Discuss John 3 Page 9

The anti-christ will not be 'revealed' to us till AFTER believers in Christ are 'caught up/taken out' of this world along w/the dead in Christ who will be raised first joining Him in the clouds 1Thes 4:17.

The rapture is an English word made up from the "Latin biblical word rapio". If it happens in our time you'll know 2 ways..1st cuz 1/3 of the world suddenly disappears just like in Kirk Cameron's movies Left Behind (not the other woke version).

Then, AFTER that (the 2nd proof) the anti-christ makes it mandatory EVERYONE get the 'mark of the beast' (bible says in several verses from chapter 13 - chapter 20, IN the right hand or IN forehead, Not on) to be able to buy or sell to survive. So not a tattoo, pin, watch or sharpy pen.

Best thing to do is be rapture ready. Search His word not believing others yet, Believe & Receive Christ shed His blood for you "that who ever believes in Him will not perish yet have everlasting life" John 3:16-21. If you wait, the bible also says what happens to anyone Left Behind. Tho 1 final chance to Repent is given YET ONLY GOD knows this day & time..in the blink of an eye.! He knows your heart better then you. Not a chance I'm willing to take cuz our flesh is weak & in the blink of an eye is faster then you'll be able to SAY 'Jesus' much less time to repent.

Protect ppl NOW by teaching Gods word sheilding them w/His full suit of armor Eph 6:10-18. God will bring them to their knees in His time for His glory. Any child under the age of accountability (i.e. being able to KNOW the difference, not merely being told to choose) is going so no need to fret over their precious souls simply love them as we are to love God w/All our being. For EVERY knee will bow Phillipians 2:10. I choose to now so my life on earth is more peaceful, no matter the pain. God bless & be with you, Texsis.

Hi Giannis

1John 2:1 but then he moves on: 1John 3:9

You say, because we have this sin nature, Not if we're born again, 2Cor 5:17, His Spirit of Grace has brought us through the regeneration & renewing of the Holy Spirit unto the new creature, created in Ephesians 4:24 Col 3:10. By His Spirit of Grace, the Cross, the old nature has been deny, mortify & finally crucify Rom 6:6,7 & We have become partakers 2Pet 1:3,4

Its very true, as you stated we, in & of ourselves we cannot stop sinning, its a hopeless situation. But with God all things are possible! Jeremiah 32:27

Jesus stated, John 7:17,18 Meaning; if one is practicing in their lives the doctrines of faith they believe & its not having the results the Word of God clearly states, then their doctrine & faith is not of God & their speaking of themselves.Their faith is not Hebrews 12:2 Matt 7:14

Friend anyone who would not be prejudice, can perceive that throughtout the Scriptures God is calling His people to be holy.

He kick Lucifier out of heaven when he sinned, He put Adam & Eve out of paradise when they sinned, He kick the nation of Israel out of the promise land when they continue sinning. Do you really believe He's going to allow anyone into His holy Kingdom that's a sinner? Especially now that He has sent His Son, if He was going to allow sin into heaven, Jesus could have avoided that horrible humiliation & vicious suffering at the hands of ungodly men.

No, my friend, sinners will not enter the kingdom of God, it not happenning,

Last par; HEAVY LOAD ON THEIR SHOULDERS, it an evident token that they have not come to the True Jesus Matt 11:28 because He's the John 1:29

I kindly request that you read No Cross No Crown William Penn, Chap 1-8 & serious consider what discover in these pages.

freely on the net, No Cross No Crown project gutenberg

in love & truth

A day in the life of Christ...spiritual giftings

We; being the Body of Christ only have individual functions-each part being essential in the ministry of the Holy Spirit coming from Christ in the heavenly places. Christ; of course ( John 3:34-35) had the Spirit without limit. As a member of the Godhead He also wouldn't have had to rely on anything from the Spirit in His own Divinity; but He did when on earth He was strengthened by the Spirit as well as angels in time of greatest struggle (such as after the 40 day fast and Satan's interrogation and in Gethsemene).

When Jesus was stated to know what people were thinking; it seems never to be good. It was a general statement to the Pharisees; where large chunks of scripture were dedicated to rebuke for hypocrisy along with the section for the same treatment for the lawyers of the time. Luke 7:36-50 is a fascinating section where the thoughts of the Pharisee were revealed to Christ; but He chose instead to talk to Peter about how such a "sinner" could be justified and put everyone to shame. The "blasphemy" of Him forgiving her sins trumped all earlier issues no doubt at the end of this section.

