Discuss Revelation 22 Page 13

Hi Brother Dan.

Yes I believe that scripture but I believe we have a difference in interpretation.

I thought we covered it already, however I will elaborate further.

My Quote:

you've posted 2 scriptures, I will deal with Revelation 22:12-14. first.

HERE IS THE WORK.

John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)

When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Furthering on.

In Revelation 22:14-15. we have 2 groups here. Verse 14 THOSE SAVED FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, ( CHRIST BEING A CURSE for us.)

Verse 15 by its description of the group is those who NEVER Received Christ and washed by the blood. You and I was apart of that group also. Christ plus the Law didn't save us, It was Christ alone.

The 10 Commandments wasn't given to us to keep or "Try" to keep for salvation, It was given to Israel while God carried them on eagles wings to show the world it was in need of a savior. The law couldn't change the inner Man. Only the outer parts of the vessel. Here's a n example.

Mathew 23:25-26.

Burnt works, Still saved.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15.For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE.

G.B.

Brother Dan, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and understanding.

You quoted: Revelation 22:12-14

I believe you are not applying the pronouns in the verse to the correct person.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I (CHRIST)(SPIRIT)(TRUTH)(LIFE) come quickly (during each persons fleshly life span), and my (Christ's) reward (Spirit, Truth, Life)(the gift of God) is with me (Christ), TO GIVE (Spirit, Truth, Life) ever man according as HIS (Christ's) WORK shall be.

Revelation 22:13 I (Christ) AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning (of creation) and the ending (of creation), the first (of creation) and the last (of creation). The first man BORN OF SPIRIT (truth and life) and the last man BORN OF SPIRIT (truth and life).

There is ONLY ONE BODY (Christ) and ONLY ONE SPIRIT (the Father). Being born of TRUTH (the word(s) of GOD) will result; at the end of SUFFERING in the flesh, you BEING MARRIED (BECOME ONE) with CHRIST.

He who is born of FLESH is FLESH.

He who is born of SPIRIT is SPIRIT.

God is SPIRIT; thus you become a FULL BROTHER TO CHRIST. A SON OF GOD, and all that implies.

Remember, you DIED with Christ and was resurrected to HIS LIFE AND WORKS.

You can not add YOUR WORKS.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they (those alive in Christ) and that do HIS commandments (Christ; now you life, never broke a commandment of God), that he (new creation in Christ) may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates (Christ and those married to him) into the city (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS).

Hi Brother Spencer

Nice to hear from you. I'm glad to hear you say that you believe in the 10 commandments, and that you take them seriously. It's what God wants from us!

I agree, none of us will be able to be perfect, and keep the 10 commandments at all times, or remain perfectly sin free. That doesn't relieve us from trying, and when we fail, we can ask God for forgiveness through his son Jesus Christ. His sacrifice on the cross, is God's gift to us to allow us to obtain forgiveness of sin, not an excuse to say I believe and continue to sin!

You offer up this scripture: Matthew 22:36-40, and John 13:34-35, I agree, this is Jesus summarizing the 10 commandments, to Love God, and Love our nieghbor. So, if we believe these verses, then it's only logical that we should also believe all of the other scripture related to Jesus asking us to observe and try our best to keep the 10 commandments!

Many Christians today, including some on this site, seem to NOT believe they will be judged for keeping God's commandments and producing good works. I've previously submitted this scripture in some of my previous posts on this site. This scripture is (very powerful and enlightening) from Jesus speaking approximately 40 years after his death:

Revelation 22:12-14

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

A simple question Brother Spencer, Do you believe this scripture above? Yes, or No?

God Bless.

Brother Adam,

Amen. I agree, and if I could pick only one scripture from the entire bible that summarizes what God really wants from us, it is Jesus speaking to us in this Scripture!

John 14:15

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

I would not want to look Jesus in the eyes on judgement day and tell him (Jesus Christ) who will be the Judge, that I ignored his request! We all need to think about this.

