All Discussion PAGE 1032

Hi Bro Dan.

Sorry for a delayed response, I've been working and replying all day.

You've given me Mathew 22:40. That's not the verses I gave you and the Mathew verse you gave is out of context.

Here is the verses I gave. John 13:34-35. 1 John 2:1-11. and 1 John 4:21. It's getting late so let's take this up tomorrow.

Thanks and God bless.

Old Testament law: Deuteronomy 16:16, Exodus 34:23,24, Deuteronomy 31:11, Exodus 23:17, the dates of calendars have changed even the Hebrew / Jewish calendars. Moses through GOD established the beginning of the year to be the Passover, no calendar today honors that. Exodus 12:2, Exodus 12, Numbers 28:16,

Jesus honored these things, along with His parents (on earth) Luke 2:22,23, Luke 2:41-49, John 4:45, John 5:1, John 10:22,23, even those who opposed Jesus expected Jesus to honor the appointed days : John 11:54-57, John 12, Even facing His own brutal death: Matthew 20:17,18 , Mark 10:32,33,34 do you think HE knew He was the Lamb,: Luke 2:38, Luke 18:31, that was going to be slain for Passover? That's why HE told them, as HE obediently set his face to go? Luke 9:51,

Matthew 21

Micah 6:6-8,

John 4:21-24, 2Corinthians 6:2, 2Colossains 2:16,17, Hebrews 10:1-19, Matthew 18:20,

Hopefully these are helpful

Hello, Steven, thanks for your response to me. I don't think I have ever said that water baptism is a requirement for salvation.

I have said that we are required to obey the commands of Jesus, since He commands us to do so in several instances. And He did command the disciples to baptize new believers and I believe that this means water baptism. I will never say that as a matter of course that the church should not practice water baptism any longer because we are "spirit baptized" when we accept Jesus, as you said. Jesus never taught that, and the apostles never taught that idea in the way you stated it. So, I think we agree that water baptism does not save a person and is not required for salvation to occur. But I think we disagree about whether Jesus was talking about water baptism or Spirit baptism in the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18.

It's o.k. with me to agree to disagree concerning this matter. I am glad that this forum allows believers to speak their views and to wrestle with topics that come up concerning the will of God.

Hi Grae, good to hear from you. I was not laying down any kind of law or requirement in my statement. It is just sage advice. so chill, not meaning to offend anyone. I have no problem interacting with Muslim people. I always hope to have an opportunity to share about Jesus with them. But if that doesn't happen, that's o.k. I must say that I have not had contact with very many Muslim people.

Grae, I hope you are doing well. I don't know if you are married or not. I have been married for almost 43 years. I live by the sage advice I wrote in my post. I am not saying that it is wrong to be alone with someone of the opposite sex as a married person, I am meaning that if one is to be alone with another in such a scenario, one should be very careful not only of their own words, gestures, and behaviors so as to not give off any unwanted indications of being interested in adultery, but one should be very observant of the other person, being aware of any cues they give off that they may have an interest in adultery. Also, one needs to consider one's spouse, who may not be comfortable with their spouse meeting alone with someone of the opposite sex. Is it o.k. to go ahead and make a habit of doing this it would cause discord in a marriage? I think it is unwise to do so.

We are to have pureness in our relationships with anyone. And guarding one's marriage is a good thing to do, in my opinion. But, I am interested in knowing more of your thinking on this. So, I welcome your response.

Pray our relationship heals and minus resentment to my family. Pray he sees and let's us have a wonderful life..

Pray he let's that go fully..

Hello S. Spencer.

Thanks again for a helpful response. In my experience in the Assembly of God church and the Four Square church, the laying on of hands to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit is commonly practiced, although it is rarely practiced following a water baptism for a new convert.

S. Spencer,

Thank you for the good explanation to my question. There is nothing you wrote that I disagree with. I appreciate your response.

One thing, I just did not read in your original posting on this thread the statement, "Is water baptism necessary (or essential) for salvation?"

