Discuss John 3 Page 10

Friends;

Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.

I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;

Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;

As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.

Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.

This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;

It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;

Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.

SSpencer

Yes, "to atonement of sin GOD requires perfection", so to understand this deeply mystery of redemption then the Word of GOD takes us millennia back, i.e. to Genesis, and describes for millennia the battle between GOD and the DEVIL in the process of redemption of man through the birth of "a perfect Lamb" , our Lord JESUS Christ, who still was in the bosom of the Father.

That said, only the Omnipotence and Omniscience of GOD could provide a perfect Plan for MAN's salvation that was raptured by the Devil,even in the garden of Eden(a clue:Matt.23:35 combined with John 8:44).Having happened an usurpation of GOD's creation by the Devil, a former and superpowerful Cherub, even in the garden of Eden,then GOD Almighty made a long term Plan of works(6 Days/6 millenniums) to redeem His creation in six Days, i.e. to redeem His created man from the Devil's power, and the first step to start His Plan of restoration, was to clothe Adam and Eve decently, by a GOD's clothe, replacing the leaves of the fig tree - the clothe that was derived from the former Cherub, the Devil, the fig tree, that is the MAN of sin, the tree of good and evil.

After this, the Omnipotent GOD make the same Devil's captived Adam and Eve bring forth Abel,a keeper of sheep, and Eve was silent, and said nothing. But before Abel,was born Caim and Eve said:"I have gotten a man from the Lord".It's false, Eve lied terribly;Caim was of Devil- 1John 3:12

Satan knew Abel was GOD's seed, so he killed Abel. GOD's Plan was to seek a godly seed";Adam knew his wife again; Eve bare a son-Seth-,saying: GOD has appointed me another seed instead of Abel whom Cain slew. And to Seth there was born a son; Enos, then began men to call upon the NAME of the Lord. Genesis 5 describes the generation of the godly seed that GOD did seek until Noah, 1656 years after Adam.

Later(2080 after Adam)was born Abraham;2500 years after Adam was born Moses, the battle against Satan is more strong and intense. GOD's works continues

Numbers 21:8.....God tells Moses that he wd have to make a bronze Serpent and put him on a pole and when someone was bitten they wd have to behold the Bronze Serpent....Is this not a picture of the Church that gets bit sometimes but if we behold the lamb of God that taketh away the Sin of the world.....Our snake bite is not fatal....Jesus said that as Moses lifted up a Serpent in the wilderness Even so must the son of man be lifted up..... John 3:14.....What Moses did in the wilderness with that bronze Serpent equates to what God did with the lamb of God.....We are still in the wilderness.....We have not got to the Promise land yet we are still in the wilderness of Sin and sometimes we get bit....But here is Romans 8:2.....The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made free from the law of snake bite and death......Sin and death.....Thats y Jesus is saying Even as Moses lifted up a serpent in the wilderness even so must the Son of man be lifted up.....Jesus answers to the bronze Serpent.....But now under this New Covenant we behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world.....What Moses did in the wilderness with that bronze serpent made Israel free FROM the law of SNAKE BITE AND DEATH.....But what Jesus did at Calvary by his blood is gonna make Humanity free from Sin and death...As John said behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world....The manchild which is the H.G. is gonna reprove this whole world of sin and Judgement and Righteousness.....Which is the result of this New Covenant the blood of the lamb from Calvary.....Thats y Jeremiah saw all the world in travail and Child birth Jere 30:6 ...The Children are spirits an Israel of God....Thats y it is saying a time of Jacobs troubles impling an Israel of God...Simply b/c the H.G. is that Israel of God.....That Heavenly Jacob the 3 rd person.....Ya gotta realize that Jesus sows a greater seed then Abraham......A heavenly seed impling spirits...Born of the spirit is spirit.

Frankie J

Yes, I believe we can, if we have Faith in God, and Believe in His words, and we live in His Spirit, Jesus tells us all things are Possible. Matthew 17:20 1 John 3:5-9 and 2 Corinthians 5:17

Just like the scripture above, we would like to believe it, but we have doubt, and so our unbelief continues to provide Satan the opportunity to sow doubt, and we give him a resting place in our mind, and the ongoing ability to continue to control our mind.