Here is Jesus speaking to us thru apostle John 30-40 years after his death on the cross - in Revelation below:

Revelation 22:12-14

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Here is Jesus still saying the same thing to us 30-40 years after his death! Keep his commandments, and we will be judged for our good or bad works.

So the argument that the apostle Paul and others can teach anything different than what Jesus taught throughout the ENTIRE BIBLE, is debunked by Jesus himself in the above scripture!

God Bless.

Psalm 1:3

John 15:1 -12

Genesis 1:11 -12

Genesis 2:9

Revelation 22:1 Revelation 22:2

Hopefully these scriptures are helpful

Dear Brother Spencer

A few further comments on your specific scripture that you presented.

I originally quoted: Revelation 22:12-14. Your answer is: John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)

I will agree with you " that we must believe on him whom he hath sent - Jesus." I believe this scripture! So, if we are to believe in Jesus we should also believe what he is telling us numerous times throughout the bible that we must produce good work and good fruit, and we will ultimately be judged accordingly as in:

Revelation 22:12

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Do you believe this scripture?

On to your other scripture: Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I believe and agree with the scripture that you quoted in Philippians! God will work within the faithful believer to help to bring about good work/and produce good fruit.

But in the end it is up to the believer who still has "free will" to work toward their salvation by being faithful to Jesus and God's Commandments and by producing the good work that is required throughout scripture.

God Bless.

When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh

Brother Spencer,

I enjoy our dialogue on scripture although we my have differences in the interpretation.

You state: NOW 1 JOHN 2:3-6. This is not the 10 commandments,

I see it clearly as the 10 Commandments.

You state: If so consider Galatians 5:3-4. and if you are under the law you'll need the temple built to do vain sacrifices that could never save.

The 10 commandments DO NOT include the old laws such as circumcision and temple sacrifice.

So in essence you seem to say that you do not believe that you need to follow God's 10 commandments. Is this true? Please consider the following scripture of Jesus coming to judge all of us.

Revelation 22:12-16

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

So, Jesus says:" Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city". Do you believe this scripture?

God Bless.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I hope all are healthy. I am interested in serving others and doing God's will on this blessed Sabbath Day!



So I will continue to address the current popular christian belief of Faith/Grace and Nothing else. I will share some scripture below that affirms that Jesus will judge us according to our works.

Revelation 2:23

"And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

Revelation 22:12

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

James 2:19-24

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

God gives us the choice to believe and accept this scripture and act on it, or ignore it. It is our choice. It's might be easy to fool ourselves, but we can't fool God!

God Bless.

Hi Brother Dan.

quoting you: "Yes, we need to commit as Christians to walk with Christ and are instructed to in many various scripture throughout the bible." WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT?

The portion you pulled out of my comment was the first sentence of part 2. You should have considered the 1st sentence of part 1 as well then we would be keeping the discussion in a direct orderly fashion.

Here is the opening sentence of part 1. Is our atonement forever or once Christ freed us it's up to us to Atone for ourselves? Here is part 2. Some would argue once Christ saved us it's up to us to remain saved. My question to that group is can you do that and How? The emphasis here is if Christ offered the perfect sacrifice "ONCE" and for all to atone for our sins, If one believes the atonement isn't once and for all and sins again "which we all do"

How do he re-atone himself when there is no more sacrifice? Can he offer Good works when works of the law could never cleans you. Brother Dan I posted a lot of Scripture that you seem to bypass, If those scriptures doesn't mean what I seem to believe why don't you start off with each one of them and tell us what they do mean.

you've posted 2 scriptures, I will deal with Revelation 22:12-14. first.

HERE IS THE WORK.

John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)

When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

NOW 1 JOHN 2:3-6. This is not the 10 commandments, If so consider Galatians 5:3-4. and if you are under the law you'll need the temple built to do vain sacrifices that could never save.