The "word of knowledge" which seems to be most apparent is the statement to Peter about denying Him. Again; that fit into prophecy as did the running away of everyone in Mark 14:50. Also; the statement of being betrayed was prophetically in scripture along with the whole section of Isaiah 53 and everything else predicted to happen to Him in the crucifixion and later raising from the dead. I can't think of anything offhand that isn't in the Old Testament that Christ revealed; short of the further implications of the law in what was to be the new covenant of grace. The scriptures were further revealed from the concealed passages of hidden meanings in the Old Testament; and will be further still at the Second Coming. What is new is statements of what would happen specifically with Peter in the Book of Acts.

Chris,

The thread Our Addiction to Sin, is becoming too long. I'm responding to your question in a new thread here so we can continue on with the Sin subject.

You state: I was given to understand that 1 John 3:6,9 showed that abiding in Christ meant that NO sin would be committed, not "a lifetime of continual sin".

Yes, I agree with the scripture: If we believe it and strive to get there, we will eventually get to that perfection where we know Him perfectly and we abide in him perfectly. If we say we can't, then we will not even try to get started, and guarantee our failure!

You state: Therefore, I think that your quote, "It is not just about "one sin" - It's about a lifetime of continual sin", may be what's causing us confusion.

God knows that it will take us time to change and bring us into him, to make this happen 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 You and others seem to want to ignore/disregard/dismiss these verses by any means. God gave us his Son to provide us the means to receive forgiveness of sin. He gave us His Holy Spirit to strengthen and teach us - to make the impossible possible! So to reiterate, it's not about one sin, or a few sins, he has promised he would forgive us if we are sincere and we are truly repenting.

By repenting it means we promise that we will get the sin out of our life. If we say we can't get the sin out of our life we will continue to sin - that my friend is not repenting. That's what I mean when I say it's not about one sin - it's about continual sinning without making the serious effort to stop. A half hearted effort will not get us there. It becomes a never ending sin/forgiveness/repeat/sin/forgiveness/repeat on and on throughout our lives.

Cont. to page 2

Chris Page 2

So then, we never achieve the perfection with God that he desires/requires from us! If we accept that we can't stop sinning -We are saying we will spend some time with God, and spend some time with Satan. God tells us we can't serve both! We need to eventually get sin out of our life so we are serving God only!

You state: "I deal with sin as it surfaces but I won't live in a false spiritual bubble " Chris If we are sinning we are living in Satan's bubble! What can be worse than that? If, we can break free from sin, we can really say we are free!

You state: "Yes, we must strive to deal with sin & be holy but to believe that sin will never rear its ugly head, is beyond the whole biblical message." Sin will not rear its ugly head IF we don't give into the temptation! It's the temptation that we must overcome. We must work on overcoming temptation, as sin will not occur if we don't succumb to it. 1 John 3:8

GBU

With reference to Isaiah 45:7 and your concerns regarding:

1. "I form the light, and create darkness"

2. "I make peace, and create evil" - my response is this.

The Bible reveals many 'opposites' (or contrasts) that exist in scripture, such as:

- Being HOLY or UNHOLY ( 1 Peter 1:16; Heb 12:14)

- Being SAVED or UNSAVED (or 'lost' - Romans 10:9-10; Matt 18:11)

- Walking in the SPIRIT or walking in the FLESH ( Rom 8:1; 2 Peter 2:10)

It is in this context that God created DARKNESS so that the LIGHT that He dwells in ( 1 Tim 6:15-1) has some comparison. It is the same principle regarding "peace" (a good life and the pursuit of happiness) and "evil" (meaning war, death and destruction) that God creates these things.

However, on a spiritual basis, LIGHT represents absolute TRUTH, whereas DARKNESS represents lies, deception, misinformation, etc.

"And this is the condemnation, that LIGHT [via the words of Christ and the Apostles] is come into the world, and [religious-based] men LOVED DARKNESS rather than LIGHT [or Bible-based truth], because their deeds [of corrupting God's word - 2 Cor 2:17] were EVIL." ( John 3:19).

As for God creating "EVIL" the same principle applies:

- Being GOOD or being EVIL ( Matt 19:17; John 3:20)

- Doing GOOD or doing EVIL ( Matt 5:44; 1 Peter 3:12)

The principles in Isa 45:7 therefore regulate what people attract on Earth from God according to this statement:

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth [by his actions - meaning, 'good' or 'evil' in this life], that shall he also reap [in the next life]. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh [or lusts in this life] shall of the flesh reap corruption [in Hell throughout eternity]; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING [with God - IF all the conditions associated with Salvation are met]." ( Galatians 6:6-8)

I hope this answers your questions, One eighty.

Hi Giannis,

I started this post entitled: Our Addiction to Sin - for a reason. I was hoping I would hear from others here that despise sin, as much as Christ/God does, up to this point - I found only one.