If you had simply stated that in a post to begin a thread, I think the responses would differ than what has been stated in responses. Maybe that is a question to be posted simply as it is, without any other dialogue, should you really want to discuss that question.

Have a good evening, Steven. Last night was wild in the neighborhood here with fireworks going off everywhere until midnight. I could not get to sleep until after they ceased. But once a year is fine with me.

Alex,since you repeated your misinterpretation of Peter's vision in Acts 20, I will refer anyone reading your post to my reply to you as I believe that you are absolutely wrong in your interpretation of this event and in God's interactions with Peter. The Lord was never angry or rebuking Peter. Your interpretation adds to Scripture. Paul was not speaking against baptism and he did not say that baptism makes the blood of Christ to no avail. He was speaking of fulfilling his own personal call to preach the Gospel and that if he did not preach the Gospel as directed to him by the Holy Spirit then so many would not get an opportunity to hear the Gospel preached and therefore, the cross of Christ, though an actual event, would have no effect on those who could not her the Gospel. Paul's comment was not about disavowing baptism, but about being singularly focused on this calling. He left others he had placed in the churches to oversee the believers to do thee baptizing. You are very wrong in your viewpoint.

Believers are the Body of Christ, the Church. Matthew 7:13-29, Luke 19, Matthew 10:16-42, Acts 20:28-30, Jude 1, whole chapter.

Hopefully this is helpful

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking "moderation view" if you're asking what the rules of posting are= if you tap discussion, bottom of page small red print "comment guidelines" has the full list, of guidelines & with excellent scripture references. It's nice to remind ourselves of those.

Moderation, this site has the option to allow anyone to report anything that violates that list of guidelines.

The comments cannot be viewed if removed, as far as I've experienced.

If you had a comment removed, it possibly was flagged as in violation of the "guidelines", after you read them, if you have a question or comment, maybe if you rephrase the words._._ many of us have had discussions about comments removed.

Hopefully that is helpful

Unfortunately that goes in contradiction to what we are told in the scriptures, and I wish it wasn't such a commonly unknown truth which is not just mentioned once in some obscure text, but it is written and confirmed in the Books in the New Testament which us Christians are required to know if we are to be a profitable servant. This is idea of Christ being unable to force his will upon someone is some kind of false gospel of an invented God which is not found in the Scriptures.

John 6: 65

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (draw meaning to literally drag.

Then you have the first chapters of Ephesians which says that the Father has CHOSEN US before the foundation of the world. To say that we are in control of whether we except God or are saved is to once again undermine the gift of eternal life which is why we are saved by grace, not a decision we made. It's really a scary thing that professing Christians can be so ignorant of the very things that make the Gospel so profound and perfect and undeniably of God. Also, you have expressed a love for a God who is not found in the Scriptures, and I strongly advise you to go back to the beginning and rediscover the faith you professs and find out where you stand concerning the Gospel after studying it again in its entirety. Most churches profess the same false gospel you have which I think is where you have been ensnared by.

I truly don't say these things to be hard or mean but I am just wanting to be able to possibly help you find the truth of God's character and the beauty of the Gospel is how undeserving we are and how powerless we are to do anything without permission from God to receive something or truly anything apart from the strong arms of our almighty Savior.

Alex,

John 13:34-35, Romans 12:10, 1Timothy 5:1-2,

I felt led to address the phrase you used when addressing GiGi. It was a phrase use by Jesus when addressing the Sadducees, who appearing to twist the story from Tobit, because it clearly says "before they had lien with her". Tobit 3:8, Jesus went on to rebuke & say Mark 12:24,27 Also in Matthew 22:29,

James 1:16-27, Galatians 5:15-26,

Let's us try to be kinder, not bitey

Skipping ahead a bit. Non-resistance was left back at Babylon if the half week did not meet the destruction of Jerusalem.

Good evening all! Tomorrow I head out for hopes of finding a new start for my family! Where ever the Lord leads us in His name, we will follow!!! We trust in Him and He will always be our guide, today, tomorrow and forever!! Please pray for our new adventure, were ever we may go!! Thank you Lord for all your blessings, for you are always to be praised!! In Jesus name I pray, Amen

The closest passage to what you're asking about, is found in Romans 8:22,23. But if you read the whole chapter, you can see why both we & all creation 'groans in pain' & why that pain will one day be removed with resulting freedom & joy.