God bless.

Brother S Spencer

You ask: "Some would argue once Christ saved us it's up to us to remain saved. My question to that group is can you do that and How?"

I will let Jesus and apostle John answer your question(s). Yes, we need to commit as Christians to walk with Christ and are instructed to in many various scripture throughout the bible. Here is apostle John below:

1 John 2:3-6

3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Regarding Christians producing good works/good fruit, here below Jesus tells us in no uncertain terms that he will reward us accordingly for our good work:

Revelation 22:12-14

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

So, Jesus says above: I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE!

Blessed are they that do HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and MAY ENTER in through the gates into the city!

To deny the above scripture is to argue with Jesus/God. We must take ACTIVE participation toward our salvation!

God Bless.

Dear Brother ChrisE,

Sorry to hear that you and your family have suffered with the covid, but also very glad to hear that you, and family members affected, have now recovered. We also praise God along with you for the healing.

I also believe that God created his children to have special talents, including the knowledge to use medicine to heal. God provides us with this knowledge to help ourselves as the following scripture mentions.

Revelation 22:2

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

2 Kings 20:7

"And Isaiah said, Take a lump of figs. And they took and laid it on the boil, and he recovered."

Even Jesus acknowledges that we may need a physician:

Matthew 9:12

"But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick."

We Praise God for your recovery, as God continues to use others, and methods (Physicians, pharmaceuticals) to help us in the healing our physical ailments.

God Bless.

Revelation 22:3 and, Acts 7: 55-60

In both verses, Jesus is seated at the right hand of God. No one is seated on His left hand.

Other people have alluded that Archangel Gabriel (the Messenger) stands near Gods left; but he is not seated. There is no scripture for that assertion, that I have seen.

Mishael

Brother Tim,

I agree with Brother Adam who previously responded to your comments. Surely we most do more than just believe. Jesus states in scripture below: he will reward every man according to his work. This does take action on our part, as Jesus also states in scripture below, that he will come quickly and reward those who keep his commandments, and they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:12-14

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

So, if you believe what Jesus is stating here in the scripture: We must then keep his (God's) commandments and produce good work/good fruit!

Jesus didn't die on the cross, so that all of us can keep sinning as much as we want - with no repercussions. There is no free ticket to heaven!

God Bless

replying to a comment by "Karen Newman"

The wild beast here at revelation 13 is identifying two beast. (is a Man's number #666... 1 John 5:19)

It speaks like a dragon (Satan the Devil is liken to a dragon Revelation 12:7-12.

The Devil and his demons tells lies.- Genesis 3- John 8:44; Matthew 4:1-11.

but believes and shudders- mark 1:23-26; James 2:19 )

Satan Gives this wild beast power, a seat (throne), great authority on the earth. this beast is fatally wounded, mortal wounds (Wars/Billions slaughtered).it speaks great things and blasphemies. (speaks against God, blaspheme his name. (Through the centuries bible translations has taken out God's name. "not this king James". those who translated the bible were not ordinary men but "religious leaders"- Psalm 83:18)

This wild beast was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them.

( Example:70 C.E Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. Hitler Germany concentration camp

slaughter holy ones from 1933 to 1945 etc. Religious leaders supported him and walked with Hitler holding up arms with him) has authority over every tribe, and people, and tongue,

and nation.

This wild beat descends out of the earth;

tells others to make an image. (what images can you think of?)

Those who refuse to worship this image to the wild beast is killed.

who are mislead by this man (#666 mark/more then one man) influenced by Satan the devil?

and who is mislead to worship and bow to this image?

All people (Follows the wild beast or with admiration, worships it)

1. The rich

2. The poor

3. The free

4. The slaves

This wild beast (This Man, a PERSON, He/This mark 666 has authority.

any man who had or has this mark) buys and sells

( Luke 4:6 This Wild beast is very rich from those worshiping and admiring him)

Hope this helps

What is the mark of the beast and how do I recognize it?

explain revelation 22:11 and revelation. 22:15

Thanks much

In Gen. 1, plants were created BEFORE man, but in Gen. 2 it happened AFTER Adam was created. How can this be?

