Discuss Revelation 22 Page 5

Honey , don't let anyone steal your joy in the Lord , he is coming and you shall see him and be with him forever . God has made many beautiful promises to us and we shall be like him , this means you and me . I agree Revelation Ch 21 and 22 always cheer me up when this world is dragging me down . Rejoice in the Truth and in your Saviour . Nothing in this life can touch you if you keep your eyes on Him .

This part of God's word is misinterpreted,,, It's Satan who's first on the scene sweetie, Jesus comes after

This part of God's Word is where my hope lies. No matter what I go through before these things happen, I look forward to seeing my Savior come, receiving the full redemption of eternal life and being caught up to meet Him and forever be with my Lord!!! Hallelujah, Glory to His Name!!!

Hi Dere.

Salvation goes out to everyone.

John 1:29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.

Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let HIM THAT HEARETH say, Come. And let HIM THAT IS A THIRST come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely.

Romans 10:9-10. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, AND SHALT BELIEVE IN THINE HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

No that's not true we're going to sleep until Jesus comes, when he come then we shall rise to be judge.

Hi earl.

here in revelation 22:11 it says let him holy or unjust ect...still!

earl this suggests after this lifetime and after judgment.

( he that is unjust, let him be unjust "still:" and he which is filthy, let him be filthy... "still:"... and he that is righteous, let him be righteous... "still":... and he that is holy, let him be holy "...still".)

revelation 22:14-15 verifies that!

" blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,...and may enter in through the gates into the city.....

"for without" are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

"after" this life some will remain righteousness that will enter in through the gates into the city.

and there are some who will remain unjust " the dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." who will be without the city.

and revelation 21:8 tells us where they're going!

"but the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

also: revelation 20:13-15 states "and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." this suggests after this life!!

daniel spoke of this in daniel 12:2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

this also suggests 2 groups after this life in an everlasting condition! ( unjust still and righteous still.)

jesus makes reference to 2 groups, 2 destinations after this life in

matthew 25:41-46.

and it's everlasting not a refining fire!!

come on earl let's humble ourselves and not get in the way of this great truth.

Thanks Earl but again we disagree on all those scriptures you presented.

You asked "What does the overcomer, overcome" as if all overcome. Nowhere in scripture presents this.

We would be revisiting a pass discussion where this was put to rest using these scriptures: Revelation 20:1-15. and Revelation 22:10-11.

( The so-called refining fire you're presenting has already past back in Revelation 20:1-15. )

By the time we get to these verses we have the outcome of two groups with separate destinations.

Revelation 22:10-11

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.

(Yet there still remains the unjust AFTER JUDGMENT. )

HE THAT IS UNJUST, LET HIM BE UNJUST STILL: AND HE WHICH IS FILTHY, LET HIM BE FILTHY STILL:................AND HE THAT IS RIGHTEOUS, LET HIM BE RIGHTEOUS STILL: AND HE THAT IS HOLY, LET HIM BE HOLY STILL.

Revelation 22:14-15

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city............

FOR WITHOUT ARE DOGS, AND SORCERERS, AND WHOREMONGERS, AND MURDERERS, AND IDOLATERS, AND WHOSOEVER LOVETH AND MAKETH A LIE.

Again everyone doesn't overcome. Revelation 21:7 is one group. Revelation 21:8 is another.

Amen, "Grae":

The Holy Spirit has given you great insight to his word.

Our knowledge of God never ceases to grow as we spend time in his word.

1 Corinthians 2:9 ...eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath entered into the heart of man, the things God hath prepare for them that love him.

Job 38:7 When the MORNING STARS .....sang together ....

Revelation 22:16 ...I am .....the bright and MORNING STAR .....

Revelation 2:28 and I will give him the MORNING STAR ....

Psalms 82: ....ye are gods, the children of the most high .....

John 17:22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one.

God Bless YOU, his body!

Bro Adam,

Jesus acknowledges that his Father is his God, and Jesus also claims that he is God - like his Father.

Some see a contradiction in these two truths, and so they usually deny one, or the other of them. It has always been a challenge for some to understand this relationship of the Godhead/Trinity in human terms.

In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus tells Apostle John in "no uncertain terms" that he is God.

