All Discussion PAGE 1034

requesting prayer for me and family

Happy Birthday dear friends, the most important day for great Amerika.

God bless you all in the name of Jesus, i love you u Christ.

Acts 9

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Thank you GiGi for sharing that info. I didn't realize that the Church started to deviate from accepted practise at such an early stage. Just shows how easily we can be led away from the Bible & re-construct beliefs & practises to suit our Church dogma. And once we begin to stray a little at the beginning, one can rest assured that years & decades later, our beliefs & practises will hardly resemble what the early Church first received.

What should have been a simple straight-forward process of hearing the Gospel (as shared by Peter in Acts 2:14-36), many being cut in the heart ( Acts 2:37), repenting, being baptized & receiving the Holy Spirit ( Acts 2:38), today, in wanting to ensure that water baptism is not entered into lightly, there can be a delay in time of weeks, months, or years. Baptism then becomes something done as a mere ritual not giving regard to it being a necessary, immediate & accompanying part to one's repentance & belief. And we see this with Saul's conversion, Cornelius & those with him, the Philippian jailer, & the Ethiopian eunuch. There would have been no reason for any of these to raise objection to being water baptized, as the practise was simply, 'believe & be baptized' (they went hand-in-hand).

Not so according to today's Church, where one's faith has to be first clearly seen, having at least a basic knowledge of essential doctrines, & waiting, sometimes indefinitely, for the next planned water baptismal service. Is it any wonder why there is confusion & differing beliefs on this matter, when the Church itself has done nothing to rectify it, often leaving it as an optional extra for the new believer. The onus for baptism rests solely on the evangelist/preacher/missionary & not the convert, that as he enters this new spiritual world, he also enters into a new spiritual family who will look after him as a new-born babe, directing & teaching him till others can minister - and water baptism is the first step in his spiritual life.

Roy,

I think you would be okay to take Revelation 3:20 seriously. We do serve a merciful God. What I find interesting is that to this particular church, Christ was standing on the outside. And they had no need of Him. And they were lukewarm.

Have you ever seen that picture with Christ standing outside a door and He is knocking? I remember that picture hanging on a wall in our house growing up. But if you notice in that picture, there is no door knob on the outside of the door.

When Christ calls us, when He comes knocking at the door, we must not harden our heart, but respond to His call by opening the door to Him!

S.Spencer

I agree you that not everyone who is baptized is saved by being baptized. But in the same vein, I disagree that everyone who comes forward for an altar call or says a "winner sinner" prayer is saved. Many people who respond to an altar call or say such a prayer did not hear the true Gospel, but a "seeker-friendly" version that does not honestly speak of the person's abject sinfulness, absolute need for salvation because the alternative is a n eternity in hell as God's just judgment on sinners along with the good news of Who Jesus is and what He has done to save us so that our sins can be forgiven and we can repent of sin and live a new life in God. Many people didn't hear a message like that and had no conviction of sin or feel a need to repent. They wanted the "perks" of salvation without "counting the cost". I have been in a multitude of services where a faulty altar call was given and people came forward, but did not really get saved at that time. Also, I know of many people who were baptized that went on to apostatize or simply did it for "tradition sake". So, I think there is a right way to preach the Gospel to stir one's heart to repent and receive what God has offered and already done in their hearts and I think there is a right way for water baptism to be presented, practiced, and received. I think there is the command for both to be done, preach the true Gospel and water baptize new believers. And there is Scriptural precedence for the laying on of hands on newly water baptized converts to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I support all three of these being delivered to those God brings to us to witness to and to administer these things that were commanded and practiced by the apostles.

Hello Chris, I agree that if we baptized new believers like they did in the apostle's time our discussion would be different. But in our churches today, there are so many variations concerning water baptism:

"believer" baptism

infant baptism

baptism after receiving doctrinal training

baptism only by clergy

scheduled baptisms times (we baptize on the 4th Sunday of the month, i.e.)

Sprinkling or immersion

re-baptism

And there are many variant beliefs about baptism: what is it's purpose? value? Does it bring forgiveness of sins? Does it a person? Is it part of salvation process? Is it essential to salvation? is it required? Does it accompany the receiving of the Holy Spirit?

