Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 1206

"Speak truth each one of you with his neighbor."

Ephesians 4:25

2 Timothy 3:16,17

Psalm 83:18

Glen Barbour - in Reply on 2 Maccabees 7

Chris,

I am not catholic! However, what I was referring too is that these books are not listed in the bible (66 books). It was originally in the old KJV bible 1610, but was removed. I do not believe in purgatory and praying for the dead.

You are replying to a comment by "Glen Barbour and Chris"

Messenger Replies:

Please read Acts 24:15 We can pray to God ( Psalm 83:18) for his kingdom to come ( Matthew 6:9,10).

Why? because we can pray that he resurrect our loved ones who have died (the ones we love so dearly)

John 5:28,29

Job 14:14,15

John 11:25

DG on Job 12:9

Does Job 12:23

mean that God is the bone who makes 'our nation (S) great...oR is it man who by his convictions of doing right and serving the afflicted, and heeding to moral laws within their heart and soul etc.?

You are replying to a comment by "DG"

Responding to your question. please read Job 42:1-7

Job also recognized that he uttered and said what he did not understand.

things to wonderful for him. that "he knew not" or nothing.

he repented about what he said. and God said that job spoke things that is right

or he spoke truth. Job 40:3-5 proves that in grief and in agony and pain he spoke

things he did not understand. again however, he repented about all the things he did

not understand. then Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) said he spoke truth (by means of repentance and

taking back or correcting what he previously uttered in ignorance)

Thanks

2 Timothy 3:16,17

John 3:16,17

You are replying to a comment by "Brenda F Bunte"

Hello brenda, to answer your question about a coney.

A Coney is a (Rock Hyrax) that looks like a rounded 'Meerkat' (without the black eyes)

they look so cute and adorable. however, under the mosiac law these

animals were considered unclean and shouldn't be eaten. Deuteronomy 14:7

Thanks:

Psalm 83:18

John 3:16,17

I will try not to get confused with what man says, and thank you. God bless you, too!

Thank you Chris. I appreciate your advice. I will try it out and see how it goes. I can't help but wonder. What is your religion?

hebrews 11 5 any ideals i can research this .....translated

Does Job 12:23 mean that God is the bone who makes 'our nation (S) great...oR is it man who by his convictions of doing right and serving the afflicted, and heeding to moral laws within their heart and soul etc.?

Chris,

I am not catholic! However, what I was referring too is that these books are not listed in the bible (66 books). It was originally in the old KJV bible 1610, but was removed. I do not believe in purgatory and praying for the dead.

I try to understand who Melchisedec was or is, and what happened after Abraham had paid tight to him. How is he likened to, or compared, with our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Thank you.

What is a coney?

Is my forefathers a demon? how describe the different between my culture and loving my forfathers

MI HA - Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

MI this is Jesus talking I believe if he said (these ought ye to have done) I should do as Jesus said, It is in Luke 11:42

Hello Chris and Adam.

My belief as to the meaning of "sleep", as used by Paul, is death and the waiting period that follows until christ returns for His church. This state of being could very well be the "Paradise" Christ promised the thief on the cross; in no instance should "paradise" be considered as heaven, for it is not.

As for the body, it does not maintain its form or shape or physical appearance - dust to dust - via "corruption", or decay.

Paul states that the dead in Christ will rise first and join Christ in the clouds. Paul also states these dead in Christ will be raised as an incorruptible entity. Paul does not say the body will be raised; The sleeping spirit is raised from its rest, or sleep. I see no connection to the previous body here, only the spirit, or soul.

In 1 Corinthians 15:52b Paul says "we shall be changed". I take this as a reference to those alive when Christ gathers His church.

As to the composition of what Christ gathers and our heavenly state, I have no idea, nor have need to know. Just being there is the goal. However, John in his Revelation did report seeing angles, beings, thrones, the one on the throne, the lamb, souls, etc. Thus I conclude in whatever state beings may be in heaven, they are visible to the other beings in heaven.