Hi Gigi.

Sorry for such a late response.

Part 1.

We've also dealt with this in the past and it wasn't rather it was taught or not it was rather water baptism saves or not.

I want to go over this because saying a dispensational teaching is for lack of better terms because there is a term what is called hyper dispensationalist. Some hold the view that water baptism is not for this age, I don't hold that view,

because it belongs to the new covenant, perhaps I should have said a transitional period.

I will come to that later.

There are dispensation concerning Israel in the Bible and these dispensation is not labeled, (This is a dispensation ).

There are some may be able to articulate this much better than I can.

However let's not loose sight of what I'm drawn into here.

The context of what we are talking about is whether water baptism is a essential for salvation.

This may take several parts.

Let's start with an often used verse when debating baptism.

Acts 2"37-38. Now let's turn back to Acts 1:4-8 to view the audience being spoken to and get the context.

"And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

At the very beginning the early church was all Jewish.

See Part 2.

GBU SUZE....Yes all the unclean animals in that sheet was Humanity that was made clean by the blood of the lamb of God not water baptism lest our Lord shed his blood in vain.

.....Thats y God told PETER in that vision what I ME GOD ALMIGHTY HAS MADE CLEAN BY THE BLOOD OF MY SON DO NOT CALL COMMON OR UNLCEAN....By commanding water baptism for the remission of sins ..God was very upset with Peter to even mention water baptism after Jesus had shed his blood for Humanity...Peter didn't realize the enormity the vastness of the Cross that New COVENANT in Jesus blood for the sins of the world...If water cd have made us clean then our lord shed his blood in vain and the Cross was just foolishness.

.....God was trying to tell Peter what i have made clean ( by my blood ) ..do not call common or unclean..This Crucifixion of Christ was the greatest event to ever hit this planet...Mankind will be talking about this great New Covenant in Christ blood for millions of yrs to come....In Adam we all died but in Christ blood we will all live....Even in the O.T. which was a shadow of things to come without the shedding of blood there was no remisison of sins...

....I know that Peter was a great man of God but somethings are best left untended...Remember Uzzah wanted to help God when the ozen stumbled...But Uzzah should have kept his hands off of the ark...Peter should have not said anything about water baptism as God was making a New Covenant in CHRIST BLOOD.

...Peter should have been in the streets preaching behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world....thank you Jesus....Not commanding water baptism at a time like this when Jesus was shedding his blood for Humanity....love ya suze GBU

I studied up on it & the only scripture that has given me concern about cremation is: Amos 2:1

Hopefully this is helpful

Hello, I can really use some prayers for my health and severe anxiety. Please pray for me.

Gi Gi ...1 Cor.. 1:17 ....Paul said for Christ sent me not to Baptise ( with water ) but to preach the gospel Lest the Cross the (BLOOD ) should be made of none effect....Water baptism is in essence saying that this new blood Covenant was not Needed..ALL we need is water baptism for the remission of sins...verse 18...For the preaching of the Cross ( the blood ) This new covenant is to them that perish FOOLISHNESS....They think that this new blood covenant is not needed...All they think they need is water baptism...All that bloody Cross ( Calvary ) is just Foolishness....But unto us who are saved ( THE BLOOD ) it is the POWER OF GOD. Not water baptism.

.....After that Peter understood the vision he says then remembered i the words of our LORD, John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. and fire... Acts 11 : 16...Peter remembered what Jesus had said about baptism of the H.G...3 Times it is recorded in the New Testament....John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. and fire....Which is that baptism of PROMISE....When Jesus said behold i send the Promise of my father upon you it was baptism of the H.G. Not water baptism.