Today, all we hear is a loud and deafening drumbeat from Christians telling other Christians - we can never stop sinning, reinforcing sin contrary to what Jesus tells us what he expects from us. John 8:11 and John 5:14

"Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

Today God gives us the same choice that he gave Adam and Eve. Gen 2:16-17 But we continue to eat from the wrong tree.

GBU

Isa 38:3; 1 Kings 11:4; 1 Kings 8:61; "present tense", Luke 1:5,6; they were perfect under the gospel of their dispensation. What God requires of us, is to walk uprightly according to the Truth that we know.

NT

a perfect sacrifice requires a perfect offering Matt 5:48; Rom 12:1; Perfection is required. He's the head, we're His body, is Christ sinful?

Gigi, describe perfectly the heart intent of a believer journey in the work of regeneration, except, not being able to overcome all sin. 1John 3:8; the perfect work of Grace purges out all iniquity, Titus 2:14; the littlest of leaven, leaveth the whole lump.

Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the son's of God, & the Spirit of God will never, never lead one into sin. Therefore we know by who spirit we are of; 1John 3:9,10; Matt 17:17-23

Dear Skydill Imagine so many people crying their eyes out every day because their conscience can't bear it. For when we come unto Him, first of all, He will give us light. Then He gives us comfort. Then He gives us love, and much more. Because we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord, that He is the Son of God. In this light, darkness fails to be! We become new man filled with all good things that God Himself wants us to be, fellow human beings, helpers, we are not to be judges. We shall endure it all.

1 Corinthians 13.

And best of all, we get a big gift. We receive the Holy Spirit when we confess Jesus Christ. And in that moment, you are forgiven.

How do you know you are forgiven? Unless we get an immediate experience so that we really feel like we're born again. We have the growth we have/get that comes from God, He show us that. From that day on, we begin on the path to a sanctification and glorification so that we will become more like Jesus. On this path, we must continually make sure that we are in the light God wants us to be. Daily be His in words, thoughts, and ferments. And go with peace as Jesus did.

Take up our cross. And follow Him. Take up God's sword every day and pray for family members, loved ones. We pray for peace for Jerusalem and we pray for Israel's salvation. If we live daily with the Holy Spirit, He guides us in what to pray for. And I'll promise you that the answer to prayer will be immediate. John 3:16

Then we come to sin: the one who leads to death. That's it and don't believe in Jesus Christ.

May envy, strife, stealing, killing, and all things that are not in the light be far from us all. That we are always in the light with God. John 8:12. And if we have a conscience/Holy Spirit that tells us things we've done wrong. Then we run to make amends. In this way, the outside world will also see us as foreigners. And then we are not the kind of people who commit sin. Love u in Christ, and stay close to the word of God. John 2.

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Thank you Frankie J. You wrote: "I have not stated; as you're implying the perfecting of the body, physically, it still remains under

the penalty of sin consequences." Actually, I always go back to the original post or question, i.e. "Can we reach a state of perfection in our lifes on earth , where we actually sin no more?"

I apologize, I understood that your original question did imply (or at least seeking) answers to that question of reaching perfection in our earthly lives. And from our discussions, I gathered that you did in fact believe that it is possible to do so; so sensed that you might be at or near that blessed state. Whereas the basis of these discussions between us is that my belief is that we will never reach that state in this life: our spirits might be renewed & made pure, but we still live in corrupt flesh & thus sin ever waits to manifest itself & it does so.

Yet, your statement continued: "Yet (the body?) can be pure & holy, being animated by the new birth & renewing of the mind by His Spirit; John 3:3-6; 1Thess 5:23,24; "wholly", not of position only, but possession." This is the point of our difference. As you wrote: "wholly, not of position only, but possession". Yes, we are 'sanctified wholly', but I'm afraid that what it boils down to is that your understanding of sanctification or wherever 'perfection, complete', etc. are used, you take it as being perfectly pure/clean now. And I think you will remember from my previous comment, that I don't subscribe to this type of application; even citing examples from 1 John 4:17 & Romans 12:1. So I think we need to leave that matter there, as we simply cannot reconcile those (& other) verses to what we believe.

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Your strengthening the fig leaf covering here!

