Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 242

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Your strengthening the fig leaf covering here!

Chris, tell me, the experience you spoke of in your car, did you pull out your Strong's concordance for understanding, to correct your thoughts or for that matter to make you aware them? Or, was it the Light of God Spirit within you, that admonish you? Ephesians 5:13;

New life equated; being free from sin, not just in & of itself, but the best part, being partakers of the Divine Nature, union with John 17:21,22,23; Jesus came to show us the image & likeness that God created man in, Matt 11:29; Gal 5:22-24; this is the true dignity & glory of our creation, & how he took dominion over the earth. Mark 6:48,49; Mark 4:39-41; Matt 17:27; etc; fulfilling Gen 1:26 & will ultimately fulfill it through His body, the church, here on earth as it is in heaven.

I have not stated; as you're implying the perfecting of the body, physically, it still remains under the penalty of sin consequences. Yet can be pure & holy, being animated by the new birth & renewing of the mind by His Spirit; John 3:3-6; 1Thess 5:23,24; "wholly", not of position only, but possession.

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I mention; I Didn't advocate studying the Scriptures by carnal means, by the arts of natural science as you would for a vocation.

Doing this feeds the natural part in man, with a knowledge apart from the Life of God, nor can such knowledge give us the life of God, for how can it? The flaming swords which guards the Tree of Life only gives way to those who are led by the Spirit. 2Cor 3:6; The letter in any dispensation kills, giving him a form of godliness without the power to be truly godly. It a false form, promotes self righteousness, one doesn't come to 1John 1:1 in a personal encounter with the living God in Spirit, who would lead him to take up the cross, teach him to deny, mortify & crucify spiritual old man of sin, by the operation of the Spirit to the rebirth & renewing of the mind. Instead; it offers a fake cross that flesh carnal mind can easily carry & bare It doesn't separates him from 1John 2:16, but leaves him one in it. It takes away our dependence from God, Psalms 123:2; that God maybe all in all, for He alone is the blessedness of the creature.

I'm speaking not from hearsay, but from 27 yrs of personal experience, than in 2010 while in ministry school, God extended His outstretch Arm, encountering me again & slowly began opening the eyes of my heart, as I was able to bear it, to what I've been speaking of here, leading me to quit school & Luke 9:23

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OT promises, Isa 54:13 Jeremiah 31:33-34; confirmed in NT, Hebrews 8: 10,11,12; why is it that God doesn't remember their sins? Because He has cleanse them of all unrighteousness & has endue them with His Spirit & they sin no more. Jeremiah 32:39-41; The cause & effect of God teaching us Himself, & that by His Spirit John 14:13,14,15; with all His Heart & all His Soul; says the LORD, Selah.

Consider; it was not until the 14th or 15th century that these things became widely available, & then it was only to the learned & privilege. The Apostasy that the Apostles spoke of was already at work in their day & came into full maturity with the Roman Catholic's Rev17:2 for then the world was Rome. Daniel 2:40

Who taught Moses, etc; even Jesus John 7:15; the disciples etc; one educated, Paul & he Philippians 3:7,8,9,10; he relied on Philippians 1:19; What about all the people in time that didn't get a chance to learn how to read or were in the remote regions of the earth were the Scriptures were unavailable? Or hear the Good New being preach in the power of the Holy Ghost? His words are, "from the least to the greatest". His Spirit is able to reach them to the uttermost, even the blind, deaf, dumb-mentally, etc; Jeremiah 32:27;

Chris, everyone; consider these things. God is just, He's not going to condemn someone for something they did not know. Rom 1:17, which comes by Rom 10:17; which is in Rom 10:8; continue Rom 1:19; & that by His 1Cor 2:10; He's that Light that admonish you in the car, follow Him & He will lead ALL that do to the Father. He's the Treasure 2Cor 4:7 that's opens our understanding to the knowledge & the glory of God, it's the face of Jesus Christ.

You ask what define as sin? Rom 14:23;

In Love & Truth

Frankie J

Difficult passages in scripture: ordered extermination of children

One of the most challenging things in the Bible is where God ordered the extermination of every man woman and child in conquest of the Promised Land. There is one fairly satisfactory reason why some were killed in this way; they were children of the union of fallen angels and women as first mentioned in Genesis 6; Nephilim which were NOT human and therefore were never to rise again; such as are indicated in Isaiah 26:14 (Rephaim in original translation). They would go to a certain part of the underworld at death.

