Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 244

GiGi,

Oops. The earlier reference should be 2 Corinthians 5:6-8.

Hello GiGi,

I wonder if you might explain your understanding of the following verses.

3 Corinthians 5:6-8

2 Thessalonians 4:13-17

Jude 14,15

1 Corinthians 15 Particularly 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

Are these passages not teaching that when a True Believer dies, their BODY dies, i.e. "sleeps" and goes into the grave and their SOUL, in which they have been BORN AGAIN, goes to be present with the Lord in Heaven.

And are they not teaching that when Christ returns at the Last Day, He will come "on the clouds of glory"along with the Resurrected SOULS of those saints that have died before to be reunited with their Resurrected Spiritual BODIES and caught up, i.e. Raptured along with those saints still living who will be changed "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye".

But if the SOUL of a Believer dies along with their BODY, what does in mean to be BORN AGAIN and given ETERNAL LIFE at that moment?

How else would you reconcile these and other passages that teach us about what happens to the True Believer when they become "saved". And what happens on the Last Day in the Resurrection and Rapture of the True Believers?

I have no other solution than what I just said.

Part 2

Stephen in his apology to the Jews among others he said, Acts 7:38, "(7) This is he(Moses), that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"

Stephen calls the Hebrews in the dessert as church. Why? Because he wanted to show to Jews that the church is not something foreign, but it is actually them. And it was them, the remnant that Paul speaks about in Romans 11:5.

Romans 11:25-27, "(25)For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (27)For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins"

Blindness in part. The remnant with the nations who now entered the Covenant became the church, God's people, as always. And at the end the rest of Hebrews will enter God's saved people, the church which is the assembly of all saved people since the begining of the world.

And lets not forget that that initial church where unimaginary miracles took place and God showed His power so often was the Hebrew christian church.

So Hebrews and nations separate? No, but together in one.

So, Dispensansional theology? For me No, Covental theology.

Jesus now reigns sitting on top of the throne of David in Heaven over the new Israel, the CHURCH. And His reign will last for ever, as it is written in the Scriptures.

GBU

Part 11

Different Dispensations? No

Divisions in the Word of God? No

So what?

Continuity.

Often we hear about different dispensations of God's grace to different people through history. Like to Israel and to the church. But is this so?

Let's start from Ephesians 2:14-18, "(14) For he(Jesus) is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (16) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (17)And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. (18) For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father"

The above says clearly that God united Israel with the rest of the nations (who hath made both one). Israel is no longer considered as a separate people from the rest of the people but as one unified body. Israel and the Gentiles are now ONE BODY, the Church.

Often it is said that God made 2 Testaments, one (the Old) for Israel and the second and final for the gentiles. Right? No, it's wrong. God made the New Testament initially for the Hebrews.

Hebrews 8:8-10, "(8) ... He(God) saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people"

Hi Chris;

Rom 5:12-14

I would agree with all except, for the last sentence, beginning with "Absolute Purity". Luke 6:40; 1John 4:17; Rom 12:1; the plain write of the words used denotes we're still living in this world.

Hypocrites; I don't believe you intentionally imply this, yet the results of your statement implying this. They did not speak of the new birth, but from the new birth, 2Cor 5:17; Ezekiel 36:25,26,27; heart of flesh; denotes our life now in the flesh. Eph 4:24; you put Him on, here; Col 3:10; The apostles lived, enjoy & possessed what they preached; Philippians 3:15,16; Again, what God required of us is to live according to the measure of the Truth that He has revealed, the apostles received Acts 1:8' Eph 1:19; Eph 3:20; Col 1:29; to do so.

You stated "has sin left them or ever leave them: Never, but they can have victory over sin; this is an oxymoron. Being born again of His Spirit alias; Matt 3:11-12; the threshing floor of the heart is thoroughly purge of the chaff. (sin nature), the spiritual old man of sin, the Adamic nature that animates the flesh. He's deny, mortify & final crucify, he's dead & self is seen no more. All by the Grace appearance within our hearts.

