Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 1090

Hello Earl,

Thank you for explaining your point of view. I think you revealed what is at the heart of your belief, thank you, because I was quite perplexed before. I don't know how open minded you are, but I will take a moment to explain something in hope that you will prayerfully consider this.

So, it seems you revealed 2 assumptions. What's interesting is you have inserted your own condition for salvation while claiming there's no conditions for salvation, because you used the format: If.... then.... you basically said "If [all mankind is going to bow and confess] then [therefore, all mankind will be saved]."

This human logic follows the format of "If [this is true] then [this is my assumption about it]."

1. All mankind, at some point in this age or in the ages to come, is going to bow the knee and confess Jesus is Lord, therefore all mankind will be saved.

Our difference is that I believe your assumption about these scriptures to be false. Why?

You quoted: Philippians 2:10-11

You wrote: "You said when this happens you are saved."

My response: "No, I did not. This is false assumption #1. Philippians is referring to after this life, after it's too late. Everyone will eventually bow once this life is over. Salvation is dependent upon what is done during this life, not after. Does that make sense?"

You also left out the very next verse 12 which says "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." It doesn't say "Everyone is saved regardless, so don't worry about it." It doesn't say "do whatever you feel like, because your actions are irrelevant." It says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. This word 'work' suggests action and effort is involved, do you agree? It also doesn't mean we earn it, its grace by which we will be saved, but to receive it we have to accept Jesus's gift and follow Him (actions).

Assumption 2:

Man cannot be in HELL and also CONFESSING JESUS IS LORD.

Why? It will be too late then and all will know.

Rick, no problem, I have bad hair days every day since I am growing my hair out longer and it has for some reason become very curly! (which it never was before). Haha have a good day. Always goo to cat with you. I am fine with you pointing out where ever you think I may err. We all do at times. I endeavor to have a solid and accurate stance on topics, but I am still learning after all of these years walking with our Lord.

I understand this verse to mean that saviors refers to deliverers. It does not really say the way people would operate as deliverers, so I don't wish to take Earl's position and elevate myself higher than I ought to before our True Savior. Instead, I choose to be humble and accept that I am human and do not know all that God will make of me in the life to come or when He returns with to earth with the hosts of believers and angels. Jesus mentioned this humility and that we should wait for the master to lift us up to the position at the table He has chosen for us.

Alex,

Love you, too, in our Lord, Jesus Christ.

I believe that we have had this conversation before about believers becoming gods. Don't wish to re-hash.

I will just leave you with these Scriptures where God is speaking and says there is no other gods but Himself:

Isaiah 43:10

"You are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me and understand that i am He. Before me there was no God found, neither shall there be after me."

Is. 45:21 Ps. 86:10

Is. 37:16 2 Sam. 17:22

Is. 46:9 Is. 44:8

Is. 45:5

There are a multitude of other verses that unequivocally state that God is God alone, and there is no other besides Himself.

Satan was overthrown and thrown out of Heaven because he believed he could ascend and become like God. We should heed the warning from this event and not think too highly of ourselves and think that we could ever become a god that that would share God's essence or Glory. He can not meet these things out to anyone else. He does have some communicable attributes such as love, mercy, compassion, wisdom, etc. that man can possess (but not to the infinitely perfect degree that He possesses them) in a limited finite capacity. It is in these communicable attributes that we are in His image, but never in His essence to be a god beside Him.

Thanks Jesse,

Judas was a scoundrel, what we don't keep in remembrance, the fact that Jesus was going to be crucified, put in a tomb, and resurrected on the third day, it was hidden from the disciples. They thought He was going to set up the kingdom then and Judas probably thought he would have a grand job in treasury where he would have access to the money. He did not kill himself until he saw Jesus was condemned, probably just before or after Jesus was crucified. Matthew 27:1-4

His comment, "I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood" he betrayed Jesus, and now they were killing him, he was not the Messiah because the Messiah was supposed to set up the kingdom, I turned in the wrong man. Just a thought, don't take it to the bank.

God bless,

RLW

Brother David:

Matthew 5:25 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body cast into GEHENNA (translated hell).

When Jesus was on earth Gehenna was the dump ground for Jerusalem where all the trash, garbage and bodies of dead criminals was dumped. It was on fire to DESTROY. Worms were there eating the dead flesh. As long as there was new fuel being dumped there, the worms never died nor was the fire ever quenched. It's a city park now, the is no longer worms or a fire.

Jesus was using Gehenna as an analogy, not something literal. If Jesus meant for you to take it literally, why aren't you missing eyes, hands and feet, that you have cut off and plucked out, to stay out of HELL.

Matthew 5:30

Matthew 10:28

Matthew 23:15

Matthew 23:33

Mark 9:43

Mark 9:45

Mark 9:47

Luke 12:5

Matthew 5:22

Matthew 18:9

James 3:6

All the verses have GEHENNA translated as HELL

Here are the scriptures in the Old testament that refer to Hinnom.