All other examples seem to involve human children and thus is beyond our scope of full understanding. In fact; such verses make us cringe. Only putting God's Holiness at the forefront of our trust can allow us to deal with such a difficult; painful and weighty matter. Such verses which indicate the death penalty for things which we as a "civilized society" would consider cruel (such as adultery or the example brought up in another recent post in Numbers 15:32-36 on a man being stoned for picking up sticks on the Sabbath) are also examples of things which in the "Age of Grace" aren't enforced today. We could say the same for National Israel when it was a Theocracy; there may be some return in the Millennium or end of the Tribulation when God conquers enemies through His people once again; but I digress.

I would state at this juncture that there is enough scripture to indicate that the soul of a human child will NOT be sent to hell upon death- Matthew 18:10 is probably the most convincing along with the story of David's unborn child in 2 Samuel 12:23.

There is a principle that judgment comes only when a nation is fully ripe for it; such as the case of the Amorites in Genesis 15:16; Nineveh after a respite following repentance; and in Sodom where it is entirely possible there were few if any children.

I will continue this discussion in further posts.

The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matt. 12:8; also in Mark 2:28). This would legitimize commemoration of Christ on Sunday as the early church seemed to do. Naturally; we need to take seriously devoting time on Sunday as a day of rest if it is a substitute for the O.T. law; however being that we aren't to follow things dogmatically as Colossians 2:16 or Galatians 4:10-11 suggest it is clear that in the Age of Grace there is some latitude there. Also; it is the attitude of the hearts that dictates what would be necessary work as Matthew 12:11 indicates in the example of saving an animal from a ditch when Christ was confronted with healing on the Sabbath; or eating grains of wheat in the field (considered "work").

We need to consider what was going on in the Exodus years when there were strict orders on Manna as a sort of initial principle. There people were ordered to collect for two days on the Sabbath eve; which contradicted the normal daily routine where it would rot and they were specifically told NOT to save any. Such verses as the example in Numbers should at least have us soberly examine ourselves and how preoccupied we are when we come together as a local church. Some Reformed or OPC churches will not discuss anything outside scripture on Sundays. While that may be a bit too strict; all the endless banter which seems to be discussed before services in particular could use some serious editing. Not only does it detract from the sanctity of the fellowship but it keeps those needing prayer from expressing those needs; as well as squelching opportunities to offer prayers over the cacaphony. An attitude of prayer; as well as discussing the Word and God's attributes should be something the Pastor and Elders motivate people to do. A swift rebuke once in a while in convicting messages on that subject would probably be in order as well. Knowing how deep a conversation can go can quickly determine those who God has led to Disciple us or not

Amen Brother Jesse.

I'm glad you are doing well!

I want to wish you and all others that it may apply to.

Happy Father's day.

God bless you.

The 10 Commandments and the Sabbath

There has been a good deal of commentary recently regarding the 10 commandments and whether or not they are for us today. I believe that they are absolutely part of the law of God, the entire Bible. And have not been set aside.

Now having said that, I believe that the fourth commandment to do no work on the 7th Day Sabbath is a very unique commandment. All of the other nine commandments are, in fact, a summary of God's moral law and have not been changed nor set aside. During the church age, these 10 Commandments were very often read to begin the worship service in Reformed churches. I believe that is a very good and very scriptural practice.

Now let's talk about the fourth commandment. The fourth commandment, to do no work of any kind on the 7th Day Sabbath became part of the ceremonial law system. And like all of the ceremonial laws they were pointing to some aspect of the Gospel. In the case of the forth commandment it is teaching that the True Gospel is a gospel of Grace Alone; and we are not to be trusting in any work that we do to become saved. Furthermore, as we read in Hebrews, Christ has performed ALL of the work to save us and has rested from that work.

We see how serious a matter this is as we read in Numbers the account of the man who picked up a few sticks on the 7th Day Sabbath. And what was his punishment for committing this seemingly Insignificant sin; I mean he wasn't out there cutting wood with a chainsaw or building a barn. He picked up a few sticks. And his penalty for doing this was DEATH by stoning.

