellowship where the Word of God & fellowship with His people, can only strengthen your journey in this life.

Thank you so very much. No words can say how much it means to me that you answered. I wasn't expecting that. I do believe and all the more now. I have no one to ask things things since I have been saved but the Holy Spirit. If I am unsure again about something can I contact again?

If God asked me that question without any further qualification, I think He meant:'whether I believed that His Son's Work on the Cross was perfect & final, whether my sins had been forgiven according to the Scripture, & whether I am living the crucified life' I have no doubt in Jesus' Work on the Cross & the forgiveness of my sin through the gift of faith, but I know that living the crucified life is & always will be hard. As a sinner saved by His Grace, I can only live as He wants me to, by dying daily & living victoriously through His Spirit. With bowed head, I fall short - but with raised head, I know He understands & His continual Work continues in my life to make me more like His Son.

If God asked you. are you confident in your salvation What would you think He meant

Delta I have a 1611 bible. We can't update God word by deleting books. Buy a 1611 bible and Jewish Bible then find out how much these New books have omitted God truth from His word. God word is one, why do the KJB, Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, 7th Day Adventist, Muslim, Scientology have different words. Men evilness change the word, but they can't change the Spiritual Truth given to men.

Bryce this book is in the bible. Men wrote the bible. Jesus is the word that became flesh, in wisdom and the Spirit of Truth. God gave His words to the Jews to write to all men. The Gentiles wrote what they wanted us to believe. If we don't seek the word by the Spirit of Truth we deny the word of God on men lies. We can't hide God word it is written in the heart of all men. Seek Inwardly.

i need more research on this book

This book was not part of the Bible because it teaches false believes that are in contrast to the rest of the Bible, such as burning incense and ashes to get rid of demons. WHAT?

never knew that the apocrypha was part of 1611 King James Version. Nor that parts of the books were found with the Dead Sea scrolls. Interesting.

A comment on John Halpin 's comment. This was a means of control by fear. The Roman crucified people and left the bodies rot to instill fear in there enemies Senna cherub did this to instill fear in the Jews. Jonah refused to go to Nineveh because he wanted God wrath to consume the Ninivites because of what they were doing to his brotheren. God 's love is pored out on the lost. Therefore Jonah went and many were saved.

thi book is so precious to read.

I 'm still trying to come to the realization

Why did Sennacherib so vehemently oppose burying the Jews he had slain? He even looked for the bodies and became terribly angry with Tobit for burying them. Seems a huge waste of time for a king to do this.

to me, this book was in the bible many years ago, and lines up with the true word of GOD.

I believe that if these books were in the Bible up until 1885 they should have remained in the Bible... This book does tell a story of how things were then.... It 's sorta like history. I don 't understand a lot of it yet but God said do not add to or take away from His Word.

This is significant because it is demonstrative regarding the power of alms.