Everyone else states the current Christain status quo, we can never stop sinning. So it doesn't matter That God tells us we can't sin and walk with Him, 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 Jesus tells us we must stop sinning, dies on the Cross so that we can be forgiven - if we simply ask Him, but the catch is - we also need to repent. Christains really like the forgiveness part of the equation, but what we convienatly forget is the repent part, as evidenced by the stubbron resistance to making a life commitment to stop sinning. How would we like to hear Christ tell us He can't give us eternal life. We are adamant that God should keep his commitment to us, but we do not feel we have to follow his Laws, and Commands! We want to pick and choose which of God's laws we can conviently accomodate into our worldy lives, and find excuses/doctrine to ignore/dispose of the rest. How convenient for us, a win-win for us. Really?

Giannis, in my last post to you, you asked, and I explained 1 John 1-10 to you, and now you are bringing up more scripture and parables to try and justify your belief that Christians can sin and walk with God at the same time - when God and Jesus tell us throughout the scripture that we need to stop sinning. Jesus tells us point blank to stop sinning or something worse will happen to us. If we think we are walking with Christ and bad things are happening to us shouldn't we want sit up - and take notice of this verse. John 8:11

I'll tell you the same thing that Jesus told the Pharisees Mark 11:29 answer my question here, and then I will answer your additional questions.

Who would want to convince Christian's that they can continue to sin - and still walk with God?

Bro. Dan. As I stated, "but if we don't (attain sinlessness) in our lifetime, then we not only never had Christ abiding in us...simply because we have committed even that one sin"; & you wrote, "It is not just about "one sin". It's about a lifetime of continual sin"; I was given to understand that 1 John 3:6,9 showed that abiding in Christ meant that NO sin would be committed, not "a lifetime of continual sin".

Whereas I referred to the Greek & Giannis also gave his take on it, refuting the belief that if we are truly His then no sin would be found in us (for that is what the Scripture states, "doth NOT commit sin". i.e. an impossibility to sin since Christ is in us & we in Him). Not "a habitual repeating of sin" here, for no sincere true believer would ever find delight in such a state, but committing just ONE sin - this is what we're dealing with here as pertaining to the Scriptures.

Then you referred to 1 John 1:9, which is a verse I fully accept because we still sin, yet finding forgiveness, with a determination to put that sin(s) aside. But that verse applies to those overtaken by a sin - it wouldn't apply to any who have no sin, as 1 John 3:6,9 apparently implies. Therefore, I think that your quote, "It is not just about "one sin" - It's about a lifetime of continual sin", may be what's causing us confusion. Are you thinking of someone speaking lies, committing adultery, etc. continuously without repentance or restraint? Or, are you including those three examples I shared when the Spirit alerts one that sin is committed when an isolated persistent thought or feeling arises, yet with no evidence of an outward expression or tantrum? I deal with sin as it surfaces but I won't live in a false spiritual bubble trying to believe that I will never fall into some sin & that sinless perfection is a present experience. Yes, we must strive to deal with sin & be holy but to believe that sin will never rear its ugly head, is beyond the whole biblical message. Blessings.

Hi Frankie,

Thanks for your input, on this topic: Are We Addicted to Sin.

I sincerely appreciate your presentation of pertinent scripture regarding sin and our ongoing obedience to God, and your well reasoned logic directed at some of issues required of us to work toward achieving a sin free life in God at some point. I will admit, it is hard, but not impossible! Matt 17:20 It is hard in the sense that in order to do so - we can't continue to live in our current worldly lifestyle, and we can't continue to to tell ourselves and others Satan's lie: that we can't stop sinning. If we are to pick up our Cross and follow Christ it will certainly require worldly lifestyle changes, and a positive change in our thinking, and total acceptance of the scriptures like 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9, so we can't just remain in denial and just dismiss these scriptures!

Also, thanks for sharing your personal testimony and life experience's leading you to ministry school, and your ongoing and continuing struggle for the truth, as it applies to God, Faith and sin. I believe you also understand our need to be obedient first, and I believe we can agree "it requires our total obedience to know God and the Holy Spirit" and in so doing, we learn to obey His words, please Him and really know Him. Rom 12:2 Philippians 2:12-16

Thanks for the book reference, No Cross-No Crown. I will certainly look forward to reviewing it.

GBU

Hi Chris,

You state: Maybe "we can get to a state of sinlessness" as you say,

It is not as I say, it is Jesus in Matt 17:20 and John in 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 and ultimately God, as the bible and all scripture if of God.

I'm accepting what God is telling us in these verses. These verses are tough Love, aren't meant to keep the sinful status quo, they are meant to wake us up! God does not want us to live the rest of our lives in sin.

You state: but if we don't in our lifetime, then we not only never had Christ abiding in us, but we actually belong to the devil, simply because we have committed even that one sin,

It is not just about "one sin". It's about a lifetime of continual sin. You must see this; if we continue to tell each other and believe we can never stop sinning, we will in fact lead a lifetime in sin.