I'm running out of space now, but when Christ arose on the FIRST DAY, all of the ceremonial aspects of the Old Testament were set aside. And we now have a Sunday Sabbath, the Lord's Day. Where we worship and do things related to the sending forth of the Gospel.

All of this can be demonstrated from scripture but I do not have the space nor time in this comment.

Hi Chris,

Here are my comments on the scripture you presented.

Jeremiah 31:33: God will put his Laws in our heart and minds. These would be the same 10 Commandments/Laws as well as the additional emphasis on those commands that Jesus added along with the additional Love your nieghbor command. John 13:34

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

Ecclesiastes 12:13: I think we agree for the most part that Gentiles have in fact received God's laws by by accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and becoming heirs of Abraham, and not only the original 10 but also the additional more comprehensive laws as discussed and clarified by Christ.

Mark 2:27: Yes, Jesus was talking to the Jews/Pharisees about the Sabbath, but now that we are Heirs of Abraham these laws also apply to us. I know we differ on this, but this is my belief based on scripture. Jesus was also talking to the Jews about the Gospel of the Kingdom but then gave it to the rest of the world, so all that believe become the heirs of Abraham/Israel.

And Revelation chapter 22: I agree that this Chapter is Jesus speaking to John, but I believe that Jesus is speaking of all the Commandments including His, and His Fathers - not just Jesus commandments that you referred. Also, hoping we both agree that Jesus is God and so then when Jesus states commandments - He is referring to all Commandments. I also do agree it is His Spirit that promotes us to willfully follow His commandments.

Regarding Romans 8:1-4 I'll reiterate the same comments I made to Giannis above. I agree that if we are Saved/Reborn Christians living our lives in conjunction with God's Holy Sprit that indeed is sufficient to receive salvation per the scripture. Very important: If, we are living by the Sprit we will be embracing God's/Jesus Commandments as the Spirit will certainly be directing us to do so, via God writing His laws in our body and mind.

GBU

Why God would choose to feed 5,000, or 4,000 is not only a miracle, but how and why is no disputation. Like all of Jesus works,His are so exceptional, with nothing comparable to His word! Only by His word! He calls all things into existence by His word. He creates life by His word. He raises the dead with His word! He holds all things together by His word.

Satan has no power than that which is given to Him by God. Even now as Satan and His followers have found their place in the congregation of believers. Soon, these places of worship will be silent and even so are now. It is impossible to serve God and man. These are the words of Jesus, as before those who yet believe shall soon see the judgment of God!

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." Repent and be Baptized

Hi GiGi,

Thanks for your responses, and sorry about my late replay. I appreciate your input on this discussion and I believe we agree on most scripture, including God's 10 Commandments/Universal Moral Law, and how it applies in our lives as born again Christians.

I also agree that Jesus taught us how to deal with the Sabbath as opposed to how he saw the Jews dealing with it at that time. He didn't deny the the Sabbath, but rather put it in the right perspective as you correctly mentioned with Matt 2:23-28. Jesus also took possession of it - by stating that He is the Lord of the Sabbath. Conversely, if Jesus didn't think it was necessary he could have simply said as much, but he didn't, he showed us how we should apply it in our lives. So I believe that the scriptures tell us that Jesus, the apostles, including Paul, and the Church did follow the Commandments and the Sabbath.

Gal 5:16 If we in fact truly walk with the Spirit , and worship God in Spirit - I believe we conform to all of God's commandments, as the Spirit will keep us on course. We will be aware of this, and when we deviate in sin, we can be forgiven through Christ, and get back up and walk in the Spirit. I believe our obedience to God's commands gradually becomes a lifestyle for us overtime.

So those that say they do not follow/adhere to God's 10 Commandments, seem to me, to be in conflict with walking/worshiping in the Spirit, because I believe God's Holy Spirit will stir us to keep His Commandments/Law, (written in our bodies and mind) and it will be impossible for a reborn Christian - not to follow - or want to follow Gods commands. I believe the Holy Spirit will continue work on Our Conscience to bring this about.

GBU

Amen to you .

Hi Giannis,

I appreciate your feedback, and all of your input. Sorry for the late reply, The 2 posts that I deleted, (1) to you, and (1) to Chris was by accident. I could not see the 2 posts in the thread but could see them in my comments listed as waiting. It had been many hours so I thought I would copy those posts and then delete - and repost. In the process I lost the original posts, so I'm beginning to formulate new replies to repost. So I'm getting backed up a bit. I reposted to Chris, and now here for you. GiGi is also in queue.