Revelation 1:8

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 1:11

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Revelation 1:17

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Revelation 1:18

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

Revelation 22:13

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

GBU

Here are a few scriptures that should help show truth

Galatians 1:8,9, no, Angel given another gospel not ok.

Revelation 14, 144,000, seem to be clearly defined in: Revelation 7:3-4, broken down by tribe: Revelation 7:3-8,

Not just the Laterdaysaints: Revelation 7:9-17,

don't add to word, or take away from: Revelation 22:18,19

Matthew 25:31-46,

Women prophets Judges 4:4, Luke 2:36, Exodus 15:20,

Acts 4:12, John 14:6, John 3:16,

Hopefully these are helpful

Janet,

When a person dies, their body lays in the grave, but their spirit immediately goes to be with the Lord. In fact, the word death means separation. So at the point of death, a persons spirit separates from their body and goes to be with the Lord.

Read 1 Thess. 4. It is the clearest text about the Second Coming and what happens when you die. The dead come from the grave and meet the Lord in the air. Also consider this. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, John 11, if he was in Heaven Jesus brought him back so the Pharases could kill him. John 12:10 Jesus said "he sleeps when He was addressing comments regarding Lazarus' death. Everyone is in the grave until the resurrection of the just or the resurrection of the unjust. John 5:28-29

Sleep:

Daniel 12:2

Job 14:12

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15:18-20

Matthew 9:24

Hello, the Bible says when we die we will enter a state to await Jesus's return then will face judgment all together. It's called judgment day. Matthew 12:36, Hebrews 9:27. There's no verse saying people get to skip this. There's no verse saying that all people go to heaven instantly, only to later travel back to earth into your body, then meet Jesus in the air, then to only go back to judgment after you've already been in heaven. It's not scriptural or logical and seems to require misinterpreting the following 2 verses, by cherry picking and broadly interpreting it as if it automatically represents all people and all circumstances.

"absent with body present with Lord" isn't in the Bible. That phrase has been changed from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord, regardless. Paul was only stating his preference. It doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.

Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell including Hitler? Jesus has the power to make exceptions and take people to heaven, but the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this word means a waiting area for the dead.

Lastly, these are only 2 verses requiring creative interpretation, but at least 5 verses say we'll be sleeping are straightforward. Which is true? Bible says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scripture either.

Yes, we go straight to Heaven when we die.

There are verses such as "absent from the body is present with the Lord" ( 2 Cor. 5:8); and others where Jesus says He isn't the God of the dead but the living ( Mark 12:27). There is mention of souls under the altar in Revelation ( Rev. 6:9-11) and the transfiguration; as well as David stating that he would not see his dead son come to him but he would go to him ( 2 Samuel 12:23). When the Rapture comes; then there will be a reuniting of souls with bodies when the dead saints are raised; then we who are alive are changed into Resurrection bodies without death ( 1 Cor. 15:51-52). The final Great White Throne judgment is for those who are in hades or what is now called hell; who are judged according to their works then thrown in the lake of fire. From my undestanding of eschatology; there could very well be those who physically survive the Millenium period and ARE written in the Book of Life.

There is more that can be said; but I felt that the focus should be on how NOW we can recognize through Christ and the new man in us what will exist someday in eternity by the power of the Holy Spirit. If we are saved; then we are new creatures; and although we see darkly as through a glass; we get a taste of things to come ( 1 Cor. 13:12). We are already spiritually "seated in heavenly places" ( Eph. 2:1-9). We become hearers of His voice; and start to sense His presence; and have the "mind of Christ" ( 1 Cor. 2:16). He has given us good works to do which no doubt will continue in heaven in some form as we are all uniquely created.

Scripture simply doesn't allow for an nihilism in any way; verses differentiate between the word "qeber" for the body in the grave and "sheol" which is the state of the soul in the O.T. after death. Now; we can go immediately into God's presence; so Satan no longer has power over our souls to keep them under the earth in the paradise part of sheol anymore HEBREWS 2:14-15! Perfect love casts out fear ( 1 John 4:18).

Janet:

remember the parable jesus gave about the poor begger that the rich man wouldn't give him the crumbs that fell from his table? moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. the begger died and was carried away into abrahams bosom, the rich man died and he was..buried; and in hell he lifted up his eyes and saw lazarus in abrahams bosom. it depends on the way you lived your life in your body (the life that god gave you!! )determines which place you spend eternity. with abraham bosom (heaven,garden of eden, paradise,the kingdom of god whatever..you surely don't want to go where that rich man that wouldn't give that begger the crumbs that fell from his table!!! hope this helps...