Chris, tell me, the experience you spoke of in your car, did you pull out your Strong's concordance for understanding, to correct your thoughts or for that matter to make you aware them? Or, was it the Light of God Spirit within you, that admonish you? Ephesians 5:13;

New life equated; being free from sin, not just in & of itself, but the best part, being partakers of the Divine Nature, union with John 17:21,22,23; Jesus came to show us the image & likeness that God created man in, Matt 11:29; Gal 5:22-24; this is the true dignity & glory of our creation, & how he took dominion over the earth. Mark 6:48,49; Mark 4:39-41; Matt 17:27; etc; fulfilling Gen 1:26 & will ultimately fulfill it through His body, the church, here on earth as it is in heaven.

I have not stated; as you're implying the perfecting of the body, physically, it still remains under the penalty of sin consequences. Yet can be pure & holy, being animated by the new birth & renewing of the mind by His Spirit; John 3:3-6; 1Thess 5:23,24; "wholly", not of position only, but possession.

S Spencer on the last week.

Part 2

2 To make an end of sins (Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law). The verb in the Hebrew text translated as "put an end to" can mean "to seal up". The covering of our sins was accomplished on the cross at Calvary. When he said IT IS FINISHED, he provided us with the garments (wedding garments) to cover our sins. Psalm 32:1-2 Matthew 1:21 John 1:29 Romans 8:3 1 Corinthians 15:3 Hebrews 10:8-11 1 John 3:5 Revelation 16:15.

Is there still sin today? Yes. Will there still be sin and death after Jesus's second coming? Yes. Even during the 1000 years, there will be sin and death until all is made new Rev. 21:1-4 but through Jesus, they are covered and sealed, Rev. 16:15

3 To make reconciliation for iniquity (Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion, in the dark. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation.

4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. Everlasting, no end, righteousness, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will, fair and balanced. Isaiah 61:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Peter 2:24.

See Part 3

Amen, & I think these verses say it best.. John 3:17 For God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through Him might be saved. 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. 12:31 Now is the judgement of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 12:47 And if any man hear my words & believe not, I judge him not; For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world (it's a choice). 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye (you) might have peace, in the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. 17:14, I have given them the word, & the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 1 Corinthians 7:31 they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away. James 4:4 Ye adulterers & adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world, is the enemy of God. 1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in Him. 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes & the 'pride' of life, is NOT of the Father, but is of the world. 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God, overcome the world & this is the victory that overcome the world, even our faith. *next verse I have a Qs: does it mean that we don't have to believe in Christ walk on earth to be saved yet we must believe that He died for our sins to be saved? Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come*. which kinda goes with John 12:47 does it not? I've always heard & live by, "just because we are in the world doesn't mean we have to be of the world".! God bless 'Texsis'

Hi Richard,

1Jn 1:8-10 explains the operations of John 16:8; & the exercises of Hebrews 5:13;14; when He convicts of sin or of righteousness, He bring these two seeds of thought within into judgment. The still small Voice of conscience that reproves us of sinful thoughts, words or actions, this is Grace Titus 2:11 / Light John 1:9 Christ spiritual appearance within our hearts, Ephesians 5:13; to 1 John 3:8; if rejected, His word has no place within us, & we call Him a liar & why? John 3:19,20; Rom 1:18,19; rejecting Him, we suppress the Truth in unrighteousness. Therefore we don't John 1:12; but if we receive His convictions, we received the power that comes with the conviction to become the sons of God, for the 1Cor 12:7; More insight of the Spirit operations within conscience, Rom 2:15;

So there's a time when Holy Spirit comes to us as sinners, for Rom 3:23 & a time ( if we received His words ) repentance is granted & we're cleanse from all sin. 1 John 1:9; Titus 2:14; 2Cor 7:1; by the 1 Pet 1:23; = Light, becoming Matt 5:48; 1 Pet 1:15,16; for they that are 1Cor 6:17 & in Him 1 John 3:5; All by the working of Grace / Light / Spirit appearance within conscience.