For the most part I believe we are in agreement on most issues surrounding the ceremonial laws which have faded away, and God's 10 Commandments/moral laws are still in affect for Christians today. Jesus said as much, and even emphasized how intricate these laws are Matt 5:28 to open are eyes so that we can be very aware of our sin, and to repent, and refrain from our sin.

Regarding Romans 8:1-4 I agree that if we are Saved/Reborn Christians living our lives in conjunction with God's Holy Sprit that indeed is sufficient to receive salvation per the scripture. Very important: If, we are living by the Sprit we will be embracing God's/Jesus Commandments as the Spirit will certainly be directing us to do so, via God writing His laws in our body and mind per the New Covenant.

So in summary; I believe that a saved Christian will be following and applying God's Commandments in their lives via the conviction of God's Holy Spirit.

GBU

Rev. 12 :17.....And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF God AND HAVE the testimony of Christ Jesus....

Why wd this woman keep the commandments when she has the testimony of Jesus.....Simply b/c the Child she has given birth to is the testimony of Jesus.....Remember Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me....Her Child is the testimony of Jesus .....And its he that is born of God that cannot sin....Her Child that is born of God cannot SIN...PERIOD.....Thus the commandments are fulfilled.....She can keep the commandments without even trying simply b/c her Child is the H.G. and its impossible for her Child to sin......Her Child is the testimony of Jesus....Sin is the transgression of the law but this woman cannot sin simply b/c a Baby Christ has been born in her that cannot transgress the law.....Thus the commandments are fulfilled.....Not done away with but fulfilled in a perfect sense.....She is being led by a lil Child the H.G.....That Child of Promise...Multiplication of his seed. the living word....God has put the law in her heart in the form of a baby Christ the H.G.....Thats what he did at Calvary in his blood.....Made a New Covenant that can only be accessed by hearing his voice the living word....Thats y the scripture is saying the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death..... Romans 8 :2 kjv

Romans 3:31 kjv.....Do we make void the law by faith....NO....God forbid, we establish the law.....Simply b/c Christ is gona be born with in us by FAITH...A spiritual Pregnancy....The son of Man....And its he that is born of God with in us that cannot sin thus the law is established....Not I that lives but Christ that Lives in me....Paul

I cannot see Jesus breaking one of the 10 commandments.....

Amen sister, God does hear your prayers and Jesus proclaimed that he is not a respecter of persons, as you correctly interpreted that you don't have to be a pope or priest to access God's grace amen. He also said that when "two or more are gathered in my name I am in their midst" what a wonderful promise from Jesus. Pray faithfully in Jesus name sister and expect that God does indeed hear YOUR PRAYERS Amen.

Thanks Bro. Dan for re-posting that previous comment. Looking at it more closely, these are my observances/responses.

Jeremiah 31:33: this is a new covenant with Israel that the LORD makes, where His Commandments are no longer on a tablet of stone but His Laws written upon their hearts. How does the LORD do this? Is it the same Ten Commandments now impressed deeply in their hearts or by the aid of the Spirit, enabling Israel to know ALL of His Commandments & have the power to obey them, which they didn't have before & with their eyes darkened? Romans 11:7-11.

Ecclesiastes 12:13: the Preacher writes about fearing God & keeping His Commandments. "Man" here must apply to Israel, since the Gentiles had never received any of God's Laws. But when the Gentiles did receive Christ (post Crucifixion/Ascension), learned of His Laws & subsequently received His Spirit, then yes, to fear God & keep His Commandments meant all of God's Commandments which included far more than the Ten: 'the Law of (from) the Spirit'; that 'which frees man from the Law of sin & death' (the Ten Commandments).

Mark 2:27: I see here that Jesus was talking with some Pharisees about the Sabbath. The Sabbath Day was given only to Israel, which has to be the 'man' spoken of. The Sabbath was never given to the Gentiles (Romans, Greeks, Syrians, Egyptians) who were living there at that time; at least we're not told whether they were required to observe the Sabbath Day when it came around.

And Revelation chapter 22: this whole chapter is about Jesus' Words with John. So 'his commandments' must refer to Jesus' Commandments & hence the right to the tree of life. Thus His Spirit gives us all we need to know & obey; it is by Christ's Blood & obedience to His Spirit that we 'gain entrance into the city', never by the Decalogue.