I personally view the narrative of Lazarus and the rich man as a parable and not as a description of the actual resting place of the departed spirit. If it is a literal description of the home of departed souls, then we must conclude Paul's description using sleep is incorrect.

As for Paul's ascension into heaven, I see it as no different than that of John. Both ascended, saw, remembered, and recorded. Both continued an earthly life.

As for the immortality of the spirit, or soul, it is eternal. It is never destroyed as Christ said. It exists for eternity in either heaven or hell.

Bill

Chris One thing that amazes me is when someone says this is what paul wrote or Isaiah wrote or Luke wrote, they all wrote what God wanted written, its His Word. Just an observation.

Thanks brother Adam for your reply. I agree, "sleep is a state of rest" & being oblivious to everything through our nightly sleep, we can be thankful to the Lord that we still have life & breath - not so for those who've died (slept with no awakening & eventually reduced to dust). But your second paragraph statement seemed to imply that "between death & Jesus' return" we will still be 'altogether' (body, or what's left of it, & the spirit) waiting for the call.

Concerning man's spirit. My understanding that a spirit has no physical properties - that it is the essence of a person (the body being a covering for our functions & recognition). If "the spirit of man goeth upwards" & Jesus spoke of "fearing not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul", they seem to confirm that the immaterial part of us (the real 'us'), cannot be destroyed & remains accountable to the One Who gave it.

Those 'out of body' experiences, even the one you had after your accident, demonstrates that the spirit that gives life to the body, can return (& must return) for that body to resume functioning. But at death, the spirit is gone, unless, as Jesus brought back the spirit into people (e.g. Lazarus, Jairus' daughter). If the spirit goes, then to where? With ghosts & apparitions, I know nothing - maybe demonic activity or their impersonations. But then we have 1 Samuel 28:7-15, which can lead us to think of a departed soul in a resting place (OT economy). If for Samuel, then why not others who have departed? Should not our spirits leave the body & as in Paul's case have access to Heaven ( 2 Corinthians 12:1-4)? So "if the dead in Christ shall rise first", the spirit that once left it, must rejoin it. The question remains, where goes the spirit of man? If we maintain that the body sleeps, then we should also answer, where does his spirit reside? Is it still active & alert in another place or hovering over a body that is long gone? For the believer, I believe it's in Heaven.

Jesus dilivered men from the power of eternal death, the second death, after the jugment day! It's writen,that the father gave all jugment to the Son, because Jesus is the son of men! The salvation like Jacob's deleverance from Esa, is based on the relashionship btween the beleever and the Savior, the Begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ, the second Adam!

It's written: Your Way, oh God is at thr sanctuary, Jesus is the sacrifice, because he took upon him the penalty of the transgression of the law of the ten commandements, becaming our substitute, nevertheless, the inocente lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!

According to Tessaloniens, Paul the apostle of the gentils, enlightened the church of the living God Allmighty, about the condition of men facing death, sayng that after the first death all men will ressurect, ones for life and others for the second and eternal death, with satal and his angels! To Gob be the Glory, because He is mercifull, forgiving, longsuffering patient, and waits for me and you. Today we still can, with a simple act of faith, accept the power of Jesus's blood, while we are on the way and alive, because God is God of the living! After death, awaits us the jugment. Today, if you listen the voice of God (Jesus through the Holy Spirit) don't harden your hearts!

There is no salvation after death! This is devil's lie, like Eve, whosoever beleeves it, wil die the second death, the sin beeing that the Light came into the world, but men prefered darkness! Jesus said whosoever beleeves in Me wil not die ( the eternal and defenitive one).

Good morning Brother Chris, Thank you for your walk and sharing to me and others including some of your experiences in the walk by faith. I am at physical work and will have to wait to write more. In the meantime I wanted to clarify my thought on pacifism as non- violence and non- resistance as a quality of Jesus that we must know in our lives to know Him. I am interested in hearing more about the Gospel tract distribution work in Pakistan too!