In Love & Truth

Frankie J

David

"what I believe the Bible declares"

This is just the point David,I've been making all alone. Faith does not come by reading, studying, pastor preaching, Sunday school, etc: Its comes by Rom 10:17; this is the faith that Paul preached, speaking to you personally within your heart. These others maybe good execises to support & encourage if there inspired by Holy Spirit. But it cannot stand alone or take the place of having a personal relationship with Jesus, & this is what God has set His heart upon. John 14:21,23,26; John 17:21,22,23; Our faith is cannot be base on other people experinences, though ever be so helpful. In the work of regeneration we come to 1John 1:1-4 Here John is speaking of His Spirit appearance within our hearts, the Life/Light was manifested, Grace appearance. As we diligently hearken to His still small Voice we come to experiential knowledge of the Lord, 1John 5:20; "we have heard, seen with our eyes & have looked upon & our hands have handled of the Word of Life, spiritually, in this working out of our salvation. Hebrews 9:28; 2Cor 4:6,7; that the excellency to the Power to understand & receive the things of God, is of God & not of ourselves. John 3:27; We come to know His mind/will & good pleasure. Its what King David experience in Psalm 119:130; it what made him more wiser than his teacher Psalms 119:99; it was his Psalm 119:105; Psalm 123:2; Psalm 59:9; Psalm 69:3 & he commands his soul to wait upon the Lord Psalm 62:5; its call in Scripture the Key of David, Rev 3:7; He alone can Rev 5:2,5; Isa 22:22: He is the Treasure we have in these earthen vessel. Col 1:26,27,28; 1 Cor 2:12;

Blessing to you, you have a great desire & a zeal David.

in Love & Truth

Frankie J

Brother David0921:

I am going to let the word of God answer the questions you ask.

You ask: Did the apostle Paul commit sin after he was saved.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is BORN of GOD doeth not commit sin, for his (GOD'S) SEED remaineth in him: and he CANNOT sin because he is BORN of God.

You ask: in 100 years will I be alive in physical body? YES!

John 11:26 Whosoever liveth and believeth in me (the SEED) shall NEVER DIE, believest thou this?

Luke 20:36 Neither can they (the SEED) DIE ANYMORE (they died with Christ on the cross): for they are EQUAL unto the ANGELS (angles have Christ's resurrected body); and are the children (SONS, like Christ) of God, being the children (SEED) of the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it (Christ's SEED) a body as it has pleased him, to every SEED his (Christ's) OWN BODY.

You ask: do I every commit sin. NO!

Galatians 2:20 .....I am DEAD, nonetheless I LIVE, YET NOT I, but Christ LIVETH IN ME .... ALL creation DIED on the cross ....ONLY ONE SEED (Christ) arose ....

You ask: What does it mean to be born again.

To believe the WORD's Of GOD.

You can not be BORN again until you BELIEVE YOUR DEAD, only Christ is alive.

You ask: Where is Paul living and in what form:

Luke 20:36 ...EQUAL to the angles .... the IMAGE of CHRIST ...... Christ is the ANGEL of GOD ......

Isaiah 63:8 .... and the ANGEL of his (God's) presence SAVED them ..... Paul is living IN and BY the presence of Christ, in the body of Christ ...

Colossians 1:27 ..... this mystery ..... Christ in you .....

1 Corinthians 12:27 ... ye are the BODY of Christ ....

God bless YOU!

Reading Genesis 1:27, in my understanding what matters and prevails is the mystery of creation of man. But how? By the way, First of all, GOD is Spirit; GOD is the Word, self-executing. But how is the image of the Spirit of GOD? GOD alone -the Word is GOD- couldn't create man, He first needed to create an IMAGE of His Person - JESUS - , as is written in Hebrews 1:1-3 and 8.

By the way, man crreated by GOD is without sin, thus the conclusion about the corrupt generations the creator is another, an usurper, a lost one who grafted his evil seed into the one GOD had created - 1John 3:10-12. Terrible, very terrible.

Hi Giannis,

My understanding

The questions I posted and the scripture after them were in my understanding were answering the questions, sorry if that did not make sense or if they do not answer them for you.

Was Jesus baptized with the Spirit during His water baptism or before? It was not before it was after Jesus was water baptized and come up from the water He was then anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Luke 4:1 Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit led, meaning to lead, bring, carry so the Spirit led or carried Jesus to the wilderness. It may be similar to when Philip was whisk away, Acts 8:39

John 3:34 "for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him" Measure means limited so Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit with no limits like what we see in 1 Cor. 12 the diversities of gifts no one received them all, with Jesus there was no limit to the power of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:32-33 My understanding is this part of Peter's explanation of what people were seeing. Jesus made the promise that when He went back to the Father He would ask the Father to send the Holy Ghost/Spirit to them, Luke 24:49 John 14:26 Acts 1:4-8. They were seeing God's answer to Jesus's request to send the Holy Ghost/Spirit. I hope that makes sense.