....The Kingdom cannot come with water baptism...The Kingdom can only come via the New Covenant....The blood of the lamb...Jesus said that this is my blood of the New Covenant drink ye all of it...The Kingdom can only come via the woman and her Children....That New Birth as Jesus said unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in....But the woman cannot give birth till the book is opened which is that New COVENANT His Blood

.....Thats when they sang a new SONG simply b/c that book is the New Covenant that he wrote with is own blood...There is not even a mention of water baptism in the book of Revelation.. Only baptism that is mentioned is the blood of the lamb.

......Once ya understand the ENORMITY of the CROSS his BLOOD you will neva mention water baptism again..

Gigi.

Part 3.

John said I baptize with water he who is coming after me shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

Now, Is Jesus still baptizing with the Holy Ghost? Yes. He does that through the preaching of the gospel and you receiving the message through open eyes and a blood tipped ear. This call goes out to jew and Gentiles, Before the crucifixion Christ was gathering the lost sheep of Israel, The king was in their midst and the kingdom was at hand, John the baptist came to pronounce that. Did Jesus ask the Disciples to baptize the lost sheep of Israel or anyone else BEFORE they crucified him, No. His Death had to bring on a new covenant. The circumcision of the heart. No more a commandment, IT'S NOW A CONDITION. Hebrews 8:6-11. He now put his law in man's heart. "Circumcision of the heart"

and only the baptism of the Holyspirit can do that. In Acts 2:38 the jews was asked to repent, this was very new to them.

Again, this was all Israel.

see Acts 2:36.

Now, everyone taught didn't believe, were they baptized? No, You had to believe. see Acts 8:35-37.

"Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; WHAT DOTH HINDER ME TO BE BAPTIZED?

And Philip said, IF THOU BELIEVEST WITH ALL THINE HEART, THOU MAYEST. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Note:

1 Corinthians 12:13.

Ephesians 4:4-5.

We're put into the body by that 1 baptism and that's the baptism John the baptist referred Israel to. The Holy Ghost.

Matthew 28:18-19. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Do you notice no ask of repentance?

This is beyond Jerusalem. This power is of Jesus, His baptism.

God bless.

Well praise God...it's so great to see this..u would be suprise of the CHURCH PEOPLE that don't know what the will be..im so tired of hearing about the Rapture..when people that you think should know better they don't..oh my it's going to be sad so sad when Jesus comes and they won't be ready.. i went to Isreal 4 years ago and ran into a young man from Africa that showed me scripture concerning that...so every one that i know im telling to research it and read it for yourself...and they are astonished..im talking about born again belivers....oh my so sad..but so very happy to see that you are on it God richly bless You is my prayer....SEE YOU IN HEAVEN!!!

Gigi.

Part 2.The transition.

Israel was the only Nation given a God given religion, they were asked to repent. Here you have a great transition, the veil was rent earlier and now we see a transition from law to grace, No more circumcision of the flesh but of the heart. that's why John the baptist said in Matthew 3:8-10 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Paul says it in Romans 1:16. "Chronology" it is to the Jew first. This conversation of repentance can only be given to a God given Nation and religion. (JUDAISM.) No longer Identified by circumcision of the flesh but Identified with Christ and THEN carry the message to the ends of the earth.

They were to repent and be baptized believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

When we are saved we are baptized by water to give a witness that we are baptized by the Holyspirit and Identified with Christ. So all throughout Acts these steps were highlighted.

There was an beginning of a new covenant.

John the baptist was preparing the way for the Lord for Israel. He came in screaming prepare the way for the Lord

Announcing a kingdom "Before " the King was rejected, This was the baptism of John.

When Jesus sent the Desciples out to teach all baptizing them in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holyspirit, That speaks of the working power of his Death and Resurrection to those who believe.

See Part 3.

Amen... my favorite verse, i think this is the one that really hit home with me... Ro 4:17 (KJV) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Amen, its whats being taught today in 80 percent of Churchs, C.I scofieldism, dispensationalist right division, Israel futurism doctrines, which deny Christ while confessing Christ, people don't realize they deny Christ first coming and the finish work of Christ on the cross, including the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. which is the obsession with a physical earthly future for national Israel, not only do they deny Christ but they replace him with Antichrist.. bad stuff

Wina

Satan walks upright on two legs today, the same as in the time of Adam and Eve.