If we commit one sin or multiple sins - at the time we commit that sin - we are not abiding in God. Anytime we are sinning we are Not abiding in God - we are abiding in Satan. If we repent and ask for forgiveness God will forgive us. But we must be sincere and stop the habitual repeating of sin.

You state: never finding freedom from it or any other sin. That would be an awful state to live in, if those verses are read & interpreted as given

Yes, I agree with you, that it is an awful state to live in sin, and these verses interpreted as given by God: are exactly meant to make us feel awful, hopefully to motivate us to really make changes, and work with Him and His Holy Spirit to rid ourselves of all sin. Is it better that we feel awful here on earth, if it promotes us to make the changes to accommodate Gods commands and receive His blessings ultimately winning the prize, and receiving eternal life in His Kingdom. Matt 18:22 Mark 9:43

In summary: God tells us not to sin - throughout the bible. I do not see one place - that God tells us sin is acceptable to Him. If you do, please present the scripture.

GBU

You

Page 2. Bro. Dan.

Maybe some actual recent personal examples are reluctantly called for: I'm out shopping & someone barges past me in a hurry, knocking me to the side; or, the next day, the solar system technician fails to keep to his appointment that I've been waiting all day for; then the third day, a person walking her dog fails to control it & the dog manages to make contact on my leg with its teeth. Three different days, three different sins as I failed to take adequate control of my internal responses: not having a total peace, calmness & understanding in those situations if Christ by His Spirit was truly abiding in me. I'm sorry to write in such a manner, but I'm earnestly trying to find out if no-one else finds these 'daily' sins popping up in their lives or is it just me, or maybe, others don't regard such matters as sins. If 1 John 3:6 is as you read it, I am lost & without hope. I'm earnestly working on my internal feelings in such situations as I gave, but till then, sin has its control over me, & should I die shortly, I'm doomed. So then, what is sin? If abiding by the Decalogue determines it, then I think I'm a sinless specimen, but if under the working of the Spirit, I fall short & always will while sin appeals to the flesh.

Maybe "we can get to a state of sinlessness" as you say, but if we don't in our lifetime, then we not only never had Christ abiding in us, but we actually belong to the devil, simply because we have committed even that one sin, never finding freedom from it or any other sin. That would be an awful state to live in, if those verses are read & interpreted as given. GBU.

Page 1.

I do agree Bro. Dan of the great work & expertise applied to the KJV, to make it the best we can have in our hands. Yet, without laboring this point of how the translators understood the Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek languages & then used English words to reflect their understanding, the fact is that the Truth lies in those languages & not wholly in translation work. There are always going to be differences in how words are used & even understood in past centuries, and so it is with 1 John 3:6. We read it as given as we are taught to read; so we would correctly say, that since "sinneth not" means 'does no sin', therefore, those who claim to abide in Christ, simply do not sin. And I've already shared what I understand is the Greek rendering of that verse.

But assuming that the verse is to be understood as given: that the one abiding in Christ does not sin (not even one); if he does sin, it proves he doesn't know Christ at all. Sorry, I have transliterated the verse to emphasize your point. Based on this, I'm not at all referring to one living a life of sin, or even slipping up & momentarily sin overtaking him; I'm referring to even one sin that proves that we really don't know Him & are hypocrites. I read your last sentence, "are we really pursuing God, or are we performing mouth service, while pursuing worldly things and Sin". This sounds like you're referring to a life that's in pursuit of & enjoying things sin-related. I don't speak of such a practise, but of just one sin that prevents us from abiding in Christ & He in us. Onto Page 2.

Hi Giannis,

Thanks for your response regarding the your comparison of the scripture 1 John 1:8-9 in contrast to 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9

I see no contradiction in 1 John 1:8-9 as you state. Why? John is talking to unbelievers/unsaved. Please read from the beginning 1 John 1:1-10 in the entirety. John is talking to unsaved unbelievers currently walking in darkness. He is inviting them to join him and other Christians to walk with God. A key verse:

1 John 1:3

"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

John states: That which we (Believers) have seen and heard declare we unto you (unbelievers) That ye (unbelievers) also may have fellowship with us (believers) and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

In 1 John he is telling those unbelievers walking in darkness 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." John was an unbeliever prior to being saved so he is telling them that we were all sinners and if we don't admit it - then the truth is not in us.

Once we accept Christ and we are saved we are supposed to walking with God and striving to follow Christ and this includes overcoming sin. Hence, the scripture 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 targeted at those who are Christians who are to be following God's commands. We can't follow God and the devil simultaneously, and this is what God is telling us. It's one or the other!

GBU

Hi Chris,

It is a widely held established view that the Bible is "The word of God" in particular considerable effort was put into the KJV Bible by highly capable language experts in Greek/Hebrew/English to interpret and transcribe God's words correctly. I believe most would agree that this is true.