I like to think of the scripture absent of the Body in Presence of the Lord n the their whom owned up to his sins and Jesus told him he would be in Paradise n the one Like into the Angels we become is another fav but my favorite one is the one on The Last to go in Lake of Fire Death alit of grief I have had and almost 60 so hope you find what your looking for in ? Just felt like Sharing somewhat with what The Bible says on subject :)

2nd Corinthians 5:8 [ absent from the body is to be present with the Lord]

1st Thessalonians 5:10

1st Thessalonians 4:13-18

1st Corinthians 15th chapter

Read also about thief on the cross Luke 23: 39-43

Lazarus & the rich man Luke 16: 20-31

Could someone tell me, when you die, do you go straight to heaven, or are you "in the grave" awaiting the Lord Jesus to raise you from the dead when he comes back again? I just feel quite confused as to what happens when you die.

Many thanks,

Janet

Gary Myers,

We sleep in death until we are resurrected.

If I may give my understanding.

Luke 16:19-31 First, we must understand this is a parable, and the parables Jesus told he had to explain for his disciples to understand and he did not explain this one. We cannot take this passage as a literal description.

In the context of Luke 16, Jesus is talking to Pharisees and scribes about stewardship, love of riches, adultery and no servant can serve two masters. The Pharisees were covetous, they flaunted their wealth and the seat of authority they had. Is this parable describing a holding place where the redeemed can live in peace but can look and even talk across a vast chasm with the sufferings of the sinners in torment?

The Babylonian Talmud speaks of "Abraham's Bosom" as the place that righteous Jews went after they died. The Jewish people of the time of Jesus had been influenced by Babylonian and Hellenistic Greek cultures, and that influence is still today.

Jesus was probably using a common image from that culture to create a picture that they could relate to their final destination. This parable also does not fit all of the scripture if we receive our reward as soon as we die, as said, we go to heaven or hell.

Many scriptures tell us when we will receive our reward and it is not when we die. Here are just a few and they all agree it is at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Matthew 16:27 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 1 Thessalonians 2:19 Revelation 22:12

John wrote this a while after Jesus ascended, he said Jesus was in heaven, "Son of man which is in heaven", John 3:13. Peter said David is dead and buried and his sepulcher is with us unto this day, and he has not ascended to heaven. Acts 2:29-34

The day of redemption, Eph. 4:30 1 Cor. 15:52 1 Thess.4:16 (not descend) and many more.

God bless,

RLW

Adam and Eve would've lived eternally in sin.

That's why the Tree of Life was protected while Adam and Eve were sent out of the Garden.

We see the Tree of Life in Revelation 22:2,

In Heaven.

One of Jesus's names is the Tree of Life.

The Ark of the Testament is also in Heaven.

Hi Ronald,

I appreciate your respectul remarks and am ok with continuing to dialog as long as that remains.

I can offer a challenge to few of your points in your last comment.

1. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning", God does not have a beginning.

It sounds like you are using this as evidence to support your view. I don't view it that way at all. First, this says "in the beginning" not "in God's beginning" or "in the Word's beginning". So, this phrase doesn't suggest any limitation on God whatsoever, but is just marking for us in our own human terms that Jesus was always there.

Do you remember Jesus saying this: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." That doesn't mean He's limited, but the opposite, it means He spans everything! Revelation 22:13 - notice the words in red that Jesus said that.

It also says this in Revelation 1:8, notice it says "says the Lord". Lord is Greek word kurios which is supreme authority or God. Some translations say "says the Lord God" and is the same meaning. This is Jesus speaking about Himself, it too is in red.

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." - notice this is the same claim Jesus made in Revelation. If there's only one and only one who makes that claim then it seems logical that the claim in both the New and Old Testament are from the same being.

Revelation 11:17 - This uses the same word Lord (kurios) of which Jesus is Lord ( Romans 10:9) and uses the word theos (God) with it, so it calls Jesus "Lord God." Do you agree? How do you feel about this verse?

Isaiah 43:11 - "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." So, it says Jesus is Lord and our savior in the New Testament and there's no other Lord. Here in the OT it also says the Lord is the savior and no one else. That is all in alignment with John 10:30. Yes?