Friend,,,,your covering yourself, but not with the Spirit of the Lord, but with; Gen 3:7;

Your the understanding is veiled, for only the spirit of darkness would plead for sin to remain within one, after all that God has wrought & revealed to us through His Son. For he (Satan) knows that despite one's profession, though maybe ever so high or lofty, & profess with elegant words, it what one does that defines him, Rom 6:16; John 8:34; Rom 2:6;

Hebrews 9:11,12,13,14,15; do you hear what the Spirit is saying here? The flesh purified, OT, now in NT even our conscience cleanse, the heart. Eternal inheritance Roman 8:17; 2 Pet 1:4; John 17:21-23;

Therefore, 2Cor 7:1;

In Love & Truth

Frankie J

Hi Giannis,

Thanks for the information. I think that using the word for soul in the Hebrew text indicates the Hebrew belief that the soul and body are unified and thus when the body dies, so does the soul, especially if they did not believe in an afterlife.

Hello GiGi

Just for information.

Actually the Hebrew text says that "the soul of the flesh is in the blood",[ki nphsh ebshr bdm ---that soul-of theflesh intheblood, Hebrew Intelinear Bible]. The Septuagint says the same [he psyche(soul) pases sarkos haima(blood) autou esti(is)--- the soul of every flesh is its blood" which is slightly different].

BUT it is always interpreted (even in modern Hebrew and Greek) as "life".

Also I agree with what you posted.

GBU

I disagree with you GI GI.....We cannot study our selves into the Kingdom of God.....Its gotta come by divine revelation.....and a Child has to be born in us which is the H.G. That Child of Promise.....As Jesus told Peter Flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you but my Father in heaven.....Which is the H.G. the gift of God.....An incorruptible seed has to be sown in us that initiates a new Birth of Christ in us....Thats y he has to know us....So that his good seed will be sown in our hearts.....Thus the babes and sucklings .....Which are baby Gods thats y their praise is perfect.....Outa of the mouths of babes and suckling thou has perfected Praise.....To whom the word came ( the living word) it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken.....

His good seed the word has to be sown in our hearts initiating Faith a spiritual pregnancy....When a woman is pregnant she has the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen....But our fetus is the H.G....As that which is born of the spirit is spirit...She brought forth a man child that is gona rule all nations which is that spirit of truth that is gona reprove this world of sin and righteousness and Judgment.... Gal 4 :19 My lil CHILDREN of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you.....Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in....That Hidden manna.....Plz note their is no SALVATION OR KINGDOM till the woman gives birth to the Children as says in Rev. 12 :10.....Thats y Jesus is saying these things are HID from the wise and Prudent...But only revealed unto babes....His babes...His seed etc....Behold me and the Children the lord has given me are they not for signs and wonders to the house of Israel.....They are our new hearts and new spirits.....The H.G. is truly the Israel of God a heavenly ppl that are gonna be born in us....The sun does not lite on them or any heat nor do they ever hunger or thirst simply b/c they are Spirits..Th H.G....

Has the whole world been deceived as recorded in Revelation 12:9? The 'Word of God' is the truth in all things ( Romans 9:1;

1 John 2:27).

Be not Deceived ( 1 Cor. 6:9; 15:33; Gal. 6:7).

Parables

I feel compelled to say a few words about comments that I read regarding "parables" and "hidden meanings" in the Bible.

Let me say upfront that I do not hold to the understandings set forth by Pierre, Landry and others who are presenting ideas that, I believe, are very contrary to what the Bible declares. And I think my comments to them demonstrate where I stand regarding their view.

Now when it comes to "parables" and "hidden meanings", we must start with a principle that God lays down in the Bible that is expressed in Matt 13, Mark 4, Psalm 78:2, and perhaps other passages.

So lets ask, What is a "parable"? The best definition I have heard is "A Parable is an Earthly Story with a Spiritual Meaning". I believe that every "parable" in the Bible is teaching some aspect of the GOSPEL. This is certainly true when we read the parables that Jesus spoke.