From what I have studied, the teaching that: we do not have to obey Christ's commands to be baptized because that was for the Jews and after Jesus went to heaven, it is the Holy Spirit Baptism that we must -is a fairly recent teaching, being introduced only in the last century or so. Before that, in the time of the apostles, water baptism was the norm with the belief that the Holy Spirit cleanses us from sin and indwells us at the time of our conversion and baptism, since these two events normally followed each other closely in time. Infant baptism became common a few centuries after the time of the early church. With the increase in persecution in the early centuries, many people held off being baptized out of fear they should fall away under persecution they would not be able to be re-baptized should they renounce their apostasy. It was in the late 1st and early 2nd century where new believers went through doctrinal instruction before being baptized. I am not sure when this change occurred from being baptized upon conversion in the time of the apostles. If it began being practiced in the churches the apostles visited, it must have been approved by them because there is no mention of this in the epistles or Acts discouraging the practice of doctrinal teaching before baptism.

The first message the word of god said to me on october of 2008 is:

this is the word of god.

days later the word of god spoke to me and said:

have faith and believe in the word of god.

on november of 2008 the word of god spoke to me and said:

i am the lord thy god,

i am the word of god,

i am the just judge.

days later the word of god spoke to me and said:

never loose faith in the word of god.

in the beginning was the word and the word was with god, and the word was god.

john 1:1

Hello everyone!

Pls help me to pray my family we have lot of problems when it comes with our financial,relationship,unstabble job of my father and also my school l feel so worry if l still pursue my college or stop and look for a job to help my parents.l feel so unhappy and guilt when l see my mother feeling streess with our situation.l always praying to god and trusting his plan to overcome this problem.

Most people quote it as Adam said, money is the root of all evil. However, your statement is the correct Biblical statement. The "...love..."

God bless everyone this 4th of July, 2022. May the LORD bless us all as we pray for the wisdom of the LORD through HIS salvation unto the leaders of our nation.

Hello Tracy,

Are asking about being on this particular site? it is a Bible forum. Are you asking something else besides that?

It is referred to as being lower than the angels because they suffered death. Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Having a Christian person that understands the nature of the Holy Spirit , God has provided us with the power of agreement and this is what I need now agreement that GOD will prevail

S. Spencer,

I think we speak about loving God and our neighbor often on here. It is the command of our Lord for us to obey continually in our lives. I don't think that bringing the topic of loving God and man into a discussion about water baptism shuts the thread down, They are different aspects of the Christian experience and both should be discussed on here. We refine our thinking when we wrestle together with such topics.

The love of God is the key to all things. If He was not Love we would not be. If He was not Love He would not have planned for our salvation before creation. If He was not Love there would only be Wrath for us sinners. If He was not Love, we would never have any good in our lives, only misery.

But He is Love and Life and all the other attributes that are inherent in Him as the Supreme and only truly necessary Being in all creation. If there was not creation, He would still BE and continue to be satisfied within Himself. He does not need us, but we need Him in the most fundamental way. Only He can give Life. It does not exist outside of Himself.

When I think of His magnificence and transcendence, I am awed. When I think of His love and mercy, I am thankful. When I think of His greatness and power, I am assured that He will answer prayer. When I think of His holiness and perfect goodness, I am reminded of the depth of my sinfulness. When I think of His perfect justice and wrath, I am satisfied that He will do what is right. When I think of His truth in His Word and righteousness of His will, I am encouraged to seek to know Him more fully and obey Him. When I think of His infinite wisdom and worth, I am led to worship Him. When I read what Jesus has commanded, I develop a love for what is truly good.

So, there are a myriad of things we can discuss about our "beyond what we could ask of think" God.

Like Paul, I love the commands of God. They are good. They are a guide to us. They show us what God determines as morally righteous or good.