1 John 3:6 This verse is from God's mouth. It's meaning is clear. It only becomes unclear if we have a reason to dilute it, minimize it, or ignore it to fit a particular doctrine.

The verse is literal, and again very clear "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"

God tells us we can't abide with Him, and sin at the same time. At the time we sin we begin to serve the devil. As long as we continue sinning we are serving Satan. God gives us the will to make the choice to serve him by refraining from sin, and He tells us there is a consequence. What is that consequence? Separation from God during the time(s) we sin, if continual sin - eventually death, and hell, as opposed to eternal life with him.

If we are sinning more than staying true to God, we are separated from Him more than we are with Him. God hopes, and we as Christians hope that we can sin less, and remain with God more and more, as our faith and strength to refrain from sin improves. Hopefully, we can get to a state of sinlessness, this would then conform with Jesus telling us that if we had stronger faith - nothing is impossible for us! Matt 17:20

Does this take effort on our part, yes, and it is God's/Jesus command that we do. John 5:14 John 5:18

If we as Christians continue to tell each other "we can never stop sinning" we are telling God/Jesus that we don't believe that we can even with the Cross/Holy Spirit -if so we should STOP and rethink our path. I believe this weakness with sin relates directly back to our lack of faith that Jesus emphasized in his Gospel.

Are we really pursuing God, or are we performing mouth service, while pursuing worldly things and Sin.

GBU

Hello Bro dan

1 John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Also 1 John 3:6, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

BUT the above verses seem to be in contadiction to what is written earlier on, ie 1 John 1:8-9, "8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

So what is wrong? The former verses say that we dont (and can't) commit sin BUT the latter says that if we say we don't commit sins we are liars.

This is one of the few points in the Bible that the grk makes the difference. The grk doesn't say that we don't commit sin but we don't keep doing sins (in grk "amartano"), i.e. we don't live a sinful life, we don't stay in sinning. It is not a present continuous like we are continuously doing something but it shows that something is done regularly in the present without any stop. Since there is nothing respective in English, the nearest we can come to is the simple present that the KJV iuses. But it gives a different understanding.

GBU

2 of 2

What they declared in their writing awaken the Witness within me, bearing witness to the truth of their writing with the proof, in their exercises of the Truth that God was please to bring them through for His eternal glory.

One of God's minister among them was William Penn, founder of Pennsylvania; He wrote a book, No Cross, No Crown, the first 8 chap gave me valuable spiritual insight in what it means to pick up the Cross, & following Jesus. I've started exercising this knowledge by practicing it in everyday ordinary life circumstances & found experientially that it is Truth, the teaching are witness by the Scriptures & sound reasoning. I learned that once light/knowledge is reveal, its not possessed, but is an invitation, to be exercised & possess, mental consent to Truth is not possession, but it must be an operational faith in the Word, Abraham the father of faith clear reveals this. this is engraftment, James 1:21-24 & becomes our inheritance, this is increasing our talent, His Spirit within us.

I have come to a state where I rarely read there writings, & dare not pick up a concordance, which in this transition from one state to present, God literally rebuke me for during so. He is my Teacher etc; an increasing becoming my all in all, I'm free from my sins that so easily captivated me to Satan will & now on my way to receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that will thoroughly purge the threshing floor of my heart, discarding what chaff is remaining & to be gather to the Gardner, by abiding in the Vine. For I have learned from years of personal experience that without Him I can do nothing. Meaning being led by His precious Spirit, which is the foundation of their teaching. John 3:27

Seek Him who is within you, No Cross No Crown is a revelation on this very important endeavor in our freedom from sin & to truly know God, the way He desires to be known.

ps; its important to remember in these conversations, that 2 Cor 10:3-5 Ephesians 6:12

Yes, I believe that too Ashley. We will be given new bodies. On this matter, I find that 1 Corinthians chapter 15 is very helpful. To help you, please take particular note of these verses: vv12-14 (since Christ rose from the grave, so will we); vv42,53 (we died in corrupt bodies, we will be raised in bodies not given to corruption); v49 (our present image/being conforms to life on Earth, but in the resurrection, our being will conform to life without sin, decay or death).

So yes, those who die in the Lord will receive new bodies (bodies transformed from our original bodies on Earth, or from what was left of it) & will be even like our Lord Jesus exists (i.e. Jesus Who died as a Man, resurrected in His Body & translated into Heaven to be at His Father's right Hand). 1 John 3:2 gives us a little glimpse of this: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." Here, the Apostle John writes to God's children; that the change that will occur to us & in us will be so dramatic, that we cannot imagine it. But one thing we know, that when He comes for us in the resurrection & rapture, we will be changed & we will become as He is: pure from all the limitations & corruption of this earthly body, given a resurrection body as Jesus has, & fully outfitted for eternal life in holiness & with our Lord. How this transformation translates into a Heavenly life or life on Earth with Jesus in rulership, has been debated. The Lord knows - we must nevertheless be ready & looking for His Coming.