No. He was told to smite the rock. He was never told to speak to it. Vs 6.

Hi Ken. Just to add to Adam's very good examples.

I'm not sure whether you are familiar with aeronautics or plotting a navigational route over a long distance. If you take for example a flight plan from Sydney, Aust. to Los Angeles, you will always find that the route will appear curved & not in a straight line on a navigational map. For the purposes of passenger information, a straight line might be drawn on a map to indicate the route & this is correct, but in reality on a flight plan map, it will appear as a curved flight path. The pilot knows that he will be flying straight to LAX (providing there are no diversions) even though his navigational map will show it otherwise. His navigational aids & waypoints that his aircraft computer will need en route will all sit on that curve, even though the curve is actually straight. Sounds strange to read, but true. And the reason for that apparent curve, is because the Earth is spherical. If the Earth was flat, his route would show up as a straight line between two points, but Earth's curvature forces that straight line into an apparent curve. Hope this helps some.

Hello Hope. Your task is not impossible, though I've never tried to memorize large chunks of Scripture. The old adage, "Repetition is the mother of learning", seems appropriate here as well as to those at lower school levels learning answers by rote.

Some have tried using various means such as forming pictures in the mind or specific clues to take them to the next verse(s), but I would think that the old fashioned 'repetition' starting from verse 1, repeating it until it is fully formed in your mind, is best. Then when you get to verse 2, learn that fully but at the end of your session, do several exercises on both verses 1 & 2. And move on in that way with the other verses, always going back to repeating from verse 1. But December 20 is not too far away & 47 verses will be quite a feat, so start today. Wishing you every success.

Thanks for coming back, Helen. I would say that in almost all cases, taking the verse with those added words ("It is a" & "thing") should be quite acceptable for us. Why? Because it gives the sentence a meaning that is familiar to us. Of course, if we were proficient in Hebrew, as another brother Jesse who comes on here regularly, who is very learned in Greek & sheds much light to us on verses & Grecian thinking & expressions, then the whole language may well take on a different meaning & appreciation that we can sometimes miss out on.

But in my attempt to ensure that I'm not losing out on something important in a verse, I often refer to the original language & its lexicons or word translations, to see the different uses of the words in that verse & elsewhere. Or else, you can purchase an Interlinear Bible, or to a (free) Bible Study site, such as Bible Hub, & check out your verses at their Interlinear tab. But remember to read Hebrew texts (with their English counterparts below) from right to left.

But if "italics are not included" as you ask, then you can take some sample verses & test them against the Hebrew/Greek languages at Bible Hub & see whether the translators have done a good job in faithfully communicating the words from the original, or if they snuck in a word or two, ask, has it made any difference to the intended meaning? Ideally, as I wrote before, to know the original languages ourselves, would be the best way to understand & fully test the veracity of Scriptures, but most of us have not that ability.

The Bible doesn't explain everything in full detail (by design, I believe), so I can only offer my personal opinion. This is not based on scripture, but just a few possibilities.

First I think sleep is a state of rest. I believe time passes quickly, possibibly instantaneous to the person. Just like it is when you fall asleep currently and wake up the next morning. Unless you're an insomniac most people don't watch the clock minute by minute for 8 hours. It goes by quickly. People in a coma are the same. When they wake they might be disoriented and not know how much time passed. So, I think between death and Jesus's return I believe we will be in this mode. The scripture says not everyone will sleep, because they haven't died yet when Jesus returns.

It seemed like your 2nd question was about physical location of your spirit/soul. First, I'm not sure what, if any, physical properties there are of a spirit or soul. I know it can inhabit a body, but when dead, I do not know. There is really no way to know. There are thousands of accounts of people having an 'out of body' experience when near death, but 'come back' into their body. I sort of experienced something like this when I had an accident. I also have met so many people who have had other 'spiritual encounters' like with ghosts and paranormal things, that I can't deny many of these accounts and believe it could be evidence of non-sleeping spirits/souls.