Thank you so very much in the name of Jesus, I'm not knowledgeable of the reference at hand however if you have additional information on this subject please share

I give thanks to GOD for the ability to place him first before all things and the ability to appreciate the knowledge of others in my time of need

Hello again, Steven

I am not sure the original question here was "Is water baptism essential for salvation?" I will say that Jesus said that it is what new disciples are to do when they believe the Gospel. That is not saying it is part of our salvation because salvation is all a work of God and not of man. This is termed as monergism (a one-sided salvation), as opposed to synergism (where God and man brings about salvation). Yet Scripture clearly teaches about man's response to the salvation received from God-repent from one's sinfulness, believe in one's heart, confess with one's mouth, and be baptized. So, will repenting, believing, confessing, and being baptized are all done by man, none of these saves a person. It is Christ's work and the Father's will and the Spirits power that saves us. But, that said, when we repent we avow that we are sinful and wish to turn from our sinfulness, when believe we are using the faith the Spirit gave us, when we confess, we are agreeing with what God has done to save us, and when we are baptized in water, we are attesting to being cleansed from all sin. I think that all of these things are important as we come into the reality of being regenerated and recipients of this salvation.

God is the judge of all creatures. He knows who He predestined and called. He knows who He has regenerated and justified. Our part is to love God and in loving Him we will do what He commands us to do: repent, believe, confess, be baptized, live a godly life, learn true doctrine, study His Word, pray, etc. All of these things are hallmarks of a regenerated person and witness to the saving work of God in each believer. Our redemption is not based on us doing anything. We were dead in our sins, separated from God, and at enmity to Him. We are unable to come to Him on our own, but it He Who draws us to Him and causes us to hear or read the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it is He who makes us alive so that we can respond to His call and work in us.

Thank you for your insight and guidance

Roy

Jesse thank you a good number of my questions answered in one shot with "In the Bible, seven represents completeness, perfection".

I found this "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." in Revelations and I should like to take it literally and link it to GOD's mercy and the forgiveness of sins. Am I OK with that?

Roy

Hello again Alex,

I believe we have an external enemy, which is Satan and other evil forces, and internal enemy, our sinful nature that was not part of how God originally created man. This sinful nature is not the same as our mortal flesh, which includes all of our body and its systems, cells, faculties. God intended for us to have mortal flesh and said that it was created good. So, I am not sure if you are equating our mortal flesh with our sinful nature or not. Those who do equate the two are saying that our mortal body is evil in contrast to our spiritual nature is good. This concept is the heresy of dualism. The reality is that both our mortal body, our soul, and spiritual nature are affected by our sinful nature but none of these three aspects of our humanness are evil in and of themselves. Our salvation in Christ brings redemption to our whole selves, body, soul, and spirit. In this life we have the assurance of this salvation and the Spirit as a guarantee (downpayment) but our full redemption will come when our damaged and corrupted bodies are resurrected and changed to become immortal and incorruptible. This happens because part of this redemptive change removes the sinful nature completely from us at that time and we will forever be sin-free and unable to ever sin again. That will be one of the things that will be so wonderful about the eternal life we will inherit from Jesus. All the saints will never again sin against God, ourselves, and others. Our relationships will be perfectly holy forever. How great our God is to do this for us and not leave us forever captive to sin.

Hello S. Spencer,

Can you explain to me what you mean by Jesus command to make disciples and baptize is a dispensational teaching?

Dear Chris, I will pray for your niece tonight.

Dear Heavenly Father, we ask that You will heal Vickie of this cancer that is in her body. Please destroy every cancer cell and every chemical cellular signal that produces cancer cells in her body. Replace these alien cancer cells with healthy cells that match the function of every part of her body affected by cancer. We ask that you make Vickie well and whole, in the name of Your Son, Jesus. Amen.

Hello Alex,

Yes, I agree that Christ's suffering, death on the cross, His burial and resurrection on the third day bought and avails salvation to all who believe this Gospel. Salvation is of God from start to finish, from before the foundation of the world unto the end of this age into eternity. We receive this salvation wrought for us by the Godhead by turning to God and believing, utilizing the faith that was created in us when the Holy Spirit regenerated us at God's appointed time. We claim it for ourselves. We depend on the righteousness of Jesus to justify us. We acknowledge that the blood Jesus shed on the cross washes away our sins.

I do not think I remember reading Paul ever say that water baptism is not to be practiced by the church. I do not recall reading where the Baptism of the Holy Spirit replaces water baptism. This is because these things are not taught in the new Testament.

In the New Testament church it was the norm for new believers to be water baptized. Historical documents attest to this as well.