1 of 3

Isa 53 The appearances of the Just One.

Isa 59:16,17 Isa 63:5 fulfilled John 1:14 John 3:17

53 explains Christ patience's, trials, tribulations & suffering of His life in the great work of man redemption. In His humiliations, being despises, rejected, His not be esteem for who He really was John 1:11 & the world by Whom they were created. The sorrows & griefs He bare on our behalf, His Spirit being wounded for our transgression, & bruised for our iniquities, having the chastisement of our peace laid upon Him.

God, Ephesians 2:4 has left nothing undone in accomplishing this for us, a complete deliverance from sin; spirit, soul & body of the sons & daughters of men from Satan kingdom. Throughout His life & His passion ( the final day of His life) is describe fully here & we see it displayed throughout His life in His humanity, Hebrews 2:17,18

Isa 53:10 shows the delight of the Father's heart, as Christ fulfills every requirement of the Law, satisfying the Court in heaven Daniel 7:9-10 Daniel 7:13,14 being given a Kingdom, with Matt 28:18 literally untying the Father's hands so He could reach out to His beloved creatures in the Grace that He has now provided for us through His Son, 2 Cor 5:18-21

Isa 53:11,12 Grace appearance provides the knowledge that shall justify many, Rom 3:24 Titus 2:11,12 Luke 4:22

Chris,

I presented you with the verse below and you state: "There is no suggestion in this verse that the one in Christ no longer sins."

You seem to be grasping for ways to explain away the TRUE MEANING of this very simple verse!

1 John 3:6

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

It is very clear: "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"

I'm a simple minded man, and this verse is very clear to me, that God is telling us if we are abiding in Him/God - we will not be committing sin!

God tells us it is impossible to abide in Him - and sin at the same time. If we are sinning we are Not abiding in HIM - we are abiding in Satan.

Also, continuing

1 John 3:7-9

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

"he cannot sin, because he is born of God"

Again Chris, these verses are a "wake up call" to all Christains, including myself, that we can't keep sinning - and serve God at the same time. It's one or the other.

GBU

No, it isn't. When someone shares God's truth it honors God. Like these verses:

Mark 16:16

Acts 2:38

Matthew 28:19

John 3:5

Ephesians 4:5

It already says what it says and means what it means, whether someone likes it or not. You can't pick and choose which scriptures you like or dislike like a buffet-style Christianity. I don't think Jesus would approve of that. Water baptism sure was important to Jesus, so much so He was baptized Himself as an example. Wow, God was water baptized so there's no doubt whatsoever what someone needs to do to follow Jesus. Seems like a pretty big crystal clear sign, but people will still find excuses and rationalizations to disobey as they always do.

2 of 3

Jesus Christ. The Word of Faith, believing that it was indeed Christ fulfilling His Father command to shine within our heart/conscience. The still small Voice that reproof us of evil thoughts, words or deeds. This is the true Light, John 1:9; Grace is the law of Rom 8:2; he obey it from Rom 6:17,18; it make us free Rom 6:22; Holy writ says, Rom 6:14,15; the word used is shall, not should, it's a positive assertion, a confident & forceful statement of fact. Holy Spirit states it twice here, along with other strong assertions to the same end. Rom 6:1,2; Rom 6:6,7; Rom 6:11-13;

You say "we have been join to Christ" only when we have been perfected by the working of Grace, which is indeed being dead unto sin, as you stated "Paul is saying recognize that sin has no rule/dominion over you" meaning you don't have to sin no more. For Grace teaches us the Cross, the power of God unto salvation. The body is just a vessel animated by the spirit & soul, become John 3:5 & Rom 12:1 & the body will be animated & be led by Holy Spirit. Yet for all this, it is safe to say the body of flesh still bare the consequences of the fall, but in the next life we're to received new bodies, like unto His glorious body. Halleluiah!

3.1 John 3:1-9, yes indeed, after the working of Grace in the 1 Pet 1:2; Titus 3:5 being born again by receiving 1Pet 1:23 unto the new Creature, created in Col 3:10;

3 of 3

4. 1 John 1:7-10; We all come into the world as miserable sinners Rom 3:23; but with the coming of Christ/Grace we don't have to stay that way, Rom 3:24; through the obedience of faith in the Light of His Countenance that shine in our heart, 7-10 explains the operations of Grace appearance, John 16:8 bringing these to seeds into judgment within conscience, if we then say we have not sin, we deceive ourselves ,make Him a liar & the Truth/Word is not engraft within us. But if received, He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, iniquity, transgression & sin, Titus 2:14; By receiving His convictions, is the Power received, & everyone that 1John 3:3; is experience. So there a time when He finds us in sin, & a time that He cleanse from all sin.