Nehemiah 11:30

Joshua 15:8

Joshua 18:16

2 Kings 23:10

2 Chronicles 28:3

2 Chronicles 33:6

Jeremiah 7:31

Jeremiah 7:32

Jeremiah 19:2

Jeremiah 19:6

Jeremiah 32:35

None of the scriptures have anything to do with the CHRISTIAN HELL.

Gigi That didn't come out the way I meant it sorry bad hair day. LOL

Hello Brother Earl, & all in discussion,

I hope you're not feeling attacked, "faithful are the wounds of a friend." Proverbs 27:5-6, I believe we are all still learning, just because we believed something to be true or false previously doesn't mean we always will. The HOLY Spirit is still teaching all of us. The scriptures that are stirring in me the most while reading your discussion are Matthew 7:13-23, Matthew 25:29-30, Matthew 25:31-46, I pray GOD will give us wisdom in these matters. Philippians 2:12-16, Hebrews 10:23-39,

What does Isaiah 58:1-12 teach me about God?

Hi Rebecca Could you be clearer or perhaps I misunderstood there is no Esther 14.

How did God create man if he was already a man?

Sister GiGi, they are complete opposites of the doctrines of man. Does the doctrines of the brick and mortar church teach the saints are going to judge the world. No, they teach when you die you either go to heaven or to hell. You, yourself in a new location. You are not going to be yourself, but a new creation in Christ Jesus. Man does not want to lose his own identity ( Matthew 16:25) and become the IMAGE of CHRIST. No greater love has a man than to die for his brother, Christ died for you, you have to die for Christ. This the first death ( Revelation 14:13).

John 17:21-24

Gigi It is written an heretic after the first and second admonition reject. According to Ephesians 6 this is my stand.

Earl Take what you have shown and read the verses that they were used in, and in the correct context then let us know what you come up with.

Hi Carleton.

Nice to hear from you.

Get better brother.

God bless.

My verse is from John 1:1, ECCLESIASTES 3, Psalm 91, Roman 8:28, Proverbs 13:24, 2 Corthians 5:7

HELL IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Hell is mentioned only 23 times in the New Testament.

12 times hell is translated from the word Gehenna, referring to Hinnom

10 times hell is translated from the Greek word hades

1 time hell is translated from the word Greek word tartarus

Gehenna (Hinnom) is a real historical and geographic place just southwest off Jerusalem's walls.

This historic, geographical location is found 11 times in the Old testament scriptures, so it SHOULD NOT have been translated HELL.

The Greek word Hades is found and additional 5 times translated GRAVE.

Grave and Hell don't have the same meaning. Why weren't the translators consistent in their translations.

The Greek word tartarus means abyss.

The wages of sin is DEATH and the GRAVE, not HELL.

We have record of Jesus speaking about Gehenna or Gehenna fire; NOT HELL) 11 times, but only on 4 occasions, not more times than anything else in God's Word.

Ronald,

Amen! the phrase son of perdition is a title. And in the Bible, that's only given to two people; Judas Iscariot and the antichrist that is yet to come. Jesus chose an evil man (Judas) to fulfill an evil deed. Judas was among the 12 that followed along with the other 11 during Christ's ministry. But Judas was evil the entire time. Judas was the one who was put in charge of the treasury and he was stealing money from it. John 12:6 tells us that he was stealing out of the treasury of the disciples. He was stealing out of the money bag.

Thank you Chris.

Thanks Rick, I appreciate your explanation here and the old saying at the end. I agree with it, but my thought expressed here are more for those who are reading these posts who are forming their beliefs about these matters than for the poster who speaks error, because you are right, there likely will not be a change of mind on is part.

Dear Earl

Thank you for sharing this information. It will help me to understand your point of view better. I do think that these tenets that you have adopted are at variance with most Christian belief.

From your post, I gather that you are older than I am by 10 or more years. You may be closer to entering eternity than I am, but we both are looking forward to what the Lord has in store for us when we leave this life and receive the fullness of our salvation. God Bless.

I look at the 7 years of burning weapons, and it seems to fit best with the 7 years of the tribulation. So I wonder if this war happens right before the tribulation. John might have been describing modern weapons in the vocabulary of his day. Certainly no ancient weapons would burn for 7 years to provide fuel for the nation. Israel's stunning victory could lead to a treaty which allows the Jews to build their temple, from which the two witnesses preach and which is defiled at the midpoint.

Yes you are right

Our preamble to the constitution

Is what defines us the peopl

This is our country

We are the masters

And all elected officials are our public servants from president own down

We the people are 325 million people

Yes we have to take back control

Our constitution says that when Washington DC

Try's to become socialized

Dictators or ever what you want to all them

We the people militia etc not only have the right but duty to remove them from office

I am not talking about bloodshed

That is the last thing we Christians

Would want

Remove them peacefully

We have the tight to peacefully assemble

And redress our greviences

Some would say our military would obey government and shot we the

People

I say that would not

The military would not because they are there to protect the people not Washington DC

Asking the military to fire on us

Would require they shots their mothers

Fathers

Brothers

Sisters

Spouses

Children

Not a chance

That would only happen in a communist markist

Dictator country

That is not who we are

We can do it without bloodshed

God bless America

We do need to return to God

The most important thing we have to do

God never blessed a country

That rejects him

Carmela Absolutely not I know many a christian who's Job including my daughters works on sunday

and if this is challenged look at Colossians 2:13-18 we are judged by the word and Jesus Christ put

an end to the old law, that meaning we worship God twenty four seven in our walk bu the spirit

and fellowship or get together with other believers when we can. The sabbath was made for man not

man for the sabbath, a man we all consider Kings of Kings said that.