The Father could not send the Holy Ghost/Spirit until Jesus was glorified John 7:39 and that was after He was resurrected, Jesus did not need the Holy Ghost/Spirit after He received His glorified body. When the Holy Ghost/Spirit left Jesus and went back to God in heaven if it was at Jesus's death or when, I do not know.

I hope this all made sense thank you for your reply.

God bless,

RLW

Hello Ronald.

You stated, "Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit? When Jesus was baptized what happened? None of the gospels clearly state that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit before His baptism Luke 2:40 is close but not affirmative. Why would Jesus need to be full of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Philippians 2:5-8. Was Jesus the Messiah the Anointed One? Luke 4:18 Acts 10:38"

But my query is: Was Jesus baptized with the Spirit during His water baptism (or before that)?

I don't have a clear view on that, because a couple of scriptures seem to say a different thing.

The first is Luke 4:1, "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,", also John 3:34, "For he (Jesus) whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.".

But then again in Acts 2:32-33, it says "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received (this in greek is in the present tense) of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."

The latter says that Jesus received the Spirit (the promise) after (or at) His resurrection and then started giving It to believers.

So does that mean that Jesus lost the Spirit while on the cross? But then again it says He received THE PROMISE of the Holly Ghost after His resurrection. So what was it that that He had before? Wasn't that the PROMISE? Maybe some other ministry of the Spirit? Maybe like the prophets of the Old Testament who had the Spirit ON them but not INSIDE them?

Or some other explanation exists? I Hope I haven't confused you. So what do you think?

Others are welvome to answer, too?

GBU

Hey S Spencer,

I do not consider myself part of a group other than the body of Christ, it is just me. We should be brothers and sisters without labels sharing our understanding of scripture and inspiring each other to study for the truth and I feel we have done that so far.

The Messiah/Christ, the son of God, the second man, our Lord who came from heaven, the last Adam sent by the Father to do the will of the Father. Matt. 11:25-27 Hebrew 2:9-14

Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit? When Jesus was baptized what happened? None of the gospels clearly state that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit before His baptism Luke 2:40 is close but not affirmative. Why would Jesus need to be full of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Philippians 2:5-8. Was Jesus the Messiah the Anointed One? Luke 4:18 Acts 10:38

The Holy Ghost/Spirit descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, Matt. 3:16-17 Luke 3:21-22 Mark 1:10 John 1:32. God put His Spirit upon him. Matt. 12:15-21 The Spirit remained on Him John 1:33

The Holy Ghost/Spirit led Jesus up into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Matt. 4:1 Mark 1:12. Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost and was led by the Spirit. Luke 4:1. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit Luke 4:14.

Jesus did miracles by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, Luke 5:17. He cast out devils by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, the Spirit of God Matt.12:28. Also John 14:10 (by the Holy Ghost/Spirit)

The scriptures were fulfilled Luke 4:18-21. The Holy Spirit was given to Jesus without measure John 3:34.

John's water baptism was as you said, God's anointing of the Holy Ghost/Spirit Matt.4:17 Mark 1:11 Luke 3:22.

I know you travel, so like Roy Rogers, happy trails to you, until we meet again. Showing my age, I will send more on the rest of part 1 and part 2.

God bless,

RLW

Mr. Landry,

In order to understand the verses you cite regarding the Nature of Salvation properly, we must understand that God created mankind with both a BODY and a SOUL. And that when we become BORN AGAIN, this happens in our SOUL. That is, God gives us a new Resurrected SOUL. And this SOUL is what cannot, in itself, sin (1 John 3:9) and will never die. Once God has performed this miracle in our life we have become a "new creature in Christ..." 2 Corinthians 5:17. But this Resurrected SOUL now resides in a BODY that has not yet undergone any change and still lusts after sin and is still subject to physical death. And although our personality is greatly changed in our attitude toward the Bible and hatred for sin in our life, we do still sin and will until God completes our salvation at the Last Day.

Our salvation will not be fully completed until the Last Day when we will receive our Resurrected Spiritual Body and we "shall be like Him" 1 John 3:2.