5. Jude 1:21-24; ; Keeping yourselves in the love of God/ is by keeping His commandments, 1John 2:3-6; John 14:24; the Light of His Countenance that shine in our hearts

& in doing so He will keep you from falling, present you faultless! This is obviously from sinning against Him.

Page 2. Bro. Dan.

And what if we only speak to others of aiming to be sin-free and not the reality of a life where sin will always make an entrance? - what happens to them when they can't, losing their battles, getting depressed for failing their Lord? We're then left with greater tragedies by lives defeated & utterly confused. If being sinless can be a present reality, then yes, it must be taught. But nowhere in the Bible I read it as you suggest.

1 John 3:6. In the Greek, the verb applying to 'the one who abides in Him, 'sinneth' not', is what I understand as a 'present indicative active' verb. That is, the verse declares that the person who is truly abiding in Christ is not a person presently behaving in a sinful condition, or continuing in sin. Not that he is sinless, but when sin is committed, he is dealing with it & not entertaining it. The hallmark of those NOT 'in Christ', is that sin is of no consequence & if the conscience is affected, he will deal with the matter in his own way, in his own time. However, for the true believer, any sin has to be immediately identified as that which is against the Will of God & must be dealt with accordingly. There is no suggestion in this verse that the one in Christ no longer sins. GBU.

Would you agree that baptism is a command?

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3:21 KJV

Does this verse above say baptism doth NOT save us, or that it does? I didn't write this, God did. Are your words in perfect alignment with what God said here? Does it say that baptism is unimportant and should be avoided and definitely do NOT be baptized or does it say the opposite of that?

Mark 16:16

Acts 2:38

Matthew 28:19

John 3:5

Ephesians 4:5

It sure seems very important based on these verses, do you agree? Blatant disobedience is not a sign of a true Christian according to what the Bible says.

John 15:10

I've never understood how someone can call himself a Christian but aim to do the very minimum they assume they need to do in order to get to heaven. I don't think Jesus is a bare minimum type of being. He wants all of you like the greatest commandment says: Matthew 22:37-38. It doesn't say love God with only part of your heart and pick and choose whatever you're comfortable with in obeying and its totally cool if you don't do 50% of the stuff in the Bible. The life of a Christian is to be a slave to righteousness. It's not just a get out of hell free card to enjoy following satan and do whatever lust the heart desires. Most will cry Lord Lord at the end assuming they're saved, but will not be. These are people that tell everyone they're saved and will be devastated on how they got it wrong and actually didn't love Jesus like they claimed.

NUMBERS CHAPTER 21

Continued...

They asked Moses to pray to the LORD and have Him remove these serpents. They must have been very prevalent and not just a few here and there. I would say they were overrun by the serpents, just as sin overruns those who are careless towards God. Perhaps the serpents just dropped out of the sky, since elsewhere in Scripture they are described as flying fiery serpents, (dragons)

Moses prayed and God instructed Moses to create a bonze serpent and place in on a pole. Those who followed his instructions to look upon the snake on the pole would be healed of their bite, but those who refused to look upon the snake would die from their bite. Interesting in that the serpents were sent upon them due to their sin. And the image on the pole was the object God used to punish them for their sin. They had to look upon the object that brought their punishment to be healed.

Jesus said compared Himself to the serpent on the pole in this chapter and that any who look to Him and believe on Him will not perish, but have eternal life. ( John 3:14-15) He became sin on the cross, he took our sin upon Himself, and took the punishment for our sin from the Father, and nailed our sin to the cross, so that we could have eternal life in Him.

After this episode with the serpents and God removing the serpents, the Israelites set out and camped in Oboth, then Ije-abarim, in the wilderness of Moab, east of Jordan. Then move on to the valley of Zared. From there they camped on the other side of the Arnon River, in the Amorite territory where it borders Moab. Verse 14-15 mentions a book of wars that tell of what the LORD did in these areas for the Israelites. This must have been a book scribed by another Israelite and was not preserved or discovered yet.

From the brooks of the Arnon River (Ar) they went to Beer, were there was a well without water. God promises to bring forth water from the well after the princes and nobles dug up the well at God's direction.

Hi David,

Thanks for your input regarding this subject of sin. Your are stating something that most Christians (including myself) have been taught to believe over many years. You stated: But we will not and CANNOT become a sinless personality until we have become "saved" both in SOUL and BODY. If we can't, then why did Jesus give us His Holy Spirit? John3:6-7 1John 3:9. John1:12

I mean no disrespect here, but you are reiterating the mindset of millions of Christians. I accepted this view for years, and didn't begin to question it until recently. Common sense tells me that if we convince ourselves the we CANNOT do something -we can assure ourselves that we will NEVER accomplish our goal. Our goal according to God/Jesus is to stop sinning! John 5:14 John 8:11

Matthew 17:20

"And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

I believe that our failure to stop sinning is directly related to our faith. If Jesus tells us we can move a mountain he is telling us that we can stop sinning.