But what about passages where God does not specifically identify them as a "parable"? We read, for example that Jesus is "the Lamb of God". Are we to understand that Jesus is a physical lamb? Of course not. God is using this figurative language to identify Christ with the lambs and other animals that were sacrificed as a picture, a shadow, at type of the sacrifice of Christ Himself as the Savior required to pay for our sins.

In the miracles that Jesus and the Apostles performed we are not told that these are "parables". But in raising Lazarus from the dead, in healing the sick and the lame and the blind; are these not pictures of Salvation where Christ raises the Spiritually Dead, heals the Spiritually Lame, gives sight to the Spiritually Blind. Who would deny this?

Then we come to other events recorded for us in the Bible that may not be quite as obvious at first blush. The Book of Ruth, the Book of Esther, other historical events recorded in the Bible. In addition to being very literal accounts of these events, should we not look for a deeper spiritual meaning, always relating to the Gospel in these event?

That is good, Joleen. I pray that he will continue to overcome this infection.

Dear Alex,

I disagree with you.

I think that Jesus was saying that He made it so that those who thought they were wise and prudent in understanding spiritual matters would not understand, making their ears not hear and their eyes not see. But it is those who are reborn that are able to understand that which has been written in Scripture in light of the gospel and work of Jesus for our salvation. I believe that the New Testament interprets the Old Testament so that what was written in the Old Testament is given correct interpretation in the new Testament.

I do not think as you do, that every Scripture has a hidden meaning. Much of what is written in the Word is easily understood by believers without resorting to some hidden meaning or knowledge because the Holy Spirit brings understanding to us if we continue to read the whole of Scriptures. The more we read from both the New and Old Testament, the more we understand what God was conveying to us and the Holy Spirit helps us apply it to our lives.

Hi Ryan,

I would agree with Adam's advice above, and I disagree with Chris on this issue.

You're asking a great question that all of us should be asking ourselves each day.Based on the scripture we should always be putting Christ/God FIRST in our daily lives - not last!

As a Christian if we are not putting God first, then we should reevaluate our priorities. Whenever you have an issue like this ask yourself: Are you living for the world - or are you living for God?

Mark 2:27

"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"

God loves us so much, and He knows everything that we need to stay healthy, so he gave us a day of rest every week. The Sabbath Day is really a gift! He wants us to observe this blessed day to rest our bodies and minds, give thanks and commune with God and others, and use this time to regenerate ourselves - and refrain from our normal work day routines.

GBU

Gi Gi.....Jesus says in Matthew 11:25.....I thank you Father Lord of heaven and earth that you HAVE HID THESE THINGS from the Wise and Prudent and only revealed them to babes and sucklings.....Thus every thing has a hidden meaning that only the babes can understand......Who are the babes.....the H.G. our new innerman.....That New Creature that has to be born in us....As that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. the Children of Promise.....That New Born babe desiring the sincere milk of the word is the H.G. That Child of promise....Which answers to our new hearts and new spirits...So plz don't tells folks there is no hidden knowledge.....ok gbu

To Josiah Skiff;

the life of youth is energetic, lively & spirited, there's much hope & aspirations towards one's future. Its appears you have much going for you. I have notices from observation of others & my own experience that wisdom was much lacking in youth vigor.

I would ask you to consider these words, bring them to your mentors to receive a godly counsel Proverbs 11:14

The definition of a Christian in its simplist & purest form is to be Christ-like, He's John 14:6; ask yourselve is this becoming a Navy Seal something Jesus would do? Believes follow Christ in the regeneration & are change empowering them to Luke 6:27-31;

When the disciples want to call down thunder from heaven to destroy lives; Jesus replied Luke 9:55,56; denoting it the influence of spirit of darkness to kill & destroy lives. James 4:1,2,3,4; escape the corruption that is in this world through lust & 2Cor 6:17;

I would encourage you to lay down your weapons Isa 2:4 & become a soldier of the Cross. 2Cor 10:14; Marry your sweet heart & live 2Cor 5:15;

May His Light shine upon you, Blessing

In Love & Truth

Frankie J

1.what role did th Holy Ghost play in the life of Christ? 2. What role did the Holy Ghost play in development of the New Testament Church? 3. what roles dose the Holy Ghost play in the lives of people today? thank you for your answer helping me to uderstand. Question.