As well, I wrote a little to you on Romans 8:1-4, asking for your comment, if you so wish, as this passage is critical to understanding the Church's position with the Law. GBU

I read your latest response to mine but see that it has disappeared. But I would state that I have never put the Decalogue or any of the Commandments of God on an inferior level or lacking in Truth & with the full authority of God. That is never in question, even as Paul wrote in Romans 7:12, "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." And then as he continues in that chapter, that the Law, that was "good", was meant to show the exceeding sinfulness of his corrupt nature. He wouldn't have seen this in such light as a good devout Pharisee (i.e. such words could never come out his mouth); but now as one who has experienced re-birth, he can say 'that my eyes are opened to see what the purpose of that Law was'. Israel then, as now, cannot see what Paul saw; their obedience to the Laws before them (at least by the devout amongst them today), are what they expect to carry them through to blessing & eternity.

Therefore, I raised Romans 8:1-4 for your consideration. I was hoping in your comment to me, you would also refer to this very telling portion of Scripture that must apply to & affect every true believer, cutting deep into the heart. Again, Paul stated that the Law was limited in what it could achieve. Their words & one's diligent obedience to them could never give a person cleansing or the sure hope of eternal life - if it could, then Jesus should not have suffered & died. The Law failed miserably, as far as snatching the sinner from judgement. The Law was good & came in the Power of God but its purpose was limited in regards to salvation. Only through Jesus Christ & His Gift of the Holy Spirit could the "righteousness of the Law" be applied & fulfilled in the believer. Should then the believer go back & hang onto that Law, when the Law given by the Spirit, giving life in Christ Jesus, frees a sinner from a Law that only gave death? Sabbath-keeping can only be by choice - never by commandment & never to be imposed upon another.

Pt 2

About Sabbath now. The Sabbath was not just a rest day during the week. It was. a COMPULSORY holiday with many regulations about what is and what is not permitted. Sabbath was also the 7th year. There was also the Jubilee year. Paul makes it clear that we are not to keep those any more, he calls them " weak beggarly elements". Of course there should be rest days during the week and it is really good we have 2 days now instead of one, and vacations from our work etc. But there is a huge difference between Sabbath and Sunday. Sunday is just a rest day, it is not compulsory, there isn't anything we should avoid or should do. The early church selected the next day to Sabbath as the formal day for worshipping God, see the History of the Church. In doing that they tried make sure that those old things would not enter Christianity. The main danger for Christianity in those early years were Hebrew habits entering the church . And we see that,say, in the R/Catholic church where they have priests, celebrations and other which should not exist.

This is my point of view brother and if I haven't convinced you it is OK. I am not to insult you anyway. Thanks for your reply although you removed it.

GBU

Pt 1

Hello Bro Dan

I see you have removed your answer to me but I am still going to answer your points.

Moses' Law consists in general of 1. the Moral Law of which the 10 com/nts were a sort of summary 2. com/nts that had to do with the way the Hebrews should serve the Lord ie priests, sacrifices, the Temple, etc, 3. the State Law ie how Hebrews should govern their state, 4. Laws about feasts etc, 5. other Laws that regulate the relations of people within their community and many more.

Of course the Moral Law in general is still valid in the new form that Jesus has taught, see Matthew 5.

But what has to do with how Hebrews worshipped God has been cancelled. Why? Because all those things served as a shadow of things to come, ie the Temple of Solomon where God had His eyes on has become the Temple of our body where God (His Spirit indwells. Sacrifices of animals have been substituted by the sacrifice of the Lamb. There aren't now a specific people who are priests, all of us are now priests and kings and so on.

There are no feists and special holidays now like Pentecost, like Passover, etc also shadow of new things.

Christian Law is not any more a State Law, Jesus has separated the Moral Law from the State Law, ie offer to Ceasar what belongs to him and God what belongs to Him. Christianity should not be involved directly with politics by trying to enforce its views to others although we can influence them for better (this is a big issue that a lot can be said).

Many com/nts in the old Law about relations between people are now abandoned like divorces, like marrying more than one woman and other that were expressing societies of the 15-20th century BC.