No scripture of itself interprets scripture, it takes other scriptures combined together to interpret truth.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God CANNOT commit sin, for his SEED (GOD) remaineth in him, and he CANNOT SIN because he is born of God.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit (God is Spirit) in YOU and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgements and DO them.

The kingdom of God only COMES to you if you believe what the word says.

Matthew 12:28 But if I (the Spirit of TRUTH) cast out devils (the spirit of deception) by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has COME unto you.

Was Paul saying something different; or, was he agreeing agreeing that is GOD IN YOU; HIS flesh and bone, that keeps you from sinning and not of yourself (your DEAD) only a NEW CREATION exist.

When you BELIEVE you are going to keep sinning in this life, then your going to keep sinning.

Matthew 8:13 .... and as thou hast BELIEVE, so be it done unto you ........

Do you BELIEVE you are a NEW CREATION, the flesh and bone OF CHRIST?

John 17:22 And the glory that thou has given me, I have GIVEN them, that they may be ONE as we are ONE.

If you don't believe that scripture, then the Kingdom of God has not YET COME to you.

God bless you

Thank you Frankie J for your comment. Yes I did state, in support of the other comments, that sin would always be evident in a person's life while we walk this Earth. Not that we should let sin take control & then take comfort because we are saved, but that because we are saved, have been given God's Holy Spirit, therefore we ought to walk in that newness of life, hating even the smell of sin. But does sin ever leave us? As long as we're in sinful flesh, its appeal will always come to us in all its forms. How we deal with it, will reveal how well we are abiding in Christ & walking in the Spirit.

Then to Consider 1 John 3:4-10: as you have maybe implied that in verses 4, 8, 9, the word 'commit' is the active verb in relation to the one sinning. However, verse 6 hasn't got the word 'commit' but it is certainly implied, given that this was what John was writing about as he wrote it in those other verses.

So, does anyone who 'abides in Christ not sin (v6)?' If we are to consider verses 4, 8, & 9, then 'commit' is the same Greek word (poiei) for 'practising' (in these verses, as a 'present, active, participle verb'). This means, that John is not writing about a Christian not ever committing any sins, but that his life is not marked by a life of continual sin. Why not? Because if the one born again (v9) has been truly regenerated, he is now "abiding in Christ" (v6); that new relationship with the Holy Spirit & His Power in his life simply cannot permit a lifestyle of sin. If a Christian finds it easy to sin & continue unabated in it, he would need to have a close examination of himself, & done so in all haste, for verse 8 marks him as belonging to the devil.

Adam,

What you are suggesting is a gospel of Grace plus works. And God warns against that very strongly in Galatians and Romans and in many other passages. The True Gospel is a gospel of Grace Alone. Once God has "saved", us our good works are the RESULT of having become Born Again. Our good works are NEVER THE CAUSE nor the REASON for our salvation.

2 Cor 5:17 is speaking about the very nature of salvation and that conclusion is supported throughout the Bible.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Both of these passages are absolutely speaking about being Born Again in our Soul existence which is every bit a part of us as our Body. And that is what happens to every True Believer when God applies His salvation to their life.

Hi Jema.

Thanks for replying.

You said your faith is in Christ's sacrifice for your sin's. and that's where it should be.

Abram believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; Romans 4:20.

In Genesis 15:6-18 God made an unconditional promise to Abraham and performed it alone.

The ritual that constitutes the covenant where they cut these animals in half and walk between them together and if one renege on the covenant what happened to the animals would happen to that person.

God cannot lie so he was protecting Abraham when he entered the covenant alone.

Issac was Abraham's heir and Abraham knew that God keeps his promises and he knew that God would have to raise him from the dead to keep his promises.

God is Love but he is also a righteous judge. There is no where in scripture it says God saves us by his love. It says God so loved the world He provided us a savior and that savior was his Son. John 3:16.

The bible teaches us the wages of sin is death and the gift of God through Christ is eternal life. Romans 6:20-23.

The lost sinner's heart is energized by the ( Everlasting evil Spirit of this unrepentant world that is being held back by restraint of the Holyspirit.

I believe in hell and those who go there will be tormented.

Weeping and gnashing of teeth. Unquenchable fire.

There would have to be an awareness of pain and agony to Weep and Nash teeth.

And "Unquenchable fire" is unnecessary if it's unquenchable for no one.

Matthew 22:13

Psalm 112:10.

The bible describes hell as a place of torment.