Hi Chris The concept falling to my knees almost in fear I don't see scripturally, how can we come boldly

to the throne grace to find help in time of need if I'm terrified of my Father. Now I have absolutely respect

and awe for His working for me in me and around me, but he's the Father I never had.

Abraham was Gods

friend and talked with him Moses was that close David was that close, these were children by adoption not

by seed and they had respect and awe made mistakes but knew God would take care of them overlooking

there weaknesses we are in a greater position than they we are His Children. He's lovingly corrected me

a thousand times that is my respect and awe because he's working in me to do His good will and pleasure.

That is my scriptural view point.

Hi Chris This is not taking sides but its interesting how translations keep changing things in the Word little by little

by little, but if it all means the same thing why are they changing the word little by little because its[acceptable].

I',m thankful that when Jesus Christ was confronted by satan and satan used Gods Words out of context Jesus

Stand and Reply was It Is Written in the right context. Thank God This is just an example not that were discussing

context usage just changing scripture a little. I'll go with devils demons sounds to nice.

Earl, You should not teach that there is no hell. Jesus taught more on hell than anyone else in the Bible. Which means it's important. Rather than cause someone seeking salvation, or a baby Christian__that there is no hell. You should just keep that theory to yourself.

There is a severe penalty that you may not want to pay.

REVELATION 22

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall TAKE AWAY his part OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and OUT OF THE HOLY CITY, and from the things which are written in this book.

MISHAEL: This is pretty clear: no adding and no subtracting.

You are a gifted teacher except for this one thing that can get your name REMOVED from the book of life, by God. His son is the WORD OF GOD!!

I had a Pastor of a huge Church in Tulsa. He was Anointed. Because of circumstances, he lost his Church. Oral Roberts rebuked him as did others. He lost friends. IT HAPPENED BECAUSE HE DECIDED THERE WAS NO HELL.

if you want proof, go on YouTube and see what Carlton Pearson teaches now. He's old and gray now. He shows old videos of himself to keep people close that still miss the anointed music.

What are your reasons? I think Carlton feared that relatives who smoked or drank beer; were going to hell. He had a "holiness background".

If we are not clinging to Jesus, the Word of God, we are in danger of hell too.

CHOOSE ETERNAL LIFE, OR CHOOSE ETERNITY IN HELL.

Was Adam and Eve the only people God created?

Chris I read your reply concerning what I shared about demons and devils and am well aware of translations

and changes, it is another watering down of the word. I've read your comments and understand your background

which to a degree is like mine. That being said this wasn't personal and I know what is accepted, if I'd go with

what is now accepted wow. That being said Kingpin is known as the Devil his generals and captains and so forth

are called devils. A little detail devil. evil with a d can't go that with demon, and the enemy likes a little change

sorta like thou shalt surely die and thou shalt not surely die. Just one little word, I've seen where in translation

one little word changed everything, so I have shared my point. To me this is over God Bless

Jesse is right

For we all have sinned and come short of the glory of god

And recognizing that and asking for forgiveness

We repent of our sins

And from gods grace and mercy and faith

He is just to forgive

And gives us the holy sprit and from that moment we are reborn into the heaven of god the father god the son and god the Holy Spirit

We have a new Conscience

Judas said he betrayed an innocent man

And repented

I only use the kink James version

Not the new king James or any other

Because they change words an words change meaning

A. Is different than the

Kjv says for the love of money is the root of all evil

Even new kjv version uses a

Our Sunday school teachers wife said it was just semantics

Then I thought about it

And said well let's change this verse to an A.

Jesus said I am the way the life and the truth and no one comes to my father except thru me

Change that to and A then Jesus becomes irrelevant

Everyone one is trying to change repent to remorse

Think about it

If Judah at that time had remorse

Do you think satan would have any remorse

I don't think so

The field judas hanged himself in

Was purchased by iniquity not money

Judas split open after hanging from the tree how long was he there

The physical body starts decomposing fast

The veil of the temple also split when Jesus died on the cross

Meaning Jesus is now the. Perpetuation of our sins and intercedes for us thru god

Jeremiah chapter 31 and verse 34 says

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, no the Lord for they shall all know me from the least of them to the greatest of them say that the Lord for I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more

So I feel that Jesus and know that Jesus gave his life for all of us and is unlimited and his ability to love and to save

And that also applies to Judas.

Can I absolutely say that Judas was forgiven and went to heaven

No I cannot