See Pt 2

Hi Chris,

I understand, and you've related your position that you don't feel the need to follow God's 10 Commandments (The Decalogue as your refer to it). You state that it is only for the Jewish People. Conversely, I truly believe the scripture solidly supports that the 10 Commandments were for all of mankind, a moral law, a law that tells everyone what sin is. When God made the New Covenant He said I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts. Jer 31:33. Same Law.

When Jesus came, he said he did not come to abolish the Law, he came to fulfill it.and Jesus followed the law and I believe that he does expect those of us that follow Him, to follow these same Laws, as He states this in so much scripture throughout the bible.

Ecclesiastes 12:13"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." This verse doesn't say for this is the whole duty of the Jewish people. It says: for this is the whole duty of man!

Regarding the 4th Commandment: Keep Holy the Sabbath. Mark 2:27"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" Here again, this verse does not say the sabbath was made only for Jewish/Hebrew people.

I will leave you with one last verse, that I believe is targeted at those of us that wish to enter into the Kingdom of God.

Revelation 22:14"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

GBU

I mean 10 commandments, not 20. oops

Bro Dan,

Part 2

With that said, I do think that we are to not follow the regulations created by man as to what it means to keep the Sabbath. The Jewish leaders added many, many rules the people were to follow on top of the simple rule God laid out in the commandment to Moses and Israel. We are to rest from our regular work and toil. We are to take time to rest in Christ and commune with Him. We are to remember Him. We can do all of these things everyday to some degree. I am not one to insist that others keep the Sabbath in a uniform way. Each person should follow the Holy Spirit as to what is best for themselves and we are not to judge others on this matter. Isaih chapter 1 speaks of how God hated the Sabbaths and New Moon festivals, sacrifices, oblations, incense offerings made by the priests and celebrated by the Israelites. There hearts were far from the LORD and so their religious actions were called iniquity. We must be careful that we obey for all of the right reasons and none of the wrong ones that so characterized Israel when they came into the land and also the Jews of Jesus' day.

We must have a right spirit about our obedience to God. We are to offer up our lives to Him daily through loving Him and loving others. We are to desire to be transformed to be more and more like Jesus with each passing day, allowing the Holy Spirit to sanctify us and change us from glory to glory so that we will be a reflection of our LORD to others. Jesus said that He was the Lord of the Sabbath, and if we are in Him, we have the freedom that He had to pick grain on the Sabbath to satisfy hunger. ( Mark 2:23-28). It seems that Jesus was demonstrating that we are to be reasonable about what we do on the Sabbath, keeping it according to the Spirit and not according to the written letter.

Bro Dan,, I agree with you that the 10 commandments are universal laws of moral conduct that is fitting for one who believes in God and follows Him. I do not think of these as being Jewish laws either. I think they were given to Israel because this was the nation that God chose to be the ones to be witnesses of God to the nations. They failed so miserably except for the remnant of Israelites who actually believed God as Abraham did and then the remnant of Jews who, in Jesus' day, believed Him, and after the resurrection and ascension, those of the Jews that believed the Gospel proclaimed by the apostles/disciples and committed their lives to Jesus.

I believe that God would not give us laws that were unimportant or amoral. The 20 commandments tell us how we should live in community and before God in a very basic level. Jesus expects us to follow these moral parameters for our godly conduct.

We do not follow the commandments to earn our way to God's favor or salvation. We follow the commandments because they are truly good and helpful to us spiritually and temporally for ourselves and others we interact with. They help us know a glimpse of how holy and pure God is and also how exacting He is concerning man's moral responsibility. We can never meet this requirement and be perfect. Only God is perfect. So we must cast ourselves on the righteousness of Christ imputed to us to stand before the Father perfect.

What Christian would think that it is ok to murder or steal or worship idols? We know that these things are immoral and not fitting for believers to do. Same can be said of all the other commandments of the decalogue. The Sabbath rest indeed is for man, not man for the Sabbath. So God deemed it good for man to rest from his work and toil each week. We should see this as a good thing for us to practice for our own good. Also, having a regular Sabbath rest is a way for us to show that we honor God by willingly following His will and commands.

see part 2

Jesse, Glad to hear from you.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I am not too ruffled by what these men have said of me. I have pointed them out as posting false beliefs that are at odds with Scripture, so the blow back is not a surprise. I am waiting for the time when either of them will give a reply or initiate a post that is clear in its message and true to Scripture that will be of benefit to those of us here. I pray for them most days and look forward to the Lord working in them as He is working in me. I wish them blessing.