You have to be awake to be tormented.

God bless.

Salvation (part 2)

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified BY Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 2:1-4 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9 He who is born of God doeth not commit sin; for his SEED remaineth in him: and he CANNOT SIN, because he is BORN of GOD

Genuine Christ vs Imaginary

Confrontation of sin

Verses on repentance are rife in the scriptures. Taking a proactive approach after a confession of faith toward living a life of holiness separates the real from the pretenders; whether in our own lives or confronting the sin of others.

Such a matter as suing one another ( 1 Corinthians 6) illustrates how making proper judgments within the Body of Christ is to occur; so that Matthew 7:1 is taken into proper context. Naturally; we are to straighten out our walk to avoid hypocrisy and to see clearly; as Jesus indicated to take the speck out of a brother's eye. Psalm 139:24 indicates a prayer to see any "offensive way" in us. As my earlier post indicates; we can seek to conform our outer behaviors so that we don't cuss; drink; smoke or dance for example but we can still foster pride or greed or something else. This is the methodology which fails when trying to reform people without the Lord transforming the heart; merely substituting one sin for another. Or; as some have said we need a new "wanter". None of these actions to curtail behaviors will make us love God any more without Him ruling and reigning in our lives.

This desire not to shake the apple cart as it were stops many from confronting sins of others; which is a necessary tool to bring forth repentance when evangelizing as well as confronting things within the church. The sin NATURE; of course is the focus which needs to be stressed on the streets but we also see individuals with sinful lifestyles that must be repented of. That principle is for nonbelievers and those who confess Christ as well in light of 1 John 3:8-10. 1 Timothy 5:20 shows how indeed these confrontations are necessary in the church; and a responsibility of those in authority; such as Timothy was after Paul instructed him and trained him. 1 Timothy 5:24 shows how certain sins are more obvious than others; but all will be judged.

( Galatians 5:17; 1 Cor. 6:9-10)

Part 1

Hi,

after the fall of Adam the father and eve the mother of all human beings which happened at the Garden of Eden in the beginning. Sin entered into the world and separated us from our God who made the heavens and the earth.

it is written in Romans 5;12 -14

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

-So, this sin that entered separated us from God who is Holy as it is written in the book of Isaiah 59:2

It's your sins that have cut you off from God. Because of your sins, he has turned away and will not listen anymore.

Now man was created to fellowship with God but due to the sins committed at the garden of Eden which cause separation there was nothing that man could do to get Righthouse with God. But the mercy of God is great and endures forever.

as it is written in Psalm 107:1

1.Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.

and in John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved

Please read Part 2.

Amen.

True Christ vs Imaginary

The bulk of this discussion is focused on men who profess to believe as a Christian and who are seeking faith as a means to an end. This; in my opinion is far more insidious; and leads to greater judgment than the average pagan who overtly worship false gods. We have discussed Lot's wife; and of course in New Testament times we have warnings such as Hebrews 10:29 to seriously consider as well as the previous verse. We have more than the law now; we have the Bible; the written testimony of God with His redemptive plan for us.

Part of the problem; as I have pointed out a number of times is the concept of "decisional regeneration". We can follow the admonition of Romans 10:9 and attest to the veracity of John 3:16 and a few other basic verses on salvation for a number of reasons; but apart from a transformation through the Holy Spirit and God drawing a person toward repentance we are NOT saved. This concept is found in 5 scriptures as either granting or leading someone to repenetance (see 2 Tim. 2:25; Romans 2:4). Two types of sorrow are mentioned in 2 Corinthians 7:10; godly and worldly sorrow. The end result is either spiritual death or life. (compare Peter to Judas Iscariot after Gethsemene; and until His crucifixion for examples of these two types of sorrow). I would go farther though; some of us haven't even considered the consequences of our sins and how it would affect us at the end of this life; and Judgment Day. Fear of hell may not save someone without an appreciation for the Holiness of God and how we have offended our Creator; which comes in a large part after we are saved (experientially slow for some; immediate for others). But true repentance gives us some realization of our state apart from Christ along with a new heart ( Ezekiel 11:19-20).

I will say that in today's world; it is going to get very costly to even confess Christ; assuming; of course it is real church that we are declaring allegiance to

Brother David921

David DID NOT go to heaven when he physically died.