Hi Ron Thanks were on the same page that's my understanding. In His Service

8th day ,.. he needed a farmer to till the land !!! For on the 6th day , he created all the races ,.. it was hunters , gatherers,.. an fisherman, that 8th day creation also that was the blood line that Jesus would come threw ,..

IMKane The Gospel or the good news consist of Everything God has done in his word to bring to pass the birth the ministry the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus christ so that fallen man could be redeemed and God would have the family He always wanted from the Beginning in Genesis. Jesus Christ is the main subject matter from Genesis 3:15 to Revelation 22:21. In His Service

Hey Rick,

The word create/created, Hebrew bara meaning to shape, more modern definition, to make something out of nothing. creation ex nihilo Latin for out of nothing, something only God is capable of. God created heaven and earth Gen 1:1, God created great whales and sea creatures and birds brought forth out of water Gen. 1:21. God created man, male and female Gen. 1:27, and there's more. We also have the words Let there be, Let the, made, make, and formed. Is there a reason for this question?

Thanks for your reply, God bless,

RLW

Hi Ronald What is the definition of the word create in Genesis Chapter 1?

I agree the order is not contradictory, I believe it happened exactly the way God gave to Moses. The creation in six twenty-four-hour days. I do not believe these six days are a recreation of a world that was before and destroyed. All that was created was after their kind (No evolution)

Day six, God created man in his own image male and female and God told them Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish(fill) the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over all the earth. "And God saw everything that he had created and said it was very good.

In chapter 2 God rested on the seventh day. Now here the plants of the field had not grown because of no rain, and there was not a man to till the ground, a mist to water the land and LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground and placed him in the garden that LORD God made grow and every tree pleasant to the sight, and good for food for Adam the dress and keep it.

Plants on day three, and man on day six, can we honestly say this is the same?

Then LORD God said it was not good that man was alone unlike the end of day six everything was very good. So, LORD God formed beast of the field and fowl of the air out of the ground and brought them to Adam to name.

On day five we have the fowls out of the water, and day six we have the beast of the earth, cattle, and creeping things, created before man, male and female. In chapter two we have Adam formed and he was alone with no female, animals, and fowls that were formed after Adam.

Can we say this is a more detailed description of the six days?

Why do we try to make fit Adam and Eve in day six when scripture clearly shows they were not? What would it change if Adam and Eve were later, how later, or what went on before them, we are not told? The flood wiped out all but their descendants who were eight, Noah, his sons, and wives, and the line of Seth leading to Jesus, who the Bible is all about, and all humans from Adam until now are descendants of Adam?

God bless,

RLW

Hello Jan, I still don't understand what you assume is a contradiction?

God - Day 3 - plants

Day 6 - man

LORD God didn't plant a garden until AFTER he formed Adam. He hadn't made it rain because there wasn't a man to till the ground, but water came up from the earth. So, he formed Adam & planted a garden. God didn't wait until there was a man to till the ground, but that's exactly what LORD God had planned to do.

Go into this websites' SEARCH BOX enter the word: CREATED

and hit the arrow, you can sort the list if you desire.

It will expand your view. From Old Testament to New Testament.

If you will go to the SEARCH BOX ON THIS WEBSITE, and type in just the word CREATED;

The Search Engine will pull up all the verses in the whole Bible with CREATED in it. This includes Old and New Testament.

You will have a complete picture of Creation. Also, how it is explained in real time and future time; and everything in between.

In Genesis, Highlight all the places where it says What Day God blessed when He was Done. [ first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh. You will see the before, during, and after motions.

For some reason New Christians will start out in Book 1, chapter 1 and be disappointed by Day 7 of Creation.