Who is the most subtil of all the beast of the field that God hath made, that walks on two legs?

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord and said, from walking to and fro in the earth, and walking up and down in it.

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go number Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air (Satan), the spirit that now worketh in the children of obedience:

Matthew 12:28 But if I CAST OUT (of you) devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come unto you.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was CAST OUT, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world was CAST OUT ......

Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery .....Christ in you.

God Bless You.

You know, Wina, Genesis does not give us a vivid description of the serpent who tempted Eve first and then Adam. But this serpent is identified elsewhere in Scripture as the dragon. I don't recall him called a dragon. So perhaps he is the only one or one of many who were created to serve God around His throne. I don't think He would be a physical dragon with matter, atoms, etc, because he is a spiritual being. But, knowing that angels have visited people in the Bible and they looked like men and had a body that could be seen, touched, and participate in human activities such as sleep and eat, perhaps Satan likewise could take on a physical form. It is clear from other scriptural descriptions of Satan that he was the most beautiful being God created. He was adorned with many features that made him very different from any other description of any other spiritual being.

So, I cannot say of the form of a dragon is Satan's normal natural presentation or if he dons the form of a dragon when he interacts with mankind. I cannot say that dragon is the only form he ever takes, as there are references to him being an angel of light and a morning star.

Most ideas of dragons are legends passed down from within cultures. It is interesting that so many cultures have dragon emblems and carvings in their ancient artwork and worship images. And this cult of dragon ideas is still present in many of these cultures. I ask these questions: were dragons part of the natural physical creation-a real life creature? Did Satan possess a dragon in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Eve and Adam? Did dragons live all over the world and eventually become extinct? Or were dragons simply mythical? Or were dragons the natural form of spiritual beings that rebelled with Satan?

We will have to wait until heaven to find out about this, I think, unless science discovers something that shows that they actually were part of the animal kingdom from the time of creation.

Hello again, Roberta,

...continued

The mercy seat was the place where the blood of the sacrifice atoned for the sins of the people. Jesus was the atoning sacrifice when He shed His blood on the cross. He fulfills all of the purposes of the mercy seat and Day of Atonement once and for all.

He is enthroned above the cherubim in heaven and also enthroned in our hearts by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews speaks of this. The O.T. ordinances and arc/mercy seat were a shadow of Jesus dwelling with believers, being the high priest who brings the blood of the atoning sacrifice, and being the sacrifice, shedding His own blood as a propitiation for all of our sins.. In the work of Christ we have the ultimate and perfect fulfillment of the purpose of the mercy seat.

There is not need for a physical temple with a tabernacle, Holy of Holies, Arc and mercy seat crafted by human hands under the direction of God. No, because of the work of Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we are His temple and His dwelling is in the "hearts" of believers always.

Roberta, You can check the site mentioned above or other Christian sites to read more about the mercy seat. I hope I have helped you with your question.

Ty God bless u and yours in Jesus name

Dear friends in Christ, i understand u werry well Alex, i belive what u Says Also. Ppl gets off the shaft when i say this. Evan throw me out of Community. Here you can clearly see that judgment starts with God's people. God bless us all.

Halleljua Jesus is today and yesterday the same. And, of course, it says that the spirit shall be shed in the last days. For everyone to come home with Jesus. I guess He doesn't want to bring home someone who's not ready. Also to confirm that He Is the King.

He Jesus once died for all ppl, not only me typ!



In fact, I've never thought about this with the baptism of water. And your words are not wrong here. What may be is that, as with me, not everyone sees this yet. (Smily).

We will understand everything in the end. And i will study this baptism thoughts and look to it with open mind. Ty but am sure that water and spirit baptism is to different things and water can not give a salvation at all. But my words i like to say is: It's a good conscience with God Him self a promice too Him in one way. What says i Free will always stand with God, Jesus Christ and our Holy Spirit of God, who understand everything about me, u and all ppl.

Long to see you all, if not now in this world so in the coming. Love u all in Christ, God bless

Acts 9