Acts 2:34 David IS NOT ASCENDED into the heavens .....

Acts 2:29 Men and Brethren, let me speak to you freely, the patriarch is DEAD and buried ....

John 3:13 No man hath ascended into heaven, but he which came down from heaven and is now in heaven.

ALL MEN ARE DEAD

ONLY Christ arose; we are joint HEIRS, you don't exist OTHER than being the BODY CHRIST DWELLS IN.

A NEW CREATION, as the FATHER and SON are ONE, you are now ONE IN THEM.

This is the GOSPEL, the KINGDOM of GOD, Christ in you, sinful flesh DIED on the cross, ONLY Christ arose, a New creation arose.

1 Timothy 6:16 Christ ONLY has IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light .... in the presence of God ......

This mortal shall put on IMMORTALITY ....

Ephesians 4:4 ....ONE body .... ONE spirit ......

Ephesians 4:6 .... ONE GOD .... Father of ALL ... above ALL ... through ALL ...in you ALL ...

ONE .... GOD ..... ALL in ALL ......

God bless you as he bring you to TRUTH.

The True Gospel (part 1)

The True Gospel is circumscribed by the Bible alone and in its entirety and is a Gospel of Grace Alone.

We must start with the understanding that mankind by nature since Adam's sin is SPIRITUALLY DEAD, and subject to the Wrath of God and the Judgment of God because of our sins. This is our condition, apart from salvation, both in body and soul. And both our body and soul are subject to eternal death and destruction along with this sin-cursed earth.

Furthermore, we are in bondage to sin and Satan to whom God has given the authority to rule over this world, all of course under the ultimate authority of God Himself.

But despite this terrible situation, by God's Mercy and to demonstrate His Glory, God, before the foundation of this world, chose a people for Himself to save and to be with Him eternally in New Heavens and a New Earth. These are the Elect of God. We don't know how God made that choice but we know it was not based upon any worthiness in any one of us.

To accomplish this, the penalty required by the Law of God, for every dirty rotten sin of every one of His Elect was full paid by God Himself in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is, God in the person of Christ actually DIED and was then RESURRECTED to life again. Our minds cannot fully grasp this but we know it is a fact because God declares it in the Bible.

Then at some point in their life God applies that salvation to each and every one of His Elect in raising their Spiritually Dead soul to Spiritual Life by giving them a brand new Resurrected Soul which, in itself, cannot sin. 1 John 3:9. This is why when a believers body dies he goes to be with Christ in heaven in his soul existence.

Then at the Last Day God completes their salvation by giving them their Resurrected Spiritual Body which now, in a complete personality, will live and reign with Christ in New Heavens and New Earth eternally. 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15

Cont in part 2

True, David0921, 'stagnation' would be too subtle a word to more fully describe how the Church at large treats God's Word & deals with sin & rebuke of erring ones. Unfortunately, from my limited experience, it seems that the larger the Church (congregation), the weaker they are in some of these areas we've referred to. The smaller, & probably the more exclusive (sectarian) of them, keep a much more rigid control on behavior & adherence to the Word. Yet, saying that, often their teachings also tend to be a little off-track. A few however, I believe, have found the right balance.

Now, I have a query on what you had earlier written (& now), in discussion with Jema a few days ago: "So when we look at the nature of God's Judgment program very carefully, we find that the Final Punishment is annihilation, that is destruction". And I quote this as you also shared here, "When was the last time you heard a sermon that focused on the Judgment and Wrath of God for sin?" Obviously, I think I have misunderstood you, where it appears that you believe that the final state of man is, either he's enjoying eternal life with the Lord, or a cessation of all existence (annihilation, as you put it). And then the "Wrath of God for sin" as you now stated. Without making any further assumptions, maybe you could clarify your belief, as in my mind I'm unable to reconcile the two statements.

I believe that Matthew 10:28 was quoted as a reference to the complete destruction of soul & body, to which the Greek word does support; as it does to John 3:16 ("perish"), Romans 2:12, 1 Corinthians 8:11, 2 Peter 3:9, and many others. But reference wasn't made to Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:8,9; Matthew 25:46; Jude 1:7; Revelation 20:10,14,15; & others. In the light of these other Scriptures as well as the essence of the Gospel message which requires an eternal suffering, or else we don't have any Good News of salvation to give, how should we understand your statements? Blessings.