All of us should start in the Gospels, then Acts, the writings of Paul and other Disciples of Jesus. For a blessing: the Book of Revelation.

Proverbs for Wisdom; Psalms for Comfort and Prayers of all kinds. The Prophets to understand past connected to future.

We're not trying to discourage you. We're trying to help you find what you are looking for.

John 3 Jesus shows Nicodemas that we all MUST BE BORN AGAIN, to see the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus baptizes us with THE HOLY SPIRIT, who is our Teacher on this earth. He reveals Jesus do we can understand.

We can chit chat all day long, but it is the Holy Spirit that reveals Jesus, and our Father, God. All of John 3, reveals who Jesus is to us; believers.

We're just being helpful, trying to. :)

Hi Jan This is a perfect example of carefully reading Gods Word Genesis 1:22 God made the beast it doesn't say create there. In Genesis 2: 5 is a continuation of explaining what God had done earlier in genesis 1:29+30. In Genesis 2:19+20 God is saying who he put in Charge of creation Adam and Eve would be there to help Him. That's why God brought all every beast of the field and fowl of the air to adam then adam with Gods spirit named all of them just think about how intelligent this man was. It was not normal human intellect. Prayerfully this Helps In His Service

Hello, I'd like to respond to what you wrote: "when the order in which they created things is contradictory"

The order isn't contradictory. Is it possible you are intepreting it in a certain way where you perceive it to be contradictory? Because it's not contradictory when I read it, nor has it ever been.

You wrote: "it's not the validity of the Bible I dispute, but the interpretation of it."

I can only guess as to why would choose to interpret it a certain way that doesn't seem to line up. I know from past experience others made assumptions about how information is presented. For example, it's common in books to have a summary or thesis statement in the beginning then go into detail and explain it thereafter. Let's say you told me you were in a car wreck then said someone side swiped you. Then I respond by saying "What?! You were in 2 wrecks? You were in a car wreck THEN were side swiped, that's hard to believe. Be honest, were you in 1 or 2 wrecks?"

Is it possible that when you read in the begining God created the heavens and earth, etc that you didn't interpret that as a summary statement, but an event that happened and ended, then when it says God created Adam, that you assumed it was at a different time and not simply the same event explained in more detail?

God bless...

Hey Jan,

The Bible does not contradict itself; the traditions of men do. When we read with all those preconceived ideas and traditions, we cannot hear the Holy Spirit of truth. I am sure the word just popped out telling you this does not match. Jesus busted the Pharisees, ( Mark 7:4-9), traditions are of man. The tradition of Adam and Eve being the first humans is a tradition.

I am not of the group of a world before this one and it was destroyed, but you are correct the six days do not line up with the second chapter with Adam and Eve. The purpose of Adam is what gets lost, was it to start humankind or the start of the plan of our salvation, being the first Adam and Jesus the last Adam to undo the works of Satan. Due to the flood, we are all descendants of Adam.

Things to look at, the word earth, h-'-re #776 meaning earth, land, countries. And field, the word field ( ha--eh). Strongs #7704 meaning; field, land, agriculture. All the plants in day three were self-producing no cultivation needed. Second chapter it had not rained because there was not a man to till the ground. These were plants of the field, you must plant and till a garden or it will not grow, (husbandry).

The animals in chapter two were of the field (domesticated), the fowls were out of the ground (domesticated) not out of the water as day five. This clearly is another creation and one would have to deny or ignore what scripture clearly says to fit a tradition.

Man, male and female in day six were told be fruitful, multiply and replenish (to fill) the earth, subdue it and have dominion over all thee earth that God had created. Adam and Eve were in the garden, could they do what was told man in day six? No. If we say it was after they were cast out of the garden could God say at the end of day six all was very good? No. Adam and Eve sinned and they did not multiply until they were cast out of the garden.

I know this is not a lot of info but may it help.

RLW