John 5:23 - we must honor Jesus.

but go, show yourself to the Priest. Luke 5:14, Luke 17:14, Matthew 8:4, Mark 1:44,

Deuteronomy 4:2, Revelation 22:18-19

Hello sundry

Jesus is speaking of the Holy Spirit as the "He".

What does the bible mean when it says He will guide you into all truth? who is this He? Thanks

Hey Linda,

Yes, it is for real, we will not be in these corruptible flesh bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:53.

Revelation 21:1-3 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 22:1-4 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

I don't think our human minds can comprehend what it will be like, I know I can't.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Micaiah.

Part 1 of ?

The bible consists of several books as you know. Revelation is just one of 66.

I am not sure you can take Revelation 22:19 and use it as a warning for all the other books.

This warning seems to apply to The prophecy of Revelation.

"And if any man shall take away from the WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THIS PROPHECY, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in "THIS BOOK."

Personally I'm not interested in any of the Apocryphal books because I believe the Lord is capable and did preserve his truth/word in these 66 books line upon line, precept upon precept.

However I have researched as you've asked. Here's what I have been able to find.

Bible Questions Answered

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Home Content Index Bible Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha 1 and 2 Esdras

QUESTION

What are the books of 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras?

1 Esdras, 2 Esdras

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ANSWER

The books of 1 and 2 Esdras are not part of the biblical canon. First Esdras is part of what is considered the Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical scripture. Second Esdras is an apocalyptic work and is considered pseudepigraphal. Except for some Greek Orthodox, Episcopal, or Lutheran Bibles, 1 and 2 Esdras do not appear in most Bibles. Authorship and dating of 1 and 2 Esdras are somewhat problematic, and some scholars place the writing of certain portions of 2 Esdras as late as the 2nd century AD. "Esdras" is another form of the name Ezra, which means "help."

The Roman Catholic Council of Trent in 1546, which officially recognized several books of the Apocrypha, listed "the first book of Esdras, and the second" as part of the biblical canon. However, these are the books we normally call "Ezra" and "Nehemiah" today and are not to be confused with the pseudepigraphal 1 and 2 Esdras (which appeared in the Vulgate as 3 and 4 Esdras).

Please see part 2.

1st and 2nd Esdras are definitely ordained scripture. Do your research. In 1611 the King James Bible was transliterated into different languages (published) it originally had 80 books. Two and seventy years later the Protestants took it out because they realized that the Bible was only for one people and one people only the Israelites so to say it's not scripture or wasn't accepted is blasphemy. Those 14 books to include the Esdras books were in the original Bible for 270 years. The Romans ie the Protestants took it out to confuse the people. If this verse was in the Bible in 1611 when it was published explain why the 14 books lasted for 270 years and then removed

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Revelation 22:19 KJV

Explain that.don't go anywhere else.explain that and that only!!!!!

Naseem,

May these verses help to shine some light for you to understand that Jesus is in fact God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here Jesus is speaking to the Apostle John in Revelation 22:13

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

There are three (3) entities in the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Many people struggle with trying to understand this unique and very special relationship.

GB you

Job 23:14

For HE (the Father, Spirit, Life) performeth the thing that is appointed for me (the Body).......

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (the Father, Spirit, Life) that worketh in you (the Body) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Ephesians 4:4 ONE BODY .....ONE SPIRIT .....

Ephesians 4:6 ONE GOD and Father of ALL .....

Not many BELIEVE that the LIFE in their BODY is CHRIST.

Matthew 7:14 Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto LIFE, and few there be that find it.

John 10:10 .....I am come that they might HAVE LIFE ......

John 19:28 I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE ...

1 Timothy 6:18 WHO only (CHRIST ONLY) hath immortality, dwelling in the LIGHT which no man can approach unto .....

John 11:25 I am the resurrection, and THE LIFE .....

John 14:6 ....I am THE LIFE .....

John 20:31 ....and that BELIEVING you might have LIFE through HIS NAME .....

Revelation 22:4 ....and HIS NAME shall be in their foreheads .....

Revelation 3:12 ...and I will write upon him MY NAME .....

Acts 2:38 ....be ye baptised every one of you IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST .....

John 17:21 That they all may be ONE, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also be ONE IN US ......

God Bless You.