David you are saying that we can't stop sinning even with God's Holy Spirit which in direct contradiction to Matt 17:20 with Jesus telling us directly - "nothing shall be impossible unto you" do you believe this? Something that we all need to think about.

GBU

Hi Chris, You state: "I don't believe that any Christian, at least here on these pages, would ever advocate that we can just continue sinning because we can never get victory over sin - this I have state numerous times here over the years."

Then you go on to state: " But the fact remains that we can never be free from sin in this life" You are telling others here exactly what I was stating in my previous post: That Christains are reinforcing the idea - that we can never be free from sin! This is the defeatist attitude that most Christains (including myself) have accepted over the years, and by continuing to embrace this, it seems to me we are dooming ourselves to sin, when in fact Jesus tells us we can overcome sin.

1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

So, do we believe other Christains telling each other that we will always be living in sin because we can't possible ever be sin free, or do we believe Jesus when He tells us we need to stop sinning, also scripture above "whosover sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." Do we really know God if we continue to sin? If we don't believe that we can truly stop sinning and work toward that goal with the help of Gods Holy Spirit - we will need to disregard all of the scripture like this.

You state: "I've not met anyone who genuinely believes that he/she has reached that state & is now sinless". There are over 2.5 Billion Christains in the world today. You may not have met anyone that you know that would be living sin free, but don't you think it is possible that there may be some Christains out there in the world that may be living sin free. Something to think about.

Regarding 5:14 & John 8:11 Jesus said stop sinning. Sin is Sin. He didn't say stop committing adultery or any other specific sin - so we have to believe when when he spoke to the adulteress and the invalid - He said: stop sinning - it means all Sin!

GBU

The law is Holy, but it couldn't make you Holy.

Matthew 9:16-17 gives a distinction between the old covenant and the new covenant.

You can't put new wine into old bottles or new garments on to old garments.

We are Identified with Jesus Christ finish work on the cross.

We're given a new heart whereby a new inner man is created. We have been given an earnest of the spirit.

However, we still have this body of sin that wars against our nature. This is what Paul is saying in Romans 7:20-25.

Sin should not have Dominion over you, (Meaning, it should not rule over or dominate you).

This is not just your outward actions that we focus so hard on trying to control.

This also speaks on your thoughts and temperament, your lusts in your members, desiring to want.

The lust of the eyes and so on.

Our blood washed garments are made perfect, "by the cross",

THIS IS WHAT PAUL IS TELLING US IN ROMANS 6.

Paul is saying you have been joined with Christ.

Does that make you perfect? NO.

The payment was perfect, but the purchase has yet to be perfect.

Paul is saying recognize that sin has no rule/dominion over you.

Our position in Christ remains forever. This is what 1 John 3:1-9 is saying.

So, do we sin outwardly? Answer; 1 John 1:7-10 is the sum of it all.

Your best effort to keep them clean is like cleaning with filthy rags. That's all our righteousness is!

Our righteous deeds may build on the already set foundation, but it won't "add to the foundation.

We are imperfect vessels looking for the mercy of Christ.

Jude sums it up in vs 21-24 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

And of some have compassion, making a difference:

And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy.

GOD BLESS

Our Addiction To Sin

The apostle John tells us:

1 John 3:4

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

The apostle Paul tells us:

Romans 3:31

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Romans 7:7

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

The wages of SIN is DEATH! We should not fool ourselves - Jesus didn't come here to die on the Cross so that we can KEEP SINNING! He wants us to repent and strive to live sin free. He tells us to Stop Sinning! John 5:14

The gift that God gives us in the salvation of Christ is to empower us to break free from the sin cycle, and repent of sin through conscious effort. When our own efforts fall short, His power is strong enough to help us succeed, but we must make the effort!

As Christains we should be encouraging each other to Not Sin, instead, I continually hear the opposite - stating we are sinners, and we can never stop sinning. That is a deafest attitude, and an assurance that we will continue to wallow in sin.

Read and Believe

Chris,

Thanks for the robust conversation. Yes, we will have to just disagree and move on, as I considered your beliefs and interpretation of the scripture but can't agree with you, without ignoring God, Christ, and ton's of scripture. I will always opt to follow God's word because we know Him if we keep his commandments, sin is the transgression of the law, God's words will never pass away.

Matthew 24:35

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

1 John 2:3

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."

1 John 3:4

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

It is a marvelous and beautiful thing that God speaks in simple language for the simple person to understand his Gospel. Amen

GBU