It is only in the past century or so that any sect of the church has taught that Baptism of the Holy Spirit replaces water baptism. I choose to believe the words of Jesus, the writings of the apostles, and the testimony of the early Church history and not the very recent teaching that water baptism is obsolete and Baptism of the Holy Spirit replaces it.

Hi Texsis. I realize that you want to end this discussion on water baptism & for good reason, as well it wasn't the purpose of bro. S. Spencer's good thread to engage in it. I've stayed out of this water baptism discussion for those reasons, but just to state, what I gather from the differing beliefs on it, especially whether it is necessary for salvation or not, we have lost sight of how it was originally conducted. When we look at how the apostles & early Church believed & practised water baptism, what we see now (as far as whose responsibility to obey the command, timing of baptism, coupling of repentance & baptism), is far removed from those early years. When we look at the Scriptures of early Church baptism in the Book of Acts & consider that if the Church today sought to practise it accordingly, I believe much of our divergent beliefs would be sorted out. I'll leave it here & just submit it for any who want to re-look at the Scriptures & see where the Church today has gone wrong.

Dear Paul,

I do not concur with you that we had actual existence before we were conceived in our mothers. I think the Scriptures you quoted tells us that we were in God's "view" before He created anything. He had each of us in mind to come into existence before creation. Jesus was is said to have been slain before the foundations of the world, but He only was born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, suffered, was crucified, died, was buried, and resurrected from the dead once in all of history. These verses are speaking of God's omniscience-He knew everything that will every be thought, said or done by anything and anyone He created before He created anything. he lives in the eternal now, without time constraints, and He also is so great that He does not find out what is done by His creation as it unfolds in time, but knows everything simultaneously. This is hard for us creatures to really comprehend. But this is what these Scriptures are really telling us. They are not telling us that we had life and existence with God prior to our physical conception.

yes the scriptures agree

Ro 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Please pray God opens a door for full time work with good wage and a place to live. Thanks Brothers/Sister

Hello, Dan 7 is about the Lion of the tribe of Judah who took the form of a servant, Php 2. The bear is about Peter and other Christian Jews who obeyed the vision of Ac 10-11 where Peter was told to kill and eat 3 times. The leopard is the saved Christian Gentiles and the 4th is the beasts of the Revelation combined into one great big deadly beast at the end. I also know who the 2 men are on the sides of the river in Dan 12 and the blessed one who waits. They are also in Zech 4; Rev 11; etc. I have the proof with 8 dates for about 12 OT and NT prophecies and more. Just email canabaptism yahoo com, anne robare

Hi Free GBU....Free i think in the end that God is gonna pour out his spirit on ALL Flesh as some of the prophets tells us about...Like Joel 2 : 28...and Acts 2 : 16...As Jeremiah saw ALL men in travail and birth pains.... Jeremiah 30 : 6 kjv...And thats y i think that everybody is gonna be bornagain in that last day....And Isaiah 11...speaks of a lil Child that is gonna lead all men to that holy mountain...which is the Kingdom of God...Free you are so right everything has to come from God...But Free that book in the righthand of the father has to be opened 1st...Which is the new covenant...Which states i will know them all from the least to the greatest...And their sins and iniquites will i remember no more....Free i think what Jesus did at calvary made us all clean...When he said its finished i think it was complete...I think what God told PETER, In ACTS 10 : 19...what I have made clean do not call common or unclean is exactly the way it is....I don't think we need water baptism anymore...Lest his blood was insufficient.

......I'm kinda like Paul i think that water baptism wd just make his blood of no effect... 1st Cor. 1 : 17 kjv....When ya tell folks that need water baptism for the remission of sins...You are in essence saying his blood was insufficient...Or some sins are too strong for his blood ya need a back up like water baptism for some folks that are really sinful...All the water in the world cd not make mankind sin free or incorruptible ...Its only by the blood of the lamb...I love what John the baptise said.. behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...ok lemme go

ok,Texsis, in re-reading I understand your use of the phrase better. Thanks for posting a clarification. I do believe that we are saved by the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit which enables us to believe the Gospel when we hear it spoken or read of it. It is a work of God and not of man. But we are called to make a confession of believing the Gospel with our mouths and in water baptism. I think obedience matters to God, especially on matters such as this.