There's also a theory of a waiting/resting 'place' such 'paradise' or what some call purgatory. Jesus's statement to the man on the cross that he would be there in paradise is possible that was not heaven, but a VIP waiting area to await Jesus's return and judgment. It's possible that 'where' isn't the right question when talking about a spiritual dimension, as it might not be same as the physical world.

So, these are some ideas worth considering, assuming this was what you were asking.

Hello, my understanding is he was cast out before creation of the earth. There's not a lot of evidence to go on, but given that after creation the 'opening scene' in the Bible is the garden of eden with the serpent already there ready to tempt, that suggests that satan already rebelled and was cursed, but was allowed limited to tempt.

If I may briefly butt in here, & asking brothers Adam & Bill: what, from your understanding of the Scriptures, does the word "sleeping" imply. Of course, we know that in this case it's a euphemism for 'death' of the body. But if the body be dead, then what happens to the spirit of that person, where does it go, if it goes at all?

This point, from what I can gather, never seems to be spoken of by those who believe that a person 'fully sleeps' until the coming of Jesus to rule or at the time of judgement. Those of us, who believe that the body sleeps until the rapture of the Church, also believe that one's spirit at death, returns to the Lord Who gave it, whether to forever be with Christ or be locked awaiting judgement. So, in your understanding, where does the spirit of man go? Does it remain with the body, given the reduction of it to obliteration, whether in the earth, devoured in the sea, or reduced to ash in the flames? Or, is there a holding place for such? And where could this place be? These must be questions that you have also asked yourselves, for which I cannot find a suitable answer for. Every blessing.

Well written Lino. However, I would like to throw in Acts 10:9-16. Even though the message here was to show Peter that all things that God has given (especially in respect to the equality of Jews & Gentiles) are clean, it can't be avoided that animals were part of the diet of human beings. Or else, why use such an 'abominable' illustration of the offering of unclean animals for food? What if Peter had earlier understood this lesson of equality & did rise & partook of them? After all, God had offered. Or maybe, another could say, 'we should only eat animals that God Himself has cleansed & none other'. This also may be true, but the point is, that animals can be eaten, and yes, I do agree with you that all too often we have lost sight of understanding & giving a proper care & preservation of both the flora & fauna that God has given us to enjoy.

Hi Andrew. Just to answer your question, "By what name was John baptizing?" I assume you're speaking of John the Baptist. If so, he wasn't baptizing in anyone's name. His was the baptism of repentance ( Mark 1:4; Acts 13:24; Acts 19:4) & was an in-between baptism from the Jewish performance of baptism (which Jesse has well explained), to 'believers' baptism' (which is an identification with the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus Christ).

The Jewish thought was simply of external washing prior to religious performances (Muslims also do this for that very reason, prior to their five daily prayer rituals) - the Christian belief is one of responding to an inward change. John's baptism was the 'connecting piece', bringing Jews to understand that there needs to be a washing not for the body as was previously done, but to show that it is actually a matter of the heart. And this was done by the "The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight", in preparation of the arrival & ministry of the Messiah, Whom the Jews should have welcomed according to the prophecies that went before Him, but to their suffering & eternal doom, the they rejected & even had Him crucified.

Hello Glen. I'm not sure whether you're saying that 2 Maccabees chapter 7 is not recognized by Roman Catholics, or that the whole Book is not recognized. I can't speak of that particular chapter & account, but I know that the Book is certainly recognized by them, since the doctrine of purgatory & praying for the dead is one of the key references they use in support of it. I speak of 2 Maccabees 12:36-45.

Thank you Chris. Am with u in that.

God bless us all in Jesus Name.

In my KJV, "shall be" are both italicized.