Page 2.

Romans 7. You stated, "Paul here is relating his struggles in the operations of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience". If this is as you say, then it certainly implies that sanctification can only be realized when the sins of the flesh are dealt with. When sin is removed completely, then sanctification is complete. See his agony in Romans 7:14-25, with his final exclamation "with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." His 'members' were still captivated by the 'law of sin', but in his renewed mind (& heart) he served God with all his strength.

Re: using Hebrew/Greek, I would disagree with what you shared. If that's the case, let us not read the Bible at all & just be led of the Spirit in all things, since the Bible we read is in English (maybe another by-product from Babel). Knowing, or at least inclined to learn, from the original languages is one of the greatest endeavors to understanding the Bible & when we understand it, the Holy Spirit might make those heavenly Words meaningful to our hearts & enabling them to be applied to our lives. If the Word of God that we read is already Spirit-charged, then I regard that written Word of equal authority to the other ministries of the Holy Spirit to God's children. But it's important as to how we read the Word & rest our beliefs on a correct & firm foundation; for upon this our beliefs & ministry are built. Blessings.

Page 1.

Thank you again Frankie J for the lengthy comment - I shall pick up on the 'important' matters.

Romans 5:12-14. I certainly agree that spiritual death is seen in these verses, but also that as a result of sin's entrance into A & E & then into humanity, physical death was also the outcome. If this wasn't the case, would you say that A & E would have experienced physical death anyway if they remained without sin? I liken this to what our state will be in the Millennial Rule of Christ & beyond, where sin is finally vanquished & physical death will be no more. Both spiritual death & physical death are results of sin & the human corruption. Absolute purity of life, without any stain of sin can only be attained after we leave behind these bodies of sin.

I certainly don't "imply that the writers of the Scriptures are hypocrites". Rather, they speak of the new birth, the new revived spirit in man & what this means & how we ought to live. Even in Romans 6 as you quoted, where the apostle writes of 'death to sin, crucifixion of the old man, & being freed from sin', can he or anyone who received his message ever claim that sin was now eradicated from every part of their being? Rather, the message has always been not to let sin have dominion over them. What is this? Sinlessness, or through their new birth & abiding Holy Spirit, they should never be servants to sin but to righteousness. Here we have the new God-given life, in mortal sin-affected bodies, determined now by the Spirit's Work, to live for God & doing His Will & not be servants to sinful passions. Has sin left them or ever will leave them? Never. But they can have victory over it & so the great need for that blessed spiritual armor to deal with Satan's onslaughts & not live in defeat. We might now live unto God, but sin will always be at our door & we will always fail simply because the sin nature is still active revealing itself even in the most insignificant of sins; because we know that sin is sin.

Dear GiGi and all. Thank you wery much. And u know We are Already blessed in the heavenly world. Ephesians 1:3-5

Love u al in Christ

Saturday is the Sabbath so of course its not wrong to follow God's example for a day of rest. It's one of the 10 commandments!

It looks like the word is astonied. If you click and view other translations there are others using that word too.

Hello Landry

You said : >>> Leviticus 7:20-27 .... even the SOUL that eateth the fat of the beast .... even that SOUL it shall be CUT OFF (done away with) .... Prophecy ...

but the blood is not the soul ..... Can blood eat the fat or the beast?