Jesse, I understand that you are busy. I thought that was the case. It is good to know that you do come here and read to keep up on things on this forum. You are a solid believer and I do appreciate you.

My dear brother and sister in Christ,

Thank you both so much for thinking about me. It means a lot. I have been coming on here almost every day to read. I just haven't posted in a while.

GiGi,

Please don't be discouraged by the mischaracterization that's been directed at you. I, along with many others know that you are strong in the Lord and have a great understanding of spiritual things.

It seems odd that the one saying these things to you very rarely receives positive feedback on the things he shares. You would think that would be a clue!

God bless you both. I'm still here and I still try and come on here every day. I have been extremely busy lately but hopefully things will slow down soon and I'll have more time to fellowship with you all!

I think we should "rightly divide the word of truth", this verse is speaking of the New Heavens (remember God is in the Third Heaven) and Earth, nothing about the previous Earth shall be remembered.

Thanks Gigi.

God bless you.

Hi Bro dan

It is true that Moses' Law asked Hebrews to observe the Sabbath.

But as Paul says in Galatians 3:24 the Law served as a schoolmaster (although "tutor and guardian for childs" is a more accurate translation of the grk "paidagogos") which leads people to Christ. That means that many things in the Old Law served as a shadow for things to come in the New Covenant, they served as a figure for the real things to come. So circumcision of the flesh is figurative for circumcision of the Heart (new birth), sacrifice of animals were a figure fot Jesus' sacrifice ... and so on.

Paul in Galatians 8-11 says "8. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9.But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10.Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11.I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

And in Collossians 2:16-17 he says, "16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days (FOR NOT HOLDING THEM): WHY NOT PAUL? BECAUSE 17.Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ"

Remenber when the apostles gathered in Jerusalem to discuss about the gentiles following or not the Law. They came up with a conclusion. What was that conclusion? Acts 15:28-29, "28. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29. That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

You see brother nothing to keep from the Old Law but only the above.

Besides Jesus said in some place that my Father works until now and so am I. God hasn't really gone to rest after the creation but works till now for the salvation of people.

GBU

Romans 9:6-7 seems to bolster what you are saying. Also Galatians 6:16 as to both believing parties being part of the true church. There are; admittedly certain verses that would seem to suggest that final prophetic fulfillment of O.T. prophecies fit into the church Age; particularly in the Book of Acts. Many of these promises only appear partially fulfilled; that would be demonstrated in those verses coming from Joel; or Psalm 1 which will not be completed until the Tribulation and Second Coming of Christ. Because of this; I sort of see a Covenant as well as Dispensational aspect to scripture. Most prophecy has multiple fulfillments with one final one in scripture; some don't like to attest to that reality to pinpoint their own eschatological or other doctrinal stance. I try to take these principles in my comments with many other facets of the Word; such as predestination and the fact that God works through man's "free will" to bring His plans about; clearly seen with Christ's crucifixion.

Rightly dividing the Word takes maturity and much practice and study. That affects our view of the "once saved always saved" concept vs the many warnings about falling away; for example.

As to Israel vs the church; a careful reading of scripture shows us that there are certain conditional and unconditional promises in either example. An eternal God of covenants has eternal things in His heart; thus the only thing that has passed away was the old covenant of the law which God Himself had; in His wisdom designed to eventually be replaced by Christ's atoning sacrifice instituting the New Covenant. The "great parenthesis" between the O.T. and Revelation (or between Daniel's 69th and 70th week) is partially hidden; therefore with certain aspects being revealed as related to the church in this "dispensation". There are already a few Gentiles who come to faith in the O.T.; just like signs today in Israel that show a shadow of what is to come in the future.

Gi Gi I pray for you, In Jesus name.....Rev.12:5....Now you have put your self in rank with satan the dragon that wants to kill the woman and her Child....Which is the H.G.....My doctrine is solely the doctrine of the manchild.....The H.G. that Child of Promise.....And its this Child the spirit of truth that is gonna reprove this world of sin and righteousness and Judgment.....He has neva known you Gi Gi, if he had you wd be with Child of the H.G.....But you are saying this is all hogwash....Clearly you are without understanding of spiritual things....GBU

Narrow is the way, that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).