Dear Frankie,

I am one who does not hold to the view that the physical body is evil in itself. God designed it. It is good. The 'flesh' that is spoken of often by Paul is our sinful nature that always seeks to sin through our body, mind, and soul. But, as the result of the fall of Adam and Eve, our body is subject to the corruption that comes from the sinful nature that brings illness, deterioration, and death to all who live in this earth. Our bodies do not think up the sin it does, our sinful nature does, and it tempts our minds to carry out the sinful thoughts and urges in our thoughts, words, and deeds, and also from doing the good we ought to do.

Dear Earl, (Landry)

I am not in agreement with how you characterized my beliefs nor with your interpretation of

Scriptures.

Even so, thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. We just do not have much thinking in common as far as I can tell from the many months we have been on this forum together. To me, you are a false teacher, and one whose teachings I should scrutinize carefully and not accept readily.

God bless.

Hello oseas,

Thanks for the reply.

It seems that we are very far apart as far as how we approach and interpret Scripture. I do not know of a verse that tells us to search for hidden and obtuse meanings in Scripture where the plain meaning fits with the context of the verses being studied. I think that looking for "hidden knowledge" in Scripture will lead to much error. It was what the Gnostics did in the early days of the Church and were spoken of as people whose ideas believers are to avoid.

Dear Oseas,

The Leviticus 17 verse you quoted does not say that the soul is in the blood. It says that life is in the blood of the flesh. if one were to give blood and too much blood was drained from the body while still alive, a person would die because the blood loss would rob the body of life-giving oxygen, nutrients, and other substances necessary for the body to stay alive. We could breath all we want while the blood is being drained but oxygen from the lungs will soon be unable to be carried to the rest of our body, especially our brain, and breathing will cease and death would follow as the heart stops beating from lack of oxygen to trigger the automatic muscle contractions needed to pump the blood.

So, the soul is different from the blood. It is not a physical part of our being, but a spiritual. Death releases the soul from our body, and we spiritually enter the abode God determined for the soul of the dead to live until the resurrection. I think, like David that the soul of a believer goes to heaven to be with Jesus there. But unlike David, I believe that the soul of the unbeliever goes to a place without Christ to suffer turmoil. Each soul of the believers and the unbelievers will re-enter our resurrected bodies at Christ's return to be glorified with our bodies.

Who was jabez

excellent work

David

"what I believe the Bible declares"

This is just the point David,I've been making all alone. Faith does not come by reading, studying, pastor preaching, Sunday school, etc: Its comes by Rom 10:17; this is the faith that Paul preached, speaking to you personally within your heart. These others maybe good execises to support & encourage if there inspired by Holy Spirit. But it cannot stand alone or take the place of having a personal relationship with Jesus, & this is what God has set His heart upon. John 14:21,23,26; John 17:21,22,23; Our faith is cannot be base on other people experinences, though ever be so helpful. In the work of regeneration we come to 1John 1:1-4 Here John is speaking of His Spirit appearance within our hearts, the Life/Light was manifested, Grace appearance. As we diligently hearken to His still small Voice we come to experiential knowledge of the Lord, 1John 5:20; "we have heard, seen with our eyes & have looked upon & our hands have handled of the Word of Life, spiritually, in this working out of our salvation. Hebrews 9:28; 2Cor 4:6,7; that the excellency to the Power to understand & receive the things of God, is of God & not of ourselves. John 3:27; We come to know His mind/will & good pleasure. Its what King David experience in Psalm 119:130; it what made him more wiser than his teacher Psalms 119:99; it was his Psalm 119:105; Psalm 123:2; Psalm 59:9; Psalm 69:3 & he commands his soul to wait upon the Lord Psalm 62:5; its call in Scripture the Key of David, Rev 3:7; He alone can Rev 5:2,5; Isa 22:22: He is the Treasure we have in these earthen vessel. Col 1:26,27,28; 1 Cor 2:12;

Blessing to you, you have a great desire & a zeal David.

in Love & Truth

Frankie J

Thankyou H4nn4h.7*" , he's much better now , all thanks to God for His beautiful creation and loving kindnesses .